Border Raids

[Constantine]

Any unit or group of units can launch a raid into a neighbouring province. Province in question has to belong to a different realm, but not necessarily a hostile one.
Raider unit doesn't actually move into enemy province. It raids close to the border and returns back promptly.
Raiding party can only be intercepted by mobile troops, not militia.
Due to the swift nature of raids, scouting can not discern if the party is about to raid next turn. Maybe infiltrators might have that ability.
Raiders can either damage infrastucture (but not destroy, I guess) or loot gold/grain.

Why?
1. Gives non-landed knights stuff to do when there is no open war.
2. Potentially increases tension between neighbouring states which might lead to more wars or political drama.
3. Generally keeps people on their toes and introduces the phenomena of tumultuous borderlands.

[Eldargard]

As much as i like he idea of border raids I think that introducing the mechanic as you describe will simply result in a new line being added to the Judge's Bulletin: "No Borer Raids unless ordered to do so." Unfortunately, I can not think of a better way.

[Anaris]

This mechanic already exists.

Step 1: Take troops across the border.
Step 2: Raid.

It sounds like you want a way of attacking a region without ever setting foot in that region. That will not happen. If you want to conduct any kind of raid on a region, you have to actually go there.

[Constantine]

This mechanic already exists.

Step 1: Take troops across the border.
Step 2: Raid.

It sounds like you want a way of attacking a region without ever setting foot in that region. That will not happen. If you want to conduct any kind of raid on a region, you have to actually go there.

No and no.
It's not about attacking with an advantage. It's about having stuff to do when there is no war and you are just a young landless knight with nothing at all to do. It's also about promoting conflict which certain isles seem to bitterly lack.
There are certain realms that can go for months without a military clash and that's the only way for a newb to gain prestige and honour.
There are certain realms that cram border provinces with a thousand men strong militia and never approach a border. I don't even know how they entertain themselves. There is no way you can attack that without an entire realm (or two) marching in. If there will be a way for a handful of knights to sew some mayhem, that would certainly be great. BTW, that will also require those senile realms to patrol their borders at least, so they won't die from boredom.

Now to address your concern, I can rethink the mechanics. For example, we could add "raiding party" to army type designations. You would still need to travel to the province you want to raid, but while your troops are a raiding party, they evade militia and can only be engaged by mobile troops on arrival. They can also only loot/damage and can not do more lasting damage or take over.

[Eldargard]

I think the idea is that the knight selects targets that are "border line"  and can not be clearly defined as being in the enemy realm or not.

Other Land: "You attacked a farm of our land! You are a bandit and a raider!"
Our Knight "I most certainly did not. That farm is within our borders and has neglected to pay taxes for way too long. I was merely enforcing our rights over our land!"

And so on...

However, I am in agreement with Anaris, current mechanics are enough. Move in, loot, then move out. If their are complaints give them your prepared excuse:

"That farm was within our borders and has failed to pay their tax for too long. It was time justice was served. What message does it send to out peasants if one of them can get away with not paying their dues? Furthermore, I can not be held responsible if OtherLand believes this farm falls within their borders. My staff has assured me these outlaws reside on our land!"

Sure, regions with lots of troops or militia are not good targets for raids but that just makes sense...

[Constantine]

Okay, they say three is a charm so I'll try to convey the actual reason behind this suggestion once again (last time, I promise).

Devs seem to be concerned with realm density. But landless knights have strictly less fun than regions lords. Oftentimes they have nothing to do at all except sitting in the capital and spamming skill training.
You can encourage people to adhere to a certain model of behaviour via whip or candy. Monster invasions are a whip. They piss people off, make them leave and after a short time situation just tends to revert to what it was before the invasion anyway. My idea is a candy, it gives landless knights incentive to stay as such, because they can have a bit of fun without being involved in  province management or grand strategy. We need more such mechanics that are available to knights and especially newbie knights. Agreed?
A band of several knights has no business attacking a border region because militia is just too numerous. Not to mention mere knights are not supposed to make decisions concerning starting wars, which makes sense. But if they can have some options to steer the pot and engage in some raubritter activity on a smaller scale - everyone wins.
Am I wrong?

[De-Legro]

Okay, they say three is a charm so I'll try to convey the actual reason behind this suggestion once again (last time, I promise).

