Really Eponlynn?

[JDodger]

yep, it all worked out in the end. now keep those guys busy for a while.

@gundam while perdan is obviously stronger now than sirion, the situation would be a lot different had oli not seceded or been a proxy realm, and regardless sirion's alliance is much stronger than perdan and possesses near-complete dominion over the larger half of the map and other advantages.

its easy to see perdan as the big bad guy in xavax given the situation, but the reality is xavax was screwed as a realm the moment magnus beat viridiana by half a vote.

[Gabanus family]

yep, it all worked out in the end. now keep those guys busy for a while.

@gundam while perdan is obviously stronger now than sirion, the situation would be a lot different had oli not seceded or been a proxy realm, and regardless sirion's alliance is much stronger than perdan and possesses near-complete dominion over the larger half of the map and other advantages.

its easy to see perdan as the big bad guy in xavax given the situation, but the reality is xavax was screwed as a realm the moment magnus beat viridiana by half a vote.

You grocely overestimate Sirion's power here. And Oligarch's seccession brought more people into the north. Had I not done it, Sirion might have had 5 more nobles than it does now, but that's prob it because it would be boring as hell and maybe we'd actually have fewer as people would have left for doing nothing. On the plus side, I could have been sitting on 50k+ by now in gold.

And yeah it's quite easy to see Perdan as the bad guy in the Xavax situation, no matter the reason.

[Vita`]

It all started by asking permission to go through. It was agreed no looting, no TOing, but Eponllyn did loot first which made Perdan to drop off its gloves.

No. Perdan looted Eponllyn first, in Perdan Mines. We didn't loot Perdan until a week an a half later when Perdan refuses to acknowledge their looting. Eponllyn did not loot Perdan first and never would have because looting has always been something very touchy within honour-obsessed Eponllyn, had Perdan kept to its word and honour like Eponllyn. But instead, it took advantage of Eponllyn's honour and mercy with its aggressive militarism.

When it started to look bad for Eponllyn, they surrendered, but refused to terms. They granted passage right to Perdan, but not Vix, which made the war continue. Then they declared hatred... And now they blame Perdan?

Eponllyn did ask nicely, because we really did want to fight a war instead of *constantly* having Perdan/Vix end our wars almost immediately, to continue the war with just Vix, thinking we'd have a better, more equal shot. Perdan/Vix said no, and we said 'okay, fine, theres nothing we can do to object'. And then you ignored us. And TOed Bescanon. And other regions until Perdan City, despite us going 'hey, we agreed to your terms'.

Nemo declaring hatred was a diplomatic mis-step, but really, after everything Perdan has done to Eponllyn since Eponllyn's very founding with the destruction of Ibladesh and creation of Eponllyn in-secession, is entirely understandable knee-jerk response. Perdan has behaved in Hatred of Eponllyn for three+ OOC years, over and over again, save for a small number of months with Fionna as Queen of Perdan. So while Eppy made the mistake of putting it to paper, Perdan already behaved in Hatred long before.

I agree that Perdan is highly militaristic and aggressive, but i dont see that as a game problem. Sucks to be neighbour of this kind of war machine, but as history has shown, they can be brought down and one day they will be again beaten.

I do not see militarism and aggressiveness as inherently a game/player problem, as an in-character problem. I see players who use militarism/aggressiveness as an excuse for Total War on Players in trying to Win the Island as a problem. When playing the bellicose and/or insulting types, one must consider what it would be like playing on the other side of it.

At least, when I was more actively playing Raziella, she was always an offensively arrogant jerk, but I tried (hopefully succeeding) to do it in such a way that the Player was amused more than insulted via their character (people get quite attached, I've noticed). Or with influencing Lurian policy, I consciously made the point to delay and avoid the destruction of realms (like Barca, Asylon) as long as possible to give them utmost chance to survive. And heck, even with Perdan/Eponllyn, my voice was one of those suggesting we *not* destroy Perdan like Perdan destroyed Ibladesh, because we are *better* than that, but offer redemption instead, and maybe we can bring Perdan to see a New Light of small realms and limited wars. Because our players had experienced what it was like to be on the receiving end of Perdan and we did not want to give them the same treatment. Well, that backfired beautifully on Eponllyn. :D

Just as Perdan's epic devastation of raping, slaughtering, and starving everyone between Ibladesh to Semall affected Eponllyn into a policy of never looting civil populations, using looting with utmost discretion in war, usually accompanied by many internal debates and fines, and only against military targets. So Perdan saying 'no looting at all' was perfectly acceptable to us. Until Perdan started looting us. If the Eponllyn-Perdan war proved anything, its the valuelessness of a Perdanite Agreement. Not only the initial war terms, but violating the treaty by taking back Perdan City, which Perdan had *willingly volunteered* having no more claim upon Perdan City for all eternity. Which was the same terms Perdan *forced* on Eponllyn with regard to Ibladesh and Al Arab in order to achieve the puppet state of Perleone (which later had a falling out with Perdan before reuniting more recently).

[Fleugs]

Vita, you really have to let go... I understand your anger, but it doesn't help lashing out like that.

[Vita`]

Quit trying to rewrite history OOCly.

[JDodger]

And yeah it's quite easy to see Perdan as the bad guy in the Xavax situation, no matter the reason.

im sure alara, mn, and perleone would all strongly disagree, as well as vix and perdan obviously.

[GundamMerc]

im sure alara, mn, and perleone would all strongly disagree, as well as vix and perdan obviously.

I saw first-hand that Alara was just continuing the issues that plagued Atamara, Minas Nova was too afraid of Xavax growing powerful, and Perleone is well inside of Perdan's influence at this point.

