Entrenched families in same realm

[vanKaya]

I was wondering what you guys thought, IC and ooc, of realms where it's common to see multiple members of the same family holding several positions of power simultaneously, and, in addition, when there's a select group of families who make up a majority of the power base.

Ex.

John X: marshal of the derp army, lord of fannyville

Bob X: duke of derp city

Will Y: duke of capital city

Bill Y: lord of handyland, judge of keplarstan

Matt Z: ruler of keplarstan, lord of Blahblobville

Zach Z: duke of Something city

Maybe because I've played mostly on Dwi I'm not used to this but it seems like a huge turn off coming to a realm like that when it seems the upper echelon is so entrenched for seemingly ooc reasons.

Thoughts?

[songqu88@gmail.com]

If people actually still play there, then meh to it. Soliferum was, according to some, one of the most prevalent in recent history. They kind of dropped the ball big time eventually.

[Geronus]

It happens in some realms. I play in one actually. In my experience though, other players tend to recognize this sort of power hoarding and passively work against it. The realm I play in is a Republic, so every month we vote on council positions and every lordship is voted upon as well. If there's ever an alternative to the families in question, they usually win the vote. Half the problem is that people just don't run against them sometimes.

[Stue (DC)]

I was heartedly advocating that two chars in continent should be disallowed at some lenghty discussion on D-list, many arguments were stated, the major argument of those who prefer having two chars was that many players make effort to create distinction between characters, which i see very rarely, but if i remember well, the main reason why it remained is that many players expressed their feeling how they get used to play that way and would suffer much if that would be changed.


there is one other element, though - currently many positions/specializations/titles are quite disfunctional or are completely non-interesting for play so they can work only if bolstered with other chars.

so many courtiers, traders, priests fall into that category, rulers who want to play strong game as well, so I cannot blame those who do it for sake of gameplay, though i never preferred it.

I believe everything would be self-regulated bringing more quality to game if two chars would not be possible at the same place, people would be forced to cooperate more with others. instead of relying on their firm reserve slots.

though  think that discussion is over long time ago

[vanKaya]

Bah I think this is one of those things that's personal preference.

People who have multiple chars in power will argue till their blue in the face on why they're not hoarding power and why if other chars wanted the position they should speak up more etc etc.

If there is a IC differentiation between the two family members than Technically it's not against the rules or anything but honestly I think it should be one of those things where, while it may make sense IC why your second character deserves the lordship more than another, you should be less of an ooc douche and give new players a chance to prove themselves.

As has been mentioned in another thread: are you hoarding power because everyone else is quiet or is everyone quiet because you are hoarding power?

I understand the (unfortunate) need for second chars to run estates and whatnot but I don't think I could ever justify to myself taking two positions of power in a single realm. If there are not enough qualified candidates than there is something seriously wrong with your realm and the solution isn't to appoint yourself. Surely, Surely, you can think of one player who you have seen always showing up for batttles, or always fielding impressive units despite being mere knights. Maybe they don't talk but maybe they're just waiting for someone to tell them that their voice matters.

Personally, we talk about the decline of the BM player base and what bugs we could fix or what features we could add but I think multiple chars with positions of power is a huge detractor for a lot of new players. Hell, its turned me off of more than one realm and if it wasnt for Dwi where that is clearly not possible, I doubt I would still be playing.

[Shenron]

I was wondering what you guys thought, IC and ooc, of realms where it's common to see multiple members of the same family holding several positions of power simultaneously, and, in addition, when there's a select group of families who make up a majority of the power base.

Ex.

John X: marshal of the derp army, lord of fannyville

Bob X: duke of derp city

Will Y: duke of capital city

Bill Y: lord of handyland, judge of keplarstan

Matt Z: ruler of keplarstan, lord of Blahblobville

Zach Z: duke of Something city

Maybe because I've played mostly on Dwi I'm not used to this but it seems like a huge turn off coming to a realm like that when it seems the upper echelon is so entrenched for seemingly ooc reasons.

Thoughts?

Welcome to Atamara?

[egamma]

Welcome to Atamara?

The Colonies have a lot of that too--Giblot used to have more of this, but it's gradually decreasing, I think. But Lukon would lose a third of their numbers if all the second characters went away.

[Jens Namtrah]

Maybe because I've played mostly on Dwi I'm not used to this but it seems like a huge turn off coming to a realm like that when it seems the upper echelon is so entrenched for seemingly ooc reasons.

Thoughts?

Yeah - leave.

It used to be a very serious problem in the game. These days, with such a widespread shortage of players, it isn't hard to find a place that needs you and will play in a more open, friendly way.

So just shun those types of realms. Or, play in them and cure yourself of any "rah-rah! all for my Realm" feelings you might have in your characters. I find it much easier to "look out for #1", or play a mercenary,  when there's obviously no real future for my character in that realm anyway. Don't know why more people don't see it that way, but I guess if they are happy then that's good too.

[vanKaya]

Welcome to Atamara?

The Colonies have a lot of that too--Giblot used to have more of this, but it's gradually decreasing, I think. But Lukon would lose a third of their numbers if all the second characters went away.

The example I was thinking of was in Beluaterra so I guess the this is a pretty widespread problem everywhere but Dwi.

Yeah - leave.

Yeah clearly that's the easiest solution and it doesn't bother me to try in another realm but I'd hate for BM to lose a potential player cause people see this kind of nepotism and assume it's the rule. Think of halo or cod, the people who ruin it for others is the hardcore group that are playing to "win" and not to have fun.

There's another thread going on where the ruler of Greater Aenillia was making the case that it was fine he was monopolizing the power because it made a) sense IC and b) cause he was the most qualified. I feel this is exactly the rationale players most players have when they take on power positions with their second characters and the problem with said rationale is that it's contrary to the idea that BM is a community, not a game you win.

[JPierreD]

I couldn't agree more.

But there seems to be no other solution than moving along. That is why (among other things, actually ) I love Dwilight. Much less chance for hoarding power.

[Gustav Kuriga]

I would support only one character per continent, as long as that means we could have one character per continent with no character limit (I mean the whole "you can have 6 characters, 3 can be active and 3 can be nobles", as that just limits the gameplay for no reason and exacerbates our lack of player base).

[Indirik]

The mere fact of having two family members in a realm that both hold positions is not big a deal to me. So long as they both get there legitimately. Especially with the lowered player numbers we have these days. It used to be much more common for realms to have a "one position per character/family" rule.

What bugs me is when one character leaves/dies, a new family member appears in the realm, and they very quickly, almost instantly in some cases, gets the same position as the old family members. I've even seen this where a player comes back with a new account, and immediately gets a council-level position. I forget whether it was AT or BT that had a realm who's General had the Student subclass!

[Anaris]

I forget whether it was AT or BT that had a realm who's General had the Student subclass!

It would almost have to be AT, wouldn't it?  Don't get many Students on BT...

[Indirik]

Well, now that you mention it, I guess it would have had to have been AT....

[Forbes Family]

First off I'm not a big fan of seeing the power hoarding that has been spoken of here. However the one item I have issue with is say a hero who is lord is killed in battle and they make a new character. I don't have a problem with that new character being passed on the lands and titles of the old one. Granted I would probably feel different about council positions but region lords it makes total IC sense to pass them on to a family member where available.