Entrenched families in same realm

[Gustav Kuriga]

And can't happen on Dwilight!

Sorry, I was talking about Bedwyr's post.

[Chenier]

That makes me giggle. I tried quite a few times to get a lordship in Enweil, but I never got anywhere. I was being beaten by folk who didn't even open their mouths to say they were running for pity's sake. Is it any wonder that people stop caring and just give up on trying?

That's because you, in particular, made enemies with your moralizing discourses about how Enweil should have let itself die by the monsters instead of accepting the daimons' aid to even the fight out.

A lot of nobles died to the monsters in the invasion. You probably insulted all those who were related to these, or friends to these.

[Chenier]

I've been in realms that allowed multiple positions, and I've been in realms that did not.  And I'm pretty damn confident that the ones that keep to a one position per family rule do better in the long run.  Yeah, it might hurt sometimes in the short-term, I've seen it happen.  But I've been pretty draconian about enforcing that rule in Arcaea, and I've had a number of people tell me they came and joined specifically because of that rule, and I'm sure others did that didn't tell me.

I, and I've heard many others say the same, also avoid such realms at all costs. I figure it balances out in the end.

maybe i'm wrong, but i believe you did not prove much with this argumentation.  estate issues are something to be solved separately.

but even without estate issues solved, i would alway prefer to see realm with 10 regions without double-chars than realm with 20 regions with many double-chars. there is nothing more depressive for me than when large realms are silent, that is why tend to have my chars in smaller realms, less talk is more natural if nothing else.

so, use of second slots to expand realm is some sort of zombie-solution. even worse, if your military foe is doing that often you have no other choice but to try to oppose them in the same manner, as extra slots give really, really strong advantage, nothing else in game can easily overcome.

While you have some good points, having two characters on the same continent encourages people to play specialty classes, such as traders and priests, who add greatly to the game but which players are less inclined to play if they have no other characters present.

[De-Legro]

I, and I've heard many others say the same, also avoid such realms at all costs. I figure it balances out in the end.

Well sure of course people will avoid such realms. Anyone that WANTS more then one title per character is going to avoid such realms, which when you think about it is a blessing for those in the realm, since they are happy not having to deal with power concentration. My experience has been that those realms that have such a policy tend to attract more players, especially the newish players of 3-4 months who are looking to try and get some time as a Lord or Marshal etc.

[Vellos]

The only realm with such a rule I've played in, Rio, doesn't seem to have a huge new-player draw, while the realm I've played in that had the best record for new players, Terran, has no such rule (and most of the really concentrated power is in the hands of new players, interestingly enough).

[Chenier]

Well sure of course people will avoid such realms. Anyone that WANTS more then one title per character is going to avoid such realms, which when you think about it is a blessing for those in the realm, since they are happy not having to deal with power concentration. My experience has been that those realms that have such a policy tend to attract more players, especially the newish players of 3-4 months who are looking to try and get some time as a Lord or Marshal etc.

I don't believe that such rules provide a net boost in recruitment. It attracts those who like it and repels those who don't, and I haven't seen any indication that any group is more important than the other.

It *can* have an edge with opportunists, but *only* if the realm shows other signs of opportunities, such as if it is winning a war and expanding. During the Enweil/Rio war, in which Rio was reduced to Grehk, at least a handful of Riombarans defected to both Enweil and Irombrozia, despite these realms not having such rules* (and the former having many entrenched families). This rule was therefore not a determining factor in that context, and I believe I recall at least one person naming it among the list of things that drove him out of the realm.

*Not 100% certain for Irombrozia

[Vellos]

Irombrozia never had such a rule in any formal sense, but we had so few positions that there were very few times that people held multiple posts.

[vanKaya]

Enweil is not the haven you claim it to be. I joined it cause of all the good things you've been saying but honesty I'm dissapointed.

