Modifying TMP Training Reductions

[Jens Namtrah]

Am I wrong then? TMP has been around for at least two years, iirc. For every realm on Dwilight that complains about the effects of TMP, there is one that has barely had a warning. Luria Nova began getting them, and they suffered some minor penalties from it, and then they sent troops to assist PeL and hey presto, problem solved. In the specific case of Madina/Aurvandil, how is TMP to be blamed for the stalemate in the war? In the specific case of Fissoa, there are plenty of hordes to be fought for those who are willing to leave their borders. In the specific case of D'Hara, all they need to do to find battle is sail to the east.

If they choose to stay holed up, then that's their choice, but then they don't get to complain about not finding enough battles. If they want to persist in their old ways, then by all means they should do so. Meanwhile, others will adapt to the situation and figure out how to deal with it IC, rather than come here and complain that they're being treated unfairly. If you act like a child, I'll treat you as one. The code is the same for everyone, as are the effects. If you can't adapt, you'll perish, just as nature intended.

+1000

For every realm that sits and complains, another one spent their time figuring out how TMP works and what to do about it, and is doing just fine.

You think "everyone" is complaining about it. Wrong - Everyone who comes here to complain about it is complaining.

[De-Legro]

my character has been sitting in soniel (a town) for a few weeks now (barring some movement out to bash some monsters) whilst the other realm has been sitting on the other side of the pond. or whatever it is.

that's not all that different from candiels and the tower.

i think the next time a map is done, there should simply not be any fortifiable choke points.


incidentally, rio hasn't had a rogue outbreak for weeks now, whether on rio land or from blighted areas. i'm wondering if rogue hasn't been turned down somehow, perhaps globally.

back in summerdale, there were quite a few rogue spawns, i think quite probably in rogue areas. can't say i've seen any in d'hara. that said, i did go pass some down in Aurvandil and did write some junk rp msg about that.

Actually Arcaea is happily ensuring our regions are in top shape and chasing some monsters around. We keep hearing about these northern characters that fear nothing and are unstoppable in battle, but apparently putting part of one of our armies in a choke point has cowered them into inaction. Perhaps when more important things are handled Arcaea might look north again?

[Kain]

Actually Arcaea is happily ensuring our regions are in top shape and chasing some monsters around. We keep hearing about these northern characters that fear nothing and are unstoppable in battle, but apparently putting part of one of our armies in a choke point has cowered them into inaction. Perhaps when more important things are handled Arcaea might look north again?

You're more than welcome to taunt us IG but let's leave the forum to OOC-things, okay? ;)

[Chenier]

Hey, that is not half-bad.

Let's see what the rest think.

Tell me the difference between this and the insane region stat drops we had at first?

It's just as bad.

[Kain]

Tell me the difference between this and the insane region stat drops we had at first?

It's just as bad.

You can have the army in a region that you don't mind that they loot :p and then they'll leave the rest alone.

[Chenier]

+1000

For every realm that sits and complains, another one spent their time figuring out how TMP works and what to do about it, and is doing just fine.

You think "everyone" is complaining about it. Wrong - Everyone who comes here to complain about it is complaining.

And what you fail to understand is that some realms are extremely favored over others when it comes to fighting rogues. There are none anywhere near D'Hara, for example, and if battles are not big enough, which they tend not to be, TMP is not staved off for long, if at all. Hell, we are talking about chasing away all the adventurers from our lands, because we never see rogues spawn. Who in their right minds would have wanted to have rogues spawn in their lands two years ago? Just thinking about it exasperates me.

Another example is Fheuv'n. It is in war. All it did was fighting, an average of a battle every two days. But when it stopped fighting a bit to takeover a rogue region, it then got hit by TMP as it was marching for war, forcing it to do a kamikaze battle it might not have otherwise done.

Furthermore, it also means that realms are way more vulnerable to bugs. Fheuv'n for example, again. When we got to Nothoi, we were gonna loot that place to the ground, as we easily defeated the defending forces. But a bug prevented us from doing so. This in return made TMP code hate us, because our battles were too small and we didn't loot enough. Now that we are in Rio lands, bugs are preventing us from looting *again*, meaning we have yet to have had any opportunities to loot in our two wars. How long 'till TMP hits us again? This is a small realm that is at war, fighting regularly, and it got the TMP notice and effects.

Some are "adapting" to it. Figuring out ways to deal with TMP doesn't mean that they are doing what would be the most fun. And it doesn't mean they are operating in the same context as others who aren't, and it certainly doesn't mean that TMP is contributing to the game experience.

As long as TMP remains so brutal, many people will complain, and rightfully so.

[Indirik]

And what you fail to understand is that some realms are extremely favored over others when it comes to fighting rogues. There are none anywhere near D'Hara, for example, and if battles are not big enough, which they tend not to be, TMP is not staved off for long, if at all.

