Author Topic: WAR  (Read 142352 times)

Chenier

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Re: WAR
« Reply #135: August 12, 2011, 05:51:05 AM »
Again, I don't disagree. It's when people are disingenuous about their motives that I get annoyed. And Fronen absolutely got outmaneuvered politically. Our previous Doge was a diplomatic dunce...

I have little faith in your current one, though, to do much better.

Your fate is on your military leaders' shoulders now.
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vanKaya

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Re: WAR
« Reply #136: August 12, 2011, 05:59:10 AM »
I don't disagree. I'm simply pointing out that their stated reason is complete malarkey. Personally, I've never cared for spurious justifications. I like it better when people are direct. I can respect that.

lol

i realize beluaterra isn't sma or anything but you do realize the official reason for pretty much every war in history has been total malarkey. The real reason is apparent for anyone who looks, and the same is true of this one. think about it, you know exactly why fronen is being gang banged. and it doesnt have to do with diplomacy, it has to do with practicality.
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Iltaran

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Re: WAR
« Reply #137: August 12, 2011, 08:44:38 AM »
War is a matter of both the head and the heart.

So there were pragmatic reasons for striking at them. For a start, Fronen was simply really, really big; double the size of Sint or Old Grehk and three times the size of Thalmarkin even before they took Dyomoque. One badly timed rebellion or a foolish ruler and the north could easily have belonged to Fronen if they were smart. They had five rich regions sitting on the border with Thalmarkin and OG, meaning there was no need to TO rurals (which we've already got in spades). Fronen's only close ally was/is Enweil and keeping them out of the fight was/is nice and easy.

But there were plenty of less calculating things behind the decision. As Lorgan's already said, the north was more of less abandoned by Fronen during the Invasion. OG had 5 nobles die at the hands of the Undead, about a fifth of our characters. At one stage we lost our only city and capital, Ossmat, and were down to a grand total of four regions (Vatrona, Mekoter, Junohep and Xerus). We only survived because we surrendered to the Undead. Even after we surrendered, OG quietly supplied Thalmarkin and Sint with food. Jack Carnes brought 50 archers to help defend Ossmat, that was the only help we got from Fronen. Meanwhile, the two regions Fronen lost during the whole invasion were Yipinalke and Jedinchel; neither was lost for more than a week or two and OG actually helped them reclaim both.

You could say we're a touch bitter. And thats not even getting into the Fronen-OG wars that came before that...
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Fleugs

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Re: WAR
« Reply #138: August 12, 2011, 09:06:14 AM »
It seems to me that several players from the Fronen-Enweil bloc in this thread are a little... butthurt. Pardon my French, I guess. But I find it childish to come to the forum and shout about gangbangs while it should not come as a surprise to you whatsoever. That Fronen had it coming, was just plain obvious. I mean, who likes Fronen? Think about this. Fronen was loved a long time ago but have you, in the past year, heard someone out of Fronen said something nice about it? No, practically the entire northern part of the continent was just out for blood and it couldn't be easier than to attack Fronen by surprise. Tough luck that they had a bad Doge. Fronen got knocked down into the dirt and needs to lift itself up, undust its shoulders and smack back. They still have plenty of potential, and with some hard diplomatic work they might actually be able to convince Melhed to join their side (in which case, they would have endless respect for convincing Melhed to join a war).

Whining and moaning about a "lame" attack on Enweil is childish in itself. Enweil has been the "BT-cop" since 5 or 6 years, and it is a public secret that everybody wants to kick this cop in the groins. Is it a surprise that Riombara, a realm completely locked behind Enweil, attacks that ever-lasting archenemy? Are you, seriously, surprised? Seriously? Look at the map, really. The game's called Battlemaster and there's only one place to go battle for Riombara...

