Fix Taxes Please

[Bael]

The tax code needs to be fixed a bit please. Even though I was imprisoned by (rogue), I still got taxed and lost gold. While somewhat comical in imagining the taxman coming along into the woods, asking the bandits if they can tax their prisoner, then heading on his way, it is a serious flaw that needs correction.

[De-Legro]

conceptually it may seems strange, but then you also RECEIVE your tax gold while imprisoned as well. It would be rather drastic if nobles were not to receive their taxes while in prison, so from a mechanics point of view I think the current system works well.

[Foundation]

This is likely a case of realism being overruled by game mechanics.

[Bael]

conceptually it may seems strange, but then you also RECEIVE your tax gold while imprisoned as well. It would be rather drastic if nobles were not to receive their taxes while in prison, so from a mechanics point of view I think the current system works well.

I would would support a change that would see them not receive their gold. If they want it, they can contact their lord to get it after they get out.

Or better yet: I presume that they get the taxes in bonds - this could easily be rp'ed as the bonds being pledged to them (even though they don't receive them immediately, although IG they would), and then they get them when in a city.

However, there is absolutely no way to explain taxing a noble in jail with an IG context. They would not even know how much gold he was carrying, for starters...

And yes, I have read the prior posts. And I do not doubt that the mechanics could be altered. Just as one cannot get messages, why not taxing?

[De-Legro]

I would would support a change that would see them not receive their gold. If they want it, they can contact their lord to get it after they get out.

Or better yet: I presume that they get the taxes in bonds - this could easily be rp'ed as the bonds being pledged to them (even though they don't receive them immediately, although IG they would), and then they get them when in a city.

However, there is absolutely no way to explain taxing a noble in jail with an IG context. They would not even know how much gold he was carrying, for starters...

And yes, I have read the prior posts. And I do not doubt that the mechanics could be altered. Just as one cannot get messages, why not taxing?

Of course the mechanics could be altered, the real question is "Is is worth adding this extra realism at the cost of game balance". To me not really I see no gain for this other then it "making sense" in a real life situation. This game however doesn't aim for super realism, and if we go down the path of "but it makes no sense" can you imagine all the changes we would need to make?

[Indirik]

Or better yet: I presume that they get the taxes in bonds - this could easily be rp'ed as the bonds being pledged to them (even though they don't receive them immediately, although IG they would), and then they get them when in a city.

And at the same time as he picks up his bonds, he can drop off his tax payment, too. Along with 5 gold/day penalty for being late. And 25% compound interest on the whole lot, to boot.

There are indeed some things about this game that just don't make complete sense. The tax ninjas are one of those things. It's an abstraction that keeps things simple and easy, without any unneeded complexity.

[Foundation]

And yes, I have read the prior posts. And I do not doubt that the mechanics could be altered. Just as one cannot get messages, why not taxing?

Actually the mechanics for taxation is quite complex (separate from prison), and would require quite a bit of work to redo in the fashion you described, not to mention a reasonable place for the actual tax gold to go instead of to the one in prison.

[Chenier]

The only thing I'd support is property and wealth tax being deducted from income, and not your purse, with all negative income that would have been given in gold (due to being in the duchy) be given in bonds instead.

But even then...

[Foundation]

Huh?  Can you clarify?  You are suggesting that property/wealth taxes be taken from income in a general sense?

[egamma]

He is proposing an income tax, rather than a property tax.

[Foundation]

Um... okay... something that new should probably not be in a thread that says fix.

[egamma]

The only thing I'd support is property and wealth tax being deducted from income, and not your purse, with all negative income that would have been given in gold (due to being in the duchy) be given in bonds instead.

But even then...

Um... okay... something that new should probably not be in a thread that says fix.

Sorry, Foundation, I was saying that Chénier was advocating an income tax. Bael's original post was about tax ninjas in prison.

[vonGenf]

He is proposing an income tax, rather than a property tax.

That's not what I read. What I understand is exemplified in the following example (and Chénier, please correct me if I am wrong).

Suppose you have 500 gold and 500 bonds. Further suppose that at tax day, you should:

-Receive 50 pieces of gold of income
-Pay 100 gold and 100 bonds of taxes.

then what should happen is:

-Your bond total is reduced by 100 due to bond taxes
-Your gold income is entirely taken away by taxes, so you receive no income.
-The extra 50 gold you owe, however, cannot be taken by the bureaucrats without actually raiding your pocket. Instead, they instruct the bank to write off your bond for the remaining value.

At the end, you are left with 500 gold and 350 bond, instead of 450 gold and 400 bond as in the current system.

[Anaris]

And this would lead to people cashing out all their bonds for gold on tax day, so they would never have to pay the taxes.

No.

[vonGenf]

Note that in this scenario, you end up with zero income. You are still taxed on your gold, and you are still taxed the full amount.

However, it becomes actually possible to escape the taxman by fleeing halfway across the continent and never spending any of your money.