Correct. And those same realms that are "favored" when it comes to having lots of rogues to fight are also unfavored when it comes to having secure borders, and fully developed regions. Astrum, for example, has loads of rogues to fight. We never get TMP warnings. But what we do get are constant rogue attacks across nearly all of our borders. So, yeah, we don't have TMP problems. But why do you think we have the biggest standing army on Dwilight, by a factor of at least two? It's because we need it to save our regions from being ravaged and driven rogue. So, yeah, we have lots of rogues to fight. But D'Hara has safe and secure borders, and the freedom to use their army to do something other than fight for their lives every day.

As long as TMP remains so brutal, many people will complain, and rightfully so.

As odd as it may sound, I agree that the effects of it are too fast to get going, can have too little warning, and build up way too fast. (I didn't know that you could get your first warning, then have penalties hit 2 days later. Way too short of a warning.) The dev team is talking  about ways to modify it, and adapt it to make it better do what it's supposed to do.

[Chenier]

Correct. And those same realms that are "favored" when it comes to having lots of rogues to fight are also unfavored when it comes to having secure borders, and fully developed regions. Astrum, for example, has loads of rogues to fight. We never get TMP warnings. But what we do get are constant rogue attacks across nearly all of our borders. So, yeah, we don't have TMP problems. But why do you think we have the biggest standing army on Dwilight, by a factor of at least two? It's because we need it to save our regions from being ravaged and driven rogue. So, yeah, we have lots of rogues to fight. But D'Hara has safe and secure borders, and the freedom to use their army to do something other than fight for their lives every day.

Yet Astrum managed to destroy a rather powerful realm without any significant trouble, despite all of these rogues? Clearly the rogues are not as threatening as you suggest.

Therefore, Astrum has the choice to fight other human realms or not to, either not resulting in TMP issues. If they don't have enemies or don't want to risk a war, they can do so without penalty. Other realms, though, don't have this luxury. It's fight other human realms, or do nothing, and while the former might get rid of TMP, it might also not.

As odd as it may sound, I agree that the effects of it are too fast to get going, can have too little warning, and build up way too fast. (I didn't know that you could get your first warning, then have penalties hit 2 days later. Way too short of a warning.) The dev team is talking  about ways to modify it, and adapt it to make it better do what it's supposed to do.

This has always been my point. I have nothing against troops that don't fight losing training, as it adds realism and opportunities for others to attack. But it has to be really, really slow, slow enough so that training your troops regularly can counter it, so that people don't do what they would otherwise consider to be stupid things (like kamikazing against a city or chasing away advies) as they panic before it. There's nothing exciting about a war that was declared because of game mechanics and which is fought in ways dictated by game mechanics. May as well vote for bots to rule us when that happens.

[Sacha]

Yet Astrum managed to destroy a rather powerful realm without any significant trouble, despite all of these rogues? Clearly the rogues are not as threatening as you suggest.

Therefore, Astrum has the choice to fight other human realms or not to, either not resulting in TMP issues. If they don't have enemies or don't want to risk a war, they can do so without penalty. Other realms, though, don't have this luxury. It's fight other human realms, or do nothing, and while the former might get rid of TMP, it might also not.

Astrum didn't so much win the war as Caerwyn lost it, I'd say. The crippling famine was the major factor.

And as for luxury... I wouldn't call it a luxury. The way it stands now, TMP is gonna get majorly nerfed. But, the rogues won't be. And then you will have the luxury of not having 10,000 CS threatening your borders at all times, while Astrum still has to remain on their toes. 

[Gustav Kuriga]

Yes, and that's the risk you run with having a very large border with rogue lands.  And since you were not a part of Astrum, you would not know how close we came to having our cities half starved from rogues coming over the borders, Chenier. Not that I disagree with you, without a civilized realm on its borders, Astrum is always going to be nearly overstretched defending its borders.

[Bedwyr]

In case this was missed:

Tom concurs that TMP is not working as currently implemented, and started a discussion within the dev team on something to accomplish the same goal that will work better.

[Phellan]

In case this was missed:

Tom concurs that TMP is not working as currently implemented, and started a discussion within the dev team on something to accomplish the same goal that will work better.

Now. . . if we had some patience. :P

Heck I'm happy with the Estate Changes :D   Can't wait till they go to testing.

[vonGenf]

Tell me the difference between this and the insane region stat drops we had at first?

It's just as bad.

You would only get stats drop if you choose not to wage war and keep your defending army. Other choices would be to actually wage war, which you would remain able to do so without having to wait for a big battle to show up, thus avoiding IVF's problem, or to disband your army and stockpile gold, which I guess would be D'Hara's choice.

[Tom]

Note: We are currently discussing TMP internally. There may be changes.

[Anaris]

And what you fail to understand is that some realms are extremely favored over others when it comes to fighting rogues. There are none anywhere near D'Hara, for example,

Sorry, but that's just not true.  If you were to head east, you'd find plenty of them very quickly.  You're just used to thinking of the Lighthouse as being a dead end.