WAR

[Chenier]

So... Melhed just signed peace with Fronen. They'll get Jyl and will refuse to let any enemy of Fronen's travel through their lands. Basically it's a pathetic attempt of trying to save Fronen.. Or an excellent attempt to drag all of us down in their spiral of peace of boredom.

They remind me of a kid that keeps on whining he wants to play the game the other kids are playing, then when they let him in, he breaks the toy.

Respect for Melhed? - (add big number here)

Seriously? Melhed joined the war because of TMP, it really had no reason to attack Fronen whatsoever to begin with, not to mention that doing so was extremely lame as they were joining in on a gang-bang in which they risked nothing at all.

Then, the rest of the northern alliance negotiates with Fronen without involving Melhed? And you are then surprised that Melhed doesn't want to face Fronen alone, and decides to back out of the war before you do?

I can't even begin to comprehend how you can say "Or an excellent attempt to drag all of us down in their spiral of peace of boredom". Melhed was not a factor in starting this war. You do not require to pass by their lands to attack Fronen. And by increasing Fronen's odds, they are increasing the chances of the war lasting longer, as Fronen isn't fighting such desperate odds anymore. The spiral to quick peace would have been allowing you to gangbang Fronen to death quickly, so that you may then gangbang Fheuv'n to death quickly, and then either be stuck in peace if Enweil did not defend Fheuv'n, or you make up some new stupid excuse to violate your treaty with Fronen to gangbang Enweil's flank to bring down down quickly. This is your long-term plan to enjoyable wars? Gangbang everyone to death with overwhelming number of realms on the attack?

Melhed didn't break "anything". They helped you in your war, even if not significantly. Vozzessdor and Fronen's western lands remain valid targets, much more than Fronen's eastern regions ever were.

You have plenty of opportunities for fun wars. You really suck if Melhed just ruined anything for you. If it's that much of a problem, just ignore the treaty and march through Jyl anyways. Surely that will prevent their "spiral to peace and boredom".

Yes I believe I realize the implications of the treaty... and I know that the Northern Alliance's treaty was risky for isolating Melhed (even though they isolated themselves). Geronus played it excellently.

Melhed is still a little kid breaking the toy for it though. Their involvement in this war has been nothing short of pathetic.  6 years of peace and then they do this... it is clever and a huge help for Fronen but this has been without a doubt the most pathetic little war I've seen a realm "fight" in 8 years of BM. And Melhed /deserves/ to be scorned for it.

The hell were you expecting of Melhed, anyways? They were very divided on the issue, and as you said, have been at peace for 6 years. If you expected anything more of them than what you did, I'd say you are the one who had a problem.

Nothing is broken. Jyl was never a very good passage to attack by anyways, due to how far it is for Sint and Nothoi. And if you really need it, then just ignore Melhed's treaty. After all, why do you care, since their military capacity is so pathetic?

[Zakilevo]

I do not think Melhed would  be much threat anyway. Marching through their lands won't cause too much trouble. They won't be able to act fast enough.

[Silverhawk]

hmm, to fight 4 and have peace with 1 or have peace with 4 and fight 1......

I say Fronen took the possible worst option for them. Fronen VS Melhed 1 on 1, my gold would be on Fronen.

[Chenier]

hmm, to fight 4 and have peace with 1 or have peace with 4 and fight 1......

I say Fronen took the possible worst option for them. Fronen VS Melhed 1 on 1, my gold would be on Fronen.

Assuming Fronen would want to abandon their allies to their fate?

Riombara is a strong but fragile foe. Cracking its shell is very tough, but once you do so, finishing them off is easy. Your propose peace would have resulted in Fronen losing her southern allies, and then being stuck in a continent where nobody likes them anymore.

If they can hold out long enough for Fheuv'n and Enweil to take down Riombara, though? Good luck, Northern Alliance! You'll need it!

It's a gamble. Peace can seem desirable to Fronen on the short term, but on the long term, it needs allies. And for that, it's better to risk dying and having realms that would be more than willing to create it anew than to alienate their only allies and be stranded with a tiny realm without friends in the dead center of the continent surrounded by greedy and opportunistic realms.

