Corsanctum Attempting Strategic Capital Move

[BattleMaster Server]

Summary:	Corsanctum Attempting Strategic Capital Move
Violation:	Strategic Capital Move
World:	Dwilight
Complainer:	John Smith
About:	Wassiley

Full Complaint Text:
The regent of Corsanctum is attempting a strategic capital moving during times of war.

[Stabbity]

Isn't this not even a rule anymore? I was pretty sure you could move your capital whenever, for whatever reason, hence the stat penalty to your regions.

Also, wasn't Corsanctum's capital Mimer? Seeing as it is no longer apart of their realm, that kind of necessitates a capital change.

[Graeth]

I was unsure whether it was Unterstrum or Mimer (I did not think capitals could revolt/be given away), and decided to make the complaint regardless as the timing seemed suspect.  If this is no longer a rule the Wiki should be updated accordingly. 

[Stabbity]

I was unsure whether it was Unterstrum or Mimer (I did not think capitals could revolt/be given away), and decided to make the complaint regardless as the timing seemed suspect.  If this is no longer a rule the Wiki should be updated accordingly.

I could be wrong on the capital moves no longer being illegal. However, I do believe Mimer was Corsanctum's capital.

[Thehatter]

Yes Mimer was the capitol. Maybe moto has his hands in this also... Muwhahahahahah

[Anaris]

Isn't this not even a rule anymore? I was pretty sure you could move your capital whenever, for whatever reason, hence the stat penalty to your regions.

This has always been the case with capital moves. It's meant as a penalty just for doing such a monumental task, not as a replacement for the rule.

However, the rule has never been "don't move your capital in time of war." The rule is "don't move your capital purely or primarily so that you can recruit closer to the front line."

Also, wasn't Corsanctum's capital Mimer? Seeing as it is no longer apart of their realm, that kind of necessitates a capital change.

Any realm that has lost its capital certainly has to move it to a new region. I can come up with some hypothetical examples where it could still be an illegal capital move (for instance, they have 2 cities left in the realm, one in the middle of their realm, the other near the front line, and they move it to the less central one for the recruitment benefit); however, in general, I think that realms whose capital has been lost should get at least a little extra leeway in these things.

[Gustav Kuriga]

This has always been the case with capital moves. It's meant as a penalty just for doing such a monumental task, not as a replacement for the rule.

However, the rule has never been "don't move your capital in time of war." The rule is "don't move your capital purely or primarily so that you can recruit closer to the front line."

Any realm that has lost its capital certainly has to move it to a new region. I can come up with some hypothetical examples where it could still be an illegal capital move (for instance, they have 2 cities left in the realm, one in the middle of their realm, the other near the front line, and they move it to the less central one for the recruitment benefit); however, in general, I think that realms whose capital has been lost should get at least a little extra leeway in these things.

Even that hypothetical is a very weak argument for punishment. There's a huge difference between making a decision to move the capital while you still control the city, and choosing the best of two options when you're forced to after the capital leaves in a hostile manner. Shouldn't be penalized when making a smart decision out of a bad situation.

[Anaris]

Even that hypothetical is a very weak argument for punishment. There's a huge difference between making a decision to move the capital while you still control the city, and choosing the best of two options when you're forced to after the capital leaves in a hostile manner. Shouldn't be penalized when making a smart decision out of a bad situation.

I think the fact that you view it as necessarily the "smart" decision shows just how deep the misunderstanding goes about the reasoning for this rule in the first place.

Why, in real-world terms, would it be "smart" to put your capital city—the seat of your entire realm's government—on the front line of a war? Remember, the fact that it is also your sole recruitment base is an OOC restriction intended to maintain gameplay balance.

Frankly, it's comments like these that make me want to implement stiff penalties for having your capital sacked, or even just losing a battle there to any significant number of enemy troops. Maybe if, say, tax collection was suspended for two full weeks after such an event due to the civil turmoil, people might think twice about the front line being a strategically "smart" place for their capital....

[OFaolain]

The capitol of Corsanctum was Mimer; after Mimer left the realm we didn't have one until we moved it to Freke, which is now the capitol (and, incidentally, NOT on the front lines unless you lot have ANOTHER doom fleet).  In what way is that "strategic"?  If you thought it was Unterstrom, you should have checked first.

Anaris, we did do the smart thing: we re-established our capitol within the core of our realm (mimer to freke is city-town-town-city) and away from the front lines.  Putting it in Unterstrom would have been stupid, and that was our only other option.

[Velax]

I can come up with some hypothetical examples where it could still be an illegal capital move (for instance, they have 2 cities left in the realm, one in the middle of their realm, the other near the front line, and they move it to the less central one for the recruitment benefit); however, in general, I think that realms whose capital has been lost should get at least a little extra leeway in these things.

So if a realm loses its capital to glacier/monsters, does it have to choose a city away from the frontlines as the new capital as long as there is one available?

[Graeth]

Right on, like I said, I didn't think capitals could leave the realm and the timing was very suspect.  Sorry to waste any time.

[Anaris]

So if a realm loses its capital to glacier/monsters, does it have to choose a city away from the frontlines as the new capital as long as there is one available?

Not necessarily. I think it would have to be a case-by-case determination.

To give some locally relevant examples that I hope show my thought process:

• If Kindara's capital had been Osaliel, then moving the capital to Masahakon after Osaliel fell would have been no problem whatsoever. It is a large city near the center of their realm.
• I would consider it a mildly gray area for Kindara to move their capital to Zonasa or Taop, but I wouldn't press the issue hard. They are both relatively small, recently-taken cities, but they've held them for a few weeks now, and under the circumstances, I could certainly see them being worried about Masahakon (and other cities further to the southwest) getting iced.
• I would consider it quite inappropriate for Kindara to move their capital to Ipsosez. It is a region they've held for a very short time, it's not in very good shape, and not only is it directly on the front line of the war, it's actually a bit of a stretch from the bulk of their regions. It's also a stronghold, rather than a city, which I would consider a minor point against it in this matter. I think the most important consideration, though, is that it is well out into their frontier, while there are multiple more suitable candidates available.

[Anaris]

Right on, like I said, I didn't think capitals could leave the realm and the timing was very suspect.  Sorry to waste any time.

They certainly can. It's rare for them to do so without being pushed, but it does happen.

[Stabbity]

Not necessarily. I think it would have to be a case-by-case determination.

To give some locally relevant examples that I hope show my thought process:

• If Kindara's capital had been Osaliel, then moving the capital to Masahakon after Osaliel fell would have been no problem whatsoever. It is a large city near the center of their realm.
• I would consider it a mildly gray area for Kindara to move their capital to Zonasa or Taop, but I wouldn't press the issue hard. They are both relatively small, recently-taken cities, but they've held them for a few weeks now, and under the circumstances, I could certainly see them being worried about Masahakon (and other cities further to the southwest) getting iced.
• I would consider it quite inappropriate for Kindara to move their capital to Ipsosez. It is a region they've held for a very short time, it's not in very good shape, and not only is it directly on the front line of the war, it's actually a bit of a stretch from the bulk of their regions. It's also a stronghold, rather than a city, which I would consider a minor point against it in this matter. I think the most important consideration, though, is that it is well out into their frontier, while there are multiple more suitable candidates available.

You realize that the four options available based off the glacier projections are Haul, Taop, Zonasa and Ipsosez, right?

Haul is not really an option frankly, given the mountains.

[Indirik]

Why, in real-world terms, would it be "smart" to put your capital city—the seat of your entire realm's government—on the front line of a war?

But it worked out so well for the Barony of Makar...