International banking system

[pcw27]

I'm working on an idea for an international bank based on a guild. Here's my thinking so far:

Guild Ranks:

Applicant- Aspirant rank from which people can apply for loans. Like in a real bank loans have to be approved by the guild. Interested nobles will need to give a reason they need the gold and show evidence that they'll be able to pay it back with interest. This rank can also be used to apply to become a Branch Manager, in which case they'd need to show they are capable of creating a new guild house.

Debtor- A rank with a high max debt and a monthly fee. Rank is by appointment only.

Creditor- This rank is purchased at a high cost. It then comes with a monthly grant. The grant should be considerably lower then the fees applied to debtors. If a creditor's balance falls into the negatives then they are demoted to debtors.

Branch Manager- Reserved for region lords who open a new guild house in their region. Branch managers receive a grant without needing to buy an expensive rank since they've already built a guild house.

Magistrates- A rank reserved for realm judges who are bank members, Magistrates must swear to enforce the bank's authority within their realm applying punishments to debtors who reach their maximum debt and other people who transgress the bank's rules.

Executive Officer of the Bank- The highest rank reserved for whomever is in charge.

In addition to the bank's treasury the institution can be used for nobles to arrange direct investments with one another. Nobles entering into a contract can have the bank enforce their transaction in exchange for a nominal fee.


So what are your thoughts? Would this work? If so I think it would make for a great way to drive roleplay, create intrigue and otherwise ad excitement to the game. Imagine realms bitterly paying off war debts, or a creditor realm going to war with a realm of debtors so their accounts don't get seized. So many possibilities.

[Ketchum]

Your post is very detailed for an international bank. We could use someone like you on Colonies island when we need the realm to transfer money to another realm.

[Buffalkill]

I like this idea. Perhaps there could be a role for the realms' bankers too. I'd probably sign up if you're doing this on Dwilight or Atamara.

[Indirik]

It is an interesting idea. However, I think that guild taxes and maintenance would kill it. Any region lord could run up huge amounts of credit by depositing gold, then cranking up the regional tax rates to get it back for himself. Guildhouse maintenance would also slowly sap away your reserves, requiring people to continually put in money to maintain guildhouses, and thus generating bigger and bigger balances.

In addition, I think you'd also have a problem with the realms, if your judges start trying to enforce guild punishments at a realm level. What realm would be willing to allow that to happen? No way in hell I'd let you start banning/fining my nobles because they owe your guild money.

[Buffalkill]

I think it's worth trying.

[pcw27]

It is an interesting idea. However, I think that guild taxes and maintenance would kill it. Any region lord could run up huge amounts of credit by depositing gold, then cranking up the regional tax rates to get it back for himself.

That would be rather risky wouldn't it? You can't just increase guild taxes so they'd be hurting their own region. Also Branch managers could be required to swear to a standard tax rate or risk being ejected from the guild.

Guildhouse maintenance would also slowly sap away your reserves, requiring people to continually put in money to maintain guildhouses, and thus generating bigger and bigger balances.

Can't the grant fee structure be set to compensate for this?

In addition, I think you'd also have a problem with the realms, if your judges start trying to enforce guild punishments at a realm level. What realm would be willing to allow that to happen? No way in hell I'd let you start banning/fining my nobles because they owe your guild money.

Well that's the fun of it. Suppose half the realm are creditors in the bank. The guild magistrate wants to impose a fine on a delinquent debtor. The ruler doesn't like that and threatens to kick out the judge if he does so. The judge explains this to the Chief banker and the banker threatens to eject every creditor in that realm from the guild and seize their accounts.

I like this idea. Perhaps there could be a role for the realms' bankers too. I'd probably sign up if you're doing this on Dwilight or Atamara.

I think the best role for bankers would be "Auditors" they could provide information to the bank and help investigate possible abuses.

I'm thinking I'll start in Atamara first. I have a character there who has a region but otherwise doesn't do much. I just need to work out some exact numbers for this.

[Eirikr]

Sounds to me like someone has a system that looks interesting, but has a few glaring flaws that rely on the trust of the members within or the realms supporting it... Perfect. It's always more fun when the system isn't perfect beforehand. Makes yet another way in which someone could start a new war. Some Duke embezzles? See who will help punish him... Those who don't? Boot from the guild or attack them.

[pcw27]

Exactly, tons of potential for conflicts and corruption, but also a risk of getting caught.

