Author Topic: Entrenched families in same realm  (Read 20992 times)

Sacha

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Re: Entrenched families in same realm
« Reply #15: July 20, 2011, 10:28:38 PM »
Hereditary rule is not something that is incorporated in the game, nor should it ever be IMO. If we allowed such practice, players could keep their positions forever and there would be almost no turnover anywhere.

Zakilevo

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Re: Entrenched families in same realm
« Reply #16: July 20, 2011, 10:34:55 PM »
Well there is a good way to stop a certain family from taking council member positions fast. Just start a rebellion and clear them out :)

I don't really vote the same family for two lord positions. If one family gets a lord position with one account and puts another char's name for the second lordship, I usually go with another family's character. If people want this to be solved completely, the only way to do it will be not allowing the same family to make two chars in one realm.

songqu88@gmail.com

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Re: Entrenched families in same realm
« Reply #17: July 20, 2011, 10:57:00 PM »
It would almost have to be AT, wouldn't it?  Don't get many Students on BT...

Pretty sure you can't, right? S sub probably doesn't carry over upon emigration. But I certainly can't test this.

fodder

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Re: Entrenched families in same realm
« Reply #18: July 20, 2011, 11:11:28 PM »
Hereditary rule is not something that is incorporated in the game, nor should it ever be IMO. If we allowed such practice, players could keep their positions forever and there would be almost no turnover anywhere.

well, turnover is easily achieved when you can just grab the land yourself (with your army).. ie.. you are the lord in practice (until someone boot you out with their own army), even if no one recognise it. - obviously not how the game works atm.

if anything i think family should be better structured. ie incorporate a family tree (of a player's making) and i don't mean wiki.
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Re: Entrenched families in same realm
« Reply #19: July 20, 2011, 11:20:04 PM »
I was heartedly advocating that two chars in continent should be disallowed at some lenghty discussion on D-list, many arguments were stated, the major argument of those who prefer having two chars was that many players make effort to create distinction between characters, which i see very rarely, but if i remember well, the main reason why it remained is that many players expressed their feeling how they get used to play that way and would suffer much if that would be changed.


there is one other element, though - currently many positions/specializations/titles are quite disfunctional or are completely non-interesting for play so they can work only if bolstered with other chars.

so many courtiers, traders, priests fall into that category, rulers who want to play strong game as well, so I cannot blame those who do it for sake of gameplay, though i never preferred it.

I believe everything would be self-regulated bringing more quality to game if two chars would not be possible at the same place, people would be forced to cooperate more with others. instead of relying on their firm reserve slots.

though  think that discussion is over long time ago :'(

No, I disagree with 1 char per continent.

In Enweil, you'll see a lot of people with double characters both having titles, and others with none. That's because the latter clearly don't give a !@#$ or have the time for these offices. Because they are constantly offered positions and opportunities, and not of them say a word. I'm having a hard time finding a candidate for the next region I want to annex for my duchy, no one is bringing his name forth. Last lordship election went on without a candidate before I put my name in 5 minutes before the end of the referendum. The general only wins again and again because nobody else puts their name forth, 'cause we'd get rid of him ASAP if there was an alternative. Judge wants to step down for a while now, but there are no candidates stepping forth that he trusts yet enough. Same goes for most positions and titles. Those characters without any titles just aren't making the least effort to get involved and promoted, they just stick to setting their estates and following orders.

And I suspect the same of many realms. There's nothing wrong with active players having many titles.

hint: if you want promotions, Enweil's a good place to go to. There are still plenty of rogue regions about to annex, but we lack the nobles to claim them (while not having anyone really desiring to lord over them anyways).
« Last Edit: July 20, 2011, 11:26:44 PM by Chénier »
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Revan

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Re: Entrenched families in same realm
« Reply #20: July 21, 2011, 01:05:19 AM »

In Enweil, you'll see a lot of people with double characters both having titles, and others with none. That's because the latter clearly don't give a !@#$ or have the time for these offices. Because they are constantly offered positions and opportunities, and not of them say a word. I'm having a hard time finding a candidate for the next region I want to annex for my duchy, no one is bringing his name forth. Last lordship election went on without a candidate before I put my name in 5 minutes before the end of the referendum. The general only wins again and again because nobody else puts their name forth, 'cause we'd get rid of him ASAP if there was an alternative. Judge wants to step down for a while now, but there are no candidates stepping forth that he trusts yet enough. Same goes for most positions and titles. Those characters without any titles just aren't making the least effort to get involved and promoted, they just stick to setting their estates and following orders.

And I suspect the same of many realms. There's nothing wrong with active players having many titles.

hint: if you want promotions, Enweil's a good place to go to. There are still plenty of rogue regions about to annex, but we lack the nobles to claim them (while not having anyone really desiring to lord over them anyways).

That makes me giggle. I tried quite a few times to get a lordship in Enweil, but I never got anywhere. I was being beaten by folk who didn't even open their mouths to say they were running for pity's sake. Is it any wonder that people stop caring and just give up on trying?

Bedwyr

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Re: Entrenched families in same realm
« Reply #21: July 21, 2011, 01:11:12 AM »
I've been in realms that allowed multiple positions, and I've been in realms that did not.  And I'm pretty damn confident that the ones that keep to a one position per family rule do better in the long run.  Yeah, it might hurt sometimes in the short-term, I've seen it happen.  But I've been pretty draconian about enforcing that rule in Arcaea, and I've had a number of people tell me they came and joined specifically because of that rule, and I'm sure others did that didn't tell me.
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Vellos

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Re: Entrenched families in same realm
« Reply #22: July 21, 2011, 01:27:49 AM »
What bugs me is when one character leaves/dies, a new family member appears in the realm, and they very quickly, almost instantly in some cases, gets the same position as the old family members. I've even seen this where a player comes back with a new account, and immediately gets a council-level position. I forget whether it was AT or BT that had a realm who's General had the Student subclass!

