Attack on Sasrhas!

[dustole]

Ok im going to stop you right there.  I have tried to keep this as ooc as possible but seeing as how multiple rulers are using this forum to openly mislead (and in some cases out right lie) just to promote or justify there IC actions im going to lay down whats actually been happening IC.

They have, but I don't think Coralynth can really take much credit. Dawn mishandled both her allies and her Duke pretty abominably, and now, from the sounds of it, the internal strife is pretty much over Sartanism.

In an effort to prevent the ganging up mentality culture that has infested BM like a plague i tried to limit the number of enemies Sorraine would be fighting at any one time as frankly i didn't believe that the first realm that actually tried war after the political reset should get punished by a four on one gangbang just because they attacked first.  Especially as the reasons for the two mentioned realms that joined the war after arcaea kept changing there answers every time i asked why they had joined the war.... (first stating it was outrage against coralynth.... then stating it was in responce to two reams ganging up on a smaller realm.....then stating it was a war against sartan)  As such when Cathay and Zonasa joined the war i attempted to settle a treaty between Ohnar west and Sorraine.  I then sent a further message ooc to explain my reasons for this.  A few days later a treaty was semi finalized amongst the "allied" realms, no complaint was made by Zonasa or Cathay during this process.  A final draft was written up and a full day after that it was sent to the ruler of Sorraine.  IT WAS ONLY AFTER THEN THAT SUDDENLY YOU HAD ISSUES WITH IT, Baranion then wrote several passive aggressive and generically demeaning letters about how Arcaea had stepped on his sovereignty (stating that his character was ill so im guessing  he has missed a few turns so had not seen the drafts).

Im sorry but to put it bluntly if your going to say that i "mishandled my allies"  just because you were afk thats on you.  If you had lost a region due to missing a few turns you cant just say "can you give me back that region i didn't log in yesterday because i was ill"  Could i have waited longer?   Probably, but thats largely down to inexperience.  Honestly the jist of the draft had been the same for over a week i felt sure everything had been covered.  This has been my first time as a ruler of a realm; and as im sure you have gathered i had plenty of inside drama inside the realm to deal with as well as outside, i didn't really give additional timing much thought...

As for my mishandling the situation with Claudio.....  he had sabotaged the main army during a time of war, caused vast amounts of strife even before the current crisis including but not limited to threatening to punish players for not moving out of his duchy when they didn't log on, citing promises that know one in the council new anything about and when dialogue and communication was attempted left ultimatums saying he was going to Secede anyway regardless of what anyone thought going as far as to bring a foreign powers military to hold his hand while doing so (not to mention this was after he ran a failed election campaign stating that he had no intention of seceding).

What character do you play?  Much of what you just said about Claudio is untrue.  I'll take time later to refute it point by point.

[Indirik]

Fwiw, the misunderstandings that have developed between Sorraine and Coralynth have been kind of funny. Both sides (unofficially) blame the other for the mess that marked the start of the war. Ooc it's ridiculously easy to see the way this whole thing got blown out of proportion. Ic, we're all just hanging on, and hoping we don't all get wiped out.

That impression of Sartanism is really kind of funny, too. Internally, Sartanism is one of the most boring religions ever. Nothing happens. No big plots or plans. It's a giant bogeyman fir the FEI. More Sartanism shrines and temples are burned than any other religion, i bet. CoH has been burning down Sartan temples for years. We just expect it, and dont whine when it happens.

[Indirik]

Kainaq plays the Konran family, i believe. Arcaeas new ruler.

[Anaris]

I am going to come out and say that I am very, very glad that Arcaea has split up following IC events that have arisen organically from IC actions, rather than in an organized OOC fashion.

After the countless forum posts advocating for splitting Arcaea for OOC reasons, I think it's in very bad taste to come back and say "it's your fault, if you had played better it wouldn't have happened".

What? No, I think this is fantastic, too!

My criticisms of Dawn are primarily for what she did to Cathay and Zonasa, none of which has anything directly to do with the state of Arcaea today. I'm quite happy, IC and OOC, with Claudio's secession. I only know through hearsay what's happening inside Arcaea, but it seems to me that it's also likely to result in a more interesting FEI than otherwise.

[Kainaq]

My criticisms of Dawn are primarily for what she did to Cathay and Zonasa, none of which has anything directly to do with the state of Arcaea today. I'm quite happy, IC and OOC, with Claudio's secession. I only know through hearsay what's happening inside Arcaea, but it seems to me that it's also likely to result in a more interesting FEI than otherwise.

