A modification to distance from capital

[Stue (DC)]

I think, if distance from capital could be modified in a way, that, for instance, half of problems come from absolute distance from capital, and the other half would be related to distance from duchy center, that could eventually be one simple step to give more sense to duchy topography, region joining certain duchies would have more meaning, and there would be somewhat more game about it.

Yes, that would give slight relief to larger realms, but why not, if power of the realm is to much extent measured by number of duchies why cities would not contribute to realm stability that way.

[Indirik]

This is a concept that has been discussed several times. It is an intriguing idea. It would penalize large, single-duchy realms, and help realms with a larger proportion of cities. Ba;ance would probably be tough.

[Carna]

Isn't the balance there already though? As I see it, its not as if the realms with less cities are facing problems. The more cities you have, the more peasants you have to feed. Food, in my experience, is a fairly important part of any realm's survival and expansion. Can't do much if most of your regions are starving and you're bleeding population. There's nothing players can do about how the cities are spread, and I doubt they'd be spread any differently were this introduced, but would it not simply be a fact of life? Some realms are made up of tiny cities. Consider OW on FEI. Other realms have a single big city and no others. Luck of the draw as to where your realm is situated. There's no complaining of balance there and I don't see how this could change things that much. I've never seen distance from capital do the damage that TMP can, and the suggestion seems to be that being closer to the Duchy seat negates that penalty to some degree. Doing that, rather than having it as a benefit, would also answer the question of regions right by the capital getting a double-bonus, as it would simply be no penalty. Course, that's not me saying I think it would be a bad thing for proximity to have a benefit, but even limiting the distance penalty is a benefit.

The question, I think, is more focused on how it might effect the landscape of realms and duchies. Would the implementation of this change encourage the less patriotic lords to change their region loyalties to take advantage? And would others continue to suffer distance penalties to be a part of a Duchy for political/loyalty reasons rather than changing allegiance to a closer Duchy? Would regions reach a point where they're far enough from the capital and the ducal seat to actually take a double hit?

I dunno if I'd say this is a good idea. Interesting though. I am of the opinion that the Duchy should play a greater role in a noble's life than it does, for the most part, at the moment. Whether this will have that effect, I can't say, but it does add another layer to these sort of IC decisions. I like that myself, but is it an unnecessary layer of complication?

Finton.

[Chenier]

Isn't the balance there already though? As I see it, its not as if the realms with less cities are facing problems. The more cities you have, the more peasants you have to feed. Food, in my experience, is a fairly important part of any realm's survival and expansion. Can't do much if most of your regions are starving and you're bleeding population. There's nothing players can do about how the cities are spread, and I doubt they'd be spread any differently were this introduced, but would it not simply be a fact of life? Some realms are made up of tiny cities. Consider OW on FEI. Other realms have a single big city and no others. Luck of the draw as to where your realm is situated. There's no complaining of balance there and I don't see how this could change things that much. I've never seen distance from capital do the damage that TMP can, and the suggestion seems to be that being closer to the Duchy seat negates that penalty to some degree. Doing that, rather than having it as a benefit, would also answer the question of regions right by the capital getting a double-bonus, as it would simply be no penalty. Course, that's not me saying I think it would be a bad thing for proximity to have a benefit, but even limiting the distance penalty is a benefit.

The question, I think, is more focused on how it might effect the landscape of realms and duchies. Would the implementation of this change encourage the less patriotic lords to change their region loyalties to take advantage? And would others continue to suffer distance penalties to be a part of a Duchy for political/loyalty reasons rather than changing allegiance to a closer Duchy? Would regions reach a point where they're far enough from the capital and the ducal seat to actually take a double hit?

I dunno if I'd say this is a good idea. Interesting though. I am of the opinion that the Duchy should play a greater role in a noble's life than it does, for the most part, at the moment. Whether this will have that effect, I can't say, but it does add another layer to these sort of IC decisions. I like that myself, but is it an unnecessary layer of complication?

Finton.

