Magic On EC

[MTYL]

I would also note that the point of scrolls is that the characters themselves are too weak to cast their own magic, but must use a 'ritual recipe', if you will. The spellcasting skill is just how successful they are at completing the complex, confusing ritual written on the scroll.

Adjusting how long wizards stay in a region after completing a scroll sounds like a good adjustment.

I agree with this person. If changes are to be made they should be less global and nuclear. Small changes like making wizards more travelly and maybe reducing their amount on EC would be more fitting than outright getting rid of magic everywhere except BT.

[Gabanus family]

I agree with this person. If changes are to be made they should be less global and nuclear. Small changes like making wizards more travelly and maybe reducing their amount on EC would be more fitting than outright getting rid of magic everywhere except BT.

Well right now the problems with magic are simply too great, but it won't be removed entirely from lands like EC unfortunately.

Funnily enough though, when I first started playing magic and scrolls were not part of the game, they simply didn't exist. So why would removing them be so nuclear, when this game very long was perfect to play without it, in fact it was the core of the game. Magic was always meant to be no more than a small addition without a lot of impact to add a little bit of RP flavor. These days, with the changes made throughout the past year we've seen its impact spike. Spells are far too wide spread, it's still too simple and easy to cast them, despite the skill and in worst case we'll just get a magician per realm, which makes no sense. If we really move this way, I move that we make spell casting the same as infil stuff. If it goes wrong you can get captured and banned and later executed.

Magic has become an extremely powerfull weapon to be used frequently and at will, without any real possible negative consequences. If we allow magic, then make it backfire half of the time, or impose great risk like the risk of being banned upon failure. It's only normal people try to execute magicians isn't it?

[Anaris]

Funnily enough though, when I first started playing magic and scrolls were not part of the game, they simply didn't exist. So why would removing them be so nuclear, when this game very long was perfect to play without it, in fact it was the core of the game.

That's not a particularly good argument, as you could say just the same about infiltrators, adventurers, priests, guilds/religions, and every island but the EC and Colonies.

Magic has become an extremely powerfull weapon to be used frequently and at will, without any real possible negative consequences. If we allow magic, then make it backfire half of the time, or impose great risk like the risk of being banned upon failure. It's only normal people try to execute magicians isn't it?

It might well be worthwhile to add some consequences for using magic, and that's something we can discuss among the dev team.

The risk of being banned doesn't seem to make sense, as we can't force that on the realm of the person casting the spell, and how would the realm of the victim know who it was—if the spell even has a "victim," rather than being cast on someone in their own realm to heal or buff them?

[Gabanus family]

That's not a particularly good argument, as you could say just the same about infiltrators, adventurers, priests, guilds/religions, and every island but the EC and Colonies.

Well it was more the start of the rest of the argument that this game in its core has no magic and that it was just a small add-on which has grown far too influential. It was more directed at the argument that removing magic would be 'too nuclear' which is a false argument of course if you look at the history and essense of BM.

It might well be worthwhile to add some consequences for using magic, and that's something we can discuss among the dev team.

The risk of being banned doesn't seem to make sense, as we can't force that on the realm of the person casting the spell, and how would the realm of the victim know who it was—if the spell even has a "victim," rather than being cast on someone in their own realm to heal or buff them?

Well if things go wrong and you get strange beams lighting the sky etc and the 'sorcerer' found unconcious than people will be able to identify him and if the enemy captures him then they also know and can ban him for casting magic. This and the potential backfire are 2 separate things which would raise the risk of using magic. Right now there are no consequences, not for the spellcaster himself, nor for the realm as a whole.

[Ketchum]

Here's my thought on the magic issues and the things around it.

On making Sages occurrence lesser. If we are simulating a game similar to Middle Age, have we past that Witch Inquisition Age? Since we have village folk hunting down Sages, we might as well have something similar to Inquisition time, think before 19th century in real world. Where Sages/Witch are hunted down and become lesser to be found by adventurers. That could be good reasoning and argument if any.

On magic on EC. I wondering whether we can apply the same "carry too many scrolls go off on Belu" code to EC. Then we will have a lot of accidents with scrolls

[Nosferatus]

Here's my thought on the magic issues and the things around it.

