Battlemaster growth cycle

[bluexmas]

I've been an on and off battlemaster player for 3 years now, and have some thoughts I'd like to share about the current state of the game as well as my experiences as a player. As a way of bolstering my credibility about the playing experience I'd like to note that my time has been spent on Dwilight, Atamarra, FEI, and BT, and that at one time, I was the ruler of both Toupellon (aww) and Talerium. I've held every council position and military position, and played every class except for trader, as well as started a new religion. I've been lucky enough to experience a wide array of the politics, battle, frustration, and joy possible in this game.

I love battlemaster as a game and an idea, and have dedicated countless hours to it. One of my breaks from the game came from getting too involved - I bit off more than I could chew when I was ruling two realms at the same time.

I wasn't around for the "good-old-days" that so many posters seem to harken back to, but the times I've played have been plenty good-enough. I suspect that our shrinking player base is actually an opportunity for the game. Wouldn't it make more sense to condense players and characters into fewer environments so that the RPing, battle, and intrigue that we love becomes robust again? Who cares if we lose two continents if the environment drastically improves. I think that would create the kind of robust world that new players would find enjoyable again. Perhaps we need to shrink to start a new cycle of growth. I suspect that like many organizations and institutions BM grew at a slightly unsustainable level; there's no shame in realizing that and taking steps to reframe the game at an appropriate density.

The new player experience, despite years of talking about it, still falls short of being hospitable or engaging. I've encouraged several real life friends to try out BM and none of them has ever stuck around more than a few weeks. What grabbed me about the game immediately when I made my first knight was the sense of being part of something bigger than myself. That gave me both excitement and ambition, because I could see characters that wielded real power in the game and I wanted to prove that I could do that too. In that vein, I loved the old +/- system for knights because I feel it encouraged a Lord to take responsibility as a mentor for knights, and to be able to concretely reward their behavior, service, and loyalty. My mentors set goals for my knights to attain, and then would give me that affirmation when I had completed them. I believe that resizing the game would help to encourage the development of these kinds of personal relationships again, and encourage people into the model of mentor/protege that I think is the best way to build up new players to a level where they can engage the politics and power of Battlemaster. Without people who helped show me the way as a new knight I would never have known that this slow-paced game was worth putting in the time and effort to build lives and legacies for my characters.

Finally, I'd be remiss in writing this without thanking Tom for his long-suffering hard work and effort, and the devs who also put in a huge amount of work to make this game run.

Submitted for the approval of the midnight society...

[Tom]

We've known that we need to cut the game down to size or it'll die for months now. Sadly, progress is crazy slow in big things like this.

[Bhranthan]

We've known that we need to cut the game down to size or it'll die for months now. Sadly, progress is crazy slow in big things like this.

I understand also from Ban's posts that the dev team is working hard on this and nearing completion.
However any kind of updates about all this work would be very very welcome.
We are quite excited/concerned about it.
Or at least i think many of us are.
This will hugely effect/change the game as far as i understand and as you said your self it is important to get it done as quickly as possible, as far as possible.
While this is in progress we shouldnt be left in the dark.
Many of us still have little idea of what is going to change exactly and how.
While you work on it, you could explain it some more.

[Tom]

While you work on it, you could explain it some more.

I agree, but I'm not working on it.

[De-Legro]

Some thoughts about the idea that Battlemaster is dying.

Firstly we need to look at the medium. Think back to when you started playing Battlemaster. Now consider, how many other games that you were playing at the time are you still playing? And just HOW often you play them. In general, no matter how good or how much you enjoyed a game, you are going to move on. People achieve the goals that mattered to them, or simply find other games/hobbies/activities that are more interesting to them.

This is why, while having long term players leave is sad, it is also mostly inevitable. Now people will bring up games like MOO, CIV and others that remain popular, and sure they do. But even those gaming classics have nothing like the popularity they once enjoyed. I fire up my favourite old games for a couple of weeks in a given year. When CIV first came out I played it for 4-6 hours daily for 3 months.

