WAR

[Zakilevo]

You don't have to cover your greed with such excuses really. The former doge of Fronen didn't share a single letter. I think the player just wanted to play a naive but a greedy character who wished her family controlling two realms on the same continent. Too bad he didn't play well and made his two characters leave the continent. Those remaining on the continent has to suffer for it. Well maybe I should just go bat!@#$ crazy and order crazy offensive. Who knows lol.

[Chenier]

Boys will be boys.

[Geronus]

I didn't mean to imply anything about anyone. I agree that Fronen had it coming to a large extent. However, the projected move by Melhed to join in is very disappointing, as it is blatantly cynical, even hypocritical considering what Melhed's ruler said about the war at the beginning.

Also Thalmarkin should not take so much credit for their victories. Other than the three on one battle in Yipinalke that kicked off the war, all they did was fight our militia. Hardly a reason to pat oneself on the back...

[Chenier]

I didn't mean to imply anything about anyone. I agree that Fronen had it coming to a large extent. However, the projected move by Melhed to join in is very disappointing, as it is blatantly cynical, even hypocritical considering what Melhed's ruler said about the war at the beginning.

Also Thalmarkin should not take so much credit for their victories. Other than the three on one battle in Yipinalke that kicked off the war, all they did was fight our militia. Hardly a reason to pat oneself on the back...

I agree about Melhed. I don't like gangbangs... Melhed joining in against Fronen, for no reason whatsoever, feels rather lame. I can understand wanting to be in a war, and can understand not wanting to risk too much, but this would be ridiculous.

[Geronus]

Hence the comparison to Atamara as it was for quite a while before the current conflict.

[DoctorHarte]

It's also partly the fact that the 'allies' hadn't much reason to attack Fronen. Yeah, they had their 'war crimes' but so did some of the allies. If they had worked on a better reason rather than just go with "There was gonna be war anyways, so why not start now?", the war would have gone over a lot better with Fronen and the rest of BT.  Riombara also had little reason to declare war on Enweil, especially after their peace was working out so well.

As I see it, the allies didn't want to lose their surprise-attack-chance so they said screw reason, we want war. Yes, BattleMaster is about wars and fighting each other, but too many players have forgotten that this is also a role-play game and they do need reason for their actions.

[De-Legro]

It's also partly the fact that the 'allies' hadn't much reason to attack Fronen. Yeah, they had their 'war crimes' but so did some of the allies. If they had worked on a better reason rather than just go with "There was gonna be war anyways, so why not start now?", the war would have gone over a lot better with Fronen and the rest of BT.  Riombara also had little reason to declare war on Enweil, especially after their peace was working out so well.

As I see it, the allies didn't want to lose their surprise-attack-chance so they said screw reason, we want war. Yes, BattleMaster is about wars and fighting each other, but too many players have forgotten that this is also a role-play game and they do need reason for their actions.

With all the bad blood between Rio and Enweil there is ALWAYS an excellent reason for war, no matter how well a peace has been working. The main problem with people declaring any war a "simple" gang bang is that for at least 50% of the time, there have been excellent reasons and RP for the war, just the people whining aren't privy to that.

[Chenier]

With all the bad blood between Rio and Enweil there is ALWAYS an excellent reason for war, no matter how well a peace has been working. The main problem with people declaring any war a "simple" gang bang is that for at least 50% of the time, there have been excellent reasons and RP for the war, just the people whining aren't privy to that.

There were a million reasons for Enweil and Rio to eventually go to war. But the timing and declaration was very hollow, and therefore lame. It was just "Oh well, the others are fighting, so we may as well too".

Maybe I'm just old school, but I like looming conflicts to actually be sparked by something interesting, and not just "because we could". Especially not at this scale. Takes all the epicness out of the huge war that broke out.

There are reasons explaining the blocs, and the tensions, but I'm used to wars on BT having more depth and panache than that.