To those players of Fronen and Enweil complaining: suck it up. You act as if you are a victim, but you are equally a cause. There will be plenty of reasons for the aggressors to explain why they are attacking, and more reasons for the defenders to cry about their "injustice". Both are biased. Wars happen. Battlemaster.
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Stue (DC)

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Re: WAR
« Reply #139: August 12, 2011, 10:41:43 AM »
It is very easy to accuse realms, councils, and rulers of acts or inclinations when you aren't privy to the discussions.  Thalmarkin is hardly some devil or shade of its former self.  We had a bunch of known clanners.  They were dealt with and expelled IC.  Some of them don't like that.  Tough !@#$.  That doesn't make us tyrants, it makes us good players who have the decency to abide by the social contract.

some things are easy to see, some are not.

if thalmarkin ruler signs peace declaration of long friendship with fronen, than comes one week later to state that thalmarkin has years-long claim for jedinchel, and that is the reason they will come to war, than you can recognize that almost no story or no play can be developed, there is nothing but simple gang-bang number counting, no any care for story.

with sint it is even more awkward. that is simply not a game where people play nobles, but play slots.

Before the war, we were the smallest realm on the continent.  Now, we're the second-smallest.  And while the contributions of OG and Sint can't be overlooked, Vore and Jedinchel are entirely our victories and the result of an entire realm working together as a team.  It's a novel concept, I know.

from this i can only see that you might not ever experienced little more quality in bm. there are no any of your victory over dragging some game mechanics to the limits.

you gathered armies at the borders, notified that you will declare war day in advance and than declared and attacked in gang-bang manner, drawing all advantage from the fact that game mechanics allows blitzkrieg wars.

you did not fight any single real battle, where two sides compete each other in any playable manner, did not present and skill/braveness/experience, anything.

teamwork and developing ic friendship can nicely emerge when there are some challenges, some competition between two powers, some undetermined future, not in super-safe gangbangs.

there was no competition, there was no play, and that is what i am mostly talking about.

There were no sudden decisions to go to war with Fronen, and no drastic shifts in public opinion in the realm.  If Gondolin or Lorgan want to say something more on that, they can.

yes they were and they can even be tracked by archive of diplomatic declarations.

to be understood, my char is not the one directly accounted for any of it, he does think fronen ruler did terrible job, yet when i see how little effort is made in highest levels, i can be only disappointed in gameplay on bt generally.

that continent was true place of sophisticated diplomacy before invasion.

if i am master of universe, i would put into government rules that all goverment members need to be characters.  :-\




vonGenf

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Re: WAR
« Reply #140: August 12, 2011, 10:52:39 AM »
yes they were and they can even be tracked by archive of diplomatic declarations.

You don't believe all of what's written in those, do you?
After all it's a roleplaying game.

Lorgan

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Re: WAR
« Reply #141: August 12, 2011, 11:49:12 AM »
if i am master of universe, i would put into government rules that all goverment members need to be characters.  :-\

You're really accusing people of pretty serious things here. Please take note that you don't know everything about what moved the North to band all together and attack Fronen, and if you don't know it then that means that there is no reason for you, or any member of Fronen, to know.

Stue (DC)

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Re: WAR
« Reply #142: August 12, 2011, 12:26:47 PM »
you are talking nonsense, there is no any accusation over accusation for bad play, and that one is not punishable, and generally i do not see enough desire to discuss about any facts. sending general statements supported by nothing is not useful.

i really don't care what has been discussed on north, and i would have not time to study it deeply. ???

only what i know is:
- peace declaration of long-term friendship signed with no mention about any thalmarkin claim on fronen
- peace declaration suddenly broken, claim suddenly appeared from some far history
- all in about 10 days.

Fleugs

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Re: WAR
« Reply #143: August 12, 2011, 12:30:32 PM »
Ah, politics. And the Fronites will keep on crying whilst their realm is washed away.
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Solari

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Re: WAR
« Reply #144: August 12, 2011, 01:01:45 PM »
I won't lie.  Whereas I was perfectly content, IC and OOC, to let Fronen walk away with far more than they deserved, this griefing on the forums is pushing me toward the annihilation camp IC.

It's a game.  Shut up and play it.

