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East Continent vs. Far East

Started by Constantine, April 24, 2015, 07:05:10 PM

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Constantine

Quote from: Vita on April 26, 2015, 02:42:09 AM
I'm just pointing out that there's not some big dichotomy of folks waiting around and other folks doing things.
Perhaps.
But there is a big difference between things being done and things not being done. :)

Those guys slowly maneuvred themselves into a small-scale sustainable war and are having fun with it. Props where props are due.
The rest of the continent, according to your post, sat on their hands, waiting for those two little realms to set things in motion and create fun for them. Obviously there are no people who can get things done there.

Fleugs

The entire "we had this and that planned" largely depends on the actions of someone else. If that person is unpredictive or simply does not care, the plan is spoiled. Take up your own destiny and don't rely on half a continent to be embroiled in war. Besides, is such a huge conflict really much more fun? It might be for the large realms, but the smaller realms would turn insignificant. Does a war need broad justification on the ruler channel, if there's still a chance that a realm who came up with a good casus belli gets wiped out. You may as well not quote any reason to go to war and be done with it. Long-term planning, waiting and lurking around other realms does not at all make your war better. You risk doing dangerous stuff, like overthinking the implications of your war, or fearing destruction. There are nine realms on EC. This means that, not counting Vix and Perdan because they are at war, seven realms have all the things they need to seek conflict with eachother, and for once perhaps try not to work with massive alliances that are no good anyway.

As Constantine has narrowed it down, praise comes when you give your realm fun. As a ruler, you have one main goal: keeping your realm fun. I did not chose to rely on other realms (and thus, other rulers) for that, but I decided that perhaps Vix might be open to the same concept. They were, we are now having a war, the lesson is that you shouldn't rely on big alliances because, twist or turn it like you want, big alliances are detrimental to the environment of a continent.

I'll go even further: if Eponllyn wished to take/hand over Partora, what would that leave of Vix? I'd rather see Vix keep Partora and Eponllyn (and Caligus, Sirion, Nivemus) lose a city to a new realm, really. Besides, all this talk about what could have been is moot. It didn't happen.

Ardet nec consumitur.

Indirik

Quote from: Fleugs on April 26, 2015, 03:16:14 PM
I'll go even further: if Eponllyn wished to take/hand over Partora, what would that leave of Vix?
Who cares? It's ruled by a sociapathic madman who will probably freak out and try to wipe out Perdan as soon as he thinks this "war game" stuff isn't going his way.
If at first you don't succeed, don't take up skydiving.

Indirik

Quote from: De-Legro on April 25, 2015, 01:13:43 PM
People are only offended because the new ruler in Perdan achieved in days what the rest of the rulers on the continent have mulled over for months.
Yuo're not stupid. Don't pretend to be.
If at first you don't succeed, don't take up skydiving.

Constantine

Quote from: Indirik on April 26, 2015, 11:03:01 PM
Yuo're not stupid. Don't pretend to be.
That's a really poor comment both in tone and informational content.

Zakilevo

Don't know why but whenever I promise to let others run military in my realm, I end up ordering... I have... problems it seems.

De-Legro

Quote from: Lapallanch on April 27, 2015, 01:03:10 AM
Don't know why but whenever I promise to let others run military in my realm, I end up ordering... I have... problems it seems.

Let others run it, I preferred it when we were winning, not you.
Previously of the De-Legro Family
Now of representation unknown.

Zakilevo

Quote from: De-Legro on April 27, 2015, 01:06:15 AM
Let others run it, I preferred it when we were winning, not you.
Can't do that for Vix since pretty much everyone from my general to my marshals have gone inactive for RL reasons for a bit. So I am just covering there.

Sandalak is a different case. It is just me being very greedy as usual :o

Indirik

Quote from: Constantine on April 26, 2015, 11:09:18 PM
That's a really poor comment both in tone and informational content.
It wasn't intended to have information content, or a pleasant tone. (And, really, you think the post I quoted was intended to to have lots of informational content and a pleasant tone?) It was intended to tell De-Legro to stop being a troll. Don't worry, he's got a thick skin.
If at first you don't succeed, don't take up skydiving.

De-Legro

Quote from: Indirik on April 27, 2015, 03:28:47 AM
It wasn't intended to have information content, or a pleasant tone. (And, really, you think the post I quoted was intended to to have lots of informational content and a pleasant tone?) It was intended to tell De-Legro to stop being a troll. Don't worry, he's got a thick skin.

