lower honor/prestige requirements for classes

[Thehatter]

Title: lower the honor/prestige for classes.

Summery: lower honor/prestige requirements for the following classes "Courtier,Diplomat,Trader."

Details: makes it so newer player and characters can start a non military career without having to fight battles and also give new players/character option in realms that have fewer wars.

Exploits: none

[Zakilevo]

Yeah. I agree with this.

It seems new players are quite frustrated by the restrictions. When the game had more wars going, it was easier to gain honour and prestige but even after a war, it is quite hard to gain enough h/p to become an infiltrator or cavalier. Maybe all the requirements should be halved?

[Eirikr]

Yeah. I agree with this.

It seems new players are quite frustrated by the restrictions. When the game had more wars going, it was easier to gain honour and prestige but even after a war, it is quite hard to gain enough h/p to become an infiltrator or cavalier. Maybe all the requirements should be halved?

Cavs especially; I get the idea and flavor behind the restriction (and would be fine if it stayed), but if you really want to go with cavalry, it's extremely difficult to contribute anything until you are a cavalier. The 25 man unit to 60 man unit jump that comes with it feels odd and, the way cavalry works, makes you feel very inadequate until that point.

[Anaris]

I'd like to put this on hold until we see what the results of the War Improvements Package are. If it creates as much more war as I'm hoping, it should become much, much easier to gain honor and prestige fast again.

[Thehatter]

Even for the Courtier,Diplomat,Trader classes that don't fight on the battlefield? these classes shouldn't need honor and prestige.

[Dishman]

Most classes require maybe a dozen fair battles, which could be found in under a month if you have constant monsters. I can understand if you start a new character in the wrong spot it might be frustrating. Especially if you start immigrating to find a good home for them (which takes a h/p hit).

If anything, I think hero should have higher requirements. There should always be a carrot to dangle. My own personal taste would be that hero took considerable more h/p to access, in exchange for more frequent access to the goodies.

[Buffalkill]

I completely agree. It's a very small concession that would make the game more fun for newbies.

[Anaris]

The reason those classes have honor/prestige requirements in the first place is to protect newbies.

There was a widespread practice in earlier days of putting new nobles in a region maintenance brigade of some sort. This is much less fun than allowing them to participate in active wars.

People don't do this anymore, of course, because it's not possible. Because there are restrictions on becoming a Courtier.

[Eirikr]

The reason those classes have honor/prestige requirements in the first place is to protect newbies.

There was a widespread practice in earlier days of putting new nobles in a region maintenance brigade of some sort. This is much less fun than allowing them to participate in active wars.

People don't do this anymore, of course, because it's not possible. Because there are restrictions on becoming a Courtier.

But isn't that protected by the IR? I understand that suggestions may also go quite far in this, but it is clear that nobody is allowed to push someone into something like that.

[OFaolain]

Personal disagreements aside, forcing people into the Courtier class is explicitly against the rules of the game.  As such, why not allow newbies to play as a courtiers if they want to?  Heck, I'd be in favor (I know, much more work, sorry) of a choice on character creation between warrior class or courtier class, depending upon what you want that noble to be.  I wanted to roll a noble who was just going to be a statesman and play a courtier but I had to fight battles and do civil and police work until my H/P were high enough; it would have been nice to just be able to jump into being a courtier.

[Sypher]

With trader changing to a subclass maybe its requirements could be lowered. Or maybe allow a character who otherwise doesn't meet the requirements to become one if they are made Stewart by their liege?

[Penchant]

That's very magnanimous, but I think it would be wise to re-examine this policy as it may have outlived its usefulness. Here are a few problems that I can think of:

• As Eirikr said, class is IR protected
• If it was necessary to protect newbies, then it should apply to players, not characters.
• It's not just "courtier" that is restricted, it's all class changes, lordships, marshal appointments, and elected positions. My chars have been barred from appointments and elections a number of times even when there was nobody else to take the position.
• In case it hasn't been said enough, BM is haemorrhaging players. If you want to save the game, you need to attract and retain newbies who, at present, aren't exactly clamouring to get in.

If you really think the IR is not enough to prevent new players from being assigned "landscaping duty", you could (a) amend the IR; or (b) put a notice on the "change class" and "region maintenance" screens with a link to the Titans.

You are all missing Anaris's point. It has nothing to do with people being forced into Courtier class or by suggestion. Its that whether or not the newbie says so, the Courtier class is second rate in fun compared to being a warrior. I have been one, I have enjoyed it, and I will recommend it to others. But its not a good class for brand new players to start in.

That said, instead of h/p being necessary, a time allotment could probably work of say 60 days. I only agree with that for Courtier because its a main class. All secondary classes you will have to earn them, deal with it. Priest, time allotment could maybe be ok, but the class just sucks for a newbie so I am going say like 120 days. Again, I have a priest, I thoroughly enjoy playing him which I still do, but its not good for new players.

I don't care what the new player who is just sure he will enjoy it has to say, because he hasn't experienced it yet so he doesn't know what he is talking about and then there is a good chance we lose him because he isn't enjoying BM. If he can't deal with it I highly doubt he would have stayed long in BM anyways, which might seem like a bad attitude but one I am in one, and two its probably realistic though.

Edited to remove continuance of the personal disagreements

[Penchant]

With trader changing to a subclass maybe its requirements could be lowered. Or maybe allow a character who otherwise doesn't meet the requirements to become one if they are made Stewart by their liege?

The second suggestion of yours seems like a fine one to me. Its probably not the hardest thing in the world to become a steward now, but hey they will either have probably done something to earn it or made a request to the lord, either way a good thing and if he is a steward it makes sense to allow him to be trader. Trader isn't a very extreme class bad or good atm because of the food system changing so its not really a big deal for a newbie who has gotten himself the position of steward to be able to get the class.

Edited to remove continuance of personal disagreements

[Zakilevo]

If you like pressing a button that spends all your hours to increase regional stats by 1~2%, the courtier class is what you want. It is definitely worth your time. Otherwise, it is more boring than being a priest.

I do agree some requirements are unnecessarily high. I do agree some military related classes should have some high standards but I think we should really lower standards for at least hero,courtier and trader.

Hero - so people die more often. Dying is always awesome.

Courtier, Trader - why on earth do these class even have a restriction? I understand what used to happen in the earlier days but if they try to pull the same thing they will get hammered by IR. I doubt people would want to deal with IR just so they can have one or two more courtiers.

[Buffalkill]

If you like pressing a button that spends all your hours to increase regional stats by 1~2%, the courtier class is what you want. It is definitely worth your time. Otherwise, it is more boring than being a priest.

I do agree some requirements are unnecessarily high. I do agree some military related classes should have some high standards but I think we should really lower standards for at least hero,courtier and trader.

Hero - so people die more often. Dying is always awesome.

Courtier, Trader - why on earth do these class even have a restriction? I understand what used to happen in the earlier days but if they try to pull the same thing they will get hammered by IR. I doubt people would want to deal with IR just so they can have one or two more courtiers.

I'd tend to agree with you on this. Region maintenance can be a bit tedious. Same for training a unit. I've never been able to reach 100% training, and I reached 100% cohesion for the first time last week, and then had my unit wiped out the very next day!