improving the game via prison

[Arrandal]

Being wounded also prevents you from playing—much more so than prison does, in fact. Do you consider wounding to be akin to a forum ban? Do you think we should remove it from the game?

Prison is a part of the game. It has been since the beginning of the game. There is nothing about prison that has changed to make more people leave the game. There have always been a few people who think that being in prison for a week is the worst thing EVAR, and there always will be, but that doesn't mean it's actually a detriment to the game as a whole.

Furthermore, this change—making sure that new players can't be put in prison for longer than a few days—should significantly help in making sure that new players aren't kept from the game, and thus increase their enjoyment.

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Your missing my point. 7 days is livable, and barely so. Its the social contract I signed up on, so I have to stick to it. I dont like them, I dont like the wounding either, some of our players are wounded and never log in again, is that a fact? I dont know, so see example below and judge for yourself. (as marshal I have to keep an eye on all the players in the realm, its just part of the job, so Im seeing a lot of data, and I wouldnt discount the fact that things like this are a game player killer. But I havent actually said 'all' people Anaris, I was just talking about me, and what I would do as a player. Take the input into consideration or not, thats your choice, and not mine to make, but dont lump me in with the 'always crowd' either. I'm a very sane and matter of fact player. But I was asked an opinion and so Im giving it. and I am giving it from a personal 'what I would do'. Others, ie Tom, are going to have to read into that whether others would do the same, or not. I would consider it very strongly if I was him, but also, I am not him, and this is his game to do what he wills with, and I can leave if ultimately I do not like it. Thats my choice, and I fully understand and respect that. But it is sad that I have the potential to get punished just because  'Old Geezers' need to be disrespected and punished.

Although, can I say, my partner is an 'old geezer' and I cant tell you how much of a fan he is of Tom's. To the point that all through the beginning, and even now, when I post in forums, I have to run a lot of it past him to make sure Im not breaking any of the rules. So Im getting angry that my partner always feels he cant say how he feels, because he's one of those 'old geezers'. And I cant say how I feel, because he wants Tom to like me. Hi Tom, hope you like me! Anyway, he loves this game to death, is so active, and so involved, and so good for new players. So maybe Tom needs to step back and appreciate his players a bit more too? Or figure out a different way to handle the pain in the arse players, that seem to attract to games like trolls just so they can just be trolls, and stop punishing those players that arent. I know its hard to do, but its really off putting to see the disrespect dished out by a game owner to players that have supported his game year in, and year out. Point of fact, the trolls have supported him too, year in and year out, who's not to say, that they shouldnt get to live on their rewards? I mean, what is ones definition of a troll? A personality you don't like... rather personal isnt it? So only people that are likeable can play? Everyones an ass, sometime, or even all the time, but their still around, making the game work, it's the others that have left, how much loyalty should Tom be displaying to those players who don't stick around? As opposed to his 'old geezers'?

You can bash away at me, because your personally invested in the game, so is my husband, and I can understand you might see this as a negative. I'm tough though, and been around forums/games long enough to not care about the backlash when stating my piece, because, no matter how you write it, someone, somewhere is going to get pissy about it. But just so you know, your backlashing on me, because I have a strong opinion about the game, and as a Dev, that is also unattractive, even if you are a volunteer. I can still respect the hell out of the personal time you put into the game, and some of your forum comments and game comments are extremely relevant and level headed, but I dont have to respect how you speak to people, you don't like or agree with. And  I don't. 

Anyway, long post to say stuff, guess its been sitting inside a while.
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Example:  have another Lord right now in our army hasnt logged in since his wounding. He was the new Judge of our Realm, his first time in office, hadnt even got a chance to play it yet, and yet, instead of coming back to pick that up, he decided not to come back. Why is that? No one can say 100% that people dont leave because of this feature. Unless you ring them up and ask them, you cant know. And I never even claimed that they did.

[Dishman]

Absolutely no free academy in prison. Infiltrators would line up to be imprisoned by their own judge so they can train for free.

And please don't do the usual that is done with every freaking idea on this board: Add six millions other crap to it, until the whole thing is so heavy that it sinks. If you want to make prison more interesting, that's a totally different topic, go and open a seperate thread or think it through and make a feature request.

I agree that skill gains in prison could be potentially game breaking, hence why I suggested soft skills that typically don't have big impact. Do people seriously spend gold training oratory and trade?

As to adding ideas, I understand hijacking threads with additional ideas isn't helping the thread...but when you have a discussion about 'improving the game via prison', it is a bit open ended and making prison more interesting doesn't sound unrelated. Anyhow, sometimes it takes group brainstorming in related threads to actually have the idea for the other feature.

Perhaps if we added a system where judges could pay the ransom for nobles of their realm, it would be less devastating.

