Number of Players Lost Since Glacier?

[jaune]

Well, situation at Darka is a bit complicated. We are at war with 5 realms, been there for 2-3 years, been able to hold off. Now we have lost big chunk of our land and losing more all the time. We were doing good to keep enemy off, but we are not in position to get 2 more realms against us to expand, it would only speed up our wipe out.

[Lychaon]

Isolated case? 4 reports from a minimum of 2, if not 3 nobles. This was despite apparent orders from Julius to stop - a claim of no honor is sort of a side effect to an epic failure to follow the simplest of orders for 3 days in a row. Means either people simply don't care, or aren't bothering to read the orders given.

Sorry, but no. When that happened for the first time, some nobles, ruler, general and judge reprehended the author of the killing spree, and a whole debate started. Some of us argued in favour of the poor Lurian peasants and some others just thought they're just goat !@#$ and manifested openly their will to keep on killing them.

Before a second killing spree started, Suffete Julius quoted the letters where our Fissoan allies threatened with the withdrawal of their support. And then, as some Barcan characters played a villainous and rather egoistic role, the following carnages occurred.

I have to admit that some killing spree even had a really cool RP behind, and the two nobles banned for that left the realm quite epically. That's pretty much what happened. Anyway, it's not like it matters much at this point.

[CyberGenesis]

I was less concerned with the killing sprees than the Rape spree, but it was after the open letter from Julius to the rulers that it would stop that it continued into Grodno for 2 days.

Edit: Good to know the 2nd noble was Banished - nothing was ever said to Luria about it. I've seen more information from random Barcan/Fissoan/D'Haran nobles than i have from those I've asked directly.

[Wolfang]

Yes, Barca had a wide range of crazy characters. Always interesting and a headache for our council.  :)

[CyberGenesis]

I honestly wish this event hadn't happened when it did. I just started getting into the realm politics when everything hit the fan. Dealing with D'Hara and Barca could have been a lot more fun (Fissoa's a bit more boring) if it hadn't been for half the continent suddenly crapping their collective pants

[Penchant]

I was less concerned with the killing sprees than the Rape spree, but it was after the open letter from Julius to the rulers that it would stop that it continued into Grodno for 2 days.

Edit: Good to know the 2nd noble was Banished - nothing was ever said to Luria about it. I've seen more information from random Barcan/Fissoan/D'Haran nobles than i have from those I've asked directly.

Rape is not reported to the realm doing so, only killing, so they actually didn't know rape was happening until you said something.

[retipuj]

I'm the player of Reylich Corvian, the General of Barca. I seldom visit the forums, as I think it's a very bitter place where people are seemingly always arguing. But I do drop by once in a while and check out what's up with other realms and other OOC stuffs. After reading some of the comments in this thread, I feel obliged to clarify things as best I could. Maybe learn from my mistakes and ask what many of you would have done in my place. Most of this is in response to the points brought up by Lapallanch.

Firstly, why did Barcan forces not sail across the seas and land on rurals with D'Haran forces? This was one of the first strategies I had in mind. But after some discussion, the council felt that it was very risky. Because 1) most of our units did not have that much gold with them, and sailing and landing on rural would incur a high costs, especially considering the size of our units and the number of siege engines we were bringing. 2) sailing with such large units and high number of siege engines was going to take ages, and starvation due to lack of provisions was a distinct possibility. 3) we were aware that our allies needed some time to rally, and we needed all the gold we have to continue paying our men should the timetable dragged on.

We knew our allies were in trouble, but we couldn't risk staying in western continent for too long lest our path was blocked by monsters, and we had to waste even more men fighting through them to get to Paisly. We knew we needed to wait for our allies, but that was a risk we had to take. Sail to Fissoa, and hope that our allies could be ready soon enough.

Secondly, why not target our allies? This was an IC decision. D'Hara has stuck by us, and Fissoa did put in a lot of effort to join the Southern League and help D'Hara. I personally don't think Reylich as a character would have accepted invading D'Hara to get a new home. Maybe if you had brought this up before we left, it would have made for a good debate, and things could have turned out differently.

Thirdly, why did we march across Lurian lands to loot? Reasoning was two-fold 1) we didn't want to risk starving to death marching through Palm Seas from Drowenton 2) we thought it would be good to cripple Lurian economy and add some more gold into Barcan pockets to allow them to pay their men longer.