Chenier

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Re: WAR
« Reply #145: August 12, 2011, 01:31:49 PM »
It seems to me that several players from the Fronen-Enweil bloc in this thread are a little... butthurt. Pardon my French, I guess. But I find it childish to come to the forum and shout about gangbangs while it should not come as a surprise to you whatsoever. That Fronen had it coming, was just plain obvious. I mean, who likes Fronen? Think about this. Fronen was loved a long time ago but have you, in the past year, heard someone out of Fronen said something nice about it? No, practically the entire northern part of the continent was just out for blood and it couldn't be easier than to attack Fronen by surprise. Tough luck that they had a bad Doge. Fronen got knocked down into the dirt and needs to lift itself up, undust its shoulders and smack back. They still have plenty of potential, and with some hard diplomatic work they might actually be able to convince Melhed to join their side (in which case, they would have endless respect for convincing Melhed to join a war).

Whining and moaning about a "lame" attack on Enweil is childish in itself. Enweil has been the "BT-cop" since 5 or 6 years, and it is a public secret that everybody wants to kick this cop in the groins. Is it a surprise that Riombara, a realm completely locked behind Enweil, attacks that ever-lasting archenemy? Are you, seriously, surprised? Seriously? Look at the map, really. The game's called Battlemaster and there's only one place to go battle for Riombara...

To those players of Fronen and Enweil complaining: suck it up. You act as if you are a victim, but you are equally a cause. There will be plenty of reasons for the aggressors to explain why they are attacking, and more reasons for the defenders to cry about their "injustice". Both are biased. Wars happen. Battlemaster.

I'm not butthurt. I'm quite confident that, this time, Riombara will die. They no longer have a thousand realms surrounding Enweil to backstab us. We almost killed them twice already, only to be saved by a huge gang bang and then the invasion.

Nor am I saying that Fronen didn't have it coming.

I'm just saying the way it blew up was rather lame.

And I take offense to "pardon my french".
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Fleugs

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Re: WAR
« Reply #146: August 12, 2011, 01:37:30 PM »
Chénier, you are by far the most  hypocritical person in this thread. You complain about some "bogus" reason as to why Riombara attacks Enweil, you boast that Riombara will be simply removed from BT... and neglect to mention that your secession was perfectly timed when Riombara invaded Enweil? Don't bull!@#$ everyone with "it was just random timing". It was a little too random.
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Sypher

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Re: WAR
« Reply #147: August 12, 2011, 01:53:44 PM »
Eh, I'm glad there is a war happening (finally). Fighting rogues is boring. I have a character in Fronen, we will probably lose a lot of regions before the other realms turn on each other.

As for the gang-bang suggestion, I don't see it. I've seen some pretty lopsided wars, I've had a character on Atamara since 2006. I see it as more of a complement of how they viewed Fronen before the war started. I'm guessing they expected a much tougher fight in the beginning stages and if Fronen had their armies in good position for the first attack we probably would have done a better job of living up to what seems to be an over-generous assessment of Fronen's fighting capabilities.


Stue (DC)

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Re: WAR
« Reply #148: August 12, 2011, 01:56:57 PM »
I won't lie.  Whereas I was perfectly content, IC and OOC, to let Fronen walk away with far more than they deserved, this griefing on the forums is pushing me toward the annihilation camp IC.

It's a game.  Shut up and play it.

..which only shows that you are unable to differ ic and ooc.

actually, why don't you shut up? if you don't want to talk, why are you on forums?

i tried to initiate some discussion about quality of gameplay, providing some in-game fact, but instead of discussion, there is avoidance whcih locks discussion though many words are being said.

actually, we might lose 5 to 1 war, but with your approach i am pretty sure you would be obliterated  with say 2 to 1 advantage  ::)

Fleugs

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Re: WAR
« Reply #149: August 12, 2011, 02:02:08 PM »
i tried to initiate some discussion about quality of gameplay, providing some in-game fact, but instead of discussion, there is avoidance whcih locks discussion though many words are being said.

No you didn't. You tried to raise some pathetic sympathy for a realm that is, let's be honest, being outnumbered and outplayed. What you should be doing is getting over yourself and accepting the situation. I think it's highly unlikely that Fronen will be completely destroyed... but they will have to shrink severely. You use the "discussion for better gameplay" as a cover while I am absolutely certain that when you are part of the "gangbanging group", you won't be hanging around in threads calling for "fair play".

There is no such thing as fair play. There is no referee. If you don't want to be in a realm that is outnumbered, then get out. Don't come here and cry about it.

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