Magistrate cases

[Blue Star]

Title: Permanent closing of thread after verdict for magistrate cases
   
Summary: After the votes are in and tallied and the verdict is there for all to see, simply close the thread again after verdict is there. Do not re-open the thread for people to respond/comment/bicker. Nothing good comes from it as we have seen. The issue should be closed after the verdict and if it's liked or not people should not be given the chance to respond to such, they can chat on irc or whatever, but not on the thread.

Details: Once verdict is in from the magistrates and those parties who cast their rights to vote, the verdict is the last response for that particular case/thread. Once closed no other response are made and the verdict is the very last post.

Possible Exploits: Players possible commenting on the case somewhere else. However, it does not make the verdict get lost in the ramblings or bickering of others.

I bring this up because a case was opened after the verdict. From what I saw and the leading thread after nothing good came from it or anything that was worth mentioning. Let people dive into it and chatter about it should not be in the same thread with the verdict. It disrupts potting the issue to a end. Criticism regarding the verdict can be better addressed in a different thread. Suggestion BM Discussion or Questions & Answers.

Thread referring to:
http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,4420.45.html

Note* Odd how the thread mentioned is the only thread with a verdict that was left open for players to comment and disturbingly enough it did not lead to anything productive rather negative from my opinion. No other thread is left open after the verdict is given at least to my knowledge.

[Penchant]

I could be wrong, but I am rather sure every case receives time for people to ask mainly, but also comment about the verdict. I do think if verdict is not clearly visible when viewing the last post of the thread the verdict should be reposted at the end of the thread. A case of it still being visible but not the last post is if there are one or two short posts after the verdict.

[Tom]

There is a reason why cases are kept open for a short time after the verdict. It is explained here:

http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,819.0.html

[Blue Star]

Tom,

http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,4430.0.html

mm after verdict another unproductive conversation going on after the verdict. I see you commented yourself. It's easier to keep it closed than to allow more bickering/arguments from happening. Once the verdict is in that is it. Let them not dispute or bicker in something that is come to a conclusion. It shows ill will toward the players involved and it doesn't particularly have any beneficial parts to it.

Exploits of leaving it open after verdict: Bickering and disputing over the topic to no end until it is closed. Further continuation of the topic after it is concluded.


Please close it. Verdict is in that it. if they want to appeal then like it says in the link you posted let them appeal to you to reopen or to the magistrate team. Once the verdict is in let them discuss the issue through other avenue not the forum.

[egamma]

Perhaps the magistrate posting the verdict could suggest that any questions be placed in the questions board?

[Eirikr]

Tom,

http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,4430.0.html

mm after verdict another unproductive conversation going on after the verdict. I see you commented yourself. It's easier to keep it closed than to allow more bickering/arguments from happening. Once the verdict is in that is it. Let them not dispute or bicker in something that is come to a conclusion. It shows ill will toward the players involved and it doesn't particularly have any beneficial parts to it.

Exploits of leaving it open after verdict: Bickering and disputing over the topic to no end until it is closed. Further continuation of the topic after it is concluded.


Please close it. Verdict is in that it. if they want to appeal then like it says in the link you posted let them appeal to you to reopen or to the magistrate team. Once the verdict is in let them discuss the issue through other avenue not the forum.

However, without that discussion (which had poor though processes on both sides), I would have opened another Magistrates case. While I don't believe "lawyering" would have been necessary (it was very clear cut), a second case may have been damaging to Jason just upon principle. It may have been the proverbial straw to break the camel's back. And most importantly, the beginning of that exchange included a legitimate question on the verdict.

Edited for clarity and a fine tuning of my point.

[Penchant]

Tom,

http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,4430.0.html

mm after verdict another unproductive conversation going on after the verdict. I see you commented yourself. It's easier to keep it closed than to allow more bickering/arguments from happening. Once the verdict is in that is it. Let them not dispute or bicker in something that is come to a conclusion. It shows ill will toward the players involved and it doesn't particularly have any beneficial parts to it.

Exploits of leaving it open after verdict: Bickering and disputing over the topic to no end until it is closed. Further continuation of the topic after it is concluded.


Please close it. Verdict is in that it. if they want to appeal then like it says in the link you posted let them appeal to you to reopen or to the magistrate team. Once the verdict is in let them discuss the issue through other avenue not the forum.