Devs seem to be concerned with realm density. But landless knights have strictly less fun than regions lords. Oftentimes they have nothing to do at all except sitting in the capital and spamming skill training.
You can encourage people to adhere to a certain model of behaviour via whip or candy. Monster invasions are a whip. They piss people off, make them leave and after a short time situation just tends to revert to what it was before the invasion anyway. My idea is a candy, it gives landless knights incentive to stay as such, because they can have a bit of fun without being involved in  province management or grand strategy. We need more such mechanics that are available to knights and especially newbie knights. Agreed?
A band of several knights has no business attacking a border region because militia is just too numerous. Not to mention mere knights are not supposed to make decisions concerning starting wars, which makes sense. But if they can have some options to steer the pot and engage in some raubritter activity on a smaller scale - everyone wins.
Am I wrong?

What realm has militia in every single border town? My problem with this is simple

• Knights can currently loot - IE raid
• The only difference I can see with this new mechanic is that it presents no risk to the knight, and requires no movement

Trouble is trouble. If going out and looting border towns is seen as a war act, why would you think that players/realms aren't going to see border raiding as war acts and clamp down on it just as hard?

[Constantine]

You didn't pay attention.
In the second variant the knight actually has to move. And there is risk - enemy mobile troops can actually intercept you. But I can see that this suggestion still has serious issues.

I've pinpointed a problem - newbie landless knights have nothing to do in stagnant realms. I'm trying to find a solution. This is basically just brainstorming so far.

[De-Legro]

You didn't pay attention.
In the second variant the knight actually has to move. And there is risk - enemy mobile troops can actually intercept you. But I can see that this suggestion still has serious issues.

I've pinpointed a problem - newbie landless knights have nothing to do in stagnant realms. I'm trying to find a solution. This is basically just brainstorming so far.

The solution is to play in a non stagnant realm and let the stagnant realm die, hopefully to be replaced by something with some life in it.

[Anaris]

I've pinpointed a problem - newbie landless knights have nothing to do in stagnant realms. I'm trying to find a solution. This is basically just brainstorming so far.

This is good to do. However, this particular idea is not, I think, a helpful one.

Most knights aren't going to want to use a mechanic that is inherently designed to be disruptive to the political status quo. Those who do are likely to get themselves banned double-quick. And if we make it so it's difficult or impossible for the higher-ups within the realm to detect, that's just going to cause all kinds of anger and frustration, and rightly so. (And if we make it impossible for people on either side to detect, it's just going to fail to cause any kind of political disruption and make the people in the other realm really, really mad when they find out that some of their border regions are mysteriously in crap shape!)

When doing your brainstorming, keep this in mind, Constantine: Most knights, especially those who are likely to stay knights their entire time in the game, don't want to be causing trouble. They want options that will let them help their realm, not screw things up for it.

[Andre]

So a bit off topic. But why not just make it so that peasants would start complaining more and more and more the longer you were at peace, and it would be harsher the bigger you were. So that small realms that cant attack anything wont lose everything they have, atleast not nearly as fast.
And maybe some bonuses to peasants for winning a war? Like a bit extra production for winning a war. And not wars where you declare war and then peace out imediatly, like it would have to last some while.
This way everyone would be like norse in CK 2 :P
Tho there can easily become problems where a realm really cant attack anything and just becomes weaker and weaker the longer goes on.

[vonGenf]

So a bit off topic. But why not just make it so that peasants would start complaining more and more and more the longer you were at peace, and it would be harsher the bigger you were. So that small realms that cant attack anything wont lose everything they have, atleast not nearly as fast.

That was tried before. The issue, in a nutshell, was that the longer you were at peace, the hardest it would be to keep your realm together. This lead to increasing number of nobles being needed for courtier and diplomat work, loss of border regions and decreased taxes, reducing the army size.... and reducing the capability to wage war in the first place. Realms were stuck in endless spirals of peace.

[Anaris]

So a bit off topic. But why not just make it so that peasants would start complaining more and more and more the longer you were at peace, and it would be harsher the bigger you were. So that small realms that cant attack anything wont lose everything they have, atleast not nearly as fast.

Because we used to do this, and it's one of the things that nearly killed the game.

[De-Legro]

The mere mention of "Too much peace" is enough to bring hardened warriors to their knees