What happened with the killing and raping? It all actually started out with a simple mis-click. Someone intended to loot for tax gold, but mistakenly killed and raped instead. He RP-ed it IC, which I accepted. Then many other Barcan nobles voiced their discontent and this ended up splitting the realm in half. The continued killing and raping was done out of blatant disregard for orders issued by the RUler and General (myself). This resulted in the banning of two nobles, which caused even more dissent. I actually loved those two nobles OOC-ly, as they added a lot of flavour into the game. Shame that those two nobles had to leave the way they did.

To Vogelens point: I did offer to help Fissoa with the monster problem, but did not receive any reply and direction. Granted, I could have pushed for it, and maybe communication was lacking on my part. But I've always assumed that the monsters appeared after Barcan forces have begun marching into Lurian lands. If I am mistaken, then I admit my mistake.

I will also admit my mistake with regards to not initiating a TO in Shinnen P to force an open battle, and for the lack of communication between the military leadership and the rest of the nobles. I wish I could have done things differently, but they are all over, and we are in the situation we are in now. And we just have to deal with it I guess.

I understand all the RP and IC decisions made by Barcan players, and as much as I dislike the situation, it made for a good gaming experience perhaps. Or maybe I'm the only one feeling this way, even in the face of failure and the extinction of the one realm that I have had the most fun playing in. But I can't help but feel that the Barcan council is being attacked personally on the forums. I hope to just clear the air a bit. If I have made any wrong assumptions, or mistakes, please do let me know. It would even make me feel better knowing my mistakes. I'm not exactly a new player, having played quite a bit a few years ago, but there are still lots of things I'm learning.

[Deytheur]

My perpective on recent events, as the content are rarely the most vocal I thought I wouuld write something.

To start with, I don't really know much about Dwilight and have only half paid attention to everything that has been said in this thread. However, there will always be people that complain at you, whayever decisions you made. If you did something else people would find a way to complain about that instead.

But it the end, only quitting leads to failure.

In Eponllyn we also lost all our lands but we have managed to relocate to one city. We are probably going to get boned by Perdan. In fact I'm surprised they didn't ambush us while we were travelling. As we only have one region we can't even give everyone as estate, we certainly don't make enough food, and time will tell about gold. So we are certainly in a worse position than before. However, I'm glad that I have seen very little complaining by our members on the forum.

I'm glad that we've managed to stick together and at least get something not too bad out of it. The event spurred a lot of activity, interest and realm wide discussion as we tried to adapt. One's realm can be destroyed by any number of reasons, that's the nature of the game. It's about writing the histories of our realms through good and bad.  Just because this was done by outside influence (in an attempt to make the game better in the long run) it shouldn't warrant that much different a response.

I hope there is still hope for Barca in the short term as so many people seem to like it there but if there isn't then there is always an option to make a long term goal of refounding it somewhere some time in the future.

[CyberGenesis]

Does a TO force the loss of the walls to the defender? I always hear conflicting reports on that front -

I sorta wish people would double post RPs in siutations like that to both their realm and all nobles in the region, then maybe we'd have seen it to. We're playing a game driven by RP, a little more shown to your 'enemy' wouldn't hurt if it isn't giving up secret info. Even then, I always hope people are mature enough to not be metagaming wanks. I try hard to cram an RP post in every so often simply because RP posts in luria have dwindled lately. It's sad, but again - it happens. My character isn't going to have a safe place to run to if Luria falls, in a way i'm looking forward to that.

To the note of Disregard to orders, I had assumed as much after the continued reports when Julius made such an adamant claim to be making orders to stop. It happens, tis the way of things. Happened in history, will happen in a game.

On a personal note - I have every expectation that the events currently happening in Luria can possibly lead to our demise. I knew that as soon as the League gave us the finger weeks ago. The combined note of persistent horde issues, years straight of starvation from droughts, and a 3v1 fight after getting gutted by parts A and B? Yeah, it could happen. It's head-desking frustration, but it's part of the game. If you can't handle getting kicked in the stones in the game from time to time, don't play. This isn't a carebear friendly game. Yeah it sucks for realms like Darka that have years of history and constantly in a pissing contest with everyone around them and doing well for themselves, but i'm sure the persians, celts and everyone else felt the same way. Divide, assimilate, and eventually hijack the realms you move to. This isn't real life, the other realms aren't going to murder every noble of a conquered realm or banish them from everywhere. Somewhere will take the refugees

[Chenier]

Defeated defenders will not get access to the walls, TO or otherwise. At least not in the following round, if I understood the battles in Fheuvenem correctly. However, there are some things which can trigger a new battle with the defenders behind the walls. I don't recall which, but a takeover prevents this from ever happening. A takeover also takes away a lot of options from the defenders.

