Permanent injuries?

[Zakilevo]

I was thinking... how about adding permanent injuries from torture? I know we already lose skill points from being tortured but how about making them stick permanently? Obviously you don't want every torture to be able to inflict a crippling injury but how about 10% chance to be crippled? I think it will create very interesting interactions between prisoners and judges.

Over the years, I've hardly encountered nobles begging to be not tortured. They just shout how torture will not break them. We already can make them confess letters but even then they don't really care. I think torture should be something people should fear not something they can just dust it off.

[Anaris]

I'm leery about doing anything like this.

I don't have the brain to say much more about it tonight, though. ;)

[Wimpie]

Maybe hear some proposals about how to effectively have this work game mechanics wise?

Just to give some examples:
- Cap swordfighting/jousting skill
-  ...

Also, I was initially thinking (when I started to read your post) about adding Character characteristics (physical). So have an extra field with just some informative physical attributes about your character. Like, 'bad knee', 'limping', 'scar on the face', 'only one eye',... And maybe duels/training matches/battles/especially torturing/.. would add more attributes to this (with a small chance of course). I know these things can just as easily be roleplayed, but it's something that came up in my head and wanted to share.

[Gabanus family]

I agree with the overall sentiment that torture should be feared more. Atm the 'tool' comes at a huge cost for the judge and prob has more impact on the judge than on the guy who's tortured.

Another option would be to have him on slightly wounded for an extended period of time and take away 1 or 2 hours each turn from him for like 4 weeks or so.

[Zakilevo]

Yes Wimpie. That is exactly it. Something like you get injuries ranging from:

Crushed left/right hand: Caps swordfighting/jousting to 60%

Missing left/right arm: Caps swordfighting/jousting to 30%

Missing both: 0% for swordfighting/jousting

Missing left/right eye:  All skills -10%

Blind: All skills -30%

Crushed foot: Caps infiltration to 60%

Legless: Caps swordfighting/jousting/infiltration to 30%

Something like that

[steelabjur@aol.com]

Working with Zakky's idea:

Missing Tongue: -X% Oratory, Leadership
Ugly Facial Scar: -X% Oratory, Leadership, Trading
Eunuch: -X% Leadership
Tattooed*:  -X% Oratory, Leadership, Trading
Branded*:  -X% Oratory, Leadership, Trading
Cut Nose: -X% Oratory, Leadership, Trading

*In this case, the tattoo or Brand would be something objectionable, such as the word "Convict", in a conspicuous area like the forehead or cheeks.

[JDodger]

dont like it, judges will become too trolly and players will get upset by permanent nerfs to their chars. imo the bad points outweigh any minor upside

[GundamMerc]

dont like it, judges will become too trolly and players will get upset by permanent nerfs to their chars. imo the bad points outweigh any minor upside

Agreed. I'd prefer purely flavor text injuries.

[Logar]

I could possibly live with temporary nerfs, but not permanent.

Permanent could lead to a judge being feared so much, that nobody would want to take any risks-- boring for both parties.

Infiltrators already have a random chance to lose some skill when tortured, don't they?

The other side of the coin though-- Judges do very often get nerfed for their acts, in the form of honour and prestige loss (once had 5 prestige loss in one single hit).

[Zakilevo]

Judges should be feared. People don't give a damn about tortures at all. They write messages acting like tortures did nothing to them.

How about this.

Torture has x% chance to permanently injure a character. However, if you torture someone, that person gets released immediately. Plus if you want to make tortures will something you want to think twice on, make it also lift bans too.

[Sacha]

Judges should be feared. People don't give a damn about tortures at all. They write messages acting like tortures did nothing to them.

How about this.

Torture has x% chance to permanently injure a character. However, if you torture someone, that person gets released immediately. Plus if you want to make tortures will something you want to think twice on, make it also lift bans too.

Torture is too wonky to pour into fixed code, because it leaves one side completely helpless and the other incomplete control.

If you hate someone to a point where torture is an option, why would you want to lift his bans in the process? Conversely, if you already banned him, why not just execute him and be done with it?

We have Akkan who writes the most gruesome torture RPs that would leave the victims dead or at the very least absolutely crippled for life (which kind of falls under bad RP sportsmanship too if you ask me), but a week later they are gallivanting about again, sometimes with no skin left, or all their toes cut off, or burnt to a crisp.

And let's not forget the War Island, where torture was pretty much a hazing ritual. You weren't a proper warrior until you'd spent some time in the enemy torture chamber. A formality for those who were captured in battle.

Just remove torturing nobles altogether, except if both realms are at Hatred. RP-wise it adds almost nothing, and I can't recall ever having found much useful info in the torture reports anyway.

[Zakilevo]

I wouldn't remove torture at all. How about giving people a choice? You can choose to spill the beans or stay quiet. If you stay quiet, it means you won't talk during the interrogation time and the enemy judge can torture you for information or just because he / she is a sadist.

If you choose to spill the beans, enemies can get a portion of your letters without leaving permanent injuries.

[Attano]

Torture is too wonky to pour into fixed code, because it leaves one side completely helpless and the other incomplete control.

If you hate someone to a point where torture is an option, why would you want to lift his bans in the process? Conversely, if you already banned him, why not just execute him and be done with it?

We have Akkan who writes the most gruesome torture RPs that would leave the victims dead or at the very least absolutely crippled for life (which kind of falls under bad RP sportsmanship too if you ask me), but a week later they are gallivanting about again, sometimes with no skin left, or all their toes cut off, or burnt to a crisp.

And let's not forget the War Island, where torture was pretty much a hazing ritual. You weren't a proper warrior until you'd spent some time in the enemy torture chamber. A formality for those who were captured in battle.

Just remove torturing nobles altogether, except if both realms are at Hatred. RP-wise it adds almost nothing, and I can't recall ever having found much useful info in the torture reports anyway.

Daimons. Don't question it X3. They are pretty fun to read though.

[Sacha]

I wouldn't remove torture at all. How about giving people a choice? You can choose to spill the beans or stay quiet. If you stay quiet, it means you won't talk during the interrogation time and the enemy judge can torture you for information or just because he / she is a sadist.

If you choose to spill the beans, enemies can get a portion of your letters without leaving permanent injuries.

If the judge is a sadist, why would they even care if you talk or not? Will a sadist stay his hand just because you say "Don't torture me i'll talk!"?

This is just going to lead paranoid players to include even fewer people in important matters, since now everyone can just spill the beans to avoid torture (and they will, if it does any actual lasting damage). As far as I can tell, most torture isn't even done to get info, but mainly to screw with hated enemies.