the conflict looming

[Chenier]

i concur, what have i hated them in the past...
its almost the greatest mystery of BM why sint is not destroyed by either humans OR daimons.

They pussy out to the daimons all the time, and are more useful alive than dead.

Then, all their neighbours have historically needed their aid in their conflicts against everyone else. It was therefore better for OG, Heen, and Mesh to be nice with Sint rather than making a new powerful enemy in their flanks.

Sint is also far from those who do care. Enweil looted it for a few days when we were at war, but it was more to spit in their faces than anything. Marching from Fengen to Sint is just unbearable.

The only one in a position to attack Sint today is OG. And OG is probably still not on great terms with Fronen, indeed I expect a war to break out there sooner or later, so being friends with Sint is a strategic decision for them, and it makes sense on the short term.

That being said, if Sint's next pussying out costs us the continent, I think I'll make hunting the OG characters to all corners of the world one of my priorities. One has to consider long term, and I doubt that long term is that far away.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

...I tried leading a unit to burn down Keffa, but fade was a pain.

[Chenier]

...I tried leading a unit to burn down Keffa, but fade was a pain.

Fade...?

[Geronus]

i concur, what have i hated them in the past...
its almost the greatest mystery of BM why sint is not destroyed by either humans OR daimons.

Really? A mystery? I'll tell you why - it's because they have very good diplomacy. Remember the last war? They were allied with both OG and Heen, which were... The two realms that formed 90% of their borders. There's not much you can do against a realm with buffer states - you can loot them, but only if you get through the realms protecting their borders first. That's about it. They were the big dog on their block, and their neighbors consequently sought protection from them, which they effectively provided. This time around, I don't know... I don't know how OG feels about them exactly, but I suspect they're still on alright terms, and I doubt OG cares about what they did during the last invasion. The daimons didn't bother OG, after all, and they were close in the past. Nothoi is suspicious of Fronen, and so therefore likely to cozy up to Sint. As for the daimons, Sint didn't turn on them until fairly late in the game, and I think the daimons felt they had bigger fish to fry in Hetland. Then the Archons came and that was that.

[^ban^]

Fade...?

The end of the invasion - and the beginning, before it was realized some mechanics were too harsh - was harsh on NPC units.

[Heq]

Well, Nothoi is also down with the daimons.  If Sint were monster friendly there would be a problem and I'm not sure how many others in Nothoi are pro-Daimon, but there is most defonately a pro-daimon faction.  Not something advertised, of course, but it's not really hidden either.  Less now without Ramuh and Nikkitalinas but hating daimons is so passe.  Hating people who welsh on duelling outcomes, now there's some real rage.

[Chenier]

Really? A mystery? I'll tell you why - it's because they have very good diplomacy. Remember the last war? They were allied with both OG and Heen, which were... The two realms that formed 90% of their borders. There's not much you can do against a realm with buffer states - you can loot them, but only if you get through the realms protecting their borders first. That's about it. They were the big dog on their block, and their neighbors consequently sought protection from them, which they effectively provided. This time around, I don't know... I don't know how OG feels about them exactly, but I suspect they're still on alright terms, and I doubt OG cares about what they did during the last invasion. The daimons didn't bother OG, after all, and they were close in the past. Nothoi is suspicious of Fronen, and so therefore likely to cozy up to Sint. As for the daimons, Sint didn't turn on them until fairly late in the game, and I think the daimons felt they had bigger fish to fry in Hetland. Then the Archons came and that was that.

I think OG still has interests in Sint, as an OG/Fronen conflict is likely to re-emerge at some time.

[Naidraug]

Well, Nothoi is also down with the daimons.  If Sint were monster friendly there would be a problem and I'm not sure how many others in Nothoi are pro-Daimon, but there is most defonately a pro-daimon faction.  Not something advertised, of course, but it's not really hidden either.  Less now without Ramuh and Nikkitalinas but hating daimons is so passe.  Hating people who welsh on duelling outcomes, now there's some real rage.

Nothoi´s down with the daimons? Didn´t knew that...I know BK allied with the daimons and most of our realm members are from BK, but I wouldn´t say we are pro-daimon...

I think war should come by the end of the month, we just need to figure it out now who´s going to strike first

[Geronus]

I think OG still has interests in Sint, as an OG/Fronen conflict is likely to re-emerge at some time.

And there you have it. That's how Sint gets away with it - they maintain close relations with the realms that border them.

[Heq]

Well, it's a Tonker thing.  That's what happens when you make a religion around living mortals, all their decisions become divinely correct.

Ramuh is a daimon in human form, or was just crazy, and Nikki and Solips had some long term discussions with Prudent.  Oh course the whole "war is good for you" and the "cult of heroics" overlap an awful lot.

[Chenier]

Well, it's a Tonker thing.  That's what happens when you make a religion around living mortals, all their decisions become divinely correct.

Ramuh is a daimon in human form, or was just crazy, and Nikki and Solips had some long term discussions with Prudent.  Oh course the whole "war is good for you" and the "cult of heroics" overlap an awful lot.

BK was also federated to Enweil, who was in a strategic alliance with the daimons to fight the monsters. That surely helped.

[Chenier]

And there you have it. That's how Sint gets away with it - they maintain close relations with the realms that border them.

The surprise is not that some people seek their support, but that those who seek vengeance are not enough to overpower those who don't. Consider Mesh, for example, before they turned on Enweil. Had they chosen to turn on Sint instead, they would have gotten our support, and could likely have rallied at least Hetland to their cause. With Mesh on our side instead of against us, we might not have had time to crush Sint before the invasion started, but we certainly could have cracked some of the realms that surround it (Heen and OG).

[Lorgan]

Really? A mystery? I'll tell you why - it's because they have very good diplomacy.

Exactly. I was in Old Grehk after the third invasion and was pushing hard for a war against Sint. If we ended the war we would even get Fronen's support to take back Gethsemene. But Sint's diplomatic effort got the realm that was completely destroyed because of them and their daimons to actually trust them more than their old allies.
I actually abandoned OG over the alliance with Sint and took Vozzessdor with me to BK, they then gave it to Fronen and that was that, I lost the city and was off with my 8 knights to Thalmarkin.
With OG losing a third of her nobles and Thalmarkin gaining half we declared war on OG for allying with Sint "the daimonlovers" and went on to join the raid in Ossmat and take Vatrona.

Anyway, Sint's diplomacy has always been excellent and this is one of the most stunning examples I can give for that but in the end they remain big fat pussies for allying with the daimons. :)

[Chenier]

Anyway, Sint's diplomacy has always been excellent and this is one of the most stunning examples I can give for that but in the end they remain big fat pussies for allying with the daimons. :)

Twice. And then some.

Let's kill them off this time, shall we? Before they make us lose the continent? The whole continent against Sint. Then we can resume our old petty feuds that never ceased to entertain us all.  8)

[Draco Tanos]

With OG losing a third of her nobles and Thalmarkin gaining half we declared war on OG for allying with Sint "the daimonlovers" and went on to join the raid in Ossmat and take Vatrona.

And how'd that work out for OG in comparison to Thalmarkin? =P