So if you assume that at least some percentage of long term players leaving is unavoidable, you arrive at the next problem - New player retention, The golden days of text based web game is long gone in terms of popularity, the advent and popularity of casual web based games has massively changed peoples expectations for web games in general.

All this doesn't mean we can't improve aspects of the game, nor does it mean the decline couldn't have been less significant then it has been. I do however think the reality is that we are likely never going to see the player numbers we had in the past. I think we can make the game more approachable to those that actually fit the niche, which will help new player retention, however the reality is more then likely that there just isn't a huge pool of new players interested in this style of game.

In terms of retaining old players, it is sometimes a catch 22. Improving the game surely keeps it interesting and can help retain players, but you have to remember that no two people want the same thing from Battlemaster. New feature X might be just what we need to keep one group of players interested, while another group either hate it so much they leave, or they leave because while implementing feature X we did not have time to implement feature Y, which would have been interesting to them.

The game needs to be changed so that it remains viable with fewer players. I would think that we actually need to modify it in such a way that it remains viable should the player base continue to decline so that in 2-3 years we don't run the risk that low player density is significantly detracting from the game for those that remain. We also need to be clever enough with the changes that in the case that numbers do increase, we don't have the opposite issue where higher player density is causing issues.

[Blue Star]

Some thoughts about the idea that Battlemaster is dying.

Firstly we need to look at the medium. Think back to when you started playing Battlemaster. Now consider, how many other games that you were playing at the time are you still playing? And just HOW often you play them. In general, no matter how good or how much you enjoyed a game, you are going to move on. People achieve the goals that mattered to them, or simply find other games/hobbies/activities that are more interesting to them.

This is why, while having long term players leave is sad, it is also mostly inevitable. Now people will bring up games like MOO, CIV and others that remain popular, and sure they do. But even those gaming classics have nothing like the popularity they once enjoyed. I fire up my favourite old games for a couple of weeks in a given year. When CIV first came out I played it for 4-6 hours daily for 3 months.

So if you assume that at least some percentage of long term players leaving is unavoidable, you arrive at the next problem - New player retention, The golden days of text based web game is long gone in terms of popularity, the advent and popularity of casual web based games has massively changed peoples expectations for web games in general.

All this doesn't mean we can't improve aspects of the game, nor does it mean the decline couldn't have been less significant then it has been. I do however think the reality is that we are likely never going to see the player numbers we had in the past. I think we can make the game more approachable to those that actually fit the niche, which will help new player retention, however the reality is more then likely that there just isn't a huge pool of new players interested in this style of game.

In terms of retaining old players, it is sometimes a catch 22. Improving the game surely keeps it interesting and can help retain players, but you have to remember that no two people want the same thing from Battlemaster. New feature X might be just what we need to keep one group of players interested, while another group either hate it so much they leave, or they leave because while implementing feature X we did not have time to implement feature Y, which would have been interesting to them.

The game needs to be changed so that it remains viable with fewer players. I would think that we actually need to modify it in such a way that it remains viable should the player base continue to decline so that in 2-3 years we don't run the risk that low player density is significantly detracting from the game for those that remain. We also need to be clever enough with the changes that in the case that numbers do increase, we don't have the opposite issue where higher player density is causing issues.

+1

[Zakilevo]

We may even have to simplify the game further so it would require less people to rebuild a region or take a region over eventually.

Maybe this generation of players don't enjoy text based browser games like BM as much as people 10 years ago.

I know a few people who moved on from BM and they all seem to tell me they've achieved all they could and they just cannot feel the same excitement they previously had. - I think I am reaching this point myself as well.

I think the dev team is doing the right thing by trying to cut the game down. Let's hope it will make the game more lively.

[Buffalkill]

Are there any stats such as age of players, frequency of play, etc.? If we knew more about the demographics involved and their habits, it would probably give some clues about where the game is headed and what changes should be made.

[Chenier]

Are there any stats such as age of players, frequency of play, etc.? If we knew more about the demographics involved and their habits, it would probably give some clues about where the game is headed and what changes should be made.