[Geronus]

With all the bad blood between Rio and Enweil there is ALWAYS an excellent reason for war, no matter how well a peace has been working. The main problem with people declaring any war a "simple" gang bang is that for at least 50% of the time, there have been excellent reasons and RP for the war, just the people whining aren't privy to that.

With Riombara it's almost like a tradition, but there's no substantive reason for the current war. The theoretical justification is all about Fronen. However, Enweil didn't even do anything to help Fronen - they didn't send troops, they didn't declare war on Fronen's enemies. That makes Riombara's stated justification empty at best. Really, they just want to fight Enweil for the sake of fighting Enweil. They have no other reason.

As for Fronen, three of the four realms at war with us have perfectly good reasons to be. Sint however has openly stated IC that they're basically doing it for fun. And Melhed, well, they have no reason at all. They just finished slamming the other realms at war with Fronen for having crappy justifications, and now they're about to do a 180 and declare war for even less reason than the realms they just finished criticizing. You can't tell me that they have 'excellent reasons and RP' for doing what they're doing.

[De-Legro]

With Riombara it's almost like a tradition, but there's no substantive reason for the current war. The theoretical justification is all about Fronen. However, Enweil didn't even do anything to help Fronen - they didn't send troops, they didn't declare war on Fronen's enemies. That makes Riombara's stated justification empty at best. Really, they just want to fight Enweil for the sake of fighting Enweil. They have no other reason.

You mean other then the fact that the invasion that stopped the last war had ended and Rio obviously thought they were in a position to win a war at this stage? Reasons don't always need to have a new catalyst, nor do the PUBLIC reasons need to be the true ones, or even particularly good lies. Go back through history and examine some of the terribly stupid public rationals for wars.

[Geronus]

I don't disagree. I'm simply pointing out that their stated reason is complete malarkey. Personally, I've never cared for spurious justifications. I like it better when people are direct. I can respect that.

[Bedwyr]

Let us also not forget that "I want more land" is a perfectly legitimate IC reason to declare war.  And the longer I play the game, the more I find that "gangbangs" are what people call it when their realm gets outmaneuvered politically.  Yes, I'd like to see more equal wars, but given the mind-numbingly idiotic things I see realms and Rulers doing on a regular basis, I get more than a little sick of people complaining about how they're getting hammered when they brought it on themselves.  My preference to see fewer gangbangs isn't going to get in my characters' way when someone calls his ally a peasant whore.

[DoctorHarte]

Reason makes for better game-play and a more fun atmosphere overall. By leaving that out, Riombara is doing the inevitable without playing the full game of BattleMaster. 

[De-Legro]

Let us also not forget that "I want more land" is a perfectly legitimate IC reason to declare war.  And the longer I play the game, the more I find that "gangbangs" are what people call it when their realm gets outmaneuvered politically.  Yes, I'd like to see more equal wars, but given the mind-numbingly idiotic things I see realms and Rulers doing on a regular basis, I get more than a little sick of people complaining about how they're getting hammered when they brought it on themselves.  My preference to see fewer gangbangs isn't going to get in my characters' way when someone calls his ally a peasant whore.

Indeed, it would be like Arcaea complaining that everyone wants to jump into a war with them, when we have been
A) Successful
B) We are the largest Realm
C) We are aggressive and
D) it is well known our King wants to rule the continent

[Geronus]

Let us also not forget that "I want more land" is a perfectly legitimate IC reason to declare war.  And the longer I play the game, the more I find that "gangbangs" are what people call it when their realm gets outmaneuvered politically.  Yes, I'd like to see more equal wars, but given the mind-numbingly idiotic things I see realms and Rulers doing on a regular basis, I get more than a little sick of people complaining about how they're getting hammered when they brought it on themselves.  My preference to see fewer gangbangs isn't going to get in my characters' way when someone calls his ally a peasant whore.

Again, I don't disagree. It's when people are disingenuous about their motives that I get annoyed. And Fronen absolutely got outmaneuvered politically. Our previous Doge was a diplomatic dunce...