Message #138195

[Eldargard]

Recently I heard that the dev team was looking to make the following happen:

I want more knights to mean more gold per percent of estate—so that if the Lord has a 20% estate, and 1 knight has a 10% estate, and the Lord's weekly tax just from his estate averages 150, then another knight takes a 10% estate, the Lord's weekly tax goes up to 155. And the other knight's weekly tax goes up. Thus, not only would Lords who want to benefit the realm try to take on more knights, Lords who want to make a load of money on their own will, too..

I'm saying I would change the code so that the same estate you have today would start making more money, without the Lord making any changes to that estate, just because another knight took an estate in the region.

So I have been looking to find an formula that would make the following above goals happen. My first attempt failed miserably due to me misremembering what the dev team was looking for. Now that I have reviewed this I have a second potential proposal. Though my final proposal is detailed at the end, I have decided to go ahead and include all the work that lead me to the final suggestion.

Once again, I will use Dantooine as my base as it is the only region I have detailed information on. I am also assuming that production would average at 69% and that the regions tax rate is at 14%. The real averages might be different.

I will also assume that the lord will want to get the most gold possibly from the region by simply using the largest estates possible. From what I tested thus far, this system should yield the desired results regardless of how the lord chooses to divide his region.

I am also not calculating in a lord taxing their knights. This is because knights will see a boost in income regardless of this tax rate as long as the boost in untaxed income is over 2 gold.

Also, I lack the information that I would need to perform a comparable check on a very rich region (like Giask) and a very poor region (like Desert of Silhouettes). This system might break down under such extremes but  I am not smart enough to know this without doing the calculations (though I suspect there may be an issue). If so, the problem might be fixable by simply adjusting the size of bonuses. If the devs find this proposal interesting they can either perform their own calculations using the information here or give me the missing info and I will happily run the numbers and post them. If there is no interest, that is fine too!

Finally, i would like to describe the formula I am using here which is based on what is listed on the wiki. I have included the math for each step but have sloppily rounded off the results to the nearest whole gold piece.

REGION_GOLD_STAT * CURRENT_REGION_PRODUCTION * CURRENT_REGION_TAX_RATE * DAYS_IN_A_WEEK * ESTATE_SIZE * ESTATE_EFFICIENCY

When there wildlands or empty estates and their income should go to the lord, I add this to the equation when determining the Lords tax share:

+ REGION_GOLD_STAT * CURRENT_REGION_PRODUCTION * CURRENT_REGION_TAX_RATE * DAYS_IN_A_WEEK * SIZE_OF_UNCLAIMED_LAND * .5

Toward the end I talk about giving the region lord a 10% boost to their earned income this is calculated by modifying his formula to the following:

REGION_GOLD_STAT * CURRENT_REGION_PRODUCTION * CURRENT_REGION_TAX_RATE * DAYS_IN_A_WEEK * ESTATE_SIZE * ESTATE_EFFICIENCY * 1.1

With Wildlands with income from wildlands and empty estates:

Code: [Select]

Lord has 40% Estate and 60% Wildlands:
No production boost needed
Lord: 456*.69*.14*7 * .40 * .83 + 456*.69*.14*7 * .60 * .5 = 102 + 92 = 194

Lord has 40% Estate and 20% Wildlands, Knight has 40% Estate:
+45% Production(45% total boost)
Lord: 456*1.14*.14*7 * .40 * .83 + 456*.69*.14*7 * .20 * .5 = 200
1 Knight: 456*1.14*.14*7 * .40 * .83 = 169

Lord has 40% Estate, Knight 1 has 40% Estate, Knight 2 has 20% Estate:
+25% Production (70% total boost)
Lord: 456*1.39*.14*7 * .40 * .83 = 206
1 Knight: 456*1.39*.14*7 * .40 * .83 = 206
2 Knight: 456*1.39*.14*7 * .20 * 1 = 124
Here we can see that due to the loss of empty estates and wildlands to knights, huge productivity boosts are needed to ensure the Lord's income will actually increase thanks to taking on a knight. This is fairly problimatic and suggests that, in order to meet the requirements above, Lords should probably not make money from unoccupied land.

With Wildlands with no income from wildlands or empty estates:

Code: [Select]

Lord has 40% Estate:
No bonus needed
Lord: 456*.69*.14*7 * .40 * .83 = 102

Lord has 40% Estate, Knight has 40% Estate:
+5% Production
Lord: 456*.74*.14*7 * .40 * .83 = 109
1 Knight: 456*.74*.14*7 * .40 * .83 = 109

Lord has 40% Estate, Knight 1 has 40% Estate, Knight 2 has 20% Estate:
+5% Production (10% total boost)
Lord: 456*.79*.14*7 * .40 * .83 = 117
1 Knight: 456*.79*.14*7 * .40 * .83 = 117
2 Knight: 456*.79*.14*7 * .20 * 1 = 70
Here we can see noticeable increase in income with much more reasonable production boosts. The problem now is that lords will, as a whole, earn a whole lot less money off of regions - especially with no or few knights. It is no longer possible to nearly double your earnings just by not having a knight. (Even if you tax your knights to the max. I like this but others might find it frustrating.

Also, the only benefit lords have to make estates out of wild lands is that my doing so makes it easier for knights to take estates which would than boost your income. The traditional idea is to allow a lord to earn income from empty estates but not from wildlands but this will cause the lord to lose significant income if an estate is taken which will require in huge production bonuses being needed (the same as describes in the first scenario) if we are to meet the goals listed above.

Instead, I suggest a bonus to the region lords income based on how much of their region is a part of an estate - empty or occupied. So if 100% of your region is a part of one estate or another you gain a 10% boost - always. If 77% of your region is a part of one estate or another you gain an 8% boost. If 44% is a part of an estate than you gain a 4% boost.

With Wildlands giving no income and unmanned estates giving some income:

Code: [Select]

Lord has 40% Estate:
No bonus needed
Lord: 456*.69*.14*7 * .40 * .83 * 1.1 = 112

Lord has 40% Estate, Knight has 40% Estate:
+5% Production
Lord: 456*.74*.14*7 * .40 * .83 * 1.1 = 120
1 Knight: 456*.74*.14*7 * .40 * .83 = 109

Lord has 40% Estate, Knight 1 has 40% Estate, Knight 2 has 20% Estate:
+5% Production (10% total boost)
Lord: 456*.79*.14*7 * .40 * .83 * 1.1 = 129
1 Knight: 456*.79*.14*7 * .40 * .83 = 117
2 Knight: 456*.79*.14*7 * .20 * 1 = 70
Here you can see that the lord has gained a small boost to their income simply for ensuring that 100% of their land is a part of one estate or another. This last proposal is my favorite of the three.

In summation, this would consist of:

* Do not allow lords to collect the income from empty estated or wild lands as no one is there to collect taxes
* Increase region production by 5% for each KNIGHT that has an estate due to the increased region efficiency gained from having an additional caretaker within the region
    * It might be a good ides to hide this bonus to productivity or treat it as a separate bonus that applies to total region income so it does not dirty up the region stats
* Increase the lords income by 1% for every 10% of their region that is a part of an estate due to the increased coverage of the regional government
    * Again, I would hide this information and not combine it with efficiency to keep all the details clear