Lies, I cried for hours. Though those might have been tears of frustration as my baby daughter had not sleep in 15 hours. Hard to tell really.
Previously of the De-Legro Family
Now of representation unknown.

Indirik

Quote from: Anaris on April 25, 2015, 03:18:33 PM
This is, indeed, a problem. Its source lies, I think, primarily in the international politics of each continent, which rulers feel they need to take into account.
"feel" they need to take into account? They *have* to take it into account. When Sorraine started a war on FEI without taking international politics into account, and as a result got gang-banged, you elaborated quite extensively on how it was Sorraine's fault for not taking international politics into account. You can't tell me that it's our fault for *not* taking international politics into account on FEI, and then berate rulers for not starting a war because they*do* take international politics into account.

QuoteA big part of it is, of course, what someone mentioned earlier in this thread: that the aggressor in a conflict is all too often jumped upon by the rest of the continent as a "safe" target...
Yes, this is exactly why rulers spend so much time trying to set up a war. I've been burned too many times when wars started, and then gotten curbstomped by a coalition of realms claiming we're the aggressive, expansionistic, imperial dogs.

QuoteNow, this is more of a fear than an actual rule, but it is definitely a prevalent fear in the game, and it does lead to a lot more thinking about war and planning for war and a lot less actual war.
It's a damned valid fear. It happens all. the. time. There are a lot of realms out there that are perfectly aware that if they start a war, they'll get torn to pieces. It's not some baseless fear. It's fact.

Here's an idea that might help: Any ruler who joins a war, and then says "We're just supporting our allies" should have their character blasted off the throne.
If at first you don't succeed, don't take up skydiving.

Indirik

Quote from: De-Legro on April 27, 2015, 03:30:56 AM
Lies, I cried for hours. Though those might have been tears of frustration as my baby daughter had not sleep in 15 hours. Hard to tell really.
:'( Poor kid.

Her, not you.  ;)
If at first you don't succeed, don't take up skydiving.

Zakilevo

I must say im quite happy everyone is staying out of our little war.

Wasn't expecting that. It is very nice.

De-Legro

Quote from: Indirik on April 27, 2015, 03:38:07 AM
It's a damned valid fear. It happens all. the. time. There are a lot of realms out there that are perfectly aware that if they start a war, they'll get torn to pieces. It's not some baseless fear. It's fact.

Here's an idea that might help: Any ruler who joins a war, and then says "We're just supporting our allies" should have their character blasted off the throne.

Yet when Perdan seeks a war in such a manner as to avoid the fear they have of a giant pile in, they are baseless because oddly enough the nobles of the Realm can't see the rulers channel and can't indulge in the knowledge and fun that rulers get pushing diplomacy around. There was a time where realms did not adhere to politics as we do now. As the player base has aged we have become more and more entrenched in the political game, which has two problems. Firstly as well all know it slows things down and sets the scene for the constant repeat of one sided wars. Secondly it is a game that doesn't really generate much fun for those not in the Ruler channel. Take FEI. Delvin is enjoying the island. I would ask doing WHAT. As a noble of his realm I have sat in my capital for more then a week without orders or direction. The ruler of Grand Duchy of the Dragon visited, and I know not why he sought an audience or how it affects our part in the war, if Zonasa can even be said to be fighting a war.

The way out of the political quagmire is not to cater to it, not to spend months seeking large wars involving multiple realms and alliances. It is to short circuit matters, to encourage politics back to being more local, to encouraging realms to have enemies upon their borders with whom to fight so they don't require the actions of another realm before they can conceivably march to war. A long term goal to be sure, but so long as we are in a place where we say, oh I can't have a war because the Duke from some other realm hasn't seceded, so yet another realm can go to war with him and then we have alliances that mean we can produce a rationale to join in, we have narrowed both our viewpoint and our options to the point where stagnation will continue. As we have seen, when you rely upon a chain of events like that, it is all too easy for them to be delayed for considerable time, and then to disappear completely.
Previously of the De-Legro Family
Now of representation unknown.

Anaris

Quote from: Indirik on April 27, 2015, 03:38:07 AM
"feel" they need to take into account? They *have* to take it into account. When Sorraine started a war on FEI without taking international politics into account, and as a result got gang-banged, you elaborated quite extensively on how it was Sorraine's fault for not taking international politics into account. You can't tell me that it's our fault for *not* taking international politics into account on FEI, and then berate rulers for not starting a war because they*do* take international politics into account.

I berated Sorraine because they failed to take international politics into account and then bitched about the consequences.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan