Recruit in places other than capital.

[Karlaek]

I know this is a touchy subject, and will probably be rejected right off the bat but...  I believe other major cities within a realm should be able to lend themselves to recruitment.  Of course the capital would be the best place to recruit, but I feel it is an odd restriction and breaks away from the flavor of the game.

There are several ways to balance this, one being increase the cost of recruitment, make the average quality of troops lower, highly restrict the number of men that can be recruited this way, and perhaps because these units would have mostly green individuals make it harder for them to train/their equipment would break faster. 

Possible exploits:  Would disrupt the pendulum of war and give an advantage to large realms.

[Bhranthan]

Other major cities can actually recruit troops, if they secede.
Another good incentive to secede.

If your realm has several major cities that you'd like to see recruits recruited in, then plot with their dukes to form another realm.
Or if that fails, join a realm that does have the conditions you like.
(atleast i would)

I'd rather see those cities fly their own flag then to fly the flag of some already massive realm being nearly useless compared to their independent state.

[Karlaek]

Perhaps... but it doesn't make sense to create incentive to secede just to recruit troops.  You would still get better troops that way, but bigger nations shouldn't be so brutally punished for no reason, there are other ways to keep them in check with game balances, e.g. higher maintenance costs for government regions far away from capital/lower tax income.

[Bhranthan]

Perhaps... but it doesn't make sense to create incentive to secede just to recruit troops.  You would still get better troops that way, but bigger nations shouldn't be so brutally punished for no reason, there are other ways to keep them in check with game balances, e.g. higher maintenance costs for government regions far away from capital/lower tax income.

I seriously think that it would change the game considerably for bigger realms.
It simply is a huge advantage if you can shorten your full recruitment refit times, which is military the main weakness of a big realm.

Although i agree we can limit such recruitment to just the recruitment centers in that duchy or city, it would still partially remove an important aspect of warfare against or with big realms.

The game allows big realms to exist, but it doesn't wnat big realms to fight wars on the other side of the continent.
Its above all very boring for everyone invovled.

The current mechanics try to force every realm to fight an enemy close by so the war is more intense, more risky for both sides and also makes gang bangs less likley.
Above all it will help new players gain h/p  much quicker, be involved in a real war and thus hopefully stay in the game.

If my first experience of BM would be for example Caligan empire attacking some realm all the way up north id take me for ever to progress in temrs of H/p.
I'd be traveling more then fighting thinking they must have picked the wrong name for this game.

In fact i joined the game in late 2004 in  the middle of an intense war between Caligus and Yssria, big battles would be every two days, i traveled not more then one or two region to bash into the enemy, and this intense conflict lasted for more then a year or even two if i remember correctly.
My character quickly gained the hp needed to check out other classes, become a lord or gain other positions as wel as recruiting a unit that actually mattered in combat.
I was also sucked into an exiting conflict that just kept me exited to play for every day, i'd even wake up early just for BM

I am sure this will happen much less if we allow more long distance wars by implementing a feature like this.

[Chenier]

I support a decentralized recruitment system. In one shot, the rules of strategic secessions and strategic realm mergers would cease to be relevant, and we'd stop having to deal with all these OOC conflicts over actions that are so ridiculously easy to pull off IG.

Cheating should be both hard and obvious, but the new duchy system has made it both easy and hazy. Decentralized recruitment is the only way to fix this.

Furthermore, we are having less and less players, which means less characters in the realms, and more and more realms that lack a critical mass of players to maintain things fun. Big realms should be favored, empires of sorts, so that people are not needlessly devided into tiny groups of scattered players that cannot properly interact with anyone.

[Anaris]

In one shot, the rules of strategic secessions and strategic realm mergers would cease to be relevant

The rules against realm mergers have absolutely nothing to do with recruitment. You're thinking of strategic capital moves.

[Chenier]

The rules against realm mergers have absolutely nothing to do with recruitment. You're thinking of strategic capital moves.

I disagree completely.

The rule against realm mergers was BORN when realms combined as equals in order to combine RCs and recruit from a single closer city in order to have a strategic advantage in war. The wording of the rule doesn't make this explicit, but the rule is otherwise senseless without this context. Heck, a merger can effectively result in a strategic capital move, if the ally's capital is closer to the enemy.

