hero-replace

[mikm]

Im a bit anoyied about this hero class.Lots of limitations and not many advantages.All this for the sake of making death in battle a voluntary action.
How about this.Check box where you have to chose between the join troops in batle and stand back option.
If you chose to stay back you have absolutly no risks.You can not get captured wounded or killed during battle.However you get no no honor or prestiges for the battle and your troops will not perform as well as they could.
If you decide to join battle you gain honor,prestige and improve your troops performance at the risk of geting captured,wounded or killed.

You can switch between the two options at any time before a battle and thus decide when to risk it or not.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

That would make the hero pretty much the class to be then if they had an option for an absolutely risk-free battle, while no one else does.

Look, each class has its perks and fails. For example, if you want a small, fast raiding force, you really wouldn't want to play a cavalier. If you don't like dying, then probably hero isn't your first choice. The statistics page shows clearly that Hero is the second most prevalent subclass, second to (none). This may partially be due to the fact that you can't get out of that subclass. But if people really didn't like it, they now have the option quite easily to pause or delete the character.

A closer look at some large realms would also give an idea about people's views on heroes. How many active heroes are in the realm? My estimate would be that they constitute the largest subclass other than (none) in most large realms of 50+ nobles.

But more to the point of the hero change: The penalty to unit performance would have to be rather severe otherwise I can imagine that almost no hero would choose to risk capture, wounds, or death, for completely reasonable and intelligent practical reasons. Obviously you wouldn't risk your ability to lead your unit if the incentive against doing so wasn't strong enough. And in terms of H/P, a hero needs 10 P to get the class, and a Warrior mainclass with 10 H can still field around 30 non-cavalry, non-SF. Of course, it is virtually impossible that a hero would have 10 H, so a conservative estimate would put around 50 non-cavalry, non-SF. It's not really a big deal to gain no H/P, since most people can't support anything larger than 50 high quality men anyway.

Also, the benefits are pretty good, and the risk, as long as you are good at estimating your chances, aren't so bad. Fielding archers with minimal retreat is a good conservative strategy. Heck, I made it through 4th Inv as a hero fighting against monsters, and I was there when the mortality code was still berserk.

Think about it: Escape from prison option every turn, telling tales to improve loyalty and morale, even picking up volunteers in some regions. Resting your troops also gets more effective (possibly. It gives a different flavor text at least). Those are some pretty good perks for a rather small price of death. And locking your subclass, but eh, not sure why that would make too much difference unless you want that character to one day start writing treaties or something. In that case...plan ahead.

[vonGenf]

I think the OP was proposing that this checkbox appears for every subclass, not just Heroes.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I want to play a killable trader.

[mikm]

It's like this.Before each battle you can decide whther you want to participate in it asuming some risks or not using the checkbox.Participating gives a good advantage in morale and cs bonus.Of course if you're hoplesly outnumbered that won't mater.
Hero could become kind of a title you gain later on in the game oance you have acumulated a lot of honor and prestiege.The title can coeexist with absolutly class or subclas and you would gain all the advantages our curent hero has like escape from prison option every turn, telling tales to improve loyalty and morale, even picking up volunteers in some regions.
It would no longer be  a class but a title you instatly get when you have the right status.Wheter you get the status  through battle or ther means it is up to you.

[cjnodell]

I also like the idea but I do not like the penalties/rewards suggested. I think that if one "Hangs Back" they should function exactly as nobles do currently. They gain honor, prestige, possibly skill and can be wounded. If a character "Fights the Battle" I would rather see a slight increases in unit CS, increase in unit morale and cohesion, increased chance of skill gain, wounding and the possibility of death.

The simple fact, in my opinion, is that honor and prestige is gained by impressing fellow nobles, not by impressing the rabble that fights your battles. Perhaps a third stat "popularity" could track how much commoners like you and this stat could be increased by "Fighting the Battle." "Popularity" would steadily degrade so one must do something to maintain it. High "popularity" could result in free recruits, the opportunity to boost region stats with your presence, potentialy influence who peasents instill when they overthrow a region lord and much more.

To keep it simple, leave the whole popularity thing out! All the same, I really like the idea of any character being able to fight in the front with potential benefits. Heck, I like the idea even if there were no benefits to be had!

[songqu88@gmail.com]

That sounds like a better idea than allowing for what essentially amounts to a risk-free style. Some bonus for risking mortality, both in the long-term and short-term, would allow for some incentive to choose mortality, while allowing those who don't like the idea to stay away. Hm, but that's what a hero is... And right now, you can't play a mortal cavalier unless you get banned somewhere first (In which case you sure as heck ain't a cavalier) or duel to the death (Well, at least you died as a true cavalier...I guess).

[Nosferatus]

The only real anoying disadvantage of heros is not beeing able to do police work.
That's the only thing that should change, if any.

[vonGenf]

The only real anoying disadvantage of heros is not beeing able to do police work.
That's the only thing that should change, if any.

Conversely, the main advantage of heroes is deniable plausability when someone tries to order you to do boring police work.  ;D