Luria Nova vs the rest (bis)

[Shizzle]

Hey guys. In Fissoa there was a bit of discussion going on today on the current conflict. Many players feel the war doesn't provide any entertainment or inspiration, and some are even frustrated by how things are developing on an OOC level. Claims of unfair advantages in Luria Nova become more frequent, and though they might be unfounded, they express a very real disappointment in what is happening at the moment. I also have to admit the whole conflict has been the most boring I have been in in BM, though that's also because Skyndarbau is old and slow nowadays. And how are things for players in Swordfell, Morek, D'Hara, ...?

Anyways,
I was wondering if players in Luria Nova feel the same way. Are you enjoying this war? Does it provide interesting storylines, fun battles or memorable events? Of course the whole LN vs the World is more interesting than Fissoa's 'let's try for weeks to get a joint strike coordinated and then travel for a week with no result', but still - I am genuinly curious.

Consider this to be an open question to create some new dynamics. Feel free to contact me IG through IC or OOC means if you want to set something up.  If nothing changes, I fear half of Fissoa's nobles will leave the realm or worse the game at some point, so if the same is happening in other realms, now seems a good time to take action.

[Zakilevo]

It is always fun to smash enemies who are disorganized. Also, enemies come to Luria's door not the other way around. When your enemies show up to be smashed, things always feel awesome 8)

[Shizzle]

It is always fun to smash enemies who are disorganized. Also, enemies come to Luria's door not the other way around. When your enemies show up to be smashed, things always feel awesome 8)

With Barca gone at least Luria will be a little close to Fissoa... Still I feel this ordeal would have been a lot more interesting if Barca had managed to gain Shinnen as a bridgehead.

[Lorgan]

I was just writing a rant in another threat but it'd fit better here. So:

<rant>
...
Which brings me to moving on: the idea that Luria will remain the behemoth it is now without the whole world ganging up on us is doubly stupid. We've got factions in our realm, not in the least factions who want their own realm. All you're doing with your continued invasion is uniting the factions of a historically divisive realm and melting the foreign elements together with real Lurian factions. Luria has about the best geography on the continent, it can't be denied, but it's also very isolated from everyone else if they leave us alone. Imagine Luria fighting aggressive wars, we've got exactly the same issues you're all dealing with.
So, if you want more fun, in stead of trying to get us to just give up stuff for no sane reason, how about you get creative and look for other things to do? Maybe strike a pact with the so-called evil Empire that goes beyond "we want your land for our friends despite having plenty ourselves and not being capable of taking yours as was our first impulse".
Luria's population will thin out given the opportunity to create new realms. Yes, your realm may be the victim of such a colonization but isn't more realms in empty spaces and a weaker Luria exactly what everybody wants?
</rant>

[Lorgan]

Now to answer your actual question. Yes, the war is fun in Luria. I'm constantly traveling between Poryatown and Shinnen defending my realm from Morek's invaders and defending/pushing back all the rest around Barca's stronghold. Yes, with Aveston lost you've lost that safe entry point and I imagine that without being able to go on the aggressive for constant fear of invasion and just endlessly beating back those invaders, the war will become less interesting for Luria as well.
What I don't get however are the OOC complaints about the war not being fun in combination with the stubborn IC mentality of sticking to your standpoint and refusing to do anything about it. Your characters have now experienced Luria's isolation firsthand, maybe that'd give them reason to be less afraid of the imperialists and get them thinking about signing a favorable peace with the Empire in stead of feverishly sticking to the all vs one pact you got going. Or whatever else you can cook up. Be creative. Do something else.

[Shizzle]

Good points, though I don't understand where the bile is coming from. I'm not your opponent in this issue. The only thing that worries me would be seeing Luria Nova fragment into smaller pieces, but still being a close-knit Empire on a higher level. We've seen Luria Vesperi and Solaria, and from my point of view the only difference between those and one large realm was that there were suddenly 3 capitals under one ruler. I'm not interested in seeing LN split up in name and form a federation instead with the same goals and interests.

Still, Luria Nova is the elephant in the room. As long as the behemoth stands, none of the other realms can ignore it. The only things that will really change what is happening are

1 Luria fragments itself somehow so the conflict can depolarise. One fragment fights Fissoa, another D'Hara or Morek etc. creating a more dynamic scene for diplomatic development

2 Crazily enough the allied forces somehow forget about Luria Nova in their backyard and persue other goals (say recolonising the West or attacking another ally). But then what? All Luria Nova will do is pile onto D'Hara or Fissoa, or disband into three realms which will then pile onto D'Hara or Fissoa together, as has happened in the past.

