Atamara's Fate

[Medron Pryde]

I would remind you that I was a common noble when the second-to-last power structure was built.  As much as I would love to take credit for it, I had nothing to do other than following orders and marching to war with the building up of the power of the Cagilan-Taran alliance.

I am happy with taking credit for helping tear it down though.  Something that would not have been possible if the rest of the League of the Eagle elders had not agreed that it needed to be done.

Was it too late for some people?  Absolutely.

But it did happen.  And it did revitalize Atamara.  I'm very proud that in the year I was Tyrant of Tara, I had a small part in helping to overturn the power structure of Atamara and start the war that ended the alliance that stifled war on the continent.

My one big wish is that we could have seen the "Succession Wars" continue and find out just what would have happened.

I know some people have a big hate on for Atamara and are glad it was sunk.  Well I hate fish.  But I don't want fish taken away from everybody else because I don't like fish.  I guess that's just how I think.  I know some people don't think like that, and for that I am sorry.

[Noone you know]

You were already the Ruler of Tara when I tried to get a new war going against Minas Ithil, while stirring up the pot between CE and Talerium by not allowing T. to march across Rielston.

I'm not going to rehash the whole fiasco now, other than to say you would disappear for long periods of time & pop up with, "What? Are they serving sandwiches?"

After swearing to stand by you even if my realm (CE) wouldn't back you in the war, I went to pledge my sword to you to in the supposed war.

You had me instantly banned without even saying Hello because CE demanded it. If you had been looking to cause a rift, you had the perfect RP opportunity.

I'm REALLY sick of reading about how "innocent" you were in everything; you were as terrible as everyone else, and as much at fault as everyone else.

[jaune]

You were already the Ruler of Tara when I tried to get a new war going against Minas Ithil, while stirring up the pot between CE and Talerium by not allowing T. to march across Rielston.

I'm not going to rehash the whole fiasco now, other than to say you would disappear for long periods of time & pop up with, "What? Are they serving sandwiches?"

After swearing to stand by you even if my realm (CE) wouldn't back you in the war, I went to pledge my sword to you to in the supposed war.

You had me instantly banned without even saying Hello because CE demanded it. If you had been looking to cause a rift, you had the perfect RP opportunity.

I'm REALLY sick of reading about how "innocent" you were in everything; you were as terrible as everyone else, and as much at fault as everyone else.

For god sake, Miskel was disaster where ever he roamed. He sure caused conflicts, but mainly internal ones :)

[Noone you know]

That was the whole POINT of him.

That's why I'm so impatient with this "we were working soooooo hard to stir things up..."

No you weren't. Miskel was. All of YOUR energy was spent fighting him to keep the status quo.

[jaune]

Being suicidal, and stirring things up so that you have even slight chanche to survive is diffrent things.

-jaune

[GundamMerc]

Being suicidal, and stirring things up so that you have even slight chanche to survive is diffrent things.

-jaune

And that reasoning is the very cause of Atamara sucking so much, good sir.

[Noone you know]

Let's see -

Some things Miskel did that he got stomped down for:

General & Marshals never spoke to us in Darka, so he rallied nobles to go fight the monsters in the ice.
-- Branded a "troublemaker"

Complained about your old friend the Duke who logged in once per week to keep his Duchy, but wouldn't appoint lords or maintain his regions.
-- Miskel refused to do maintenance in his duchy,  and told others not to. Branded a "troublemaker"

In Talerium, started an army so he could keep the newer players interested by giving them chances to learn how to be marshals and fight monsters.
-- Branded a "troublemaker" for starting an army without permission, and told he had to maintain regions for the dukes

etc, etc, etc. Years of your bull!@#$ about how "we'll have a war just as soon as everyone gets our regions in shape for the Dukes"

Yeah, real !@#$ing "suicidal".

[jaune]

And that reasoning is the very cause of Atamara sucking so much, good sir.

Well, being suicidal was the reason why Atamara went on such situation. One by one smaller realms did something utterly stupid or over bold, without taking account what will happen next. Red Span, BoM, Norrland, Falasan etc.

Earlier we had real good chanche to crush CE, but alliance collapsed, we did real lot work and effort to make it work... to avoid what had happened all those realms which CE had crushed. We had majority of realms agreed to stop CE... but somehow CE were able to convience southeners abandon support to Carelia... and then north started to crumble as well.

