Secession Bug?

[egamma]

This should be turned into a "how to succeed at secession" page on the wiki.

[Chenier]

heh... i've known about cleanup script delay for a year or 2 now i think... surprised Chénier doesn't XD

it does all the auto-pauses, allegiance fixes and stuff like that. that's why you get a spam of system messages at "odd hours" if unlucky

I'm usually not on for the full TC, so anything that happens just a few hours later usually gets lumped with the rest. Plus, I don't remember the last time I saw the allegiance fix code in action.

[Chenier]

GREAT SYSTEM you have here...as my char couldn't appoint a judge to ban the beforehand known nobles who would protest and leave, my char got now forced to step down my massive protests.

The protesters have left the realm in the meantime. That is so unrealistic. Those who want to stay and my char have now no ruler, my char can't candidate. Does anyone know for how long that goes?

Have the lords dissolve the oaths of these people beforehand so they don't get swapped along with the rest.

If you aren't working with the lords, then you are doing it wrong.

[Chenier]

Bad marks will let you revoke their oaths. But they will still be aligned to the region, but with no estate and no oath income. If you revoke their oaths and the secede, they will still come with you. You need to revoke their oaths, then wait for them to join a new duchy.

This should be changed, imo.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

Why? Even better if you don't like them I think. This way you can easily ban them, and if they're too slow or dumb, you can catch and execute/deport them easier.

[Indirik]

Why? Even better if you don't like them I think. This way you can easily ban them, and if they're too slow or dumb, you can catch and execute/deport them easier.

Perhaps you didn't pay attention to the part of the thread where Tim explained how you can't appoint a judge until the next allegiance fix script runs, and even then the new judge has to wait a few days before they can ban anyone, thus allowing them to cause all kinds of damage before they can be banned?

[songqu88@gmail.com]

Yeah...what kind of damage can he do unless he's an Infiltrator, Priest, Trader, or Diplomat? If he's just a normal Warrior or Courtier with a subclass that is not Infiltrator, Trader, or Diplomat, then he's not going to harm your realm. He will NOT harm your realm. The mere fact that he doesn't set an estate, and loots stupid regions, also does not hurt your realm. Maybe if he goes to loot another realm's regions, that causes some stress, but that's easily explained, and if you aren't convincing enough you aren't too qualified to be the ruler anyway.

If he's part of another realm, capturing and banning him might be more difficult, and returning him after a ban sends him to his realm's capital.

Guess what? Maybe Indirik, you have forgotten that when someone is returned from a ban they return to the capital of the realm they are currently a part of? That means, they are in prison for at least a day because only the best infiltrator can escape on the second day, and no hero is going to get captured by his own realm unless he's a priest main.

That means you have more than ample time to get the judge in place and ban him while imprisoned.

If you can't do that, then it wouldn't be any easier if he was part of a foreign realm you know... Same conditions, just not part of your realm. Don't be so quick to divert your attention to irrelevant details and remember what factors are common and significant.

[Indirik]

Yeah...what kind of damage can he do unless he's an Infiltrator, Priest, Trader, or Diplomat? If he's just a normal Warrior or Courtier with a subclass that is not Infiltrator, Trader, or Diplomat, then he's not going to harm your realm. He will NOT harm your realm. The mere fact that he doesn't set an estate, and loots stupid regions, also does not hurt your realm. Maybe if he goes to loot another realm's regions, that causes some stress, but that's easily explained, and if you aren't convincing enough you aren't too qualified to be the ruler anyway.

They protested the ruler out of office. That's what kind of damage they can do.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

Oh yeah, forgot to mention: If they have enough power to get the majority to protest you out of office...You suck at planning a secession.

Then again, that goes for everything in this game. If your opponents really have the ability to outnumber and outmuscle you, then you fail, bye bye, try again some other time. The point is not to allow such a situation to occur, whether by force or by sleight.

In this case, if you seceded and you knew or had a suspicion that the majority of your duchy would be sympathetic to the parent realm, or otherwise against you (Because dissolving oaths tends to piss people off), then you're kind of dumb. And there will be no consolation prizes for being idiotic.

[Chenier]

Oh yeah, forgot to mention: If they have enough power to get the majority to protest you out of office...You suck at planning a secession.

Then again, that goes for everything in this game. If your opponents really have the ability to outnumber and outmuscle you, then you fail, bye bye, try again some other time. The point is not to allow such a situation to occur, whether by force or by sleight.

In this case, if you seceded and you knew or had a suspicion that the majority of your duchy would be sympathetic to the parent realm, or otherwise against you (Because dissolving oaths tends to piss people off), then you're kind of dumb. And there will be no consolation prizes for being idiotic.

You really hate secessions, don't you?

[Perth]

You really hate secessions, don't you?

lol.  ;D

[Peri]

I think that somewhere it was written how the different kind of government influence the amount of protests needed to kick government members out of office. Tyranny thus may protect you a bit more - but I don't know the numbers.

Since I assume that the threshold is generally computed as a percentage, the best way to defend yourself from protests is just make sure that you take on board within your duchy enough nobles that will support you and not protesting. The protesters will thus be a minority, and won't be able to harm the ruler much.

Or as someone already suggested, ask the lords to get rid of them. They will not be automatically thrown out from the duchy, but no one likes to remain without an oath for too much time, and eventually they'll leave for other regions.

[Chenier]

Or as someone already suggested, ask the lords to get rid of them. They will not be automatically thrown out from the duchy, but no one likes to remain without an oath for too much time, and eventually they'll leave for other regions.

"Eventually" being after they kick everyone out of office, and perhaps screw elections up a bit too.

Knights who get their oaths revoked should become imperial. There's no reason secessions should be facing this like it is.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

You really hate secessions, don't you?

I really hate idiots who don't know that mechanics is 50% of the game.

[Chenier]

I really hate idiots who don't know that mechanics is 50% of the game.

With complete disregard as to whether said mechanics are reasonable, justifiable, or fun.