How to help Dwilight.

[Chenier]

10 players of D'Hara don't find the war fun, 5 do. 2 abstained, 9 votes not cast.

One of the first things I wanted to do after taking power was quantify people's positions. It's easy to make an impression from the most vocal, but they don't always represent the majority. I think it'd be a worthwhile initiative for the other rulers of the League, too.

Then we can start thinking about offering peace offers that aren't as ridiculous as the past ones.

[D`Este]

Could have settled peacefully in Corsanctum; would have landed you a duchy easily in exchange for a token supplication. I don't recall Cathan ever being reached out to, though.

That was something I didn't think about as corsanctum was pretty hostile to Niselur before and also when we came close to their regions. And I was looking for a place to settle down without too much effort as RL was taking most of my energy.

[OFaolain]

That was something I didn't think about as corsanctum was pretty hostile to Niselur before and also when we came close to their regions. And I was looking for a place to settle down without too much effort as RL was taking most of my energy.

You must have talked to Wassiley; I had quite a nice conversation with your General about that time and sent someone an offer to settle (to Astroists, mind, but that could have been negotiable). It was also scary on our end since relations didn't get upgraded to neutral and peace until you were at sea, IIRC.

[D`Este]

You must have talked to Wassiley; I had quite a nice conversation with your General about that time and sent someone an offer to settle (to Astroists, mind, but that could have been negotiable). It was also scary on our end since relations didn't get upgraded to neutral and peace until you were at sea, IIRC.

That was because Morek first promised us Corsanctum to conquer.

[Chenier]

It'd be nice if adventurers could contribute against the western monsters.

[De-Legro]

It'd be nice if adventurers could contribute against the western monsters.

Are not the monsters there for a reason?

[Chenier]

Are not the monsters there for a reason?

Yes, to make the game more fun.

The metric used was to make Dwilight denser, but the purpose of that was to make Dwilight more fun.

Monster hordes have always been an integral part of Dwilight, and perhaps the part that attracted most of its players there.

I'd point out that fighting the monsters doesn't mean exterminating them. If the realms take back the 5 coastal cities, plus the stronghold, plus the doughnuts... that's like 13 regions. Dwilight has 175 nobles, and it's pretty much just two regions per realm.

We don't need to wipe them off to make fighting them fun.

[De-Legro]

Yes, to make the game more fun.

The metric used was to make Dwilight denser, but the purpose of that was to make Dwilight more fun.

Monster hordes have always been an integral part of Dwilight, and perhaps the part that attracted most of its players there.

I'd point out that fighting the monsters doesn't mean exterminating them. If the realms take back the 5 coastal cities, plus the stronghold, plus the doughnuts... that's like 13 regions. Dwilight has 175 nobles, and it's pretty much just two regions per realm.

We don't need to wipe them off to make fighting them fun.

Anaris would know better then I if it was intended that the the western monsters could be reasonably fought, I had assumed they were designed to make any success against them pretty much impossible, just as the glaciers of the other continents can not be forced to melt no matter how big a fire we build.

[Chenier]

Anaris would know better then I if it was intended that the the western monsters could be reasonably fought, I had assumed they were designed to make any success against them pretty much impossible, just as the glaciers of the other continents can not be forced to melt no matter how big a fire we build.

Perhaps it was intended that no realm could survive them, but it was also said that this could be revisited in the future.

There was a time when the hordes were pretty huge. Though sometimes it was overwhelming and hopeless, it was mostly fun. Now, as long as we have our safe land to fall back to, it's easier to tweak things so that it's difficult, and that sometimes efforts need to be restarted, without it being completely hopeless.

If you look at the Dwilight forums, it's been mentionned a few times by different people that it'd be really "cool" to establish a "monster-fighting colony". When you think about it, that's essentially what all of Dwilight's colonies were, especially in the West, and they attracted a lot of players. If you want to fight other human realms, you can do that just about anywhere. If want to fight against relentless hordes, you've only ever really had Dwilight for that. Until it got all populated... and started to decline. BT had sporadic invasions, which also attracted many players.

We just don't have any of that left. PvE was a big source of fun for many players, and it's completely gone. I do think that Dwilight's monsters should be fine-tuned to be just the right strength: easy enough for a large coalition to take the coastal cities, too hard for any of the realms to hold a non-fortifiable region on their own.

Maybe even set official spawning zones, such as the Corridor of Torment and Volcano Nightscree, which would be the only regions to spawn new monster units (that however travel every turn), and which are impossible to defeat.

[De-Legro]

Perhaps it was intended that no realm could survive them, but it was also said that this could be revisited in the future.

There was a time when the hordes were pretty huge. Though sometimes it was overwhelming and hopeless, it was mostly fun. Now, as long as we have our safe land to fall back to, it's easier to tweak things so that it's difficult, and that sometimes efforts need to be restarted, without it being completely hopeless.