It's A LOT of order following autobot march-a-thons and the guy with a duke character literally just received a lordship for his other character. Who had the lordship before him, why another character who's relative has a dukeship.

And based on how your character treats the army and the lordships, the offer to be the lord of the next region thats gonna be taken seems like a lap dog position that I have to jump hoops through to be considered.

I would LOVE to get involved but nothing is said to everyone except orders, and lots of them, demands really. Maybe the Council is a dynamic place but I wouldn't know cause it's just ten nobles played by five guys or something ridiculous.

[Chenier]

Uh, dude. Sandlakes and Gorin was an agreement between the two lords. It has nothing to do with anyone else. If you wanted to become a lord, then why didn't you run for the Gorin election that occured very recently? I only put my char's name for it on the very last day. Or why don't you speak up for Tsamn? I'm just waiting for a candidate to have it TOed.

You could have been lord of Gorin easily had you wanted. And you could be lord of Tsamn easily if you want to. But you did not even put your name in the referendum for Gorin, and you did not bother sending a single letter to say you are interested in Tsamn. I honestly did *not* want to be the lord of Gorin, and I only put my name in that referendum in the last turn before its end because no one else was running.

Also, blame yourself if "nothing is said". I've sent messages to all knights of Iato and all vassals of Iato. I've also sent some letters to everyone that had absolutely nothing to do with orders, and also sent copies of exchanges I've just had with a foreign ruler, rather lengthy reads I might add.

But you chose not to react to *any* of my letters. Any of them could have easily resulted in an interested discussion, which was honestly what I was hoping for. After all, I do have regular exchanges with some long-timers, because, you know, they actually bother to reply to me when I write to them? You have absolutely no right to complain when you are granted opportunities and then spit on them.

Yes, the army orders are pretty plain. Move here. Do police work there. Fight rogues next door. What more is there to say? I used to lead a very dynamic army, which was very interesting and in which all the members had become rather tightly-knit and had a blast working together. What's the main thing that changed you imagine? The members of the army I lead. The others showed interest, whereas you do not.

Gorin was a free region. *Anyone* putting their name in for it would have won it. I never would have put mine in were there another candidate, whoever it may be. Tsamn... is a 1% duchy tax and swearing it to the duchy that's financing it's acquisition demanding too much of you now? Because you haven't said a word on it. If people are interested, I could then even TO more regions with the same conditions. It's basically a freebie.

Also, I don't get what your beef with the orders are. They don't come in every turn, only when things change. And what do you mean "demands"? What's so unreasonable of "Move to Pahk to deal with the rogues that just spawned". What the hell kind of orders are you getting elsewhere anyways?

[Lorgan]

Enweil is not the haven you claim it to be. I joined it cause of all the good things you've been saying but honesty I'm dissapointed.

You should've read the Glory of Enweil when it was still being updated. It's the best piece of propaganda and selective reporting in the game and very often outrageously hilarious if you know what is really happening. And that newspaper is obviously only one of many means... :)

[Iltaran]

For what its worth, I think the seven day "grace period" after takeovers may help discourage this. I did appoint a few second characters to Lordships and it was usually because we'd just taken a Bleak/Hateful/Plodding region and needed someone to reduce the tax rate to 4%, set their estate, start holding court, etc etc within the next six hours or the region was going to go into a death spiral and we'd have to TO it all over again.

[Chenier]

You should've read the Glory of Enweil when it was still being updated. It's the best piece of propaganda and selective reporting in the game and very often outrageously hilarious if you know what is really happening. And that newspaper is obviously only one of many means... :)

I was quite frustrated when the invasion started... it hadn't been that long since the 3rd invasion (which had been dreadfully long), and everyone was embroiled in exciting wars. The invasion brought an end to the wars, and paralyzed everyone. Months after its end, we still don't have any wars this time, unlike the 3rd invasion where at least conflicts were looming while the invasion was still on. And unlike the previous two, there are no lands to colonize either. And with all the mortality and deportations on an already severely depopulated continent, nobody really has the manpower to expand anymore.

