the war situation

[vonGenf]

Ohnar West's internal political situation is absolutely abysmal. I swear half the realm is Sartanian, and half is Adagharhinishismsm. )Or whatever it's called...)  And since the two hate each other, and we're invading the Adagharhinshimsic realm, at least half the realm doesn't want to fight the war. Arcachon has some fairly highly placed spies (at least high in the diplomatic circles, if not military.) Even if Ohnar West had a bigger mobile army than Arcachon (which it doesn't), there's no way that it could be coordinated enough to fight effectively. And any Ohnarian that thinks that OW's armies are anywhere near "unstoppable" is an idiot.

If you think it's the Adgharinist side that doesn't want to fight the war, you don't have a good list of who's on which side.

[Velax]

Then who is it? The side that don't mind Arcachon burning their way through Ohnarian lands and driving three regions rogue inside a week? Does that faction have a name? The Heaven's Gate group, perhaps?

[Indirik]

Not being a member of any of the religions involved, it's a bit hard for me to identify some of them unless they are lords.

I know that Joseph, an Adgharhinismist is in favor of the war, as are the Sartanian lords (Sparticus, Balthazar, Jatha, etc.) Iceberg, an Adagharhinist, supports the war, but I'm not sure he supports it all that strongly. He seems more inclined to support the war just to support and protect his duchy, rather than to actually fight Arcachon. Sophytia, also an Adagharhinist, sits in her region and never does anything. Vulpes, a Sartanian, is also a bit of an enigma. He never does anything, or says anything. Just sits in Ossaet most of the time and does nothing at all. Veleno? Well, she's a Papanian, so probably a pacifist or something. She wants peace with everyone.

So, no, it's not a purely religious split. But it's hard to keep tabs on people that are not lords, when you're not in a religion yourself.

Edit: There is also the fact that of our 25 nobles we have four courtiers, a priest, a diplomat, an ambassador, and a trader. And two of our remaining warrior-type-people are locked. So 10 of our 25 nobles are essentially non-combatants. 15 nobles at 500CS each gives us only 7.5K CS at 100% participation. Not exactly a military powerhouse.

[Nathan]

Veleno? Well, she's a Papanian, so probably a pacifist or something. She wants peace with everyone.

Ding! We have a winner. Well, mostly. She wouldn't mind wiping out all the Sartanians and Arcaea has never been one of her favourite realms. A few of the older members may remember a little blood-lust run she had about Nighthelm. But right now, yeah, peace with everyone and sticking to the defensive is her plan. Also, she thinks herself more as a former Lasanarian than a Papanian :P

It never really occurred to me that people weren't part of either The Way (much easier to spell than Adgharinism) or Sartanism. Is Taylin part of Magna Aenillia Ecclesia? Or is she a pagan?

It should be noted that the war didn't even start out as religious. From the Adgharin side, it became religious when Arcaean nobles burned down our temples. There were then shouts that they were all Sartanians and they should be killed. Then with Selene being a Sartanian Prime Minister, things got really touchy in Arcachon. I'm quite sure most of the Arcachon nobles would prefer Joseph or Veleno as Prime Minister of Ohnar West, someone who shares their faith and therefore more willing to support Arcachon.

Interesting to know how our nobles stack up. I didn't know we had four courtiers, Veleno hasn't had any contact with them. Maybe she should seek them out and rally some support.

Who do we all think is going to win the war? Personally I see it coming to an uneasy peace, but not any time soon. Arcachon has proven itself to be rather resilient and I think people in most realms involved might just get bored of going back and forth in a few months and want peace. Once peace with Arcachon is signed, I think most other wars will fix themselves as they all seem to have spawned from that one.

[Indirik]

Ding! We have a winner. Well, mostly. She wouldn't mind wiping out all the Sartanians and Arcaea has never been one of her favourite realms. A few of the older members may remember a little blood-lust run she had about Nighthelm. But right now, yeah, peace with everyone and sticking to the defensive is her plan. Also, she thinks herself more as a former Lasanarian than a Papanian :P

It never really occurred to me that people weren't part of either The Way (much easier to spell than Adgharinism) or Sartanism. Is Taylin part of Magna Aenillia Ecclesia? Or is she a pagan?

Pagan, I guess would be the applicable term. She's never even considered joining an organized religion. Right now, she's too cynical about life in general to devote herself to a particular one.

Who do we all think is going to win the war?

Right now, there are too many things happening to really call it. I don't see OW coming out of this in one piece. I could see it fracturing eventually. Would be interesting to see OW split up into two or three smaller realms. (Too bad I lost my duchy...  :'() As for Arcachon, I think it will survive, and largely intact. If they can manage to kick OW out of the war before Arcaea frees up an army to fight in the north again, then they may even take the offensive to Arcaea.

[Heq]

Yeah, Arcachon has the exact opposite issue as OW, they have two courtiers and one priest and everyone else is an active combatant.  With two warriors recently locked this allows them to get around 31 people into the field, which makes the force a looting machine.

It's also oddly unified, I'm actually suprised Edara didn't move to make Arcachon a vassal state at the start.  Right now Arcachon and the Southern Cross look to be winning the war, and I don't see much hope for OW to mount a decent offence, or even a really passable defence.

