Lions vs Tiramorans: the petty war of the South!

[Eduardo Almighty]

I'm deleting Erik to start a new char in Tiramora.

Erik is ending his time extremely unhappy with Sirion and although I know that, unfortunately, the Sirion division is up to Sirion, this is the biggest prize and will surely be the goal of the new character as it evolves. Let's see if we can do it, even while I think it's very hard to see the entire map against Sirion when they still have Nivemus/Caligus as allies...

[Deytheur]

The only reason why Odoaker would seek an alliance with Eponnly at this point is if it meant a larger realm could be broken down into several realms

*cough* Caligus *cough*

Also, call me stubborn  but all this 'fake war' doesn't really feel to be in the spirit of the game to me. When Perleone tried to set one up between Eponllyn and Armonia, I was sure that previously it had been said such pretend battles weren't allowed. That war was meant to be serious and there were meant to be real consequences. You might have found an easy distraction for your boredom but I can't imagine that it's particularly satisfying and I would go so far as to say it's not good for the rest of the island to have to play around this small vacuum or even good for the game as a whole.

[Constantine]

None of your implications seem to be true.
The war is not fake. It is real, armies clash and people die. It is different from a generic war by being codified in the same manner a duel is different from a brawl.
There will be serious consequences to this war. Kingdoms will lose land. But they will not be crippled or utterly destroyed. The loser will stay relevant and be able to take part in future conflicts, which is actually good for the entire continent.
It is quite satisfying already, seeing a lot of action. I have no idea what made you think otherwise.
Other kingdoms do not have to play around this conflict. Everyone can do as they please, there is no DM veto or something.
Don't be bitter and go create fun for your realm. :)

[Chamberlain]

With the new realm losing every battle, I wonder how long it will be before apathy sets in or there will be calls to make it a proper war. On the whole though I find myself in agreement with Deytheur.  BM is supposed to be a realistic experience and a wargame where people die and the victors pat the losers on the back and wish them better luck next time is just kind of hollow and I would have thought against the ethos of the game.

I do agree that it is a good thing that you are fighting in a war that will see nether realm fully crippled and where the object of the war is not total annihilation, I just wish it were  little more 'real'.

[Fleugs]

About the war: it looks like Vix is taking over Dimwood, the Tiramoran war goal. Meanwhile Perdan is taking over Ar Mosul. Fronts are shifting, but I'll believe that in a week or so Vix will have taken Dimwood and Ar Mosul will still be theirs. That will balance things out (certainly because Dimwood borders BOTH capitals).

Vix actually won battles in the past week. Not sure if apathy will still set in after those events. We'll see. Perdan could be more communicative, but I suppose I can't demand everyone to constantly chatter, and it's proving hard for myself to do that as well. Hence why I continue to strive for a division of positions. As such the burden is shared, as well.

And yes, perhaps a pre-defined war is not ideal. I'll counter all those arguments, though, by stating we are in a balanced war with very frequent battles, while the others on the continent (or entire other continents) are sitting around idle boring the players of this game. I have repeatedly seen it written that BM is to be played like you would play a boardgame with friends. Well, I have the feeling we're playing a version of Risk, and it's definitely not set in the cold war period. I'll go even further: I am a big fan of Paradox' Grand Strategy Games. In those games (in accordance to history), it is the norm to declare war on someone with the specific goal of taking a region (varying in size). It's even impossible to kill a realm that is not tiny. Perhaps Battlemaster's community has evolved to a point where war often leads to destruction or turning a realm irrelevant. Considering that, I prefer this war over the countless of other wars in Battlemaster that have more vague declarations of wars, often boiling down to "a slight has been made" or "this is not in our geopolitical interest". The war between Perdan and Vix is about real ground, a real region. It doesn't go further than that, but does it really have to? I disagree. It's possible, but not necessary. We have chosen the latter option. It's a valid choice, that benefit both realms the most. Besides, by turning this into a defined not-entirely-destructive one versus one, we ensured that both realms would not get roflstomped by some bigger realm. As well as ensuring that both realms are now the core of this war, not some auxiliary force that supports a much bigger army. Also, not having to account for allies makes planning your battles and wars a thousand times easier.