The RP justification for the rule is just filler. If RP was really what we cared about, then it'd be illegal for rulers to step down. After all, that's the reasonning that's been cited for realm mergers: no ruler would be willing to abdicate his throne! Why can they step down to let another realm mate rule, then? Why can dukes agree to abolish their duchies? Lords to give up their regions? It would be the only rule in BM to have nothing to do with game balance or player interaction, the logical domains for OOC rules. The argument, nested in RP that no ruler would be willing to give up his lands, is in complete conflict with the rest of the game and the very nature of RP that would state that different characters would have different ambitions and would be willing to make different levels of concessions.

[Anaris]

The rule against realm mergers was BORN when realms combined as equals in order to combine RCs and recruit from a single closer city in order to have a strategic advantage in war. The wording of the rule doesn't make this explicit, but the rule is otherwise senseless without this context. Heck, a merger can effectively result in a strategic capital move, if the ally's capital is closer to the enemy.

No, that's simply false. You may have interpreted it that way, but Tom was quite clear that the reason for the "no realm mergers" rule was because (paraphrasing) "rulers would never simply agree to make their realm no longer a sovereign realm."

Unless, of course, they were surrendering. Which is why that's an exception.

If you really want, Chénier, I can probably dig up quotes from Tom on this point, but I'd rather not hijack this thread (even if it's a feature request that doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell).

[Chenier]

No, that's simply false. You may have interpreted it that way, but Tom was quite clear that the reason for the "no realm mergers" rule was because (paraphrasing) "rulers would never simply agree to make their realm no longer a sovereign realm."

Unless, of course, they were surrendering. Which is why that's an exception.

If you really want, Chénier, I can probably dig up quotes from Tom on this point, but I'd rather not hijack this thread (even if it's a feature request that doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell).

Yes, he said said that. That doesn't change the fact that the rule was created when a case arose of realms merging for purely strategic reasons.

It's also a ridiculous thing to say. Nations have merged peacefully. It might not be the norm, but nor would it be in BM. If people in a realm don't want to belong to that realm anymore, it makes no sense to try to force them to remain or to give up everything in order to leave. Additionally, it simply does not apply to a large portion of the realm merger cases that arise, because in many of them, DUKES are responsible for the realm mergers, not RULERS. Thefore, the duke doesn't give up anything at all, he's just destroying a sovereignty that wasn't his to begin with anyways. Yet it still yields guilty verdicts.

[Azerax]

perhaps allow the capitol city build an outpost recruitment center somewhere (maye within X regions), but offer poor quality troops.

[Vita`]

Unless Tom has lessened on this point and I'm unaware, I do believe this is one of those 'frequently requested; frequently rejected; stop asking' requests and should probably be closed by a mod.

[Chenier]

Unless Tom has lessened on this point and I'm unaware, I do believe this is one of those 'frequently requested; frequently rejected; stop asking' requests and should probably be closed by a mod.

I believe it was, but that was determined long, long ago. And then, it was fine. But with the duchy changes, and the whole lot of problems that are generated from it (I suspect more and more realm merger cases will arise as time progresses, not less), I think it's a natural and necessary evolution of the game. Recruitment in the capital only was fine when every city was its own duchy and it was practically impossible to merge realms in the vast majority of cases, because precisely breaking the rules was hard and obviously exploitive. Now breaking the rules is neither, so it's time to just make it so the rule no longer has a reason to exist.

[Karlaek]

I like the outpost idea... in any case I think we should change something about either Duchies or recruitment.  I love BM as is, but I think it can be improved.

[Zakilevo]

I like the outpost idea... in any case I think we should change something about either Duchies or recruitment.  I love BM as is, but I think it can be improved.

Maybe put restrictions like can only recruit troops with equipment 50/50 or less with 3~4 times the cost plus some high morale penalty? 

[Dishman]

I know this is a wild tangent, but couldn't a region be stacked with militia and be used by the general to refit from assigned militia? It sounds mechanic-abuse, but it would be less invasive than reworking the way recruiting works.