A different view about the surrender terms

[bofeng]

It's reasonable for the winning party to demand whatever terms to the losing party, but just don't blame the losing party for not taking the terms. In reality, losing realms may take whatever terms. But in this game, players will not.

This is especially true when all nobles but two in Cathay joined the realm after the war has started. Velax and the Empire believe that nobles in Cathay should bear the consequence of starting this current war. Yet the very person who started this war has long gone missing. Except two nobles, all Cathay nobles have left. This is indeed a new realm. Velax and many then blamed the new leadership in continuing the war. Well, puppet Stephanie never properly communicated the terms with the council, and Zonasa stole two regions from Cathay from the first day of the new leadership. No one gave us any chance but they still blame us as warmongers.

Kindara has been crippled due to nature disasters. Cathay has lost at least five regions since the start of the war. But these are not enough in the Empire's eyes. They want more. They are so smart to believe that Cathay and Kindara would accept such terms. They are so smart to believe that all Cathayan and Kindaran nobles are careless, mindless, foolish players that care the existence of the two realms so much that we would kneel down and kiss Velax's ass.

Now the terms again. As I said in Bofeng's letter to Velax, if Arcaea was serious in thinking of taking in Cathay into the Empire, why should we cede Ansopen, a rich region that we firmly controlled at that moment? Does it really matter if it's in Cathay or Zonasa? We already lost the Duchy of Colosan and Duchy of Haul, and the war. What's the point in further crippling a realm that is not bordering Arcaea? If the terms do not require Cathay to join the Empire, that's a different story. Keep in mind that what Velax is trying to do is to ask many nobles families to swear loyalty to him. If he wants these 20+ noble families along with more in Kindara to swear loyalty to him, he has to demonstrate that he is a fair, just ruler with enough political wisdom to lead them. But he can't deliver. He can't even understand why so many nobles are so foolish in continuing the losing war. Now who should we blame?

The nature of the last "South vs North" thread, on Velax's part, is to paint a picture how Cathay and Kindara leadership has been so foolish in making vital decisions and how evil the two realms are. His intention was not to communicate, but to undermine the foundation for these two realms. The realty is, however, despite of being the underdog in this nasty war, Cathay has managed to attract and keep a highly active nobility body, in fact the most active one on this continent.

This continent really needs a shakeup. So please work harder, Velax and Marshals in the Empire.

[Antonine]

If you decide you'd rather the war continue until your realm is wiped out rather than join the empire system and give up some territory which you no longer even control then great. That's your call. Very gusty it is too.

But it's exactly that: your decision. Your nobles have been fighting the empire, they are the ones refusing peace terms.

So please don't then complain if Cathay gets wiped out.

And no, I doubt the peace terms are "fair". But people who lose a war never get treated fairly. And by BM standards being left with two duchies isn't bad considering the number of realms in similar situations which were wiped out without any chance of survival.

[Antonine]

This title topic is also misleading. This is not "people" ask, this is "bofeng" ask.

Fyi, I also doubt your claim that Cathay is the most active realm on FEI and, as far as I know, the idea of the empire system is that it will lead to a lot more regular wars than FEI has known previously.

[Velax]

If you're going to come to the forums and toss around wild accusations, Bofeng, at least do us the courtesy of not misrepresenting the truth, leaving out inconvenient facts or just blatantly lying.

Well, puppet Stephanie never properly communicated the terms with the council, and Zonasa stole two regions from Cathay from the first day of the new leadership. No one gave us any chance but they still blame us as warmongers.

Your ruler surrendered with terms she obviously felt she could agree to. Immediately two of your lords defected or seceded (co-incidentally the two who would be required to give up territory under the treaty - I'm sure greed and selfishness played no role in their actions at all) and the rest of you rebelled with the stated purpose of repudiating the terms made. The ruler you rebelled against defected with her territory and without a word you then declared war on Zonasa. And you're apparently shocked that the Empire responded to defend her? I didn't notice you declaring war on Kindara or Sun'Sera, even though they took territory from you as well. In fact, 75% of the regions you have lost this war were taken by your allies or your own nobles. But apparently that's somehow our fault.

Now the terms again. As I said in Bofeng's letter to Velax, if Arcaea was serious in thinking of taking in Cathay into the Empire, why should we cede Ansopen, a rich region that we firmly controlled at that moment? Does it really matter if it's in Cathay or Zonasa? We already lost the Duchy of Colosan and Duchy of Haul, and the war. What's the point in further crippling a realm that is not bordering Arcaea? If the terms do not require Cathay to join the Empire, that's a different story. Keep in mind that what Velax is trying to do is to ask many nobles families to swear loyalty to him. If he wants these 20+ noble families along with more in Kindara to swear loyalty to him, he has to demonstrate that he is a fair, just ruler with enough political wisdom to lead them. But he can't deliver. He can't even understand why so many nobles are so foolish in continuing the losing war. Now who should we blame?

Yourself. This entire little rant is apparently about not wanting to give up Ansopen, yet you leave out the fact that we specifically told you, twice, that we were willing to negotiate on Ansopen. You ignore that and, again, that's apparently our fault. And we said you could have Taop back, a region taken from you by your ally. So these terms could actually have seen Cathay larger than it currently is. But no, we're the horrible unreasonable ones just trying to break poor little innocent Cathay.

