Player of Atanamirs account lock.

[jaune]

Good Day.
I noticed his account was locked and later heard on irc that he got permanent lock? And someone even pasted Titan reason for that.

Now i have known "Atanamir" for very long time and this shocks me greatly and i'm not that much convienced by the reasoning Titans gave.

I know Titan decisions are not for public discussion or open trials... but but... those reasons sounded so weird.

I dont remember anybody other than multicheaters got such punishment. I do know he is not the most easy or shy person to get along with. But permanent lock for player who has been playing 10 years this game. One of the greatest strategists, one who gets to be ruler or general time after time. He cant be that bad fellow if he leads for years armies and realms which have a LOT nobles. Not small realms ruled by bunch of close friends, but one of the biggest realms with biggest noble numbers.

If this opening is out of place and forbidden, i apologize... this all just shocks me and i'm eager to know whats behind all this?

Overall it would be nice to have announcement to every realm player is playing if his account gets locked.

* jaune wanders off shocked

[Lavigna]

Jaune,

i m so glad you made the first move because i was about to start a thread as well for the matter.

Many of you know me and Alex (aka Atanamir) are friends in real life and i don't mean two people who met once or two ,but actual friends.

It is a player that dedicated time and soul into this game for 10 years. Yes he is competitive, yes certain chars of his are power hungry and manipulating but he has also shown in many realms strong and loyal dedication
Rp wise i have fought valiantly near to his chars and i have dueled to the death another and won his head.
He is a very good player. He is a player that is either loved or hated and that happens to strong personalities.

Speaking as a player and an ex Magistrate, yes sometimes he becomes too stubborn and competitive but a permanent lock?
As Jaune said multi cheaters that were caught in action twice were not perm banned from the game.

I thought we were trying to expand the community, not weaken it.

I took a pause of over a year in the game and learned news only through my boyfriend and about his family. I came back to see the downfall of Darka and what i ve noticed so far in both irc and game is OOC crap.

People get accused as players because other players can't stand their chars. Well qq and run to your corner.That  "butthurt" type of playing is not my style and i m sure it is none of the old players's style.

Every damn in game message comes with an OOC crap tag and people get dragged into ooc disputes over nothing. I am pretty sure this is the case as well for Alex only in this case it was most convenient because Alex had actually already one verdict on his neck.

You do not permanent lock people who love this game and community, people who have dedicated a pretty long time in this game while you leave the game to be driven by ooc crap.

As Evi i vouch for Alex.

[m2rt]

I must say that I am angry at this decision. Its a tyrannical and ill motivated decision. I am aware that a certain developer has ill feelings towards Alex, but this is outrageous! You dont have to like everyone you play with, but people who bring the fun are our most valuable assets. Alex is a fun player. He allows others have fun and he is a great strategical player. Without him I would have quit few years ago. And seeing this tyrannical and ignorant decision of the Titans, I must reconsider if the fun is worth all the drama. I am very disappointed and am thinking that Battlemaster is destroying itself. There is a saying that all good things must end, lets not end battlemaster.

Also, if you lock the player, share the decision among all the realms he plays in!

I seriously ask the titans to reconsider. It is outrageous!

I will share some letters:

Titan Judgement   (17 hours, 24 minutes ago)
message to all nobles of Perdan
The Titans have issued a public verdict in the case against Alexandros Stavrou, the player of the of Umbar family. The text of their verdict follows:
Due to his long history of toxic behaviour, inability to separate IC from OOC, and paranoia resulting in his harassment of numerous players, his tendency to seek and hold prominent positions, and then use them to abuse other players who don't fit his rather specific standards of play, and his apparent refusal to mend his ways despite repeated warnings, Alexandros Stavrou, player of Atanamir and the family of Umbar, has been locked permanently.

Out-of-Character from Blythe Claireborne   (14 hours, 15 minutes ago)
Message sent to everyone in your realm (44 recipients)
Atanamir was in the first kingdom I joined in BM.