The idea behind the suggestion, AFAIK, was to encourage a more even distribution of regions to the duchies. As it is, the game heavily advantages realms who have all of their regions aligned to the capital's duchy over those who have them spread over many, because of the maintenance penalties when outside of your duchy.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

Makes me kind of wonder why people don't just align all their non-city and non-stronghold regions to the capital and leave the cities and strongholds as sole members of their respective duchies. That would make maintenance mostly a breeze, and for those lonely cities, who cares, unless they're really big, in which case...make that your capital. Strongholds can hold out on their own anyway so meh. Always been a fan of intentionally letting resource sink cities stay rogue (meaning high consumption for gold income that doesn't justify the dedication of food and knights), take over all surrounding regions, and have a nicely located big city as your capital. The occasional monsters and undead from those cities can help ward off too much peace and give some free training.

Unfortunately not many locations allow for this too well. Oligarch on EC could work as well as possibly the similarly located Topenah.

[Chenier]

Makes me kind of wonder why people don't just align all their non-city and non-stronghold regions to the capital and leave the cities and strongholds as sole members of their respective duchies.

Where on earth do you play? In most realms I've seen, 90% of the regions are aligned to the capital. And the few that aren't are 75% because of historical reasons and the new lord simply not caring.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

"Most", even 99 %, is a far cry from "Align ALL of your freaking non-city non-stronghold regions to your capital". For some places it's geographically impossible though.

But I am not saying that you put most of your townsland/rural/badland/woodland/mountain regions to your capital. Even 99.999% is no good if you have one qualified region that is not part of the capital's duchy. Imperial regions due to recent acquisition are exempt, but obviously have to meet the standards if they become qualified after a week.

So Chenier, compare what I just said, even in my original message of "ALL REGIONS" to your point of 90% of most realms' regions. Yeah, see what I'm saying now?

But of course, this is theorycrafting. I doubt anyone in their self-righteous and/or ambitious mind would allow that to happen.

[Chenier]

"Most", even 99 %, is a far cry from "Align ALL of your freaking non-city non-stronghold regions to your capital". For some places it's geographically impossible though.

But I am not saying that you put most of your townsland/rural/badland/woodland/mountain regions to your capital. Even 99.999% is no good if you have one qualified region that is not part of the capital's duchy. Imperial regions due to recent acquisition are exempt, but obviously have to meet the standards if they become qualified after a week.

So Chenier, compare what I just said, even in my original message of "ALL REGIONS" to your point of 90% of most realms' regions. Yeah, see what I'm saying now?

But of course, this is theorycrafting. I doubt anyone in their self-righteous and/or ambitious mind would allow that to happen.

If you force it upon people, you can achieve 100% of non-ducal seats without a problem, imo. That people spontaneously concentrate on the capital duchy, on their own and without instructions to do so, at such rates, is impressive in itself. 100% compliance ain't required to state general trends.

And as you would discard regions that were just acquired, I would also discard regions whose lord just doesn't give a !@#$ or whose primary concern isn't stats. Then you'd get that 100% you desire.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

If we were seriously "powergaming" this realm, then I'd finally find out whether 3 bad marks can kick out a region lord. No point giving up a perfectly good rural region, or a rich mountain region, just because its current lord is underqualified.

Boot him out, get in new blood. Hey, that just solved two problems at once!

1: Your lord sucks. IR doesn't protect him from getting booted from his lordship for being a sucky lord. People don't have the right to have any positions (Even oaths aren't protected under IR just FYI). Now you can replace him with a more competent person, or rather, someone who will listen to your every command.

2: Social mobility!!!! Hey, because people keep talking about that term as if it means something, this will allow the despotic ruler to give the semblance that he gives a flying procreative act about people moving up in his realm. Mostly though, if you're a smart guy you'll find guys who are either too dumb to think on their own or who don't care enough about being subversive elements and/or intrarealm conflict stuff that they do "phor dee lulz".

And so you have the map to ensure that your realm is a megapower. Insert evil cackle here I suppose.

Now before anyone starts whining about how "NOT PHUN!!1 OMGBBQwithA1steaksauce" that would be...that might be because of some complicating reasons. For example, you might be sour graping it, because in fact, YOU want to be the dude calling the shots. Nothing wrong with that. Lots of us want to be the big boss even if we aren't.

