Author Topic: WAR  (Read 142004 times)

Chenier

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Re: WAR
« Reply #105: August 11, 2011, 12:59:33 PM »
No reason to recruit to full strength for fighting monsters and undead. At least that was my philosophy as a Lord in Fronen. I maintained a reasonable sized unit and saved my gold for other things. With people to fight I am leading about double the CS.

I know, but look at that! Fronen's constant CS rise is insane.

I predict for this age: the royal beating of all opportunists who thought they'd have the upper hand by ganging up and declaring first.
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Solari

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Re: WAR
« Reply #106: August 11, 2011, 03:04:21 PM »
I know, but look at that! Fronen's constant CS rise is insane.

I predict for this age: the royal beating of all opportunists who thought they'd have the upper hand by ganging up and declaring first.

This prediction is going to look awfully silly soon.

Zakilevo

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Re: WAR
« Reply #107: August 11, 2011, 06:50:33 PM »
Holy crap! Melhed is joining Thalmarkin? Is Melhed even capable of sending any army?

Nosferatus

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Re: WAR
« Reply #108: August 11, 2011, 07:10:23 PM »
Holy crap! Melhed is joining Thalmarkin? Is Melhed even capable of sending any army?
geuss about 10 k, your !@#$ed.
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Zakilevo

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Re: WAR
« Reply #109: August 11, 2011, 07:32:54 PM »
Melhed is just as greedy as others :P I doubt all of 10k will move together seeing how unorganized Melhed has been. I bet you guys will probably be arguing where to march for the next few months.

Nosferatus

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Re: WAR
« Reply #110: August 11, 2011, 07:55:41 PM »
Melhed is just as greedy as others :P I doubt all of 10k will move together seeing how unorganized Melhed has been. I bet you guys will probably be arguing where to march for the next few months.

funny my char, who voted against this is now asking not to use her region :P
other discusions have already broken out in the senate that are much more important, count in an extra 3 months.
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Geronus

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Re: WAR
« Reply #111: August 11, 2011, 07:56:35 PM »
Man this is getting as bad as Atamara was before the current war. BT had such a great war going before the invasion, and now we have to replace it with AT style gang bangs? Ugh...

Zakilevo

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Re: WAR
« Reply #112: August 11, 2011, 08:01:30 PM »
yeah. Fronen is turning into Abington pretty much. Shame there aren't enough realm for an eight to one war.

Shizzle

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Re: WAR
« Reply #113: August 11, 2011, 08:06:03 PM »
funny my char, who voted against this is now asking not to use her region :P
other discusions have already broken out in the senate that are much more important, count in an extra 3 months.

What can possibly be more important than a continent-wide war, lol

Zakilevo

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Re: WAR
« Reply #114: August 11, 2011, 08:16:21 PM »
a realm wide shortage of toilet papers..

Stue (DC)

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Re: WAR
« Reply #115: August 11, 2011, 10:52:02 PM »
If disorderly, unstable Bara'Khur could survive the assaults of four realms when all her allies were largely twiddling their thumbs and pursuing their own conflicts/agendas in the pre-Invasion war, I thoroughly expect Fronen to give a decent account of herself now. Nothoi especially won't be nearly as fearsome as she first appears. Those mountains are hell to wage a war through, believe me.

this is quite different war, unfortunately at cost of gameplay quality.

bara'khurian hardships, no matter how frustrating in-game they sometimes were, that was mostly thrilling in-game experience, as most of rulers followed their IC storylines, so they could be talked with even if being hard enemies, and ic argumentation could lead to decisions with sensible influence on game.

currently it really looks as trivial gangbang agreement with no or little care for any storyline, and some rulers seems to not be playing this game at all over what is necessary to not be auto-removed.

thalmarkin is particularly absurd place, once it was known after strong and notable characters, and their current leadership look as marionettes, where you can see hand who run marionette better than her own shape.

signing long-prepared peace declaration and than changing stance radically within about two weeks really does not have any flavor.

sint openly admitted that they joined war as they have nothing else to do. besides the fact that og took them half of territory, and they always wanted to expand their faith, their will send their priests to long distance, and they will send their army to long distance just to have super-safe gangbang war instead of ic-justified war with more than enough reasoning to begin.

what further diplomacy could be expected in that respect?

military issues not to mention. more and more continents are coming into situation where wars like 150 players vs. 40 players are "normal" (though short-lasting) while they are often unplayable.

in previous Bt war, each and every realm had its traditions and loyalties, rulers had their personalities, and it was matter of many months of diplomatic, and sometimes combined diplomatic and military efforts to affect that loyalties, now that changes can happen within few days, without any effort to develop good ic justifications.

Solari

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Re: WAR
« Reply #116: August 11, 2011, 11:00:12 PM »
It is very easy to accuse realms, councils, and rulers of acts or inclinations when you aren't privy to the discussions.  Thalmarkin is hardly some devil or shade of its former self.  We had a bunch of known clanners.  They were dealt with and expelled IC.  Some of them don't like that.  Tough !@#$.  That doesn't make us tyrants, it makes us good players who have the decency to abide by the social contract.

Before the war, we were the smallest realm on the continent.  Now, we're the second-smallest.  And while the contributions of OG and Sint can't be overlooked, Vore and Jedinchel are entirely our victories and the result of an entire realm working together as a team.  It's a novel concept, I know.