I'll see what I can cook up from my end. Is there any possibility of Fissoa and parts of Luria allying against a common enemy like SA? Will the Order of the White Rose offer a viable cooperation between Lurian and Fissoan nobles to go from, without becoming a Lurian puppet itself?

Basically the allies cannot afford to continue the war. But they cannot afford to not continue, either. Either way, I feel Luria has the key to unlock this mess.

[Eldargard]

I am having fun on the Lurian side. When I joined up I was expecting Luria to lose (I only knew itwas everyone against Luria and that is usualy a losing proposition) and was a bit disappointed at how evenly matched things were. I love playing in a dying realm. I almost switched to Barca a little while ago but could not think if a good IC reason for my character to switch. He is too damn loyal right now. And now Barca is all but dead.

At the same time, I have somewhat come to appreciate the seeming balance. So far Dwilight has been seeing a lot of battles. There have been times in which I was confident Luria would hold it's own and there have been times when I was sure Luria was doomed. As long as the balance stays the battles can continue. As soon as one side "wins" then comes the dreaded peace...

[Constantine]

I am secretly hoping that all the refugee nobles in Luria will finally realize they'll never be granted an independent realm and start a rebellion/bite a chunk off of Morek/go back to Maroccidens on a glorious Reconquista! >:]

[Lorgan]

Well, the forum is a public space, and the latest news that reached me from Fissoa was an OOC argument that the war was no fun because you're losing and /Luria/ should do something about it. That kind of thinking got me riled up a little. Especially since throughout these last months Luria has NOT been sending harsh peace terms to anyone. And those that were sent fell on deaf ears. And still somehow it's our fault that you're stuck in a no-fun war that we're actually trying not to keep you stuck in.

So yes, you're all feeling threatened by Luria. However as I've explained, the behemoth you fear is one you are sustaining.
Besides, when is the last time that Luria declared war on Fissoa? The last aggressive intent shown towards you was years back when you got involved in our civil war, were beaten and accepted a few terms, which were later softened, evidenced by Skyndarbau's remaining presence in Fissoa. That was the last sign that we'd wish to militarily force your inclusion in our designs.
What about Morek? They are the behemoth fighting the behemoth preemptively.
Astrum? Just helping their ally because they've got nothing else to do.
The only realm on Dwilight with actual reason to fear for their lives in the face of this behemoth that is Luria is D'Hara. So kudos to them for convincing everyone else to fight for them.
Even Barca was offered ways out, obviously not by remaining in lands that are historical Lurian.

I'm not saying Luria will split up in smaller realms inside our territory. We did it before and it didn't really work very well. A realm like LV had literally no prospect. Turning against Luria was a dead-sentence and everything else was too far away to touch with their resources. It's basically the position Barca would've been in had they succeeded in taking Shinnen. However that's not at all what I meant with being a divisive realm. Thanks to our isolation, there's not many other options than to have conflicts between ourselves. Just not when we're under attack by the entire continent and got actual reasons to unite.

The point is, Luria is not a threat to EVERYONE. Give us space to colonize, and we will. Sign peace with us and we won't colonize your lands. The whole reason Luria is as strong as it is now is because of all the nobles in it, if we were not attacked by the entire continent, we wouldn't want to keep all those nobles in our realm. Maybe more importantly, not all those nobles would want to stay. The threat would be relieved.
Yes, Luria would remain close to an impenetrable fortress as it has always been but our offensive punch would be strongly diminished. Sure, we could still show up with 15-20k every 3 weeks in Fissoa if we really wanted to, but is that going to bring down your realm? I strongly doubt it. And if we did so, it'd leave big gaping holes in that so-called impenetrable fortress.

Of course, if you ally with the whole continent and then don't want to break any alliances forcing you to keep fighting us... then you'll just have to win to get what you want.

[Constantine]

Hey! This is an OOC thread so get out of character. :D
I don't believe my colleagues were piling all the blame on Luria. They just have certain concerns and wanted to involve players of the entire continent in solving our common issues. I think it's a decent and constructive move.

[Lorgan]

I'm not in character. If I was in character I'd be saying something like "BURN EVERYTHING! START WITH SWORDFELL!". I am however giving you a solution from the perspective of Lurian victory while the solutions I've seen offered so far (not only in this thread) are those thought up for scenario's in which Luria's defeated.