This sounds like it would make it interesting. I'm not sure if anyone would ever pay it, as characters are fairly easy to replace with someone waiting in line. Might make nepotism more important, which creates stronger bonds between characters.

[Anaris]

I agree that skill gains in prison could be potentially game breaking, hence why I suggested soft skills that typically don't have big impact. Do people seriously spend gold training oratory and trade?

Oratory is what powers priests and diplomats.

Think about what they can do to you.

[Buffalkill]

Absolutely no free academy in prison. Infiltrators would line up to be imprisoned by their own judge so they can train for free.

And please don't do the usual that is done with every freaking idea on this board: Add six millions other crap to it, until the whole thing is so heavy that it sinks. If you want to make prison more interesting, that's a totally different topic, go and open a seperate thread or think it through and make a feature request.

Two points: 1. It might happen, but it would be an abuse of power and if the judge routinely abuses his power the ruler can remove him from his position and other nobles would get pissed off. 2. Nobody said it had to be free. There shouldn't be any unfair advantage. At best it should be a significant trade-off to spend time behind bars. You lose contact with the outside world, if you're gone long enough you might lose any titles or positions you hold, the judge can take your gold, if you spend a lot of time in jail you should lose prestige (you are, after all, an ex-con). 3. You said yourself that prison is boring. Your ideas might well create interesting IG dynamics, but they do nothing for the player who is actually in prison. (I know that's 3 things, so shoot me!  :) )

[Anaris]

if the judge routinely abuses his power the ruler can remove him from his position

No, he can't.

Once someone holds a government position, the ruler can't just kick them out of office. They'd have to be protested out.

[feyeleanor]

This only makes sense if there are more things to do in prison, and if there were then new players would probably not be so fussed at having their characters banged up.

[Buffalkill]

Once someone holds a government position, the ruler can't just kick them out of office. They'd have to be protested out.

Great, so there is some form of recourse.

[Indirik]

Or the ruler can make the position elected, and the realm can vote him out.

[Eirikr]

Just think of what would happen inf your 15-person realm got into war, and their top 5 people (all councilors and he duke) got captured in a battle.

And here I thought you didn't have a character in the Barony of Makar! (We're down to 13.)

[Jaden]

I am not sure about the length of time though, a max of two weeks is more than enough to drive people crazy. And the semi-random nature of being captured in battle is going to make people feel like they are being shafted by the game.
But I am all for the early release of new players.

[Vita`]

People do realize how cheap ransoms get after 7 days, right? All this concern of being held in prison for 40 days is rather moot if you can pay your way out with about 10 gold on days 5-7. Now if there was a suggestion to decrease the rate ransoms decrease, I'd understand the concerns, but if you're still in prison on day 20 with this change, its either because the judge stole your gold, you had no gold to start with, or you *like* prison.

[Buffalkill]

Just think of what would happen inf your 15-person realm got into war, and their top 5 people (all councilors and he duke) got captured in a battle.

Then they would still have more nobles than Lyonesse.

[Jaden]

I'd understand the concerns, but if you're still in prison on day 20 with this change, its either because the judge stole your gold, you had no gold to start with, or you *like* prison.

Forgot about the decreasing ransom, and dont forget you can pay with family gold too. So unless you really like prison......
Then wouldnt the change be pointless if there is no change in ransoms?

[Tom]

People do realize how cheap ransoms get after 7 days, right?

That would change.

But ransom is the answer to the "booh, 40 days is eternity" crowd.

Yes, 40 days is eternity. That's the whole point. The idea is that this massive amount of time forces you to actually pay the ransom, or find some other way to get out early. And since it only happens to really important people, you should expect your realm to bail you out. And if they don't - well, that's a message, isn't it?

[Ketchum]

Regarding Tom proposal, I think simple nobles with no position: 1 day will be nice. At present, the new noble who got into war(due to his close proximity to the battle frontline) and having no position and no estate in the realm, it can be frustrating moment for them. As we have experienced Prison feature before, a lot of functions are taken away.

Speaking from my numerous Mentorship, new players will find themselves lacking any guidance. This is why I informed player of SaDiablo to release my realm new player as soon as he can. The same thing when his realm new player landed in my realm prison, I try to release as soon as I see it. But as Judge, I notice a problem. Unless we take some effort to go and view the particular character family and see she playing since what date, we will not be able to know if the player is new or not. How about name it as "Newbie Protection" similar like how you cannot choose Hero and go get your first death in your character family as soon as you signed up?

P/S: I just love the Mentor feature so much. I used to train a new player who is religionless in game and like to hug and pray to tree. Which undoubtedly I found it funny as my priestess character tried to convert him but failed spectacularly. An upgrade to Mentor will be a much helpful guidance to new players as well.