Author Topic: Player of Atanamirs account lock.  (Read 39602 times)

Anaris

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Re: Player of Atanamirs account lock.
« Reply #15: June 24, 2014, 03:27:43 PM »
You could have forbid him to play there, or receive position. A titans decision that he should have just abide with.

Do remember it was the realm electing him though. Perdan does worshiped his chars, it was his many enemies who hated him :P

And I'm neither in Perdan, nor Perdan's enemy. I don't care about Perdan one way or another. What I care about is the game, and the health of the game.

I've seen this pattern a dozen times before: a well-liked player in a realm takes an action that the realm supports, but that is clearly against the rules. The player gets punished. The realm complains, and as soon as they can, they re-elect that player to whatever positions he held before.

In this case, there's less of a single clear rulebreaking, and more of a long history of negative behaviour, but that doesn't change the basic pattern. Popularity is not a defense against rulebreaking.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Indirik

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Re: Player of Atanamirs account lock.
« Reply #16: June 24, 2014, 04:10:42 PM »
I will just say a few things about this case, and then I'm stepping out of this one, unless someone has specific, individual questions.

First, Tom's direction on this whole affair dates back to the Dobromir Magistrate's investigation. At that point in time, the decision was: "One more chance, and then he's gone."

That was three chances ago.

All cases were once again related to, among others: harassment of players, unfounded accusations of cheating and abuses, and IC actions based on OOC justifications. There were a few more that were borderline cases and were dismissed as being issues that should be handled IC. These are not a case of an OOC campaign by some particular person to smear and defame Alex. This was a long series of complaints from a wide range of other players.

One important thing to remember here is that this has nothing to do with IC behavior, RP, or actions taken by any character. Tom, the dev team, and the Titans understand that characters are allowed to be nasty, mean, plotting, scheming, self-righteous, downright evil, etc. (These are not specifically aimed Alexandros' characters, just a list of villain traits....) Mean and nasty characters are practically a requirement for the game to run properly. Every self-proclaimed hero needs a villain against which to struggle. This final judgment has to do solely with the actions of the player involved, and not the behavior of the characters.

In regards to this most recent event: This is not a matter of "... thinking there is a bug and telling not to abuse it ..." There are ways, and then there are ways. "Hey I think there's a bug, and we should be careful about it" is cool. But that's not what happened. What happened is this: "I am sure you noticed as well, but obviously you have decided to abuse this attack." (Yes, that is a direct quote from the very first message sent to the ruler's channel about it.) That's not a friendly reminder or notification of a possible bug. It's a blatant accusation of bug abuse. It's also completely wrong, and based on Alexandros' misunderstanding of game mechanics. The ensuing OOC argument that was started by this knee-jerk accusation of bug abuse just got worse.

The other events that lead to this final judgment are not secret. I'm sure that any of the players in Perdan can attest to the several OOC explosions, accusations, and a few more Titan's actions against Alexandros in the recent past, include position removal and temporary locks.

This final action was not taken without any warning. Alexandros was given at least two private warnings that if his behavior did not change, then this action would be taken. His continued behavior and refusal to change it is the direct cause of the actions taken against him. He had the opportunity to change his attitude and actions, and chose not to do so.

I personally understand that Alexandros did not act the way he did out of a desire to harm the game, or ruin the play experience of other people. The first two times this happened following the Dobromir case, I argued in his favor, believing that the circumstances and actions of other players were more at fault than Alexandros. However, the latest occurrence demonstrates a pattern of behavior that cannot be denied.

You can enjoy doing something very much, and still behave in such a way that causes harm.

As to whether or not Alexandros will be allowed to come back to the game, should he desire to do so at some time in the future, that is a matter that he will have to address personally with Anaris and Tom. Many people who have had their accounts locked in the past have been allowed to return by starting a new account.
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Thorryworry

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Re: Player of Atanamirs account lock.
« Reply #17: June 24, 2014, 07:02:58 PM »
I'm glad we got some more news on the decision yet i find it harsh to get a permanent lock. Would a lock for 30 days be more off a warning. I think in the case of a permanent lock there should always be an explanation about such decision,no ? It might have reconcidered the deleted player of the King of Perdan to actually deleting on old account.

My memory isn't that good but when was the player locked for a few days? I've noticed the removal of position but not of a short lock.

Anaris

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Re: Player of Atanamirs account lock.
« Reply #18: June 24, 2014, 07:06:11 PM »
I'm glad we got some more news on the decision yet i find it harsh to get a permanent lock. Would a lock for 30 days be more off a warning. I think in the case of a permanent lock there should always be an explanation about such decision,no ? It might have reconcidered the deleted player of the King of Perdan to actually deleting on old account.

My memory isn't that good but when was the player locked for a few days? I've noticed the removal of position but not of a short lock.

He was locked for 3 days about a month ago.

He was also given a warning, and told that it would be his final warning.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Indirik

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Re: Player of Atanamirs account lock.
« Reply #19: June 24, 2014, 07:09:37 PM »
My memory isn't that good but when was the player locked for a few days? I've noticed the removal of position but not of a short lock.
I don't really know off-hand. I could look up the exact dates, if it were relevant. It would have been at the same time as the position removals.
If at first you don't succeed, don't take up skydiving.

Zakilevo

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Re: Player of Atanamirs account lock.
« Reply #20: June 24, 2014, 07:42:52 PM »
He was removed from all positions and was told not to become the ruler again for 14 days.