[Bedwyr]

Arcachon's certainly winning against OW, but Arcaea's just as certainly winning against the Southern Cross.  The question is whether Arcachon can beat OW into surrendering before Arcaea can beat GA into surrendering, talk someone into pulling out, or talk Cathay into fighting again.

[De-Legro]

Ding! We have a winner. Well, mostly. She wouldn't mind wiping out all the Sartanians and Arcaea has never been one of her favourite realms. A few of the older members may remember a little blood-lust run she had about Nighthelm. But right now, yeah, peace with everyone and sticking to the defensive is her plan. Also, she thinks herself more as a former Lasanarian than a Papanian :P

It never really occurred to me that people weren't part of either The Way (much easier to spell than Adgharinism) or Sartanism. Is Taylin part of Magna Aenillia Ecclesia? Or is she a pagan?

It should be noted that the war didn't even start out as religious. From the Adgharin side, it became religious when Arcaean nobles burned down our temples. There were then shouts that they were all Sartanians and they should be killed. Then with Selene being a Sartanian Prime Minister, things got really touchy in Arcachon. I'm quite sure most of the Arcachon nobles would prefer Joseph or Veleno as Prime Minister of Ohnar West, someone who shares their faith and therefore more willing to support Arcachon.

Interesting to know how our nobles stack up. I didn't know we had four courtiers, Veleno hasn't had any contact with them. Maybe she should seek them out and rally some support.

Who do we all think is going to win the war? Personally I see it coming to an uneasy peace, but not any time soon. Arcachon has proven itself to be rather resilient and I think people in most realms involved might just get bored of going back and forth in a few months and want peace. Once peace with Arcachon is signed, I think most other wars will fix themselves as they all seem to have spawned from that one.

I don't recall Arcaea burning down any temples, I do recall Arcachon destroying a Sartan temple in Arcaea. Some priest were preaching in Arcachon I understand, but that is hardly burning down temples is it?

[Bedwyr]

It should be noted that the war didn't even start out as religious. From the Adgharin side, it became religious when Arcaean nobles burned down our temples.

Yeah...Talk about bull!@#$ propaganda.  One temple got attacked after Arcachon burned down three Arcaean temples.  And even then Jenred reined in the troops because he doesn't particularly dislike the Way of Adghar.

[De-Legro]

Yeah...Talk about bull!@#$ propaganda.  One temple got attacked after Arcachon burned down three Arcaean temples.  And even then Jenred reined in the troops because he doesn't particularly dislike the Way of Adghar.

Yes I remember asking permission to burn down every temple of the Way I came across. Santiago was told in very clear words that he would be banned and executed for any action against temples.

[Nathan]

I definitely remember more than one temple being sacked and people started to ask Veleno why nothing was being done about it, which is what lead her to poking Galiard about adding in the bit about not destroying temples into one of the treaties with Ohnar West. There was also some shouting about priests being arrested, beaten up, tortured, etc.

As for what Arcachon did, I've no idea, I'm part of Ohnar West so I can't say if they did or didn't do something. It wouldn't surprise me if they did burn temples though, there's a pretty deep hatred for the Sartanians and their church.

[Heq]

Wait?  What?  I don't even know where that propaganda came from (was it me?).

Ciann's issue is with the new Aenelian religion that likes infiltrators, but that's just a personal bias from being stabbed a half a dozen times.  Hailey was the one who burned down the church, and she got killed, but of course she was against the Way, because she was an infiltrator and thus a coward who hates all things good and lawful.  Ciann doesn't really grasp the concept of a nation though, so it would be really hard for her to declare a religious war against anything other then an individual.

I think Ciann burned down two Sartanian temples herself, but that doesn't count, as Sartanianism is just a heresy and not a real religion like Aenelianism or the Way.

[Bedwyr]

I definitely remember more than one temple being sacked and people started to ask Veleno why nothing was being done about it, which is what lead her to poking Galiard about adding in the bit about not destroying temples into one of the treaties with Ohnar West. There was also some shouting about priests being arrested, beaten up, tortured, etc.

That's just flat out not true.  One temple was burned, and bloodcurdling warnings issued on what would happen if that was repeated, and there was at least one, maybe more that were closed by region lords after Arcaea took (or retook) mainland regions.  No Priests were tortured or beaten.  Priests were arrested when they entered Arcaean regions, but that's just common sense.

[Nathan]

I definitely remember more than one temple being sacked and people started to ask Veleno why nothing was being done about it, which is what lead her to poking Galiard about adding in the bit about not destroying temples into one of the treaties with Ohnar West. There was also some shouting about priests being arrested, beaten up, tortured, etc.

That's just flat out not true.  One temple was burned, and bloodcurdling warnings issued on what would happen if that was repeated, and there was at least one, maybe more that were closed by region lords after Arcaea took (or retook) mainland regions.  No Priests were tortured or beaten.  Priests were arrested when they entered Arcaean regions, but that's just common sense.

Oh, I apologise, I wasn't aware you can read letters I sent/received. I received letters from Adgharin members asking me to do something. I sent letters to Galiard asking for a part in the treaties about not destroying temples. These are facts. If you choose not to believe them, fine, but you may be starting to believe your own/someone else's IC propaganda instead of OOC truths.

[Velax]

Fairly obviously he was referring to your statement that more than one temple had been sacked, not the rest of it. Let's not deliberately misunderstand things just to cause arguments, eh? We get enough of that in the game.