Or...maybe you are one of those "4 D lolz!" guys who likes showing that there will always exist humans who are manipulative and scheming bastards no matter what environment. But hey, some people do in fact find that fun, so my contention is that some people can also find the other end of the spectrum fun as well. You know, being a dude who just clicks links. Some people do in fact enjoy that, you know? Less work for them, and less time spent. The rewards are seeing that your unit grew in strength, beat the solid waste products out of your enemies' egestive orifice, get some gold, etc.

[Telrunya]

While Capitals generally have more regions, probably due various reasons, I do see the Duchies all having their own set of regions most of the time. Far from the mentioned 90%. I only have to look at my current Realms to find 3 (technically 4, but D'Hara doesn't really count) examples that show different.

[Indirik]

Where on earth do you play? In most realms I've seen, 90% of the regions are aligned to the capital. And the few that aren't are 75% because of historical reasons and the new lord simply not caring.

A quick check of EC:
Sirion, Westmoor, Perdan, and Ibladesh are all rather evenly distributed. Caligus is capital-heavy. Possibly because Isadril is isolated with no regions that could possibly be in its duchy, and Fontan city is a very new acquisition.

A check of AT:
BoM, Carelia, Coria, CE (although CE is a slight bit capital heavy), Darka, Eston, Suville, Tara are all very well distributed. Talerium and MI are capital heavy, but still not bad.

BT:
Fronen, Melhed, Old Grehk, Riombara all look fine. Sint is 66% capital duchy,  but I'm ot sure what the geography is, though.

In fact, out of these three islands, Enweil is by far the worst, with Caligus close behind. Probably the only two that would strike me as regions being unreasonably clustered in the capital duchy. But I don't know Enweil history. And given what I know of Caligus history, I could see how that could have happened in an IC manner.

So, I really don't know what realms you're talking about. Observation bias, maybe? ("I play in Enweil. Enweil does this. Therefore all realms do this." ?)

[Indirik]

That people spontaneously concentrate on the capital duchy, on their own and without instructions to do so, at such rates, is impressive in itself. 100% compliance ain't required to state general trends.

This just doesn't happen. At all. It's not a trend by any stretch of the imagination. You're looking at what happened in Enweil and claiming that it happens everywhere. It simply does not happen.

[Chenier]

A quick check of EC:
Sirion, Westmoor, Perdan, and Ibladesh are all rather evenly distributed. Caligus is capital-heavy. Possibly because Isadril is isolated with no regions that could possibly be in its duchy, and Fontan city is a very new acquisition.

A check of AT:
BoM, Carelia, Coria, CE (although CE is a slight bit capital heavy), Darka, Eston, Suville, Tara are all very well distributed. Talerium and MI are capital heavy, but still not bad.

BT:
Fronen, Melhed, Old Grehk, Riombara all look fine. Sint is 66% capital duchy,  but I'm ot sure what the geography is, though.

In fact, out of these three islands, Enweil is by far the worst, with Caligus close behind. Probably the only two that would strike me as regions being unreasonably clustered in the capital duchy. But I don't know Enweil history. And given what I know of Caligus history, I could see how that could have happened in an IC manner.

So, I really don't know what realms you're talking about. Observation bias, maybe? ("I play in Enweil. Enweil does this. Therefore all realms do this." ?)

Heh, Enweil. Iato just grew to a decent size. 2 months ago all regions were aligned to Fengen.

Observation bias perhaps, but I wasn't only thinking of Enweil. Maybe things changed recently, I don't know, but my experience has shown me that regions favour the capital over other duchies unless there are solid reasons not to.

D'Hara obviously doesn't count.

[egamma]

Heh, Enweil. Iato just grew to a decent size. 2 months ago all regions were aligned to Fengen.

Observation bias perhaps, but I wasn't only thinking of Enweil. Maybe things changed recently, I don't know, but my experience has shown me that regions favour the capital over other duchies unless there are solid reasons not to.

D'Hara obviously doesn't count.

Well, many realms have a single duchy, so you need to exclude them from your calculations.

[Chenier]

Well, many realms have a single duchy, so you need to exclude them from your calculations.

Too bad I can't really remember these details.