A serious and constructive discussion on recent change in staff involvement

[Chamberlain]

Okay.... so I have a question.

Having been the Ruler of Oligarch during one of the most ridiculous gang situations ever I fully get the idea of trying to restrict this sort of thing happening again.

I get how alliance restrictions work and how secret sects and societies shouldn't be used as defacto alliances. However how does that wash with religions. Particularly active religions can be somewhat aggressive in their pursuit of their religious adversaries, this easily could be a strong reason for a war of annihilation and incorporate many not necessarily allied states who share that dogma... eg. Tnink of the twelfth century crusades, Italian principalities who had fought one another, English, Germanic states, Austria, French, Spanish, all natural enemies at the time unite in the name of the church.

[Anaris]

It's not an all-or-nothing question, and it basically comes down to the same thing as if it was any other force in the game.

It's fine if a religion is the force behind some wars.

It's not fine if a religion gets realms totalling more than 1/3 of the continent to all act like allies.

There's gray area in between those two, in which it would depend more on the particular situation.

The general rules I hope people are taking to heart are

1) Controlling most of a continent is not a "win condition" for BattleMaster, however much it might feel so from the inside. In fact, it's almost the opposite.
2) When in doubt, put yourselfâ€"as honestly as you canâ€"in the shoes of the people on the other side. Would a reasonable, average player find what you are doing to them fun? Do they have any opportunity to interact with it, or is it just a way to destroy them without them having a chance to react meaningfully?

[Medron Pryde]

As usual, the truth is that the Alliance of Free Nations was developed before the alliance limits came into being.  It was a way for all of the people involved to easily talk to each other and share information.  After the limits went in place, and the continental war came to an end, the Free Nations changed their entire mission.  The Free Nations mission had become about helping the realms cooperate against the rogues long before the recent name change.  The Free Nations were explicitly NOT AT ALL geared towards getting everybody together for fighting other human realms.  Direct policies against that in fact.  Any portrayals of the Free Nations that do not include that fact are dishonest portrayals.

I say this being greatly in favor of working to deconstruct mega-alliances.  I helped to break the great Taran-Cagilan Alliance that had dominated Atamara because I agreed with that idea.  And I've fostered several rival religions to the one I inherited on Beluaterra.  Granted, most of that has been by me taking certain annoying stances to others, waiting for others to form their own religions, and then sitting back and doing nothing about them until they feel their oats enough to start attacking my religion.  At which point, I really can't help but slap back in some way.  ;)  I love having actual competition in the religion game again over there, and have so far managed to tread that line of OOC support for them while IC rhetoric preaches about their evils.  And also a whole lot of "I as a player know what they are up to, but the character I play has not figured it out yet.  SHE can't read wikis like I can."  Hehehe.

One issue to stopping mega-alliances, is obviously our human wish to join others.  We are herd creatures.  We like to join together in groups before we go out to beat up other people.  And the larger our group is, the better for us.  That can lead to some severe mega-alliances when in a game like this.  And it truly is a natural impulse we all have.  Trust me.  I've been there.  I've helped build some pretty mega-alliances in my time.  Just as I've helped bring them down.  A time or two I've helped bring down an alliance I helped build.  That is a surreal experience, let me tell you.