I believe titans expected him to know what he did wrong and refrain himself for awhile by taking it easy but instead as soon as he got off the lock, he tried to go around the punishment by getting himself appointed as general and did exactly the same thing he did the last time, threatening people yet again. Obviously he didn't learn his lessons from soft warnings. I think this permanent lock was a good decision from the titans showing him they are not joking around.

m2rt

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Re: Player of Atanamirs account lock.
« Reply #21: June 24, 2014, 07:46:53 PM »
Out-of-Character from Gurgulithras Tzirimuschul   (29 minutes ago)
Message sent to everyone in your realm (42 recipients)
I used to play BM a long time ago. Some ancient players may remember Shadow Thief in Oligarch and Perdan.
I quit because of massive OOC crap like this. I think I will do the same now.
Dennis B.


Noble has left   (27 minutes ago)
The player of Gurgulithras has left the game, the character is therefore deleted.

m2rt

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Re: Player of Atanamirs account lock.
« Reply #22: June 24, 2014, 07:51:16 PM »
if its not about Perdan then please remove his characters from other realms too! I have a locked out General, kind of idiotic.

vonGenf

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Re: Player of Atanamirs account lock.
« Reply #23: June 24, 2014, 08:02:41 PM »
if its not about Perdan then please remove his characters from other realms too! I have a locked out General, kind of idiotic.

Since we know about the permanent lock, I think an OOC ban to free the position before the inactivity kicks the character would not be abuse. You may want to run this by a dev before to make sure but it seems like the best technical solution to me.
After all it's a roleplaying game.

Anaris

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Re: Player of Atanamirs account lock.
« Reply #24: June 24, 2014, 08:04:35 PM »
Since we know about the permanent lock, I think an OOC ban to free the position before the inactivity kicks the character would not be abuse. You may want to run this by a dev before to make sure but it seems like the best technical solution to me.

The OOC ban has been disabled.

I'm working on a little script to pause all the characters of a locked player. I should have it ready to fire within the hour, if all goes well.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

m2rt

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Re: Player of Atanamirs account lock.
« Reply #25: June 24, 2014, 08:06:39 PM »
TItans, read the ooc messages in Perdan please.

Blue Star

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Re: Player of Atanamirs account lock.
« Reply #26: June 24, 2014, 08:17:47 PM »
Glad Evi, Jaune and Nigel here,

I'm not one to just defend anyone and I know Alex(Umbar) actions were in fact a out of hand we players did attempt to settle him. I at least. He's one of the few reasons I returned after well hibernating. We're his issues outside of EI? I never saw them and in fact I don't think anyone else did to my knowledge though it is limited.

I do know Tom and Tim don't pass such judgement so easily but to Umbar I'm surprised. He's been around since we were young and he was just a sprite then. Now after 10 years to see him go mm. Do by and him had issue but to be honest  it was not all one of their faults.

I'm just shocked geez the dudes half the reason EI is even still entertaining and now Perdan players inspiration taken from them by OOC means... guess that'll wrap things up.

*Looks at the glacier, as it keeps moving north to swallow the continent*
I think like a sinner. Curse like a sailor. Smile like a saint. :)

Zakilevo

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Re: Player of Atanamirs account lock.
« Reply #27: June 24, 2014, 08:25:22 PM »
I am sure many people enjoyed playing with him. But people who played against him well I doubt they would say the same thing. It would have been nice if he could keep things all IC but he just kept taking things OoCly. I think he took the game way too seriously. It is always sad to see players go especially the old ones.

Lavigna

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Re: Player of Atanamirs account lock.
« Reply #28: June 24, 2014, 08:54:42 PM »
It is obvious that this won't change a thing to the Titans's decision since they had a white paper signed from Tom for it.It is after all his game and we happen to play it so i respect it.

When having though a game you play by yourself the rules can be as strict, when playing among other people and trying to create aside the game a strong community you cannot underestimate the human factor.

We are grown upw playing a game that involves strategy and occasionally role play.It is a competitive game and the role playing is there to light it up but there are certain black holes in this game, certain continents and realms that constantly" throw up" issues of ooc, multi cheating, whining and the constant need of titans to view upon them. It is EC.It is a fact. I actually voted for EC to sink :P

Alex was a passionate player since day one. 10 years and none of it ever changed, he was playing this game as he was playing it back then, always thirsty for something. I remember him pissing people off in many realms, he surely pissed off 3 of my chars so far but he was always doing it in game, he was excellent in strategy and active enough to make things happen.
I ve never saw him play as enthusiastically as he was playing in Perdan in any other realm, ever. Darka had a 3 front war  for example and he couldn't care less and he was General there too.Yes he was addicted to Perdan.

When you judge an old player like him, that never paused, never stopped playing the game and realize that all this hate comes from one continent and are made for the same char well you notice the "disease" and cut it right off :P You don't just command kill the player

For future reference that is my opinion and i believe i do well in expressing it since this is an irreversible and fatal decision for any player and i hate to see people leave the game for ever.
Suck my socks! I kill for Darka! -KK-

flames

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Re: Player of Atanamirs account lock.
« Reply #29: June 24, 2014, 09:51:21 PM »
I am sure many people enjoyed playing with him. But people who played against him well I doubt they would say the same thing.
Why, we actually exchanged some nice threats with him when we were fighting in Bescanon, was fun.

While his recent OOC message was both insulting and confusing, I am sad that he leaves - Atanamir was an interesting enemy.

(My char is general of Eponllyn)