Dawn did nothing to intentionally harm Cathay or Zonasa (all i wanted to do was prevent the annihilation of Sorraine...), you make it sound like she ordered terms (she didn't, i rechecked the letters) you didn't see them due to being offline for three days, then cited issues with it

There are several problems here, but from where I sit, it looks like the biggest one is that you assumed that because Velax was Emperor, and Dawn is his successor, Dawn gets to dictate what other realms of the Empire do unilaterally.

Velax never operated that way, so this felt like a serious slap in the face.

Problem with this statement is that Dawn never dictated anything.  Other rulers asked if Dawn would give greater clarity on what Arcaea would support.  When initial drafts were made, i received letters from both Cathay and OW and they seemed satisfied, Zonasa remained silent.... and continued to remain silent when the final draft was proposed and after a few days presented.  It genuinely pisses me off that you try to make out that i was giving orders when that just wasn't the case.


You sent out a draft on a weekend, which any BattleMaster player of longer than 3 months should know are times of lower activity   
Its no secret that a ruler/generals tend to have to be alot more active, (as such i made an assumption that you had no opinion either way on it).... they have to be otherwise they would be ill suited for the job.  Hell i believe we even had a ruler step down recently for this exact reason....   Bm is a light weight game, i have spent more time writing on the forum today then i have actually playing BM. 


Please never call someone a liar unless you have a strong reason to believe that they are telling deliberate falsehoods.

Dawn mishandled both her allies and her Duke pretty abominably  This is a highly weighted opinion at best

Arcaea seems to be doing some fence sitting right now.   They aren't helping their ally OW.   They won't sign peace with the Grand Duchy which is keeping the Grand Duchy and Zonasa out of the war.   Seems they are really screwing  things up.   One would hope they would !@#$ or get off the pot...    

This was taken from the "is this the next big war thread", this was an out right lie.


I don't pretend to know everything that went on within Arcaea leading up to the secession, but it's painfully clear that you mishandled him. I was in communication with Claudio intermittently throughout, and there wasn't the slightest hint of him being dissatisfied with Arcaea until you tried to deny his right to secede at the time of his choosing.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHHHA ........  During Claudios election campaign he was accused of being a "succession happy duke" by another noble.  In response he promised that he had no plans to secede.  The day after he lost the election i received a letter saying that he plans to secede and that plans were well under way.  I wonder if he chose to hide this little tidbit of information from Baranion :P


His duchy would still be part of Arcaea now if you had handled that situation properly.


His duchy being part of Arcaea was no longer relevant.....  he had effectively taken all the nobles in his duchy out of the military chain of command and had the doing their own thing.  They were contributing nothing to Arcaea.  As a result Arcaea didn't actually lose anything when they left.


But you say this as if it doesn't even matter that you might possibly have done something not-quite-perfectly, and then continue to basically insult me, as if the whole situation was something I schemed up to upset you.

If players are throwing less then subtle insults in my direction both IC and OOC... shockingly i tend to throw a few back

[GundamMerc]

Just going to say two things. I agree with Kainaq on this one. And Anaris, just because you think that anyone who has played for three months should know that the weekends are less active doesn't make that a true statement. It's a logical fallacy, one that is easily refuted by looking at just about any other game and finding that the norm in those games is more activity on the weekend. So to expect players that play other games to then come into Battlemaster and expect the weekends to be less active is not really something you should do. I didn't learn that the weekends were less active until YEARS into playing. I doubt I'm the only one.

[Eirikr]

I'm not going to catch up on the rest of the thread, but I'm going to join in and agree that the weekend defense is kinda weak, imo. BM doesn't stop on the weekends, never has. Why should it? Sure, sure, people tend to be less active, but it doesn't stop.

And if I recall, treaties have to be signed anyway... that causes some built-in time delay, doesn't it?

Also, from a brief look-over, it's crazy the amount of misinformation out about Claudio's secession.