[Lorgan]

Seriously? Melhed joined the war because of TMP, it really had no reason to attack Fronen whatsoever to begin with, not to mention that doing so was extremely lame as they were joining in on a gang-bang in which they risked nothing at all.

Exactly my point. Lame beginning, lame ending. I saw this as Melhed's chance to redeem themselves, yet they've taken it as an opportunity to secure their title of "Lamest Realm of BM". Their decision to join against Fronen was a huge disappointment too. If they wanted to help Fronen, they should've grown a pair and joined them in the war, not declare war, fight a few skirmishes and then back out a few months later long before the war is over. Even just sending monetary aid would've been better. Even now, if they want to help Fronen, they should just attack the Northern Alliance.
Maybe Jyl actually is the price for switching sides, I hope so at least. Even though that wouldn't do their reputation a lot of good either.

The spiral to quick peace would have been allowing you to gangbang Fronen to death quickly, so that you may then gangbang Fheuv'n to death quickly, and then either be stuck in peace if Enweil did not defend Fheuv'n, or you make up some new stupid excuse to violate your treaty with Fronen to gangbang Enweil's flank to bring down down quickly. This is your long-term plan to enjoyable wars? Gangbang everyone to death with overwhelming number of realms on the attack?

I thought it was pretty obvious that we couldn't have any other wars with that 5 city mastodon sitting there with itchy fingers. Fronen's hegemony needed to be broken, and yes I wanted that to happen as fast as possible. There's tons of things I want to do before the invasion starts again and I've seen too many wars interrupted before anything real could've been achieved to not want to work fast. I personally don't care how big Fronen is by the end of this war as long as Old Grehk has taken everything that we promised we would help them conquer at the start of the war and as long as they can't just reconquer everything they've lost in the next war. I've got a bunch of ideas for future wars, none of them include IVF... But if you do happen to get gangbanged (which I think will be without Thalmarkin), you should've thought of that possibility before you played the holier than thou card only to back out of it later and join Enweil in their war.

So yes, basically Fronen prolonged their oh so despicable gangbang by signing this treaty, even if Fronen's chances have increased and is standing in the way of new, more fun wars. Not that I find this war particularly boring, it may be 1 vs 4 but Fronen isn't such a bad opponent, it was a given that pretty much everything north of the river was unholdable, the south is more challenging. It could've been over and Fronen could've kicked Melhed's ass and conquered their namesake city if they had accepted the North's treaty... but so be it.

[Chenier]

Exactly my point. Lame beginning, lame ending. I saw this as Melhed's chance to redeem themselves, yet they've taken it as an opportunity to secure their title of "Lamest Realm of BM". Their decision to join against Fronen was a huge disappointment too. If they wanted to help Fronen, they should've grown a pair and joined them in the war, not declare war, fight a few skirmishes and then back out a few months later long before the war is over. Even just sending monetary aid would've been better. Even now, if they want to help Fronen, they should just attack the Northern Alliance.
Maybe Jyl actually is the price for switching sides, I hope so at least. Even though that wouldn't do their reputation a lot of good either.

I thought it was pretty obvious that we couldn't have any other wars with that 5 city mastodon sitting there with itchy fingers. Fronen's hegemony needed to be broken, and yes I wanted that to happen as fast as possible. There's tons of things I want to do before the invasion starts again and I've seen too many wars interrupted before anything real could've been achieved to not want to work fast. I personally don't care how big Fronen is by the end of this war as long as Old Grehk has taken everything that we promised we would help them conquer at the start of the war and as long as they can't just reconquer everything they've lost in the next war. I've got a bunch of ideas for future wars, none of them include IVF... But if you do happen to get gangbanged (which I think will be without Thalmarkin), you should've thought of that possibility before you played the holier than thou card only to back out of it later and join Enweil in their war.

So yes, basically Fronen prolonged their oh so despicable gangbang by signing this treaty, even if Fronen's chances have increased and is standing in the way of new, more fun wars. Not that I find this war particularly boring, it may be 1 vs 4 but Fronen isn't such a bad opponent, it was a given that pretty much everything north of the river was unholdable, the south is more challenging. It could've been over and Fronen could've kicked Melhed's ass and conquered their namesake city if they had accepted the North's treaty... but so be it.