There were no sudden decisions to go to war with Fronen, and no drastic shifts in public opinion in the realm.  If Gondolin or Lorgan want to say something more on that, they can.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2011, 11:02:17 PM by Solari »

Shizzle

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Re: WAR
« Reply #117: August 11, 2011, 11:41:35 PM »
It is very easy to accuse realms, councils, and rulers of acts or inclinations when you aren't privy to the discussions.  Thalmarkin is hardly some devil or shade of its former self.  We had a bunch of known clanners.  They were dealt with and expelled IC.  Some of them don't like that.  Tough !@#$.  That doesn't make us tyrants, it makes us good players who have the decency to abide by the social contract.

Before the war, we were the smallest realm on the continent.  Now, we're the second-smallest.  And while the contributions of OG and Sint can't be overlooked, Vore and Jedinchel are entirely our victories and the result of an entire realm working together as a team.  It's a novel concept, I know.

There were no sudden decisions to go to war with Fronen, and no drastic shifts in public opinion in the realm.  If Gondolin or Lorgan want to say something more on that, they can.

Clanners? Are you referring to the Lastfell group?

I have a character in Thalmarkin currently, and am very happy with it. I don't feel like a puppet at all, being Marshal of the Legion of the Wolf. I guess that could mean I really am a puppet, but I don't think so. Call me naive, but I'd say Thalmarkin really is an example of team play, and the King is an example to me (I'm hoping for a ruler position in the near future), as well as many other players. I can say I'm not new to BM, but I can still learn from several fellow Thalmarkians!

Lorgan

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Re: WAR
« Reply #118: August 12, 2011, 12:13:13 AM »
If Gondolin or Lorgan want to say something more on that, they can.

I definitely do. This war has been in the works since roughly a month after the end of the invasion at the latest. That it comes as a surprise to you is to be credited to the allies in stead of blaming them for playing the game badly. You can't be *GIANT*, have a history and a current policy of pissing off neighbours and allies AND neglect to make friends or destroy your enemies. Even the changed geographical situation should've pointed you towards the obvious from the very beginning: rich, non-decimated lands around the lake, all in the hands of Fronen, beaten down realms surrounding it, their lands lost in the blight. I wonder what may come from that...
Yes, Sint vs. OG would've made a great war, but how was OG going to do that with an - in their opinion - untrustworthy and clearly expansionist Fronen in their back? Not to mention they've been allied with Sint for a while now, and Sint tends to be a good ally.

The constant increase in Fronen's military shows that if the allies had gone any other way about this than the "out of the blue" attack, they would've been crushed at the first attempt. And Fronen has no one to blame but herself for not doing what they are doing now a lot earlier. The signs for war were there. Days before the actual attack the King of Thalmarkin even informed Doge Diana that Thalmarkin would go to war against her. And still, when we attacked, Vore had 2.5k militia, Yipinalke maybe 2k and there was no real mobile army (that could have been expected from a realm like Fronen that had been warned that war was coming) in sight.

All in all, the allies played the game well, it is Fronen that failed. I don't believe for one second that the war is over even though Melhed joining against Fronen could speed it up and I'm even more surprised by that as I was about Iato's secession. But I haven't heard anything of it IG so I'm still a little sceptical about it to be honest, this is going against all rumours that we heard before, even against a ton of earlier votes.

Also, the rule stands: if you want respect on BT, fight against the invaders and do your part, even if you suffer for it. Fronen did not earn any respect this invasion. Even Sint earned more. At least in my opinion, which of course may very well be biased.
What do you have to think though when you're in Thalmarkin, holding on to every penny, every recruit, every bushel of food for the entire invasion and then Fronen waltzes in accompanied by the sound of trumpets right when the undead have left, sits in Unger for a week eating food that was bought from OG and Sint and then they blindly walk into the blight with their *entire* army and lose at least half of it because - you know - the blight hurts?
As the surviving realm who has suffered most in the invasion without giving in to any demands, I think Thalmarkin has the right to claim some lands from the weak and the useless, and that is the pure IC opinion of my character. I'm sure that Fronen did do things, I just did not see or hear much of them.

And as for strong characters... I assure you that we've still got our share of those. It causes some good drama every once in a while but with the exception of those who have been banned, they can still work together and actually achieve things other than constant bickering. Marionettes are wooden dolls on strings. When people are eating pies, they're the ones that don't take a piece.

Anyway, in conclusion I'd say that BT politics have not changed that much, except for the fact that there was no colonization period this time and there were a few realms who sat on their ass while all the others were busy.

Chenier

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Re: WAR
« Reply #119: August 12, 2011, 01:00:52 AM »
Also, the rule stands: if you want respect on BT, fight against the invaders and do your part, even if you suffer for it. Fronen did not earn any respect this invasion. Even Sint earned more. At least in my opinion, which of course may very well be biased.

Hardly. Fronen *did* do a lot, just not all up North. They helped us in Enweil quite a few times against the monsters, plus the times they fought the undead in the North.

OG and Sint did barely anything. Melhed did worse, it almost attacked Thalmarkin for not siding with the undead. A great chunk of Rio's nobles served the monsters and wanted nothing else than to destroy other human realms. Nothoi is, from what I gather, the heirs of the most pro-daimon faction in Bara'Khur.

In fact, the invasion proves quite the contrary. Siding with the invaders makes little difference in the end, it's just a matter of surviving and convincing enough people that the others did worse than you did, regardless of the veracity of any of your arguments.
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