New Player Retention - how do we engage their interest?

[Gustav Kuriga]

Doesn't pass a fact check. We had no noticeable drop in player numbers when the war islands were closed.

Not immediately after, but it did seem that the game has been in decline since then.

[pcw27]

Positions are not the answer. We had better player retention back when realms were full of people and getting even a simple lordship was years in the future for most new players.

I don't think that disproves the value of new positions for player retention. I'm sure going years without any noticeable advancement makes plenty of players leave. I highly doubt we saw a drop in players when the steward position was created.

We've talked a lot about estate customization over the years. I think that's in the same category. If you have two years of nothing before lucking out and getting a lordship things get boring. What's happens is players have left resulting in lordships being handed out like hotcakes, which is also boring because there's no sense of accomplishment. Intermediate achievements can give players a real incentive by making them feel they've earned something and that they're working their way up the ranks.

[Dishman]

I think the best way to retain new players is giving them some tasks with no clear end-goal. Something like "buddy up with this guy, I have plans to ruin him and I need a guy on the inside". Subterfuge is interesting, ongoing, and the amount of involvement is at the whim of the player. It might fade with time, but at least you get a chance to 'set the hook' so to speak.

I think what also works is brief explanations of the realm. The amount of history in a realm would probably shock some casual players who just made an account. I'm not saying exceed the character limit on letters, but just a quick rundown of "this great kingdom was established x seasons ago by x event, warred with these x ruffians, and have a fondness for x cultural icon.". Don't make players scour through the wiki and forums to taste the culture of the realm, sometimes babes need to be spoonfed the good stuff.

[Tom]

The key is not to give new players something specific (like a lordship). The key is to give them SOMETHING, specifically, something to do.

Frankly, if I were to join a game where it's about sitting around and doing region maintenance, I'd leave very quickly, too.


So really, we are at the same point we've been circling around for two years now: This game needs war. Lots of war. And I'm about at the point where I'd like to point a gun to every old established character who thinks his main job is to keep the status quo and tell him: "2 weeks and your realm is in a major war, or you'll get the axe. To the head."

Seriously, these people don't get that they destroy the game.

[pcw27]

I don't really see a lack of war. I see wars on all of the continents I play on. A war without context can be just as dull as peacetime.

I think what makes things boring is as much on the ducal level as the realm level. Every duke should be plotting to ascend to the level of king. That dynamic is what makes a war interesting. Instead of "everyone's bored lets start a war with realm x", I'd rather something along the lines of "well if we remain at peace with realm x duke A might secede, but then again duke B might take the war as an opportunity to secede as well, however we could keep him satisfied if we also start a war with realm Z who's allied with realm X and borders duchy B thus giving him new lands. Then again those lands might give him the opportunity to not only secede but conquer the rest of the realms so we'd better make sure duke A gets plenty of territory from realm x to balance it out seeing as duke A and B have hated each other for years."

I think it will do some good if the higher tier players get a lesson in how to roleplay.

[Tom]

I'll leave the interpretations to you:

[Revan]

I'm about at the point where I'd like to point a gun to every old established character who thinks his main job is to keep the status quo and tell him: "2 weeks and your realm is in a major war, or you'll get the axe. To the head."

Haha, now there's an interesting idea! Let's make one Island a 'Titan Island' where the gods interfere mercilessly with the goings on of us mere mortals. That should shake things up a bit!  :-P

[Indirik]

I'll leave the interpretations to you:

Mark Twain would have loved you, Tom.

If an island has 20 realms, and each realm is at war with one other realm, that means that of the possible 171 diplomatic relationships, there are only 40 wars, or ~23%. So despite the fact that every realm is engaged in an exciting and engaging war for their very existence, your graph would show that the island was overwhelmingly at peace.

I'm not saying that you're wrong about the game needing more war. In fact, I'm pretty sure you're correct. Just... well, you know what they say about statistics...

[Anaris]

Well, this makes me glad that all three of my characters are in the "war" sections of those pies ;D

First off, Tom, it would be helpful if you'd explain just what the graphs actually represent. It seems to me that, as Indirik suggests, they are actually the proportions of diplomatic relations at each status. With this being the case, I'd say that the Far East's graph is pretty close to the ideal: the FEI is currently embroiled in a continent-wide war, with every single realm involved in one way or another. So you can look at the other graphs as they relate to that one.

For the other continents, the only ones I can speak for are BT and Dwilight, as that's where my other 2 characters are. BT just finished a major war in the north, and Dwilight is still winding down from its first continent-wide conflict. I'm not at all sure that putting a gun to rulers' heads there and saying, "Make war," is going to do what you want, mainly because they're not really opposing war, just continuing to tidy up from the last one.

Our main problem in the game is not, I don't think, akin to the time of the Long Peace on the EC.

[Wolfang]

Anaris, didnt you develop a way of measuring war-levels of different realms and continents?
Maybe you could post some of those statistics if it is public information?

[Sacha]

Wouldn't it be easier to just show the % of realms involved in war? As Anaris said, every realm on FEI is at war, and battles often involve two or three realms on either side, yet the graph suggests only a third is at war.

So in FEI, 8 out of 8 realms, 100% are at war
On Dwilight, 9 out of 13 realms, (not including dead realms and the Zuma), 70% are at war
On BT, 6 out of 10 realms, 60% are at war, with some of the peaceful ones having wrapped up a war recently

[Tom]

I'm not saying that you're wrong about the game needing more war. In fact, I'm pretty sure you're correct. Just... well, you know what they say about statistics...

I never said 100% war is the desireable state. I could run other statistics, like the number of wars a realm is involved in, or the number of realms having no war, etc. - but if you go into too much detail, then things like "is this actually a war actively being fought?" really matter, and they don't matter as much with the big-picture view I posted.


It really is just to give you an idea. And I think it illustrates beautifully that the vast majority of diplomatic relations are not war. Everyone has more friends then enemies.

[Tom]

First off, Tom, it would be helpful if you'd explain just what the graphs actually represent.

diplomatic relations between realms, grouped up so it doesn't count federation, alliance and peace seperately, but as "peaceful". Same for hatred and war.

it really is just a 10,000 feet picture. It shows that peace is the dominating relation between realms. Heck, half of continents have more federations and alliances then wars.

[Lorgan]

The problem is not the amount of war but the frequency in battles and other war-related activities.

[Anaris]

It really is just to give you an idea. And I think it illustrates beautifully that the vast majority of diplomatic relations are not war. Everyone has more friends then enemies.

That's almost always going to be true.

The only realms that have more enemies than friends are a) gigantic behemoths that can take on most of the continent by themselves and win (which, I would say, is an undesirable type of realm to have around, from a game-fun perspective), and b) realms that are likely to be dead soon.

So...yeah, no one's going to try to have more enemies than friends. That's just dumb. Thus, I'm not sure what point you were intending to make here.