Seriously? Just sign peace with Fronen, then! I'm sure Fronen will be more than happy to let you all fight each other as it comes help us against Riombara. Fronen isn't stopping you from doing anything, you are making it stop you. If you hadn't attacked it, it would have already broken into smaller realms, as a secession in Dyomoque was always the plan. Sure, maybe it would have fought Nothoi, but unless you honestly care about Nothoi that shouldn't have stopped you from doing anything else in the north.

If you think Melhed is stopping fun so much, just go and crush them. They don't have any friends, and Fronen has enough fronts to worry about as it is.

[Geronus]

hmm, to fight 4 and have peace with 1 or have peace with 4 and fight 1......

I say Fronen took the possible worst option for them. Fronen VS Melhed 1 on 1, my gold would be on Fronen.

Why the hell would we hand you four frigging Duchies on a silver platter just to win the dubious opportunity to fight Melhed to the death one on one to -MAYBE - get one back? You didn't even offer to help us. and I'm considerably less confident than you are. Vur Hagin isn't a rich city, and in any case Melhed has three of them, all bigger. They would have a huge economic advantage.

The terms the North is asking are excessive and ridiculous, and you cannot possibly be surprised that the Senate would oppose them. For starters, you're asking us for five regions, three of them cities. That's five Senators opposed right there, three of whom are Dukes with a fair amount of influence, plus some more who are just plain outraged that you're demanding that we turn over four fifths of the realm for basically nothing.

Edit: Consider letting us keep Wudenkin, and then we'll talk.

[Lorgan]

Seriously? Just sign peace with Fronen, then! I'm sure Fronen will be more than happy to let you all fight each other as it comes help us against Riombara.

Hahahaha

[Draco Tanos]

who are just plain outraged that you're demanding that we turn over four fifths of the realm for basically nothing.

That makes me smile, right there.  Warmongering Fronen's forgetting the troubles it has caused in the past, and doesn't understand why people are opposing it now.

[Sypher]

That makes me smile, right there.  Warmongering Fronen's forgetting the troubles it has caused in the past, and doesn't understand why people are opposing it now.

I've only had a character in Fronen since Mesh was destroyed so what you are referring to? I don't remember eastern Beluaterra politics from before the last invasion very well if that is what you are thinking of.

[Thunthorn]

Even if Melhed's motivations for actually joining the war against Fronen was mainly TMP we did join the war on a direct request from our so called allies Thalmarkin. We did so under the impression that we was somehow wanted in the conflict by the alliance.

The first thing that happened after we joined was betrayal as the alliance did its best to leave us out of any peacetalks and actively tried to leave us in a situation where we would be fighting Fronen alone as the rest of the alliance pulled out. There were even clauses in the peaceproposal that was actively prohibiting us from getting anything out from the war except for the odd battle.

We can see when we are not wanted in a war and no one should be surprised when we under these circumstances seek our own peace.

[Solari]

Even if Melhed's motivations for actually joining the war against Fronen was mainly TMP we did join the war on a direct request from our so called allies Thalmarkin. We did so under the impression that we was somehow wanted in the conflict by the alliance.

The first thing that happened after we joined was betrayal as the alliance did its best to leave us out of any peacetalks and actively tried to leave us in a situation where we would be fighting Fronen alone as the rest of the alliance pulled out. There were even clauses in the peaceproposal that was actively prohibiting us from getting anything out from the war except for the odd battle.

We can see when we are not wanted in a war and no one should be surprised when we under these circumstances seek our own peace.

Whaaat?  Melhed wasn't in the original declaration, so why would they be in the peace talks?  Your decision to enter the war wasn't presented as responding to any call of Thalmarkin.  You have elements in Melhed actively trying to start a war with Thalmarkin.  It all looks very suspicious.

[Thunthorn]

Whaaat?  Melhed wasn't in the original declaration, so why would they be in the peace talks?  Your decision to enter the war wasn't presented as responding to any call of Thalmarkin.  You have elements in Melhed actively trying to start a war with Thalmarkin.  It all looks very suspicious.

Probably because of the time it took for Melhed to make up its mind. But the issue that was debated in Melhed was always to respond to Thalmarkin's call for aid against Fronen, to respond to Fronen's call for aid against the alliance or stay out of it all. The whole affair started for Melhed with Thalmarkin asking us to join the war on their side or at least stay out of it.