Also, I'd like to say that I strongly disagree with the people accusing those discontent of caring only for their titles. Since when have titles been hard to come by? Years, at least. It is not uncommon for newbies with but a few months under their belts, sometimes not even one, to get elected to lordships and government positions. We just don't really have many people running for most positions in most places anymore. Of course, this varies greatly from realm to realm, but it remains that in many, if not most, promotions are incredibly easy. Losing one's realm is not about losing one's titles, it's about losing one's team. The culture of the realm is lost, and that culture has a lot to do with how fun a realm is. Even in the best cases where a realm is immediately refounded after being destroyed, it always seems like part of what was had is lost. And while the motives of the GMs is understandable, it's also understandable for those targeted feel it unjust.

[Indirik]

Does a TO force the loss of the walls to the defender?

When a TO is running, the realm running the TO is always the defender.
Only a region owner fighting as the Defender, can use the walls. Therefore, when an active TO is running, no one gets the walls.

[Wolfsong]

Something to note:

If there is ANY militia or troop presence left in the city/townsland, then the region owner is the defender and will always get the walls in defense, even if the attacking realm has won the last few battles and should, by rights, be cozily set up in the castle. Hence why hunting enemies is so vitally important - if you leave scattered forces in a region, and they rally just before a counter-attack, your troops will be the ones attacking.

If you start a TO, and there is zero presence of enemy troops, militia or otherwise, you should be set up as the defender and get full use of the walls.

Otherwise, if you start a TO, neither side will get the walls since both sides are defending.

[Anaris]

Something to note:

If there is ANY militia or troop presence left in the city/townsland, then the region owner is the defender and will always get the walls in defense, even if the attacking realm has won the last few battles and should, by rights, be cozily set up in the castle.

That's actually not quite true. It only works when the militia rallies, or a new militia unit is recruited. (As your next sentence implies, but I thought it was important to clarify.)

If you start a TO, and there is zero presence of enemy troops, militia or otherwise, you should be set up as the defender and get full use of the walls.

No. If you are not the region owner, you will never, ever, ever get the walls.

[Zakilevo]

retipuj,

No one is a good general from the start. I also smashed my armies against walls and sent them to their deaths many times. You will eventually learn what to do and find your own style. Until then, brace yourself for a rough ride  8) because you won't be mastering it over a day or two which can only lead to a lot of dead troops and angry nobles.

You don't usually need to have more than 50 SEs. Usually a bit less will do the trick as well. If you can overpower(with infantry) your enemy then you can do with a lot less. We should have gotten some gold from our allies instead of asking them for actual units. If we had gold to cross the sea, we would have saved ourselves a lot of time. Although this sounds weird, using the ferry is pretty much same thing as walking over land. SEs slow your movement speed down a lot. But using boats is different. It also moves a lot faster. Instead of 8 hours a turn, it moves 12 hours or more. And usually, you can move one sea zone within a day (2 turns, 3 at max). Also, another reason why it cost so much to embark was b/c Paisly was a rogue region

Also, it is usually good to minimize your risks but sometimes it is good to take more risks for the bigger gain. Many generals don't like risking their reputations but if you don't take risks you will never reach higher. Of course your goal and gain should justify your risk.

I understand why people don't attack their allies but desperate times call for desperate measures. Taking Madina islands away from Fissona was probably the most feasible plan. Sure they stuck around a lot but when your own arse is on fire who cares! You first, your allies second. Not the other way around.

Marching across Luria was fine. The problem lies with how you executed the campaign. You gave too much time to Luria. At least enough to let them mobilize their armies. If you were planning to strike a city, you should have whipped your army all the way to SP first. Wasting time looting a rural region is not productive. The region didn't even have that much gold and food to begin with and at the end, it only made the situation worse.

When you have one shot, you don't waste it on looting some regions. You go straight for your goal.

[OFaolain]

When you have one shot, you don't waste it on looting some regions. You go straight for your goal.

That's why I didn't understand why Asylon wandered around in Shilorak, Vorstadt and Mimiravair when they landed; they landed a spy a couple days before their main force who could have told them easily that all (not joking here) of our regions were starving (and that we had no military force to speak of whatsoever).  Knowing that, why risk Morek and Astrum assembling in time?  Why not go straight for Unterstrom?  If Astrum had been faster to respond they might not have even gotten into the city at all.