[JDodger]

looking for allies as a tiny realm in the shadow of a much larger expansionist power really can't be compared to the atamaran issue.

mn was completely justified, magnus wanted to eat them.

perleone, see #1 and #2

[steelabjur@aol.com]

Actually, Warchief tried to ally with Xavax when we went to war with Alara, then joined Alara when JeVondair turned him down. I saw the messages myself. Seems like Minas Nova only wanted to support Alara because they didn't get the chance to have an easy gobble of Alaran regions. Magnus didn't have anything to do with it, Hell he wanted to ally with Alara and focus north on potentially fighting Perleone. Fighting Alara was what the rebels, yourself included, were pushing for, and got as part of the compromise that ended the rebellion.

[JDodger]

abjur, you weren't even part of those type of discussions when magnus was ruler.

im well aware of mn trying to play both sides diplomatically from the beginning. im also well aware that overwhelmingly, mn nobles were anti-xavax way before the rebellion, and that mn consistently tried to play friendly with xavax while working against xavax. im also apparently a lot more aware than you are that magnus always wanted to see mn destroyed and conquered either by xavax or by alara when he was still swearing up and down that robb starfall was his best friend despite all evidence to the contrary, see above.

you seem to forget who blew the whistle on alara and mn trying to form a coalition against xavax, who had the spy in mn that revealed the referendum in which mn voted overwhelmingly, maybe even unanimously, to back alara instead of xavax, who tried to warn you about exactly what has since happened to your poor, silly realm.

right, that was kellan. the evil anti-xavaxian rebel.

ive had enough experience with xavax to understand that the "loyalist" nobles will never have the awareness to realize what actually happened and is happening in their own realm. it doesn't matter to me, because at the end of the day i know that i did everything i could to help xavax and xavax refused to be helped.

so now i get to laugh at xavax while its nobles fall into every mistake i tried to steer them away from, as the destruction i warned them about comes crashing down on them, and in the end i will be gleefully yelling "i told you so" at your retreating backs as you all run for cover, wondering what went so very wrong. it doesn't matter what you yell back over your shoulders.

[GoldPanda]

abjur, you weren't even part of those type of discussions when magnus was ruler.

im well aware of mn trying to play both sides diplomatically from the beginning. im also well aware that overwhelmingly, mn nobles were anti-xavax way before the rebellion, and that mn consistently tried to play friendly with xavax while working against xavax. im also apparently a lot more aware than you are that magnus always wanted to see mn destroyed and conquered either by xavax or by alara when he was still swearing up and down that robb starfall was his best friend despite all evidence to the contrary, see above.

you seem to forget who blew the whistle on alara and mn trying to form a coalition against xavax, who had the spy in mn that revealed the referendum in which mn voted overwhelmingly, maybe even unanimously, to back alara instead of xavax, who tried to warn you about exactly what has since happened to your poor, silly realm.

right, that was kellan. the evil anti-xavaxian rebel.

ive had enough experience with xavax to understand that the "loyalist" nobles will never have the awareness to realize what actually happened and is happening in their own realm. it doesn't matter to me, because at the end of the day i know that i did everything i could to help xavax and xavax refused to be helped.

so now i get to laugh at xavax while its nobles fall into every mistake i tried to steer them away from, as the destruction i warned them about comes crashing down on them, and in the end i will be gleefully yelling "i told you so" at your retreating backs as you all run for cover, wondering what went so very wrong. it doesn't matter what you yell back over your shoulders.

Who are we talking to here, Jdodger or Kellan? :)

[JDodger]

when you have no real counter, resort to pedantry

edit: well, thats not necessarily fair, but ill leave it in case it is.

in case its not, the same silly lines of reasoning and blatant disregard of facts has been thrown at both myself in ooc channels and kellan in ic, to the point that me trying to carefully distinguish between the two is a pointless exercise in over-exactness. in the end, vindication will be both ooc and ic.

[Gabanus family]

Hey Xavax, stop stealing our topic :p This is about our unfairn war, not your rebellion or war. There is a specific topic for that :)

On a more related note, when do you guys think Caligus will join the fray as well to try and end Oligarch entirely? The first noble was already spotted joining the fight.

[steelabjur@aol.com]

Hey Xavax, stop stealing our topic :p This is about our unfairn war, not your rebellion or war. There is a specific topic for that :)

On a more related note, when do you guys think Caligus will join the fray as well to try and end Oligarch entirely? The first noble was already spotted joining the fight.

True enough, sorry we hijacked the thread!

Don't know, I haven't really had enough contact with their new High King yet to get a read on his character. He could go to war with Oligarch, or with Vix, or with the Obsidian Islands because he's feeling chartreuse pogoing camel today and going to war with the Obsidian Islands is what he does on chartreuse pogoing camel days. I don't expect them to make any sort of move until he gets a feel of the political situation he finds himself in however, and how long that takes him is entirely dependent on how close he followed Island politics before he won the election.

[Gabanus family]

True enough, sorry we hijacked the thread!

Don't know, I haven't really had enough contact with their new High King yet to get a read on his character. He could go to war with Oligarch, or with Vix, or with the Obsidian Islands because he's feeling chartreuse pogoing camel today and going to war with the Obsidian Islands is what he does on chartreuse pogoing camel days. I don't expect them to make any sort of move until he gets a feel of the political situation he finds himself in however, and how long that takes him is entirely dependent on how close he followed Island politics before he won the election.

I doubt Caligus would go against Vix, which means they'll prob either war against Oligarch, or against Fallangard making either war much more fun.

Would love to stand corrected on this one however, but I've kind of lost faith by now.