[Penchant]

I would do tiered ranks for both creditor and debitor. That way you get more money from creditors and with debitors they can't take 500 when a loan was only agreed to be 100 and you can have different interest rates. With Branch Manager and Creditor you have to be careful otherwise you lose all your funds so I suggest small grants for Creditor, like say 5 a month for 100 gold, 10 for 250, 17 for 500, etc. With Branch Manager I would suggest that they get a grant once every in game year of maybe 25. I would also suggest having two sets of ranks, one for Branch Managers and one for non debtors so you aren't switching their rank just for that grant once a year. As well you could probably set up special deals for high ranking members of realms be willing to submit some authority to the bank.

[Eduardo Almighty]

I think the main problem is that we already have a lot of gold around for everyone, mainly in Dwilight, where everyone is Lord. In some realms, like in Sirion, we have our own way to distribute gold and I can just imagine the tons of gold some old people have with them. I know because I'm used to donate a lot of it, send it to my family or just keep it around. It's usual to keep 1/2k gold in bonds with my rich characters.

However, I can imagine a situation where a Priest of a poor religion try a loan to build a temple or something like this. Or Adventurers... maybe poor Lords that wants to build up in their regions fastest than he wants to wait for a certain number of taxes. In the end, I think the continent you choose will determine much of the success or failure of this idea. Mainly because few people will care to help, in a way or another, an enemy.

"The bank is an institution that lend us money if we present sufficient evidence that we doesn't need money at all..." - Baron of Itararé.

[Blue Star]

It is an interesting idea. However, I think that guild taxes and maintenance would kill it. Any region lord could run up huge amounts of credit by depositing gold, then cranking up the regional tax rates to get it back for himself. Guildhouse maintenance would also slowly sap away your reserves, requiring people to continually put in money to maintain guildhouses, and thus generating bigger and bigger balances.

Do not foil my plan!

[pcw27]

I think the main problem is that we already have a lot of gold around for everyone, mainly in Dwilight, where everyone is Lord. In some realms, like in Sirion, we have our own way to distribute gold and I can just imagine the tons of gold some old people have with them. I know because I'm used to donate a lot of it, send it to my family or just keep it around. It's usual to keep 1/2k gold in bonds with my rich characters.

However, I can imagine a situation where a Priest of a poor religion try a loan to build a temple or something like this. Or Adventurers... maybe poor Lords that wants to build up in their regions fastest than he wants to wait for a certain number of taxes. In the end, I think the continent you choose will determine much of the success or failure of this idea. Mainly because few people will care to help, in a way or another, an enemy.

A banking system might just solve the problem of excessive wealth by generating massive debts. A few impatient lords borrow money for a new project. Now they owe the guild. They're making payments on that loan and they can't give their knights extra gold for their units, so those knights borrow from the guild. Before you know it gold is a more valuable commodity then it used to be.

[Penchant]

I think the main problem is that we already have a lot of gold around for everyone, mainly in Dwilight, where everyone is Lord. In some realms, like in Sirion, we have our own way to distribute gold and I can just imagine the tons of gold some old people have with them. I know because I'm used to donate a lot of it, send it to my family or just keep it around. It's usual to keep 1/2k gold in bonds with my rich characters.

However, I can imagine a situation where a Priest of a poor religion try a loan to build a temple or something like this. Or Adventurers... maybe poor Lords that wants to build up in their regions fastest than he wants to wait for a certain number of taxes. In the end, I think the continent you choose will determine much of the success or failure of this idea. Mainly because few people will care to help, in a way or another, an enemy.

There are plenty of people who could go for more gold. A new realm wanting to quickly boost infrastructure, need more RC's, or looking for a boost to their military while in war. A poor knight who wants to get gold to be able to field a big unit to impress the leadership to get a lordship. New realm or margrave wants to fund a tournament. A losing realm in war is getting strapped for gold for military and/or food. There are plenty of reasons to need a loan.

[pcw27]

Alright, I think I'm gonna go for this.

Here's what I have so far:

Guild Ranks of "Bank of Atamara"
Nr.       Title       Joining Fee   Monthly Fee/Grant   Max. Debt
1      Founder
5      Magistrate         10 gold   100 gold
6      Auditor         20 gold   100 gold
7      Gold Class Creditor      500 gold   75 gold   0 gold
8      Silver Class Creditor      300 gold   50 gold   0 gold
9      Creditor      100 gold   30 gold   0 gold
20      Account Holder      25 gold   0 gold   0 gold
21      Minor Debtor          -60 gold   100 gold
22      Moderate Debtor         -80 gold   300 gold
23      Major Debtor         -100 gold   500 gold
110      Applicant         0 gold   0 gold

Does this grant fee structure look right to you guys?

[Indirik]

Your grants/fees are much to high on the grants side. Your giving 500 a month to your biggest grant, but only taking 80 s month from your biggest debtor. That's completely opposite to what you need. Overall, you need a lot more fees in order for the guild to generate revenue.