Under Debate: Secondary Class Idea

[Matthew Potter]

So I've just finished a discussion about a class ideas with Aeneas in VC tonight and thought id write up the rough idea.

Background: I currently feel that Cavalier and Hero represent the more "highly" respect option in the noble community and they could be joined by a more reduced sized but high skilled unit that is prepared to do jobs with little to no morale loss which the others either wouldn't do or would suffer more negatives from.

Placeholder Nickname - Warden
The Warden while not respected within noble circles due to their close integration with their retinue and generally their estates. Find themselves with other benefits, their units are strong together and build up a strong trust and experience with each other. Death's are rare within a warden's retinue though taking casualties can be extremely punishing due to the constant degradation of honour and prestige to the Warden's name they find themselves generally on the frontier where the have regular encounter with monsters and brigands.
The time at which the shine is in times of crisis, when them and their units sheer trust and experience with each other allow them to really push themselves to the human limits.

Mechanics:
Wardens degrade honour and prestige every week/month down to a threshold
Wardens provide additional percentage on top of the current morale/cohesion etc to their retinue and gain more experience in leadership etc.
Wardens similar to hero's add their battle strength to their unit. However, unlike hero's to be killed their retinue needs to be routed or wiped out. (They do not gain any benefits to escaping prison)
Wardens Retinue take more wounds but have reduced chance of death.
Warden's Retinue can perform civil work and paid work for reduced/no morale penalty
Warden's Retinue suffer less issues with equipment degradation and issues arising from it.

[Medron Pryde]

I like the general idea.

Though I'm uncertain about reducing honor and prestige.

That seems like a...powerful downside to the whole class.

[Matthew Potter]

I like the general idea.

Though I'm uncertain about reducing honor and prestige.

That seems like a...powerful downside to the whole class.

I Feel without a sort of negative to it physically, it would make it reasonably similar to the current existing military sub-classes.
Possibly a way to balance it would be to maybe make the level you can drop to as a threshold for prestige and honour be related to how long you have been the sub-class. The longer you are the higher those stats can be and not suffer downgrades if your at that threshold when a tick occurs.

[Matthew Potter]

After discussion with a few players/members, I have made an Update to the idea of the suggestion:

As such I wanted to include a synopsis - The sub-class idea (Overseer or another relevant name) would have two divides Offensive and Defensive, The player would decide when the Character takes this Class type if they want the Offensive Option or the Defensive Option - After that has been decided they are either the archetype a Warden (Defensive) or Raider (Offensive) each with its focused perks towards that role but with standard benefits regarding the class archetype.

Standard Features:
Positive:
-Overseers can perform civil and police work without/reduce morale penalties to their units.
-Overseers provide their combat prowess to their unit.
-Overseers can only be slain if their unit is completely wiped out.
-Overseers Retinue have a lower chance to die from their wounds and have a lesser chance to die during battle and while wounded.
-Provide a bonus to Morale, Cohesion and Training of their Retinue (Small) - A further bonus is given based on the archetype when in relevant zones.


Negatives:
- Your maximum retinue size is (80%??) of the standard of your Class
- You suffer degradation of a percentage of Prestige and Honour, every week - The max Honour and Prestige of the class is an increasing threshold based on time you have the class.
- You become at risk of death in combat, if your retinue is completely wiped out.

Warden (Defensive) Features:
While within Allied Territory:
-Your wounded soldiers aid in battle, increasing your retinue's CS value
-Your unwounded men may aid in the transport of wounded personnel, allowing travel with wounded men within a threshold.
-Suffer less issues with equipment degradation and issues arising from it.
-Require Less Time to Dig in.
-Suffer less Degradation of morale.
-Have reduced cost to the additional cost of Sentry or Vanguard Unit Classification.

Raider (Offensive) Features:
While within Enemy and Rogue Territory:
-Your wounded soldiers aid in battle, increasing your retinue's CS value
-Your unwounded men may aid in the transport of wounded personnel, allowing travel with wounded men within a threshold.
-Require Less Time to Dig in.
-Gain an increased value from Raiding/Looting.
-Stronger at Razing and Demolishing.

EDIT: Adding Flavour

The (Overseer) is a noble that has taken a different and somewhat less respectful route in noble life, either to focus in defence or offence. They develop stronger relationships with their personal retinue's and fight directly within their ranks in battle, they inspire their soldiers to greater ends and serve a less respected but sometimes necessary role within their realm's. Generally, these nobles would be found on the frontier's away from the more civilised nobles serving ends within their realm's.

The Warden's is the more defensively themed noble, within their realms territory their abilities are on full display. Using their terrain knowledge and experience alongside their retinue's ability to act and react as time decides. Their retinues can act almost like a bulwark in the darkest of times.

The Raider is the more offensively themed noble, heading out into the wilderness and territories of other realms. These nobles and their retinue's are adept and turning over even the smallest of hamlets to find hidden coin, as well as dealing greater destruction to territory.

[Gordy77]

Do other classes have so many pro and con? I don't feel like they do (with the exception of Hero), and not counting the priest.

It might be better if you were able to summarise other classes and get a feel for how much away they each have compared to Warrior class, and settle on something equally powerful, rather than a dizzy list of skills and abilities that other classes lack.

[Vita`]

For one thing, we don't have different subclass types. So, assuming this was approved, it would be two subclasses rather than one with two types.

[Matthew Potter]

Thank you for the heads up, Vita. I will make some modified suggestions regarding the two subclass ideas shortly.

[Matthew Potter]

Warden: Designed around realm defence around a smaller but more efficient unit.
-Wardens have a smaller unit size due to them being designed around a tight knit retinue that they work alongside with.
-Wardens receive decay to prestige and honour which get progressively smaller the longer they are a warden.
-Wardens provide their swordfighting to their retinue (similar to hero)
-Wardens are at risk of death in combat, this occurs when the unit is completely destroyed in combat (0 survivors) or is scattered rather than performing a organised retreat.

-While in realm territory, a Warden's retinue receives increased morale, cohesion and training and cannot lose morale from civil work.
-Wardens have a chance to not lose an hour while deploying scouts to friendly territory.
-Wounded members of the retinue provide a higher CS value in battle and can be aided 2 for 1 by their colleagues to travel.
-Retinue suffers less equipment degradation and issues that arise from it.
-A Wardens retinue acts as a sentry without the movement restrictions as a army, police force, vanguard, mercenary.
-A Wardens retinue receives increased defensive value when fighting from Dug in or Fortifications and can dig in at a faster rate.
-A Warden and their retinue due to their terrain knowledge are extremely efficient and safe hunters of enemies.


Raider: Designed around highly efficient looting and destruction.
-Raiders have a smaller unit size due to them being designed around a tight knit retinue that they work alongside with.
-Raiders receive decay to prestige and honour which get progressively smaller the longer they are a warden.
-Raiders provide their swordfighting to their retinue (similar to hero)
-Raiders are at risk of death in combat, this occurs when the unit is completely destroyed in combat (0 survivors) or is scattered rather than performing a organised retreat.

-A raiders and their retinue when set to evasive are harder to find than normal.
-A raiders retinue acts as mercenary while as an army, police force, vanguard or sentry.
-A raiders retinue can increase their morale through raiding territory and gain increased value and success for looting.
-A raider and their retinue are extremely dangerous the hunt for due to their organised tactics.
-A raider and their retinue deplete their supplies at a much slower rate and can carry more supplies.
-A raider and their retinue can rally and travel on the same turn.