I don't pretend to know everything that went on within Arcaea leading up to the secession, but it's painfully clear that you mishandled him. I was in communication with Claudio intermittently throughout, and there wasn't the slightest hint of him being dissatisfied with Arcaea until you tried to deny his right to secede at the time of his choosing.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHHHA ........  During Claudios election campaign he was accused of being a "succession happy duke" by another noble.  In response he promised that he had no plans to secede.  The day after he lost the election i received a letter saying that he plans to secede and that plans were well under way.  I wonder if he chose to hide this little tidbit of information from Baranion :P

I will attest to this. Though I will also say that intentional or not (and consequently, no offense dustole), Claudio's messages are often confusing for me. I still think that he may have really just meant to mention his plans for the far off future, but his first messages definitely came off as "Hey guys, I'm going to secede tomorrow. Cool?" Even if it was more laying out his future plans, the timing was abysmal - very few (vocal) people in Arcaea saw it as anything other than him being a sore loser.

[Bedwyr]

I'm staying out of the rest of this mess, but from an OOC perspective I think Dawn reacted more harshly than was strictly wise, but in a perfectly understandable way to Claudio's letters.  Claudio's actions are somewhat understandable given the RL years going into his plan, but were pretty freaking hostile in tone and I could easily argue they were outright treasonous, especially since he went from "I want to secede" to "OMG They won't let me secede!" so quickly, when most of the realm was unaware of the plans.

[dustole]

I didn't say in the election that I wouldn't secede.  I said later had I been elected I would have moved the capitol much further south and the north would have had to split off.  I should have been more clear.

In my initial letter to dawn about the new realm was a report laying. Out my timeline and explaining what I had left to do before I was ready.  It was quite clear it was a long way off.  10 recruitment centers built, more knights etc.  Her response was to make it a public discussion and try to discredit Claudio.

[Eirikr]

I didn't say in the election that I wouldn't secede.  I said later had I been elected I would have moved the capitol much further south and the north would have had to split off.  I should have been more clear.

Actually you did... People were quick to pull that letter back from the election when the discussion went public. You did correct yourself later, but by then the election was over, making it look like you were trying to trust your own words after the loss. It's really all bad timing and misunderstandings... But hey, it made FEI move a little.

[Kainaq]

Dawn made it a public discussion because quite frankly when the current ruler, general, judge and banker have not heard a thing about any plans for succession at all yet an entire duchy apparently does then its clearly gone far beyond a private matter.

As for discrediting......  you did a fine job of that yourself.

[dustole]

It worked out moderately well for Claudio in the end.  I would have liked more time to prepare but we dealt with it.

[Kainaq]

I think it worked out well for all parties involved really....  Arcaea was unmanageably big

[Qyasogk]

I'm sorry, but that's a lawyer's response. Just because the words you wrote were technically true doesn't mean they weren't intentionally deceptive. It was obvious to everyone on the continent that Coralynth was planning to join the war against Ohnar West, even though it was already apparently outmatched by Sorraine.

I'm sorry you feel that a factual statement is a "lawyer's response". If it was obvious to everyone what Coralynth was going to do, then why would we bother with deception?

That you believe Ohnar West was "outmatched" is part of the problem, they weren't. We all have so few nobles, that none of us, except Arcaea has the strength to really assault any of our opponents cities. Furthermore it didn't stop you from joining in the war against Sorraine and Coralynth, even though we're already "outmatched" by Ohnar West and Arcaea. If what we did is wrong, then what you're doing is wrong also.

If you wanted to be seen as honourable, you could have tried declaring war before the last possible second. Like, for instance, Baranion did.

A declaration of war isn't just a mechanical thing that lets you attack people you want to attack, you know. It's also a formality that declares your intentions.

As I said, we declared a full day (two turns) before our attack took place. That you believe otherwise is also part of the problem. Furthermore, how your realm declares war is up to you. My queen had never declared war on her own before, and didn't know the "league of rulers" in the Far East had expectations about what a ruler should or shouldn't do before declaring war. Using her inexperience as a prelude to destroy her realm seems a bit much... and hypocritical.

They have, but I don't think Coralynth can really take much credit. Dawn mishandled both her allies and her Duke pretty abominably, and now, from the sounds of it, the internal strife is pretty much over Sartanism.
Nothing to do with Coralynth.

There's not really much to gain from disabusing you of this notion, so I will let your assumptions be.

[Anaris]

Furthermore it didn't stop you from joining in the war against Sorraine and Coralynth, even though we're already "outmatched" by Ohnar West and Arcaea. If what we did is wrong, then what you're doing is wrong also.

Check your chronology. Zonasa was the first realm to join in the war on Ohnar West's side.