Oh, some comments about Miskels doings:

General & Marshals never spoke to us in Darka, so he rallied nobles to go fight the monsters in the ice.
-- Branded a "troublemaker"

All was well and you gained some real respect... then you started to be a bitch and step over higher ranked nobles. That is what made you trouble maker. Not that you rallied nobles to fight trolls, but that you were jumping on peoples toes, those toes which can kick you.

Complained about your old friend the Duke who logged in once per week to keep his Duchy, but wouldn't appoint lords or maintain his regions.
-- Miskel refused to do maintenance in his duchy,  and told others not to. Branded a "troublemaker"

Yes, you increased problems instead of doing what you should do. If someone does poor job, you do poor job too? Way to go...

Problem with Miskel was, that he didnt do well with authorities. You dont know how to lick ones butt to achieve something, arrogance carries you only to somewhere... Then you need to lick some butts to get what you need... after that you can again be arrogant a bit :)

Just declaring war left and right and pissoff everybody in realm and abroad, would have not made Atamara any better... only kill more realms.

[GundamMerc]

Well, being suicidal was the reason why Atamara went on such situation. One by one smaller realms did something utterly stupid or over bold, without taking account what will happen next. Red Span, BoM, Norrland, Falasan etc.

Earlier we had real good chanche to crush CE, but alliance collapsed, we did real lot work and effort to make it work... to avoid what had happened all those realms which CE had crushed. We had majority of realms agreed to stop CE... but somehow CE were able to convience southeners abandon support to Carelia... and then north started to crumble as well.

Oh, some comments about Miskels doings:
All was well and you gained some real respect... then you started to be a bitch and step over higher ranked nobles. That is what made you trouble maker. Not that you rallied nobles to fight trolls, but that you were jumping on peoples toes, those toes which can kick you.
Yes, you increased problems instead of doing what you should do. If someone does poor job, you do poor job too? Way to go...

Problem with Miskel was, that he didnt do well with authorities. You dont know how to lick ones butt to achieve something, arrogance carries you only to somewhere... Then you need to lick some butts to get what you need... after that you can again be arrogant a bit :)

Just declaring war left and right and pissoff everybody in realm and abroad, would have not made Atamara any better... only kill more realms.

No, being overly cautious prudes who wouldn't bread on the off chance that they would choke on it is what made Atamara such a horribly, horribly boring place. If what you said was true; East Island, Dwilight, Beluaterra, and Colonies should all be dead, dreary places with nothing to do. But we find the opposite is true, wars are common, nobles have stuff to do, and the balance of power of individual nations change over time. Compare that to Atamara, where the CE-bloc starts off overwhelmingly powerful and only gets more powerful as time goes on.

Oh, and please don't give me bull!@#$ about not knowing what was going on in Darka, I played their several times throughout my career here.

[jaune]

So what was going on Darka?

Yes, Atamara was a bit diffrent compared to other islands, but suicidality didnt make it any better, only worse. Thats why there was huge attempt to change things. Which blew up. Later there was another attempt and this time Tara was involved... but Atamara run out of time.

What i try to say is that, Miskel kind of characters had no future in Atamara, too much old powerfull nobles, whom expected to being respected, earned or not. If not, then you were troublemaker and booted off.

Atamara gets way too much blaming, there was many other islands, you were not forced to play there. It had its problems, which playerbase tried to fix. If i whine how damn boring some realm, or island is, i get replied "move to somewhere else!"

But incase of Atamara, if someone didnt like, he says "Sink it!". If it was so bad, why it still had so many players?

Why Darka had most nobles in the GAME before ice? if it was so damn sucky island and realm?

-Jaune

[Noone you know]

"Suicidal"?

Seems to me bottom of the sea is about as suicidal as you can get.

Well done ruining what used to be people's favorite island, and causing countless players to quit entirely.

[jaune]

"Suicidal"?

Seems to me bottom of the sea is about as suicidal as you can get.

Well done ruining what used to be people's favorite island, and causing countless players to quit entirely.

With suicidal, i mean it was death to the realm if it alone, without any backup to meddle with CE or its federated partners.

You realize that I and many others were on the island from its start? We played those wonderfull times and it was our favourite island. I think your hate to Atamara is just because your way didnt work(either). You seem to blame everybody else, but yourself the state of Atamara? Especially you are jumping on those who really, really put effort to change things. You tried that too, but failed, like i failed, like few others failed.