Conflicts are looming, and I'm trying to make some efforts to make sure they will be interesting, but I have great doubts for how exciting this age will be compared to the last. The mortality replaced those that had struggled for power by those that simply had the most days in realm bothering to apply.

I said that promotions were easy in Enweil. And they are, you just didn't bother with the opportunities. I did not say it had a large flow of realm-wide communication. It did has a reasonable bunch at one time, but then most of they key characters that sparked these conversations died in the invasion. It does have the potential to come back, though. I *am* available and that's still what I want. All that is needed is, you know, other people to react to my letters so that I may in turn react to theirs? Some of the other usually active characters are not so active because of perfectly legitimate OOC reasons too.

The death of Nicolas Chénier, imo, was a great loss for the continent. I never felt as motivated to invest myself into the game since, and I especially no longer had a character with the background and personality to shake things up anymore. I couldn't even make a clone of him if I wanted to anymore. He grew up in Enweil as a superpower. We *could* go pick fights with people and be relatively confident in our odds. But the invasion has done great damage. And while the statistics show that we have finally grown stronger than Rio again, and we could probably do pretty well in a defensive war, an offensive war is just out of the question now. Especially since they stole Fwuvoghor that the monsters took from us. Hetland's not there to pick any fights anymore either.

And with all this blight... Riombara has no one else it could reasonably fight than Enweil, unless it wants to walk really, really far to go beat on Sint or something. doing so, however, would confirm that they are opportunists, since sitting out for most of the invasion while Enweil took the hits allowed it to be in a position to declare war on the super power once more. I also have no idea what kind of bellus causi it could claim this time. Enweil, on the other hand, would be taking a huge risk if it were to trust in the statistics and start a war with Rio. And it wouldn't have the nobles to hold Fwuvoghor anymore anyways.

The Blight is really suffocating opportunities in the South. Break your realm up already, Rio! That's what BT needs, really. Since colonies are impossible, it needs a whole bunch of secessions everywhere to spice things up. I'm kinda discouraged by the fact that if all realms were small they wouldn't each be as effective as small realms currently are, though.

(The destruction of MR and Bara'Khur does not count)

[Lorgan]

I was quite frustrated when the invasion started... it hadn't been that long since the 3rd invasion (which had been dreadfully long), and everyone was embroiled in exciting wars. 

To be honest, all invasions are like that. When the third invasion broke out, Old Grehk was pushing hard on Sint and Ashborn was taking back regions. If it had broken out 2 months later, it would've been a totally different story. Just imagine no Sint to set the dangerous precedent that they did.

The death of Nicolas Chénier, imo, was a great loss for the continent.

As much as I was an opposer of Nicolas and his many many plans, I agree. He was a great enemy.
But such is the way of the world... great men die and new ones rise. Mortality was one of the reasons I unpaused for the fourth invasion but both of my chars survived... :p

doing so, however, would confirm that they are opportunists, since sitting out for most of the invasion while Enweil took the hits allowed it to be in a position to declare war on the super power once more.

During the invasion, I had no idea how Riombara was going to survive and if we did, what would become of us afterwards. We had lost basically everything and couldn't field a very big army, relying mostly on the Temple of the Light. But then MR fell apart and we were back on track. :) Sitting out and destroying 100k CS of monsters are two things that don't really mix well though.
Anyway, I don't know if you've noticed, but our armies _did_ march into Enweilian lands, only to help you fight off the undead and not to seize the opportunity and deliver the fatal blow to the super power of yore.

[Chenier]

The third invasion did interrupt things, but not as many as the fourth. *Everyone* was in a war when the fourth invasion started (except Melhed, but they don't count as they haven't been any any wars since 2005).

Let us take a moment of silence for Nicolas Chénier.

[Vellos]

Break your realm up already, Rio!

You first.