I remember seeing some... I think Vellos had compiled them somehow. They would date somewhat now, though. I think it was in the "retention revisited" thread in this forum.

[Blue Star]

Stats mm there somewhere...

Too be honest its mostly old players leaving that makes me sad. Who is going to remember North and south Darka with me or when Tom openly had characters playing along side us, or even when Loren beat me out of a banker election in Fontan or when Indirk came to darka or when Lavagina's sister killed Herumor.

But in with the new out with the old... only if we could improve retention of the new!

[Atanamir]

With all respect to the dev team and I know that they do as lot...if we all know how important it is to get new players or have old ones return to their old realms, why are such bugs not fixed ASAP?

And don't say it is Christmas, it is now January 5th.

http://bugs.battlemaster.org/view.php?id=7918

It was also posted to the forum without any official answer.

http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,5355.0.html

http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,5356.0.html

I know of at least one player that we lost/did not get this way.

[Sacha]

While the Perdan estate bug doesn't seem to be fixed, there is an easy workaround solution: Using the old character creation system. No issues there, as I've just established by joining Perdan with a new character. And I'm positive this option was available at the time as well.

Also I must say that if your guy bailed because he couldn't join one specific realm, he doesn't sound like a huge loss to the BM community. And to be perfectly frank, this comes across less as 'We lost a player' and more as 'I lost a minion'...

[Atanamir]

While the Perdan estate bug doesn't seem to be fixed, there is an easy workaround solution: Using the old character creation system. No issues there, as I've just established by joining Perdan with a new character. And I'm positive this option was available at the time as well.

Also I must say that if your guy bailed because he couldn't join one specific realm, he doesn't sound like a huge loss to the BM community. And to be perfectly frank, this comes across less as 'We lost a player' and more as 'I lost a minion'...

I can confirm that this worked out...

New Knight   (just in)
A new knight has emerged from the ranks of the Perdan nobles. Drustan Andrasta is starting his career today.
He originates from Partora. He comes from a new noble family (OOC: 1 days in the game) and he might need some assistance to get started. Mentors, take note. You can check the background of this family or send a welcome message.

...but insulting people here is not helping at all.
It was no friend of mine nor anyone that would be my minion...
Another player from Perdan reported this, don't forget that.
Also, I believe that large realms are more attractive than smaller ones for new players (although this never applied for me personally).

Still, I believe that such bugs need maximum attention IMO and if an old player like Nightmare didn't see that what you say, how can we expect that a new one does?!

[Sacha]

Because the link is right there on the character creation page. I didn't know it existed either until I tried creating a character, but it isn't hidden or anything. I spotted it almost as soon as I read the bottom of the page. If the new guy would have taken the time to read everything properly he would have spotted it just as easily as I did. The only way I can think of to make the link more visible is to put it at the top of the page.

Also, this isn't a huge bug from a neutral point of view. It's not a game-wide bug that screws everyone. This affects only one realm as far as I can tell, and a solution is on the very same page.

[Buffalkill]

Stats mm there somewhere...

Too be honest its mostly old players leaving that makes me sad. Who is going to remember North and south Darka with me or when Tom openly had characters playing along side us, or even when Loren beat me out of a banker election in Fontan or when Indirk came to darka or when Lavagina's sister killed Herumor.

But in with the new out with the old... only if we could improve retention of the new!

If we had some good data showing when and why players drop out, then we could try to think of a way to prevent them dropping out. I'd bet that there are some recognizable trends. For example, let's say newbies have an 80% chance of dropping out in the first month, but if they stay beyond a month, their likelihood goes down to 50%, or something like that. Then you can take a closer look at both groups and look for what the drop-outs have in common with each other and what sets them apart from the non-dropouts. You might find, for example, that newbies who received welcome messages from their realm-mates were more likely to stay in the game than those that didn't. And you could do a similar analysis of the old-timers. I know everybody has theories, so let's put them to good use.


P.S. There was a character called Lavagina???