Religion

[Indirik]

for me, that was funny. sirion had multitude of ways how to finish off fontan, and those religious takeovers were completely irrelevant in strategic way, i could even say that they somewhat added to roleplaying feel. on contrary, once rto's were crippled, we only saw "go to region a, take her - than go to region b and take her as well" mood which is everything but funny.

I don't recall any specific instance of RTO ability being nerfed. Not that it didn't happen, but I just can't recall any specific changes that would have caused that. Do you remember any details about what the change was?

[De-Legro]

Regarding taxing Religions at individual levels. At first I was interested in the idea. However if it is at the realm level, all it becomes is another tool to promote national religions by taxing all others at max level. Again an interesting mechanic, but one that requires a shift in player mentality first.

[Buck]

It would be cool if:

• If Priests could affect the moral or loyalty of a faithful region.
  
• If Priests could help/try to heal injured believers.
  
• If Priests could bless religous nobles and affect the cohesion or moral of the unit.
  
  

[Anaris]

It would be cool if:

• If Priests could affect the moral or loyalty of a faithful region.

They can; in fact, it's long been one of their major features.

• If Priests could help/try to heal injured believers.

D&D is that way. --->

• If Priests could bless religous nobles and affect the cohesion or moral of the unit.
  
  

That's the Visit Temples option.

[Ketchum]

I don't recall any specific instance of RTO ability being nerfed. Not that it didn't happen, but I just can't recall any specific changes that would have caused that. Do you remember any details about what the change was?

I remember RTO was bugged at one time, when my priestess RTO a region on Colonies until I opened a bug report on it. Since then, I had not conducted any RTO until that priest Innocent attempted to RTO Vir el Mari Height from Lukon during the war that another RTO bug happened. Could not remember if another bug report opened on that one incident.

It would be cool if:

• If Priests could affect the moral or loyalty of a faithful region.
  
• If Priests could help/try to heal injured believers.
  
• If Priests could bless religous nobles and affect the cohesion or moral of the unit.
  
  

This is already being done, part of priests features already. Try train your priest skills higher and you will see the effects/more options available. Shhh, I really should not spoil the surprise

[Daycryn]

That's the Visit Temples option.

But that's not an option for the priest characters to actively do; i.e. if they could travel (with crusading armies) and just be doing that, giving them a purpose to being there.

As it stands it's just a really generic morale option and seems to have no relation to the character's religion or whether there's a temple of that religion there in the first place. Since it predated the religion game it's understandably not well integrated, and as I said doesn't really help the players of priests.

[Stue (DC)]

I don't recall any specific instance of RTO ability being nerfed. Not that it didn't happen, but I just can't recall any specific changes that would have caused that. Do you remember any details about what the change was?

you are right, it is me who did not express what I thought in enough details.

i also believe that rto did not change formally, but the major influence on rto being almost impossible comes from changes in estate system.

preconditions for rto are 80 of followers, and control on province or lower, currently regions almost never fall on province once they are brought from rogue state. it seems that removing estate coverage effect on control plus removing distance from capital trouble regions are rarely in trouble by themselves.

the other thing is reaching 80% followers. in regions where there are ample facilities of one religion, endless preaching and no any presence of other priests, i very rarely see 80% reached, and even when i see it, it drops back within one-two turns, and cannot be restored in next 6 rl months.

having these two preconditions at a time seems to be only theoretical possibility.

[Stue (DC)]

Regarding taxing Religions at individual levels. At first I was interested in the idea. However if it is at the realm level, all it becomes is another tool to promote national religions by taxing all others at max level. Again an interesting mechanic, but one that requires a shift in player mentality first.

why not? rulers can promote national religions, but dukes or even ordinary lords can make additional effort to oppose it. is it not good opportunity for development of interesting grievances? hostile religions can always be banned, so taxes could be mid-solution that allow more nuances of possible conflicts.

if all agree about single religion, all will promote it with or without taxes. however, if there would be disagreement, mechanics would fuel conflicts.

i always believe more power is good if there is a  chance to oppose such power. on contrary, removing power from most of positions can sterilize conflicts.

[De-Legro]

why not? rulers can promote national religions, but dukes or even ordinary lords can make additional effort to oppose it. is it not good opportunity for development of interesting grievances? hostile religions can always be banned, so taxes could be mid-solution that allow more nuances of possible conflicts.

if all agree about single religion, all will promote it with or without taxes. however, if there would be disagreement, mechanics would fuel conflicts.

i always believe more power is good if there is a  chance to oppose such power. on contrary, removing power from most of positions can sterilize conflicts.

This would entail allowing individual religion taxes at both Duchy and Realm levels and possibly region levels as well. This adds a lot of complication to the tax system that personally I don't think this feature merits. So far the discussions have been about allowing taxation of the Religion at one level only.

If we have multiple levels of religion taxes how will that work? If Region/Duchy and realm all issue 20% tax, does each get applied to the current religion treasury? Does the Realm tax percentage only apply to the religious taxes collected by the Duchy? In the first we can quickly see crippling taxes being an option upon religions unless we apply strict limits to taxation percentage. In the later I think we need to start modifying the database to store extra info about where taxes come from etc, which probably ends the discussion right there.

[Stue (DC)]

If we have multiple levels of religion taxes how will that work?

i was thinking about realm-level taxation of religions, while allowing it to be different for different religions.

[Dishman]

I have to say the religion game is something that I've been impressed with. The priesthood not being dependent on turn change, or military duties, lets you play more lettermaster. It really does work well as a RP heavy class.

[Galvez]

I don't recall any specific instance of RTO ability being nerfed. Not that it didn't happen, but I just can't recall any specific changes that would have caused that. Do you remember any details about what the change was?

It is no longer possible to RTO rogue regions. I believe that was the nerf that was implied after the Sirion-Fontan war.

i was thinking about realm-level taxation of religions, while allowing it to be different for different religions.

I believe that if you decide to tax religions, make it a property-tax based on the size of the temple and the height of the tax rate depended on also the local tax rate. For example, you pay 5 gold for a small temple, and 10 gold for a large temple at a local tax rate of 15%. At 10% you pay less and at 20% you pay more. But the height of the tax you pay is no longer dependent on the amount of gold you have stored in the temple. Temples with empty treasuries still have to pay taxes, and it becomes more interesting to store more gold in the temples treasury, because it is no longer the treasury that is being taxed.

[Chenier]

It is no longer possible to RTO rogue regions. I believe that was the nerf that was implied after the Sirion-Fontan war.

Yea, meaning that in most cases, control is always too high for RTO to work, or control is low enough for so little time that the region revolts before you can get there, preventing you from doing the RTO due to too little control, of sorts. The only way to really be in a region when the control drops and before it revolts, and safely so, is by following your realm's army. But hey, surprise! If you try to do the RTO with your realm's army in the region, your own troops will arrest you and throw you into the ENEMY's dungeon. And that's assuming you had enough followers to begin with, and that the region doesn't revolt the turn after you take it over, since it is probably starving or something for control to be so low.

Yea, RTOs are so OP. /sarcasm