I came to Perdan because he was general, and I liked his style.  I still do.  He has devoted the last ten year's of his game time to BM.  For that, the Titans kick him. The Titans killed my in-game husband, my mentor, and my joy for the game.  I am deleting entire account.

I thank you all for the faith you put in me and apologize for the hardship my decision may cause.  You are a classy group of people.  Thank you, Aroo and Reapers, for accepting me into this kingdom.  Thank you, Nicoli, for being such as steadfast player, I like your style, my friend.  Atanamir (Yes, I call Alex that even on Skype)  sends you his best.  He said he was sorry he failed me, but he did not.  The game failed us.

I will delete once Blythe is inrealm, so that my absence does not cause bloodshed in Troyes.

Respectfully,


Susan Hutchinson

Noble has left   (1 hour, 40 minutes ago)
The player of Saul has left the game, the character is therefore deleted.

Noble has left   (1 hour, 40 minutes ago)
The player of Blythe has left the game, the character is therefore deleted.
A referendum will be started shortly to elect a new King.

[m2rt]

[Anaris]

Alex has been on very thin ice ever since he deliberately drove Dobromir's player out of the game, and nearly did the same to Deytheur.

Yes, he's been around nearly as long as I have. But when he becomes a cancer on the game, driving away more new players than he inspires old ones, it doesn't matter how long he's been here, just what he's doing now.

For some time now, Alex has clearly felt that it was his job to police the game for what he felt were people hurting the game. This is a noble motivation; however, he didn't do it in a particularly noble way. It started with Dobromir and Deytheur, whom he believed had begun a RL relationship. It doesn't matter whether it was true or not, because Alex didn't actually wait to find out whether it was true. He heard a rumour about it, and then he ran with it. He began spreading the news, not in the way it should have been spread—"Isn't it wonderful that BattleMaster can bring people together like this?"—but in the most twisted, paranoid, and petty way possible: "Well, you know this means that Eponllyn and Caligus will be locked in perma-alliance from now on, and you can never trust either of their characters not to tell everything to the other's characters anymore." He spread these rumours, and harassed both of them mercilessly, in-game and out, to the point that Dobromir's player left the game, and Deytheur's nearly did the same.

When he was brought up before the Magistrates for this egregious behaviour, he was all soft words and protestations of innocence. He only ever did it for the good of the game, and he would never, ever do such a thing again, etc. But his words rang false, and I'd seen this kind of thing from him before: when confronted with something that might make him look bad, he just plays the nice guy.

But it wasn't long before he was doing more of the same. Reporting suspected clans to the Titans is fine, but not when you send 4 or 5 reports within a week just to say, "Hey, why haven't you locked them all yet? I found them for you, that should be all the evidence you need!" (Not in those words, obviously, but that was the implication.) And then when the Titans didn't act fast enough to lock those he thought were clan members, he just made up bogus IC reasons to ban them from Perdan—and some of the reasons weren't even IC.

The most recent incident was the last straw. Miriam, whom I know both of you know from IRC, and I think it's absolutely clear she would never knowingly abuse a bug in any way, had a character move into a region where Alex thought she should have sparked a battle. He immediately took to the airwaves, broadcasting all across the EC that anyone who dared to move into that region now would be obviously exploiting a bug, and thus abusing the game (due to the fact that there should have been a battle, thus giving someone-or-other an advantage they shouldn't have had).

There are three major things wrong with this.

First is that while he did not explicitly say so, it was very clear that his intent was absolutely to threaten a Titan report against people, which is explicitly forbidden.

Second is that for the vast majority of bugs, such as a battle not occurring in a region and potentially giving an advantage to one side in a war, Tom's advice has always been to simply play through it. Only in the case of obvious loopholes, like if a method were discovered to buy a region without having to spend thousands of gold, or to drain your family gold down to nothing with one character in the space of a day, is the rule not to exploit the bugs. And yes, this is a subjective standard, but it's not an especially difficult one to follow.