If you look at the Dwilight forums, it's been mentionned a few times by different people that it'd be really "cool" to establish a "monster-fighting colony". When you think about it, that's essentially what all of Dwilight's colonies were, especially in the West, and they attracted a lot of players. If you want to fight other human realms, you can do that just about anywhere. If want to fight against relentless hordes, you've only ever really had Dwilight for that. Until it got all populated... and started to decline. BT had sporadic invasions, which also attracted many players.

We just don't have any of that left. PvE was a big source of fun for many players, and it's completely gone. I do think that Dwilight's monsters should be fine-tuned to be just the right strength: easy enough for a large coalition to take the coastal cities, too hard for any of the realms to hold a non-fortifiable region on their own.

Maybe even set official spawning zones, such as the Corridor of Torment and Volcano Nightscree, which would be the only regions to spawn new monster units (that however travel every turn), and which are impossible to defeat.

I do recall. I was one of the few to protest reducing the monsters back years ago, destroying some of what made Dwilight different from the other continents. The more vocal and numerous wanted a standard BM continent, were the focus was on fighting other realms. People wanted every region to be under player control, not the constant fight to maintain the smallish safe places painstakingly carved out. People did not want the constant colony attempts against all odds to settle the north east.

Things like travel time were never an issue when you had all the battles you needed right on your own borders as monsters attempted to invade after all.

[Chenier]

I do recall. I was one of the few to protest reducing the monsters back years ago, destroying some of what made Dwilight different from the other continents. The more vocal and numerous wanted a standard BM continent, were the focus was on fighting other realms. People wanted every region to be under player control, not the constant fight to maintain the smallish safe places painstakingly carved out. People did not want the constant colony attempts against all odds to settle the north east.

Things like travel time were never an issue when you had all the battles you needed right on your own borders as monsters attempted to invade after all.

Well, to be fair, I think that many people wanted to colonize, without much thought as to the end result. It was the process that was fun. At some points, those hordes did get so big that there was absolutely nothing, at least at the time, anyone could hope to do against them. I think they wanted a challenge, not to play Russian roulette.

But indeed, Dwilight's linear geography, combined with its ever-decreasing density, makes for poor wars that need to be fought over long distances. There just isn't enough nobles to pack the land with more realms that could provide closer combat. Monsters are really the only viable venture to keep things fun.

[Shulee]

That was because Morek first promised us Corsanctum to conquer.

A significant portion of Luria's current head count are exiles from the West. Please note the word exile. As a rank and  file member of that group I think the almost everyone but Luria's leadership have preferred to see us as immigrants -- new souls for their cultures. From my point of view nothing could be further from the truth.

My first choice would be to have succeeded in establishing Asylon in the east. When that failed to come about the choices ranged between becoming a puppet/client state of the League or join Luria. The majority of us joined Luria because it was the least offensive to us and acknowledged our desire to establish our own nation in the east. None of us thought that the coalition war against Luria would last too long and we believed we'd soon have a chance to build anew.

The war though has dragged on and on. And, again from the rank and file point of view, the offers of peace from the coalition have consistently refused to recognize the aspirations of the exiles from the West. You need to know that we saw ourselves as victors over Astrum and Corsanctum. In our view, we should have a seat at any peace convention. We should have lands appropriate to our noble count. Instead, over and over offers were proposed that made only Luria smaller (puzzling in the face of the unremitting military losses of the coalition) and recognized none of the needs of the exiles.

[Stabbity]

My three point plan is underway!

1. Stab Hrok
2. ??
3. Profit.

[Chenier]

A significant portion of Luria's current head count are exiles from the West. Please note the word exile. As a rank and  file member of that group I think the almost everyone but Luria's leadership have preferred to see us as immigrants -- new souls for their cultures. From my point of view nothing could be further from the truth.

My first choice would be to have succeeded in establishing Asylon in the east. When that failed to come about the choices ranged between becoming a puppet/client state of the League or join Luria. The majority of us joined Luria because it was the least offensive to us and acknowledged our desire to establish our own nation in the east. None of us thought that the coalition war against Luria would last too long and we believed we'd soon have a chance to build anew.

The war though has dragged on and on. And, again from the rank and file point of view, the offers of peace from the coalition have consistently refused to recognize the aspirations of the exiles from the West. You need to know that we saw ourselves as victors over Astrum and Corsanctum. In our view, we should have a seat at any peace convention. We should have lands appropriate to our noble count. Instead, over and over offers were proposed that made only Luria smaller (puzzling in the face of the unremitting military losses of the coalition) and recognized none of the needs of the exiles.

I don't think anyone recognized the exiles as a distinct entity. The League views them as Luria does: Lurian immigrants. I don't think I've seen a Lurian proposition for them that wasn't just a thinly-veiled plan to set up a client state for themselves to more easily launch attacks against D'Hara.

It doesn't help that the exiles don't express themselves on any international forum, either.

[Shulee]

It doesn't help that the exiles don't express themselves on any international forum, either.

Then that's something we (the exiles) should take steps to correct.