Under Debate: Unit Disipline

[pcw27]

I'm not sure if this has been proposed before so I wanted to ask about it before going to feature requests.

I think it would be interesting to add a mechanic for unit discipline to the unit settings. Much like looting this level of discipline ranges from strict to lenient. A unit with low discipline will maintain higher moral but will cause a moral loss to the region they are in. This could take the form of specific mishaps which would be reported to both the troop leader and region lord ranging from a drunken brawl to a murder. Perhaps fights could even escalate to the point of triggering a battle with local militia or peasant mobs. Or for simplicity the lord could simply get the message "peasants are angry due to conflicts with rowdy soldiers" which the players could roleplay as specific incidents. To avoid this trouble a knight could keep their troops strictly disciplined, but as a result the unit moral will degrade more quickly. There could be other consequences as well, for example a unit with lax discipline may be less likely to stop an infiltrator or suffer from faster equipment damage.

A system like this would create new potential for both inter and intra-realm conflict even for mere knights as well as give them greater freedom to tailor their own play style.

[Anaris]

It's not impossible that we'd implement something like that some time in the future, but it won't be particularly soon.

There's definitely room for discussion of ways to discourage plopping a huge army in a single region and sitting it there for long periods.

[pcw27]

It's not impossible that we'd implement something like that some time in the future, but it won't be particularly soon.

There's definitely room for discussion of ways to discourage plopping a huge army in a single region and sitting it there for long periods.

I hadn't really thought of it as a check against armies sitting around for too long. I was mostly thinking of ways to drive conflict through mechanics with in game rather than role played consequences.

Imagine for example an army with out of control soldiers causing havoc in an allied realm. Such problems were common in historical conflicts, the problem is the closest way to replicate them is for a player to just decide to be a straight up jerk and loot allied lands or set their unit to murderous for no reason (I'm not even sure if the looting part is possible now). Either option will typically get a character reprimanded by their realm's judge. With discipline the matter can be more nuanced:

Local lord: Your soldiers have been stealing rum and ravaging women!
Foreign allied knight: My soldiers are protecting your realm. I grant them freedom because they risk their lives in service to me. If they misuse some of that freedom so be it. Perhaps you should be grateful my troops are here at all, or do you think the enemy will be kinder to your peasants?

Or the mechanic could even be used in an intra-realm feud.

[Wimpie]

I like this idea, but would need to be figured out/thought out more in detail.

[pcw27]

I like this idea, but would need to be figured out/thought out more in detail.

I imagine the simplest would just be a direct unit moral bonus to region moral penalty.

[Scarth]

Just keep in mind that there are only so many hours in a day. If we put too many demands on a Knights time (by making them micromanage their units for example) then there will be less time for, well, battle. It already feels like there isn't enough time to really use some of the fun options available. I'm sure that many could list actions that they rarely use simply because of time constraints. I'm not against the idea but keep in mind that hours are a finite resource!

[pcw27]

Just keep in mind that there are only so many hours in a day. If we put too many demands on a Knights time (by making them micromanage their units for example) then there will be less time for, well, battle. It already feels like there isn't enough time to really use some of the fun options available. I'm sure that many could list actions that they rarely use simply because of time constraints. I'm not against the idea but keep in mind that hours are a finite resource!

That's true so we'd want to crunch the numbers so a knight with a unit set to strict discipline doesn't need to constantly entertain their troops. For example it could be a month of strict discipline will cause total moral loss necessitating them to "pay for entertainment" every week or so.

[JeVondair]

I really like this idea. If/when it get's considered, I'd like to add to the idea that mishaps gets shared automatically to the entire realm and/or the realms at war with your realm as, historically, that's exactly how it worked?

[pcw27]

I really like this idea. If/when it get's considered, I'd like to add to the idea that mishaps gets shared automatically to the entire realm and/or the realms at war with your realm as, historically, that's exactly how it worked?

I think it would make more sense for it to be shared to the region lord and any nobles there. Remember this isn't outright looting. I don't feel to strongly either way but that's my general feeling.

[Medron Pryde]

I actually think something like this could work with the existing stats we have right now.

Training and Cohesion.

Imagine a unit with low cohesion and low training would be more...ahem...wanton in their walking around a region.

As training and cohesion increases, their chances of randomly doing this go down until a 100% on both would make them generally unwilling to do it without orders.

Then maybe have the chances go up and down based on the allegiance of the region they are in.  They would be least likely to do it in a region of your own duchy.  A bit more likely to do it in another duchy of your realm.  It would be more pronounced in foreign regions.  Less pronounced in federated regions.  A little more in allied regions.  More in peaceful, or neutral regions.  And they'd be downright enthusiastic in their attempts to find fun and sun in regions they are at war with.

What might be even MORE interesting would be to modify all the current "looting" reports so they only happen during turn change.  Handle them like "hunting" commands, where you can command them anytime during the turn, and then they activate during the turn change.  That way every looter in the region gets a chance to get a little bit out of the region rather than having a militia form and stop them from trying part way through the turn.  AND it would mask whether or not the looting was done via orders or this random mechanic based on troop discipline.

A player could send his unit out to loot a region and then claim "I didn't order them.  They did it on their own.  I will surely discipline them."  And nobody could tell for certain.  It would make for an interesting complication to gameplay.

;D

[Gordy77]

Aha! Then you aught to have a mechanism to -actually
- discipline them!  Meaning a temporary boost to discipline and cohesion at morale cost.

Imagine you could set a target discipline- then you could maintain the desired settings for merciless Raiders versus strictly military Paladin order.

Potentially, you could have units that even ENJOY certain settings, like they do now with entertainments.

[pcw27]

I actually think something like this could work with the existing stats we have right now.

Training and Cohesion.

Imagine a unit with low cohesion and low training would be more...ahem...wanton in their walking around a region.

As training and cohesion increases, their chances of randomly doing this go down until a 100% on both would make them generally unwilling to do it without orders.

Then maybe have the chances go up and down based on the allegiance of the region they are in.  They would be least likely to do it in a region of your own duchy.  A bit more likely to do it in another duchy of your realm.  It would be more pronounced in foreign regions.  Less pronounced in federated regions.  A little more in allied regions.  More in peaceful, or neutral regions.  And they'd be downright enthusiastic in their attempts to find fun and sun in regions they are at war with.

What might be even MORE interesting would be to modify all the current "looting" reports so they only happen during turn change.  Handle them like "hunting" commands, where you can command them anytime during the turn, and then they activate during the turn change.  That way every looter in the region gets a chance to get a little bit out of the region rather than having a militia form and stop them from trying part way through the turn.  AND it would mask whether or not the looting was done via orders or this random mechanic based on troop discipline.

A player could send his unit out to loot a region and then claim "I didn't order them.  They did it on their own.  I will surely discipline them."  And nobody could tell for certain.  It would make for an interesting complication to gameplay.

;D

All interesting possibilities. It certainly does make sense for training and cohesion to be a part of it but I think Morale should as well.

[Medron Pryde]

Oh yes.  Morale.

A troop with low morale may be more interested in...ahem...sampling the local delicacies...to improve morale of course...

[pcw27]

Oh yes.  Morale.

A troop with low morale may be more interested in...ahem...sampling the local delicacies...to improve morale of course...

That or they'll be less willing to ignore the peasant yelling at them to get off their lawn.