Modifying TMP Training Reductions

[Telrunya]

So the Veinsermoot is not a known entity to Nobles outside of the Marrocidens. And the more intricate workings of the Marrocidens are, to the outside eye, and perhaps to the inside eye as well, rather utterly mindbogglingly confusing. What's wrong with that? I see absolutely no problems with this IG, so there really shouldn't be much issues about it on the Forums. I don't mind if outsiders don't know about the Veinsermoot, that just makes things more fun. For an outsider, perhaps the Veinsermoot, once known, is one of those quirks of those weird Marrocidens people, which makes you happy you're not one of them.

As for Jens, he could have perhaps contacted higher ups in Madina about his plan to attack via D'Hara and Barca, which would have given him some more information on the situation, presumably. He did not for reasons already explained. It just seems Jens has made, IG, an error in judgement of the situation in the Marrocidens, and is now suffering the consequences of it. It was a bold move and we've seen plenty of times in BM where such a bold move works out rather splendidly. Sadly, the nature of such bold moves means that they also don't work plenty of times.

As for a more OOC side of IG things for those interested:
D'Hara was informed of Jens by Aurvandil, who eagerly tried to ask for support once more with this infraction from Madina. Marche tried to tell it off there being the possibility that Jens travelled via Candiels, but then he travelled back through D'Haran lands. He considered Jens to be too arrogant and to be an unneeded danger. His outright disrespect in Madina (solely based onone letter Marche received from the Grand Doge and the letter he send to D'Hara) showed to him Jens is simply a liability, so he attempted to chase him away quickly with some strong words. D'Hara has issues with both Aurvandil and Madina, and buys Food from both of them at the same time. While D'Hara's Lords favour Aurvandil more, Marche favours Madina more. Jens' attacks has, in his eyes, made Barca even more troublesome (As the Suffete seems to lean towards Aurvandil) and, more importantly, decreased the support inside D'Hara for any possible attempt to aid Madina. If it ever comes that far that is, as Marche wishes to ensure D'Hara will get enough Food from Madina alone (As Aurvandil would fall away as a food source) and has protection from others against Luria Nova and Pian and Luries first (Since Port Nebel made him dead-scared about that), though I don't think there will be much issues with the latter once the former is accomplished, assuming D'Haran Lords support Marche.

Note that Hireshmont has already nicely mentioned inside the Veinsermoot that it would be absolutely fine, for example, for Barca to aid Aurvandil while D'Hara would aid Madina. However, at this moment, Aurvandil still supplies a lot of Food and Marche doesn't feel he can get the support of his Lords for a War to aid Madina. And he got frustrated with Madina as the Grand Doge and him seem to be talking two miles past each other with better Trade Relations.

[Sypher]

Can the Dwilight tangent get split out from this thread?

I totally agree that there are realms that don't share enough information with the whole realm, but TMP wasn't meant to magically make realms share more information with the realm at large to the best of my knowledge.

Some thoughts on changing TMP: (Yeah I know some of these have probably already been mentioned. I thought Chenier had some good ideas for changes to TMP earlier in the thread.)

1. Realms should have more warning before penalties start being applied.

2. What I'd like to see is an exponential function for whether a unit's training decreases with a floor so that it wouldn't drop below a certain point. Maybe 20-25 for the floor? or at least make the % chance that training drops at that point low. That way units with high training would see decreases the fastest but units with moderate to low training wouldn't see large drops.

3. It would also be positive to have TMP effects stop for a short period whenever a new Ruler is elected or at least in cases where the Ruler is protested out of office. Would give the new government some breathing room to change things.

4. Make underground rebels troops immune/resistant to TMP effects.

5. TMP effects not applied to units in enemy territory or beyond a certain distance from the realm.

[egamma]

4. Make underground rebels troops immune/resistant to TMP effects.

Wouldn't that just encourage fake rebellions?

[Telrunya]

Yes, that one in particular is perhaps a bit easy to abuse, but I like the way of thinking.

[Sypher]

Wouldn't that just encourage fake rebellions?

Yeah, that one might need some more work.

Another idea: make protests against gov't members more effective if TMP is in effect so its easier to boot the ruler.

[vonGenf]

2. What I'd like to see is an exponential function for whether a unit's training decreases with a floor so that it wouldn't drop below a certain point. Maybe 20-25 for the floor? or at least make the % chance that training drops at that point low. That way units with high training would see decreases the fastest but units with moderate to low training wouldn't see large drops.

I think part of the current problems is that the function is exponential. Exponentials work in a way that the effect is really slow at first, and then at some threshold it gets very fast. That's bad as once you passed the threshold you're pretty much screwed, but before the threshold you don't get much effect.

A power law would be much better. Power laws are scale invariant. Roughly, this means that every day will be worst than the next by a similar amount, with no set threshold.

[Gustav Kuriga]

Actually, exponentially either gets much faster, or much slower, when moving up or down in the function. It would actually get much slower, in this case, as you lose training. Once it hits a certain point, say 20 training, it will be so slow as to effectively not be going down anymore. Leaving a unit that is still able to fight in combat, but not nearly as effective as one with 70 training.

[vonGenf]

Actually, exponentially either gets much faster, or much slower, when moving up or down in the function. It would actually get much slower, in this case, as you lose training. Once it hits a certain point, say 20 training, it will be so slow as to effectively not be going down anymore. Leaving a unit that is still able to fight in combat, but not nearly as effective as one with 70 training.

You mean something like this:

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=graph+0.8%2F%28e^%28%28x-10%29%2F2%29%2B1%29%2B.2%2C+x+from+0+to+30+y+from+0+to+1

With x being days and y being training? It could work, but it still clearly has a threshold after which it goes down.

A power law would be like this:

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=graph+0.4*%28%281-.01*x^2%29%2F%281%2B.01*x^2%29%29%2B.6%2C+x+from+0+to+30+y+from+0+to+2

This one starts having an an effect quicker, and the effect is small but noticeable. It doesn't speed up very much. After a long time, you just reach the floor.

(Note: copy the full link to see, I'm not sure how to force the parse to recognize it)

[Indirik]

This:

Code Select Expand

[url=http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=graph+0.8%2F%28e^%28%28x-10%29%2F2%29%2B1%29%2B.2%2C+x+from+0+to+30+y+from+0+to+1]Equation 1[/url]

[url=http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=graph+0.4*%28%281-.01*x^2%29%2F%281%2B.01*x^2%29%29%2B.6%2C+x+from+0+to+30+y+from+0+to+2]Equation 2[/url]


Produces this:
Equation 1

Equation 2

[vonGenf]

Thanks!

[Bedwyr]

Another idea: make protests against gov't members more effective if TMP is in effect so its easier to boot the ruler.

I really, really like this.

[Perth]

Don't know where I got that idea. Rather paucity of in-game info to go on, and Jens had never been to Barca before. In any case, they have separate governments and should be expected to make their own decisions on things.

"Friendly" doesn't have to mean you rent movies together. It can mean you have an understanding that is mutually beneficial.

The point you completely missed is that the "world view" I laid out is a completely reasonable one, and I don't need some jerks coming on the forums and telling me I'm stupid because I looked at all the in-game information available to me and came up with some ideas that didn't happen to match their little privately created, coffee clutch version.

Sounds to me more like you're the one being insulting and are pissed off because you made assumptions that were wrong and screwed up. Furthermore, from what I can tell you didn't even make an attempt to ask anyone who might actually know the reality of the situation for your own clarification. You can get mad all you want because you took SOME (obviously not all) of the in-game information available to you and judged wrong, but in the end its your own fault not anyone else's.