Ryu, Atanamir, now Erik... good guy BM!

[Eduardo Almighty]

99% of the people who break the game's rules don't do it with the intention to hurt the game. They do it because they think it's what's best for their realm, or for their character.

I'm not 99%. I'm one and my case is my case. I didn't it because I felt it's best for the realm or the character, but because of his behavior. OK. I failed and I apologize for that. I'm still angry.

I understand it's comforting to think of it in those terms—that this was purely a power-play by someone who dislikes your character—but I'm afraid that just doesn't wash. You've been in the game far too long not to know better.

Not, it's not comforting at all. But who really cares? I just want to be sure now if Erik can be reappointed as Duke once again or if that will be considered a placholder as well, since I (the player) was punished. If this is the case, there's little or nothing to do...

[Stabbity]

If nobody is appointed to the position during your absence, it will not violate the placeholder rule if you receive it back. I don't think you'll even lose it unless your positions were stripped too.

[Eduardo Almighty]

That was...

[Anaris]

I just want to be sure now if Erik can be reappointed as Duke once again or if that will be considered a placholder as well, since I (the player) was punished. If this is the case, there's little or nothing to do...

As with most people removed from positions due to breaking rules, he is prohibited from seeking the position again for a while—in this case, 30 days, which is exactly the same as the other character who recently broke the placeholder rule (a case which we will be writing up a summary of for the Wiki shortly).

If the person who takes the position of Duke of Avamar in the interim states that he is doing so in order to hold it for your return, he will find himself removed from it as well. If he doesn't, but still steps down as soon as your 30 days are up and you are immediately reappointed...well, let's say that we'll certainly be looking at that very hard.

If you're only interested in remaining in the game if that one character of yours can be Duke of Avamar forever, then I'm afraid we're going to have a problem with you anyway. No one character is ever entitled to retain a given position, no matter how long or hard they worked for it, no matter how long they've held it, no matter how big a tantrum they throw if it's taken away from them. If that policy means that we're going to lose most of our long-time players...well, then, that probably means that BattleMaster deserves to fail, if it's only managed to attract spoiled, entitled, immature people like that to stay.

Life is change. If you can't accept any change in the status of any given character without it ruining your BattleMaster experience entirely, then I'm afraid you've let the lines between IC and OOC blur too much. I recently retired a character I created in the spring of 2004, who had been a Duchess for a long time. Now someone else holds her positions. Earlier, I retired Delvin, who had ruled Riombara (on and off) for years. These were hard decisions, because the characters had a lot of history, but I never, ever want to be someone who holds a position just to hold onto it, without using that position to contribute fun and energy. That is one of the things that is most damaging to the game.

[Eduardo Almighty]

You're fast to judge unh!?

[Anaris]

You're fast to judge unh!?

If you'll note, I qualified my judgements with "if you're only..."

I do not know your mind. If that is not, in fact, the way you feel, then those words do not apply to you.

However, I will not hold back from stating my belief that people who feel and act that way are harming the game by it.

[Eduardo Almighty]

That was to know the rules to avoid break them again. Thanks for the answer, that was what I was seeking, not a judge based on "If you're only..."

You know, I must think what I will do with the character if I decide to stay and continue improving the game without stupid mistakes as the last one.

[Zakilevo]

They say passion works in both ways :o

Eduardo, I am sure Sirion will find a quick replacement for Erik mwuaahahahah Okay jokes aside, why don't you talk to Ecthelion after you return? He is after all the only one with enough power to appoint people around. Or maybe Erik can finally give his son the ducal seat instead of hugging it forever like Ecthelion.

[Eduardo Almighty]

I'm sure they will. And while you gave me an alternative I already thought about, I think that would be lame on my part to recover the position... and that would be seen as another way to circumvent the rules.

[Anaris]

I'm sure they will. And while you gave me an alternative I already thought about, I think that would be lame on my part to recover the position... and that would be seen as another way to circumvent the rules.

This is where we get into a little bit of a grey area:

After the 30 days are up, it's not forbidden for Erik to seek to regain his position. However, if he is given it back immediately after the 30 days are up, that would certainly be viewed with suspicion—not enough to result in another Titan judgement against him or the ruler, I would say, but enough to make the Titans less likely to be lenient if Erik were ever reported for something else in a case that was less than fully clear.

Unfortunately, it's mostly a matter of intent, which is something only you can truly know for sure, so the Titans need to attempt to determine intent from words and actions.

[Eduardo Almighty]

Unfortunately, it's mostly a matter of intent, which is something only you can truly know for sure, so the Titans need to attempt to determine intent from words and actions.

Then you make judgments based on guesses!? Great. Because of that I prefer the Magistrates instead of the Titans. You don't care with intents or the entire situation, but to punish and hopes the people will understand their fault instead of be pissed off and leave the game because of it.

PS: I understand I broke the rule... and was punished for that. But when you talk about try to guess the intents... this is NUTS.

[Zakilevo]

I assume they don't just guess. They probably check more than that.

[Indirik]

Huh? Eduardo, You totally misunderstood what he said.

[Eduardo Almighty]

That's ok.... after some beers, Erik will return, run for Judge until he win and banish the actual Judge... if that is not against the rules as well. Maybe get her Duchy instead of Avamar.

[Anaris]

Then you make judgments based on guesses!? Great.

<sarcasm>Why, yes, I just totally randomly guess whether your intent breaks the rule or not.</sarcasm>

Don't be silly. It's not guesses—it's based on reading the messages and looking at the actions of the people, combined with whatever general knowledge of their personalities we have, and coming to a consensus and conclusion based on all this information.

The Magistrates did exactly the same thing, I promise you. They were enforcing exactly the same rules the Titans are, after all, and none of them were any more psychic than I am (or if they are, none of them ever let on!).

If you see careful consideration of a person's history, words, and actions, and drawing conclusions based on that, as being the same thing as "guesses"...well, then, I'm afraid you're never going to be happy with some of BattleMaster's rules.

However, I would remind you that this is all regarding the hypothetical situation of Erik being given his position back some time after the 30-day limit expires, not his removal from the position. That was all based on very clear evidence of word and action, not guessing or fuzzy educated guesses or anything of the sort regarding intent.