On making Sages occurrence lesser. If we are simulating a game similar to Middle Age, have we past that Witch Inquisition Age? Since we have village folk hunting down Sages, we might as well have something similar to Inquisition time, think before 19th century in real world. Where Sages/Witch are hunted down and become lesser to be found by adventurers. That could be good reasoning and argument if any.

On magic on EC. I wondering whether we can apply the same "carry too many scrolls go off on Belu" code to EC. Then we will have a lot of accidents with scrolls

I'd also prefer an approach to this magic 'problem' in the EC, that is taken IG.
If certain realms or characters don't like magic, they could have the option to hunt down the witches and or sages.
Invest time and gold to increase the chances of witches present in a certain region getting 'removed' from the continent.
Perhaps make it an option for every estate to do this, so knights and lords alike can choose to invest in less magic producers.

Also, if i understand correctly, if Magic is illegal in the realm and it is cast by someone, he or she wont be identified?
Perhaps add a certain chance that characters will get indentified so a Judge can deal with it.

All tools for IG solutions to the problem.
Certain cultures or realms might choose to actually promote the use of magic while others hunt it down.
This gives extra incentive for conflict.
Also, hunting down witches in only a certain area will effect the rest of the continent too, as these characters travel around.
It might be hard to balance though.

[Zakilevo]

I wouldn't give a such option to lords. I'd give it to priests. If your religion is anti-magic, having an option to send inquisitors would be nice. Capturing sages, wizards, and possibly commoners carrying scrolls. Maybe hold religious trials to execute commoners.

[Gabanus family]

I wouldn't give a such option to lords. I'd give it to priests. If your religion is anti-magic, having an option to send inquisitors would be nice. Capturing sages, wizards, and possibly commoners carrying scrolls. Maybe hold religious trials to execute commoners.

Why not to lords? They can have their militia patroll for any wizard and magic etc no?

[Chamberlain]

I'm not sure you can fully argue against magic on EC based on the low fantasy aspects of the game, though I am with you that magic is becoming way too common.  Rogue groups have always been monsters or undead... this is kind of the stuff of fantasy anyway.... it could have been something tribal or bandits/pirates but the devs from day one chose the fantastical

I think it is more the range of different scrolls suddenly available.

A couple of years back I recall only really seeing summoning scrolls, now there are scrolls with numerous different powers that maybe beef up the advy game, but when it has direct effect on nobles I'm not really sure its a good thing.

I'd sooner see scrolls that effect regions... eg. poison crops to lower production... alternatively boost crops.  damage morale or increase morale... these would fit more with low fantasy as they could essentially be recipes for fertilisers or LSD in the well... I'd also prefer to see magic only used by certain classes... eg. priest and infiltrators to beef up that side of the game a little.

Kind of going off topis here.

There is too much 'magical' magic to truly call BM low fantasy in my opinion, and that is because there is too much magic to directly effect nobles.  I agree also fine for BT... not so sure for EC

[Zakilevo]

There are really powerful ones that seem to be too readily available and relatively easy to cast for those who have decent skill levels in spellcasting.

Ones that have a huge impact should probably be harder to cast.

1) Scroll of Healing
2) Scroll of Accident

Those two need to be a lot more difficult. I'd say they should both be at 80.

But maybe fireball should be a lot more common since it is the easiest one to cast.

On top of all this, having fewer wizards or wizards only staying for 1 attempt at creating scroll will help greatly as well. Just like creating unique items, if there are too many around already, there should be higher chance of failure plus the longer you hold on to scrolls, the higher the chance of failure as well so people don't just hold on to them forever. Plus if you pause, just like items, scrolls should be dropped.

What I am saying is - make it harder to cast, harder to create and harder to keep.

[Zaros]

Well my advy is not managing to find any scrolls in Sirion

[BarticaBoat]

Add a not insignificant risk of death from using a scroll based on the complexity of the scroll.

[JeVondair]

Add a not insignificant risk of death from using a scroll based on the complexity of the scroll.

+1

[Zakilevo]

Or maybe a cooldown everytime you use a scroll. Maybe one scroll a week.

"You have already exhausted what puny magical power you had within you. You ain't no spellmaster. You can't cast spells after spells. Take your wizard hat off and start putting your helm back on!"

[Chenier]

Magic being erratic, instead of difficult, would make it illegal in more places. If failing a healing scroll could mean wounding a random ally instead, for example.