I honestly have no qualms about what this war is, even if it may be perceived as a fake war. I know I am doing the right thing for my realm and I know Zakky has the same idea. The single most important thing you do as a ruler is creating and nurturing a fun experience for the players who have chosen to play in your realm. I am completely confident that I am doing this. Any outside criticism is irrelevant to me.

[Constantine]

With the new realm losing every battle, I wonder how long it will be before apathy sets in or there will be calls to make it a proper war.

Wow, you really want this to fail, don't you. :D

BM is supposed to be a realistic experience and a wargame where people die and the victors pat the losers on the back and wish them better luck next time is just kind of hollow and I would have thought against the ethos of the game.

Actually that's what many feudal wars in Europe were about. A whole bunch of peasants would die and then noblemen would meet and decide who gets what as a result.
Oftentimes desired peace terms were presented to an opponent simultaneously with the declaration of war.

You seem to be more in favour of colonial wars, where an empire would pretty much steamroll some country oversea, steal all their land and never give a damn. You're welcome to practice that, but that sort of war will only be fun to you and fun won't even last long because this sort of military paradigm eventually leads to Atamara.

[Vita`]

I think the part that most bothers Deytheur, Chamberlain (and please do correct me if I'm wrong), and myself is the manner you've set up the war game that seems so artificial. It has nothing to do with hating on your war. Agreeing to a war where you only take a region or two from each other is fine. Agreeing to a war where you engage in a full war and on the 90th day agree to end hostilities with the 'winner' getting their wagered region and the returning all the other conquered regions back to the original realms seems extremely artificial and fake. Which is what Odoaker announced to the rulers.

And if I seem particularly grumpy about this, I'll fully confess I've been having trouble getting over how IC events fell out (IC stuff happens, we will move on, gives us reasons for a new direction etc.) and THEN constantly being accused OOCly of sitting around on our hands doing nothing when that is exactly what didn't happen. It's just hypocritical oocly.

"we are in a balanced war with very frequent battles, while the others on the continent (or entire other continents) are sitting around idle boring the players of this game."

[Fleugs]

Ah, you finaly managed to name it, then.  ;) I'll agree I may not take into account the efforts of others, but may I suggest making things less complicated and just going for it?

[The Red Foliot]

You seem to be more in favour of colonial wars, where an empire would pretty much steamroll some country oversea, steal all their land and never give a damn. You're welcome to practice that, but that sort of war will only be fun to you and fun won't even last long because this sort of military paradigm eventually leads to Atamara.

This is exactly what Battlemaster politics remind me of: Victorian era politics. Big blocks of alliances, with half the kings roleplaying dapper statesmen (and the other half uncommunicative). It's why it takes months to organize a war. They need to go through the long dance that all sophisticated politicians have to, with all the proper etiquette and protocols, accords and ultimatums. A real king, one with an iron crown and a pelt slung over his shoulder, would just declare war and be done with it.

[De-Legro]

This is exactly what Battlemaster politics remind me of: Victorian era politics. Big blocks of alliances, with half the kings roleplaying dapper statesmen (and the other half uncommunicative). It's why it takes months to organize a war. They need to go through the long dance that all sophisticated politicians have to, with all the proper etiquette and protocols, accords and ultimatums. A real king, one with an iron crown and a pelt slung over his shoulder, would just declare war and be done with it.

Yes, problem is the Victorian mentality is closer to our own modern one, and thus much easier for players to understand and enact.

[Fleugs]

Vix Tiramora now holds Dimwood, Perdan still holds Woolton. The war goals have been exchanged, but in reality, this turns this war into a draw. Ar Mosul was at like 99% taken over by Perdan but Vix charged in and won the battle. Another bloody battle, I love them. Anyway, everything's forcefully wedged open in this war... which is good news! It means even more battles!

There was some minor Tiramoran looting in Woolton, by the way, but it was assured to Perdan that this was not ordered and thus not sanctioned. We'll see where this goes. Perhaps looting should gradually be introduced?  8)

[Indirik]

It's the logical way to turn the fake war into a real one. :)