I feel that bears repeating. If you had been willing to negotiate properly, Cathay could have ended up with more territory than it has now. But you'd rather piss and moan and complain about how poorly you've been treated. You've only yourselves to blame for that. So please work harder, Bofeng and the Marshals of Cathay.

[bofeng]

If you decide you'd rather the war continue until your realm is wiped out rather than join the empire system and give up some territory which you no longer even control then great. That's your call. Very gusty it is too.

But it's exactly that: your decision. Your nobles have been fighting the empire, they are the ones refusing peace terms.

So please don't then complain if Cathay gets wiped out.

And no, I doubt the peace terms are "fair". But people who lose a war never get treated fairly. And by BM standards being left with two duchies isn't bad considering the number of realms in similar situations which were wiped out without any chance of survival.

No, we won't complain. It's part of the game, isn't it.

I said whatever terms are reasonable.

[bofeng]

This title topic is also misleading. This is not "people" ask, this is "bofeng" ask.

Fyi, I also doubt your claim that Cathay is the most active realm on FEI and, as far as I know, the idea of the empire system is that it will lead to a lot more regular wars than FEI has known previously.

Yes, I am asking, as others are commenting like "I don't see how the terms being offered to Cathay are awful". Well. I wonder too. But when I brought up the terms to Cathay, I was almost targeted. So this is definitely a debatable topic. As people on both sides see differently.

Nobles in Cathay have been blamed for starting this war which some stupid King started years ago, cheated by the puppet Stephanie, forced to fight a losing, defensive war, and yet we have to pay huge price in order to kneel in front of Velax and to become proudly part of the Empire. What a nice term!

Apparently we don't have the right time either, (thanks to Gods) and got caught by the nature disasters. But otherwise, we are proud of our progress in the past several months.

I am curious about this new Empire system too. As of today and for a long while, Cathay gets a "high" rating on the activity level, where no other realm in FEI is having.

[Zakilevo]

See the problem lies with people.

People just don't know how to lose gracefully. Probably because this is an internet game.

People's mentality is not 'well we lost. we should prepare for another war to recover from this one'. Their mentality is 'we lost? well **** time to ruin everything!'.

People just can't accept the fact they lost.

[bofeng]

If you're going to come to the forums and toss around wild accusations, Bofeng, at least do us the courtesy of not misrepresenting the truth, leaving out inconvenient facts or just blatantly lying.

Your ruler surrendered with terms she obviously felt she could agree to. Immediately two of your lords defected or seceded (co-incidentally the two who would be required to give up territory under the treaty - I'm sure greed and selfishness played no role in their actions at all) and the rest of you rebelled with the stated purpose of repudiating the terms made. The ruler you rebelled against defected with her territory and without a word you then declared war on Zonasa. And you're apparently shocked that the Empire responded to defend her? I didn't notice you declaring war on Kindara or Sun'Sera, even though they took territory from you as well. In fact, 75% of the regions you have lost this war were taken by your allies or your own nobles. But apparently that's somehow our fault.

Yourself. This entire little rant is apparently about not wanting to give up Ansopen, yet you leave out the fact that we specifically told you, twice, that we were willing to negotiate on Ansopen. You ignore that and, again, that's apparently our fault. And we said you could have Taop back, a region taken from you by your ally. So these terms could actually have seen Cathay larger than it currently is. But no, we're the horrible unreasonable ones just trying to break poor little innocent Cathay.

I feel that bears repeating. If you had been willing to negotiate properly, Cathay could have ended up with more territory than it has now. But you'd rather piss and moan and complain about how poorly you've been treated. You've only yourselves to blame for that. So please work harder, Bofeng and the Marshals of Cathay.

I am not tossing wild accusations, but instead you, Velax, said the leadership in Cathay are idiots. In my eyes, your altitude is the biggest problem in FEI. If you keep treating people in such a manner, you can't expect to win the nobility of your opponents.

No. We never say it's your fault. Don't give yourself so many credits.. Losing the several regions is just the right price to get rid of the puppet Stephanie. And we all blame the former leadership to bring such chaos to Cathay. And we are so glad we managed to remove them.

Oh, no. We are the evil ones, as you try to paint us as. We even stole unique weapons from your majesty. Didn't you just broadcast our evil deeds including starting the war?

Regarding the negotiations, I said we only had difficulty on those three issues. Others were fine. But you were only able to discuss on the third point. Your letters were treated very seriously in Cathay, but at the end the council didn't believe you wanted to show us your mercy.

I am not moaning, but just have to defend our positions. You, Velax, have already conquered most part of the FEI, and we just want some voice out on the forum.

[bofeng]

See the problem lies with people.

People just don't know how to lose gracefully. Probably because this is an internet game.

People's mentality is not 'well we lost. we should prepare for another war to recover from this one'. Their mentality is 'we lost? well **** time to ruin everything!'.

People just can't accept the fact they lost.

You are right. It's hard especially when the internet nature of the game mixed with some RP elements.. Compounded with the mixed background of our players. It's just hard to make such decisions properly in an IC way. This makes BM both fun and boring.

[Haerthorne]

Has anyone in the south proposed taking lesser terms by embracing the Empire then working away from inside? I mean honestly, if you hate somebody there are worse ways to go than trying to take them down as equals in their own framework. Of course it sounds very much like Cathay and Kindara have been given plenty of chances. Nobody tries to play the game to ruin it specifically for other people, so give the ideas a listen at least.

[bofeng]

I have just modified the title. I understand the terms were carefully prepared by the other side, so the original title was kind of "ranting".