While there are people who don't like Thalmarkin in Melhed they have been a clear minority as shown by the original voting and certainly has had no influence in this decision. There are certainly no plans to declare war on Thalmarkin so the Thalmarkians can sleep well at night.

Clauses in the peace proposal like:

3- Fronen will hold claim over, and only over, the following regions, giving up on the claims of any other regions that are not mentioned bellow :

Vur Hagin
Jyl
Marpii
Qrelg
Xhahgus
Sheja
Vale
Tey Gren

and

8- The Northern alliance will help Fronen and ensure that the realm can keep and hold the regions their claim is granted by this agreement.

will certainly make Melhed consider more carefully whom to trust in the future though.

[Chenier]

That little zealot realm might have been a little arrogant, but it always meant the best for you! These people you joined are eeeevil! 

[Chenier]

Report from Guillaume Chénier
Message sent to the Rulers of Beluaterra (8 recipients)
Letter from Jethro Snow (2 days, 5 hours ago)
Message sent to the Rulers of Beluaterra (7 recipients)
How amazing that you know we are about to torture someone in our dungeons even though it is not allowed. Last week we had a discussion in the ruling council about torture and torture of any prisoner was again voted against. So our policy is not to torture and last week that policy was voted to continue. The question becomes, who is giving you false information?

Sir Jethro Snow
High Chancellor of Riombara

You dare lie to my face? You claimed that your policy was not to torture, telling that my reports that our nobles would be tortured was "false information".

And what is the first thing I receive come sunset? You have begun torturing our nobles!

Letter from a foreign dungeon (just in)
Noble Miroslav, currently in prison in Riombara, has sent a letter:

Cousin..
Te dogs. Buring rods. Hve trouble seeing. The will svffer for thjs.

Tortured (35 minutes ago)
While you are sitting in your cell in Riombara, one night the cell doors open and Cyrilos Vellos, Great Chamberlain of Riombara, Duke of Fwuvoghor enters together with his torturer. Dragging you off, they make your nightmares come true.
As you regain consciousness the next morning, you feel your body in the worst possible way. You remember little of the night and are grateful for that.
Roleplaying notice: Torture is one of the worst things that can happen to a human being. Cyrilos should be very high on your black list for this. But we will leave it to you whether or not to roleplay that.

We had laws regulating what kind of looting was allowed, our plan was always to target your economy, not your people. However, Riombara has proven themselves to be dogs once again. Once again, Riombaran dungeons are the initiators of violence, having scrapped a working prisoner agreement with Enweil in the last age when first convenient, and now initiating the vilest tortures upon the nobles of Fheuv'n. You always pass yourself off as a sheep, but behind this masquarade is a bloodthirsty fox. In the last age, you declared war on Enweil, and then passed yourselves off as the poor victims needing help from the evil imperialists. You broke a prisoner agreement, executing a royal, and then whined to the world that your infiltrators were being punished (of which you were warned, but decided not to tell your own infiltrators as you sent them to the butcher). In the invasion, you were the ones who refused an alliance against the monsters before saying how Enweil were bad people for not having come to your help. In this age, you again were the ones to declare war on Enweil, without provocation, and in full knowledge that Enweil was still not going to accept any form of prisoner agreement from a dishonorable realm such as yours.

We have had enough of having you foxes in the coop. The looting restrictions will be lifted. Your people will suffer from your crimes against the Fheuv'n nobles. Your towns will be razed, and those we don't bring back as slaves will all burn in them.

Your tongues are forked, and nothing but poison comes out of your mouths. You claim that you voted against torture, and that this was false information, but you reserve yourself the right to change your mind upon a whim.

Every Riombaran that falls in our dungeons is to be tortured three times for every Fheuv'n noble tortured.

Perhaps Beluaterra will once again be known as a continent where honor reigns, once you vile creates are burnt at the stakes.

Guillaume Chénier
Hetman of Imperskoe Viys'ko iz Fheuv'na, Senator of Iato, Ambassador of Imperskoe Viys'ko iz Fheuv'na

I'm sad that one can only declare hatred on a single realm. I regret declaring it on Sint, now, totally would have wanted to declare it on Riombara isntead! At least we can reach Rio...