That was conversation was productive and had a lack of bickering or ill will. None of the participants were asking for an appeal, also. And the forum is the place to discuss the issue.

[Blue Star]

However, without that discussion (which had poor though processes on both sides), I would have opened another Magistrates case. While I don't believe "lawyering" would have been necessary (it was very clear cut), a second case may have been damaging to Jason just upon principle. It may have been the proverbial straw to break the camel's back. And most importantly, the beginning of that exchange included a legitimate question on the verdict.

Edited for clarity and a fine tuning of my point.

While you have your opinion I believe the other side did not see it as such, which would explain the exchange that occurred that was more or less did not need to occur.

Question & Answers is there for a reason, why not use it? Yes, the forum is the place to discuss the issue, but put it in Question board not in the same as the cases. After the verdict what good is it commenting as such has been done?

I don't believe Eirikr had any ill will toward Jason, but it can be interpreted differently concerning your opinions and beliefs and stance on the matter. Referencing Eirkir above (bolded), those such comments can be referred to the magistrates via private message. Not posted after the verdict.

The Verdict is enough is it not? If the parties are satisfied or unsatisfied, then it is what it is. Questions, comments, and discussion can happen in the question board. Separate board are there for a reason, I say let's use them.

[Eirikr]

While you have your opinion I believe the other side did not see it as such, which would explain the exchange that occurred that was more or less did not need to occur.

Question & Answers is there for a reason, why not use it? Yes, the forum is the place to discuss the issue, but put it in Question board not in the same as the cases. After the verdict what good is it commenting as such has been done?

I don't believe Eirikr had any ill will toward Jason, but it can be interpreted differently concerning your opinions and beliefs and stance on the matter. Referencing Eirkir above (bolded), those such comments can be referred to the magistrates via private message. Not posted after the verdict.

The Verdict is enough is it not? If the parties are satisfied or unsatisfied, then it is what it is. Questions, comments, and discussion can happen in the question board. Separate board are there for a reason, I say let's use them.

For my own understanding, what do you believe to be a matter of perspective? The assertion that the case was clear cut or the belief that the discussion that occurred was productive?

As far as the case goes, it really was clear cut: The only evidence is that letter (and whatever the Magistrates dug up in their inquiry) and his testimonial. It's very clear why the letter was in bad taste, the disagreement comes at the point of whether it was intentional or accidental... In which case, it's not my place to try to prove one or the other unless I really am trying to bury him.

Now, as for the actual discussion that unfolded, I'm forced to consider the alternative when determining if it was productive or not. What you don't know is that, prior to the verdict being posted, I had talked to both Indirik and Geronus about the topic at hand. I don't want to speak for them, but what I will say is that I felt that if the issue hadn't been part of the verdict, a new case would be the right method of resolving the matter. (Again, let me be very careful in saying that neither Indirik nor Geronus explicitly told me that I should make a case. I reached that conclusion myself.) If we take the path you are suggesting, I would never have spoken to Jason before opening the case. The case would have been up right now. The point that I was trying to stress in the section you highlighted was that, from the sound of his posts, Jason would have felt persecuted, regardless of the findings.

In my mind, it's hard to argue that the discussion, which prevented a second, stress-causing (for Jason), case was not productive. Maybe the tone could have been nicer, sure, but that's not what your suggestion would change.

I can see other ways to interpret what you've presented in this most recent post, so forgive me if I just ran along a completely incorrect tangent. I'm a technical communicator by trade, so I'm pretty dedicated to reaching clarity at some point. :) I just want to understand where we're each coming from.

[Eirikr]

I just re-read the original feature request and would like to pull something else out specifically:

However, it does not make the verdict get lost in the ramblings or bickering of others.

If this, right here, is the goal, I'm fully in support. Really, this is a brilliant point. It makes a great deal of sense to me to have the verdict easily located without having to sift through other posts. A dedicated Q&A or Discussion thread in the Q&A subforum would ensure the last thing in the case is the verdict, and copying the verdict into the first post would make it very, very easy to find out how the case ended.

Since my primary disagreement thus far has been that the discussion itself being public and not private messages to the Magistrates, I don't see a conflict with my previous statements, either.

[Indirik]

The Magistrates used to repost the verdict when locking a thread, to ensure that the verdict was the final post in the thread. This is a good practice that should be revived/continued.