That said, I would love to see more balance restored to Dwilight, and the best way to do that would be to take some 20 "Lurian" nobles and colonize a space in the North somewhere. Not by splitting up Luria or sticking an eternal enemy in Lurian lands. Neither would solve anything. Luria would either just work together in the face of the ongoing threat or have an even greater noble density and a weak nemesis. However, for colonization to be possible, the war needs to be (mostly) over.

[Renodin]

To OP:

I've had a talk with some Fissoan and League people in general OOC through IM. There has been a discussion internally in Luria also.

That you mention the White Rose for me is a big plume on my hat and know that I strive for global player enjoyment. Perhaps some of that shimmers through with my letters, Rp's and random interactions. Anyhow, I'd like to find solutions and get things moving ahead. I would like to avoid losing players from any realm and retain a high(er) population on Dwilight. How to actually achieve that is very much in the air as many possibilities are workable, although not all preferred or enjoy broad support.

Anyhow, avoiding letting a new spark fuel a heated debate, I support resolution. Keep up the good work Shizzle.

(Aldrakar)

[Indirik]

If your war is boring, then do something else. Make peace with Luria, and go attack someone else. Say... get mad at D'Hara for involving you in an endless, unwinnable war. Ally with Luria and go march on D'Hara.

Or split your realm into pieces, and fight among yourselves.

Or turn your back on the whole mess, and go reconquer some of the western lands.

Hold a realm-wide joke contest, and reward the winner with a new duchy. (Or promise to, then renege at the last minute saying the whole thing was a meta-joke!)

Just because you're doing something right now doesn't mean you have to keep doing it. Especially if what you're doing is boring/annoying. You don't have to win a war before you stop fighting it. You don't have to write some brilliant treaty that takes away half your enemy's lands in order to declare peace.

And if you exit the war, and Luria comes marching to you, then you can defend your homelands while Luria is the one that has to suffer the long boring marches to bring the attack to you.

Remember: You as a player are responsible for your own enjoyment of the game. No one else is responsible for making the game fun for you. If it's not fun, then make whatever changes you need to make it fun. That may include exiting a war on unfavorable conditions, leaving the realm you are in, and heading to another. Or pausing your current character, then starting a new one in that realm with a new concept.

As for myself, I just rejoined Dwilight with a new character in Morek, after taking a long break from the island. I don't really have any stake in matters yet. Except to say this: Holy Crap! Morek is a friggn' ghost town!

[Ossan]

For such a big realm Luria sure likes to use kick people when they are already down  :p

Seriously though, was it really necessary to try and assassinate me? I'm flattered :)

Also I'm really curious, what the heck was that magic spell that was cast before the attack on Aveston? Obviously IC I have no idea, but I am really curious about the use of magic in BM and would love to know more via PM.

Give us space to colonize, and we will. Sign peace with us and we won't colonize your lands.

There is literally nowhere to colonize unless you invade someone, afaik the west continent is still swarmed with monsters.

I still think that the biggest problem with Dwilight is the map design and lack of realms, although yes Morek and Luria breaking up a bit would help alleviate the second problem. Another issue is there isn't a whole lot to do in peace time unless you are an active RPer, so people will end up getting bored of peace pretty soon and who the heck is a nation like Fissoa going to attack? They basically can choose between Luria, D'Hara and Swordfell I guess. Astrum and Morek are pretty far away.

As for how boring the war is for everyone else, try being in Barca... things really stagnated. I had no idea what two of our Suffetes were doing if they did anything at all and everyone seemed to be waiting for someone else to do something. I'm still not sure why anyone aside from a couple of less than great players voted for one of them. What a bad choice that was.

Hold a realm-wide joke contest, and reward the winner with a new duchy. (Or promise to, then renege at the last minute saying the whole thing was a meta-joke!)

Would that break SMA?

[Lorgan]

... have you looked at the map of Dwilight recently? There is literally nowhere to colonize unless you invade someone, afaik the west continent is still swarmed with monsters.

As far as I know Fissoa, D'Hara, Astrum and Morek have not merged into one indivisible entity. North has room for more realms - in the interest of making Dwilight more fun - so North is where I'd preferably start a colony. And yes, that means invading someone up North.
It is as far as I can see the only way to break the stagnation of the North and weaken Luria, unless of course you beat Luria. And even then, the North will still be one mega-blob + the blob's best buddy.