I hope there would have been left Atamara alone(I mean also that ice thing, it really destroyed last real opposition of CE).

If there was more need for characters/players to other islands, it would have been enough to forbid more than 1 char per island and give 1 extra character whom ever wants it.

[Victor C]

This topic has grown quite interesting. On one side we have the "IT'S YOUR FAULT!" On the other we have "IT WAS YOUR FAULT!".

Two players aggressively blaming each other for the whole downfall etc.

Being overly aggressive as a minor noble will commonly lead to banishment. Being only a "Butt licker" (Favorite substitute in this post btw) will only lead to more silence and lack of wars. Why not combine the worlds? A fake follower whom wishes destruction to all, more interesting, no? So much potential, yet your sight is narrowing.

The fault was not on certain individuals, the fault belongs to us all. You both did what you thought was best, but it doesn't exactly matter anymore.

You should focus your time on making the other islands better rather than use all this hatred to hurt each other. So many different things to do and yet you ignore it all to complain about a lost island. Why not take your hatred and start fueds and wars that will make the game more interesting? Drama between two characters provides more excitement than a war where you just move every turn and follow orders.

You like Atamara? That's great, it's gone.
You hate Atamara? That's great, it's gone.

Notice the similarities? It's gone.

This is Battlemaster, islands are suppose to be unwinnable and there should be no pride in winning. Read the social contract and you will find my words to be true.

Atamara became exactly what it shouldn't, so it's gone. "It was about to change!" You know what, you had plenty of time to do it before, so too bad.

Please, stop this continuous bickering, you're hurting yourself more than you're proving your points.

Let us hate each other in game and not through the forums. OOC fights ruin the mood, but IC fights bring true enjoyment (I cannot stress that enough).

[jaune]

This topic has grown quite interesting. On one side we have the "IT'S YOUR FAULT!" On the other we have "IT WAS YOUR FAULT!".

Two players aggressively blaming each other for the whole downfall etc.

Being overly aggressive as a minor noble will commonly lead to banishment. Being only a "Butt licker" (Favorite substitute in this post btw) will only lead to more silence and lack of wars. Why not combine the worlds? A fake follower whom wishes destruction to all, more interesting, no? So much potential, yet your sight is narrowing.

The fault was not on certain individuals, the fault belongs to us all. You both did what you thought was best, but it doesn't exactly matter anymore.

You should focus your time on making the other islands better rather than use all this hatred to hurt each other. So many different things to do and yet you ignore it all to complain about a lost island. Why not take your hatred and start fueds and wars that will make the game more interesting? Drama between two characters provides more excitement than a war where you just move every turn and follow orders.

You like Atamara? That's great, it's gone.
You hate Atamara? That's great, it's gone.

Notice the similarities? It's gone.

This is Battlemaster, islands are suppose to be unwinnable and there should be no pride in winning. Read the social contract and you will find my words to be true.

Atamara became exactly what it shouldn't, so it's gone. "It was about to change!" You know what, you had plenty of time to do it before, so too bad.

Please, stop this continuous bickering, you're hurting yourself more than you're proving your points.

Let us hate each other in game and not through the forums. OOC fights ruin the mood, but IC fights bring true enjoyment (I cannot stress that enough).

I think i have had bad output or you have misunderstood me? I dont blame Miskel for ruining or sinking Atamara, i blame him for mocking everybody who happened to love that island. I loved Miskel OOCly, in character he was horrible and were nothing but trouble and it was always great victory to see him move to another realm and know they have to deal with him, especially when he went to CE... shock was quite big to see him elected as PM :D

I still think its good to discuss about this? It's gone, but to discuss what was done to fix it were done by players and developers. What was good, what was bad, how people view it and why? So we learn from our mistakes and successes.

-Jaune

[Victor C]

"Suicidal"?

Seems to me bottom of the sea is about as suicidal as you can get.

Well done ruining what used to be people's favorite island, and causing countless players to quit entirely.

My post was not necessarily about you Jaune, but the overall tone that this topic has been following.

I see a lot of blaming and shaming happening. This is not constructive, but destructive. I understand you have been very calm... However others not so much.

Discussion is a part of growth, but if someone suddenly takes out a flamethrower, growth burns away quickly. ;D