THIS. I HATE this. Nothing, I repeat, nothing in BM except for multi-cheating infuriates me more than this. It especially bothers me when I start a new character somewhere and it is assumed that I will be taking up the mantle of my previous character's positions. No.

BT is particularly bad about this (and I've only been in one major realm in BT.... guess who?). I've also seen some pretty heinous examples in Atamara. It doesn't seem quite as prevalent in my (limited) experience in EC and FEI.
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Gustav Kuriga

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Re: Entrenched families in same realm
« Reply #23: July 21, 2011, 05:14:47 AM »
And can't happen on Dwilight!

Iltaran

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Re: Entrenched families in same realm
« Reply #24: July 21, 2011, 08:36:29 AM »
erm... yes it can.
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Draco Tanos

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Re: Entrenched families in same realm
« Reply #25: July 21, 2011, 08:56:44 AM »
What he said.  Sure, someone wouldn't have a "back up" currently on the continent, but it wouldn't be difficult to remake immediately.

It's easy for certain families to stay in power if they truly want to remain there and have the support to do so, even on Dwilight.

Ramiel

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Re: Entrenched families in same realm
« Reply #26: July 21, 2011, 12:29:29 PM »
If it was up to me, I would make it so only One Character per Family can hold a Council Position/Dukeship at any one time. Across Realms/Continents. That would increase turnover ;)

Then again I would also turn Dying after 75 on too... :D
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Stue (DC)

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Re: Entrenched families in same realm
« Reply #27: July 21, 2011, 12:56:16 PM »
No, I disagree with 1 char per continent.

In Enweil, you'll see a lot of people with double characters both having titles, and others with none. That's because the latter clearly don't give a !@#$ or have the time for these offices. Because they are constantly offered positions and opportunities, and not of them say a word. I'm having a hard time finding a candidate for the next region I want to annex for my duchy, no one is bringing his name forth. Last lordship election went on without a candidate before I put my name in 5 minutes before the end of the referendum. The general only wins again and again because nobody else puts their name forth, 'cause we'd get rid of him ASAP if there was an alternative. Judge wants to step down for a while now, but there are no candidates stepping forth that he trusts yet enough. Same goes for most positions and titles. Those characters without any titles just aren't making the least effort to get involved and promoted, they just stick to setting their estates and following orders.

And I suspect the same of many realms. There's nothing wrong with active players having many titles.

hint: if you want promotions, Enweil's a good place to go to. There are still plenty of rogue regions about to annex, but we lack the nobles to claim them (while not having anyone really desiring to lord over them anyways).


maybe i'm wrong, but i believe you did not prove much with this argumentation.  estate issues are something to be solved separately.

but even without estate issues solved, i would alway prefer to see realm with 10 regions without double-chars than realm with 20 regions with many double-chars. there is nothing more depressive for me than when large realms are silent, that is why tend to have my chars in smaller realms, less talk is more natural if nothing else.

so, use of second slots to expand realm is some sort of zombie-solution. even worse, if your military foe is doing that often you have no other choice but to try to oppose them in the same manner, as extra slots give really, really strong advantage, nothing else in game can easily overcome.

people in your realm are not interested in council positions? is it not sign of ultimate boredom and lack of some realm's path!? one other thing that i really dislike in large realms - lack of ambitious nobles, it is really, really depressive, currently i spent about two months in such realm on AT, firmly decided to develop my career there, but gave up after two months. how can it be that noone between 50-60 nobles has no any visible ambition. i am not saying everybody should strive to be king, that would lead to anarchy, but when ruler leaves the throne, even temporarily, not a one single person shows ambition to take throne, but 3 or 4 readily step forward stating that they will humbly hold the crown until old ruler comes back. i can understand it in realm of 20-30 nobles, but in realms with 60 nobles that is outrageous in my opinion.

to answer your argument directly - if you have no single noble to even apply for lordship, if no two chars are allowed, you would have to leave with that and find ways how to solve it in-game, that would certainly give much more fun to many, instead of zombi-resurrections of silent family members, who are so disciplined, aligned with their relatives that i personally consider them dull and not trustworthy at all.  ;)

Stue (DC)

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Re: Entrenched families in same realm
« Reply #28: July 21, 2011, 12:58:11 PM »
I've been in realms that allowed multiple positions, and I've been in realms that did not.  And I'm pretty damn confident that the ones that keep to a one position per family rule do better in the long run.  Yeah, it might hurt sometimes in the short-term, I've seen it happen.  But I've been pretty draconian about enforcing that rule in Arcaea, and I've had a number of people tell me they came and joined specifically because of that rule, and I'm sure others did that didn't tell me.

i heard from many that arcarea is funny realm, and if you have such rule, people probably willingly accept to take a little more in-game effort to achieve what they would otherwise achieve with additional family member, which undoubtedly provides much funnier game.

cjnodell

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Re: Entrenched families in same realm
« Reply #29: July 21, 2011, 03:32:28 PM »
While I dislike hoarding power and would almost always prefer to spread the wealth, I am not a big fan of limiting characters per continent. Per realm maybe, but not per continent. I understand why the limitations are there, but it upsets me that my play is degraded because others can not share! The only reason I even want to play multiple characters is to experience different aspects of the game. I have been playing a character in Dwilight for a while now. He is a patriot  and has been very involved in the establishment and development of Barca. I can not bring myself to delete that character. At the same time I have been wanting to play a religious fanatic. The problem is that I really do not want to play anywhere else but Dwilight. I kind of have to though.