Third, and most importantly, is that this was not even a bug. The situation at the time Miriam moved into the region was such that it was absolutely correct by the game's logic for there not to be a battle there.

In the end, though, the problem is that Alex believes himself to be not only above the law, but to be the enforcer of the law, when he is not a Titan, is not anyone appointed by any official in the game to uphold its rules, and does not even fully understand those rules in the first place. Not only that, but he has a long history of filing Titan reports against a wide variety of people in realms that oppose him in wars, for absurd and trivial things.

If Alexandros had shown the slightest sign that he understood that his behaviour was bad, and was willing to try to change it, we would have been willing to give him that chance.

He did not.

He kept it up, and showed not the slightest iota of remorse. When removed from rulership, he immediately took the General position, and abused it to continue his vigilante justice.

TL;DR: Alexandros was removed from the game because he has shown a long history of toxic behaviour that has driven a number of people we know about out of the game, and certainly many others we don't. He was given multiple warnings that what he was doing was bad, and showed no sign of actually understanding or believing that. So in order to prevent him from causing far, far more trouble than he's worth, he has been removed.

[jaune]

* jaune is even more shocked

[jaune]

I will comment more later... I understand the first part of the message, which was already dealt... but the actual banishment from the game reason just... well. For thinking there is a bug and telling not to abuse it?

I'd better keep my mouth shut...

[Anaris]

I will comment more later... I understand the first part of the message, which was already dealt... but the actual banishment from the game reason just... well. For thinking there is a bug and telling not to abuse it?

I'd better keep my mouth shut...

To be quite clear, the banishment is not for this one issue. It is for the pattern of negative behaviour, of which this was simply the latest instance.

It's like hitting a rope a lot of times with a sword. The last cut is the one that severs the rope, but it's not the whole reason the rope broke.

[Lavigna]

All i see is that in 10 years of playing Perdan took him down because he was so into it as a realm.

I still believe it is a very bad decision and nothing i would expect from the Titans, it is obvious the root of the problem against others was that character and you could have bolted him out and keep the player.

He was a great player and you people make him look like a monster.

[Anaris]

I still believe it is a very bad decision and nothing i would expect from the Titans, it is obvious the root of the problem against others was that character and you could have bolted him out and keep the player.

Except that all this stuff was OOC. That makes it the player.

Do you really think that if Atanamir the character was killed, he wouldn't just make a new character in Perdan within a week? And work his way up with it very quickly?

[jaune]

I kind of understand this.

But has he ever have problems outside East Continent? Would it been enough to banish him from there?

Cause somehow this seems to be still character based situation. There has not been such problems when he has been general of Darka for multiple times along the years. I have not heard problems from Minas Leon either?

Could it be that there is so much OOC poop going on EC that it drives people mad(including Atanamir?).

[Fleugs]

I don't know Atanamir in real life, but I know of his (many) antics towards other players in the past, and this ban does not surprise me at all. If anything it could have come sooner and saved us from more grief.

That people are supposedly leaving the game because of this ban is sad, but it goes to show that perhaps they did not know what it was like to not be in Atanamir's good graces.

[Lavigna]

That people are supposedly leaving the game because of this ban is sad, but it goes to show that perhaps they did not know what it was like to not be in Atanamir's good graces.

Pretty pathetic to say something like that Simon.

[Velax]

Moderator note: Keep it civil or the thread will get locked.

[Lavigna]

Except that all this stuff was OOC. That makes it the player.

Do you really think that if Atanamir the character was killed, he wouldn't just make a new character in Perdan within a week? And work his way up with it very quickly?

You could have forbid him to play there, or receive position. A titans decision that he should have just abide with.

Do remember it was the realm electing him though. Perdan does worshiped his chars, it was his many enemies who hated him :P

weird it kept happening only in Perdan isn't it?  The Titans judged 10 years of gaming over a Realm and a char. That's all i know.