BattleMaster Community
BattleMaster => Locals => Beluaterra => Topic started by: Indirik on January 08, 2013, 04:12:43 PM
-
So... this will be interesting. Duke Victus allows his temper to overshadow his restraint, and secedes the duchy of Heem to form Caelum prior to the realm being ready. We have extremely low population (<20% production in all but one region), only one RC (a crappy archer center in Watto), a single smithy in Heen that is rarely open, and no other infrastructure at all. Can we even survive?
Given that this realm was supposed to allow for everyone to practice their religion freely, it is ironic that it is formed through religious conflict and tension.
-
Hopefully the entire Northern Alliance (Old Grehk, Nothoi, Sint, Thalmarkin) falls apart over this and starts to fight! Somehow though I hardly believe that will happen.
-
Enweil survived with far less.
You should be able to as well...
-
Our capital has also been under siege by a force of undead for the past several days. I don't know if we have the strength to clear them out. :-\
-
Our capital has also been under siege by a force of undead for the past several days. I don't know if we have the strength to clear them out. :-\
You could always call Melhed to help.
Where rogue eradication pros braw
-
Our capital has also been under siege by a force of undead for the past several days. I don't know if we have the strength to clear them out. :-\
No neighbors?
Just bash at them again and again, and you'll end up gettin' em.
-
With what soldiers? Remember the whole "no RCs thing"?
-
With what soldiers? Remember the whole "no RCs thing"?
Build some?
And there aren't "no RCs". There is one RC. Draft? Enlarge it? Build more?
-
Enweil survived with far less.
So... no RC?
-
Who needs RCs when the fighting-plan consist in not fighting?
-
Who needs RCs when the fighting-plan consist in not fighting?
Zing
-
your !@#$ed...
-
Was it rushed? Absolutely.
See, Sint was attempting to force their daimon-worshiping religion on the realm, its nobles demanding priests from other faiths be executed if they preach in our regions (and as we are a multi-religion realm, that wouldn't go over too well), they were attempting to force their laws on us, etc. Indirik was one of those attempting to push for all of that, btw.
When I said we would instead realign to Nothoi until we were ready, their leader threw a fit ("SINT IS THE FOUNDING FATHER!!!" Misconstruing the entire treaty involved), as did Indirik who removed her region from the Duchy of Heen because "The treaty says nothing about joining Nothoi!"
...and yet the treaty specifically mentions the religious freedoms of our nobles.
*shrug* We'll make due with actual allies and Sint can continue sitting to our north wondering why everyone hates them. They have something like... Three or four characters in the entire realm who grasp the political realities of the continent. The rest don't even seem to grasp that Sint is so disliked.
-
Yes, yes. Daimon lovers Sint. They must repent!
-
Yes, yes. Daimon lovers Sint. They must repent!
ITT we watch Fleugs troll the northern realms into a self-destructive fight while he bides time, rebuilds Rio, and conquers BT.
-
See, Sint was attempting to force their daimon-worshiping religion on the realm, its nobles demanding priests from other faiths be executed if they preach in our regions (and as we are a multi-religion realm, that wouldn't go over too well), they were attempting to force their laws on us, etc. Indirik was one of those attempting to push for all of that, btw.
Oh baloney. You'll never find any message from Ralina even implying that such should be the case, let alone pushing for it to happen. Ralina was merely asserting the right for Hemaist priests to preach in regions belonging to a theocracy of Hemaism. Victus was freely preaching the Church of Humanity throughout all the lands that would be part of the new colony, and threatened Sint with diplomatic consequences if a priest of Hemaism preached in those same regions.
Only one fanatic said that foreign priests should be beheaded, and no one listened to him.
When I said we would instead realign to Nothoi until we were ready, their leader threw a fit ("SINT IS THE FOUNDING FATHER!!!" Misconstruing the entire treaty involved), as did Indirik who removed her region from the Duchy of Heen because "The treaty says nothing about joining Nothoi!"
If you are going to use quotes, please make sure you accurately, and completely quote what was said:
"I do not desire to join the realm of Nothoi. Such was never the plan for the new colony, or the regions that would be part of the new colony. I, and Watersdown, will stay in Sint until the new realm is formed. At that time, I will join the new realm as is my duty." And, as promised, Watersdown joined the realm as soon as it was founded.
I will admit that Cyprian knows little about the treaty, or what it says. As a new Pontifex who was largely uninvolved in pretty much anything to do with the realm, he is ignorant of quite a few things that previous rulers already knew.
Edit: Also, here is what Cyprian really said:
"Let's be frank. Whatever you will try to remove Sint infruence in south this is impossible, Lord Victus. We are the founding fathers of the new realm.
Let's calm ourself and speak."
Note the complete lack of ALLCAPS, and the absence of any exclamation points.
...and yet the treaty specifically mentions the religious freedoms of our nobles.
Of course. And no one has yet attempted to force any specific religion on any noble.
-
So... no RC?
No capital.
No city.
-
Apparently Nothoi has pledged some forces to help defend Caelum (anyone know how to pronounce that, by the way?) so we shouldn't be *too* bad off for now. Still, we're off to a wonderfully rocky start. Maybe within the next few weeks, we'll even have to spare gold to found our first army!
-
Apparently Nothoi has pledged some forces to help defend Caelum (anyone know how to pronounce that, by the way?) so we shouldn't be *too* bad off for now. Still, we're off to a wonderfully rocky start. Maybe within the next few weeks, we'll even have to spare gold to found our first army!
Like one would pronounce Gaelic?
-
That's what I figured. But you never know.
-
[k'aɪlˌəm] or [k'aɪˌlʌm] would be my phonetically written guess.
-
Apparently Nothoi has pledged some forces to help defend Caelum (anyone know how to pronounce that, by the way?) so we shouldn't be *too* bad off for now. Still, we're off to a wonderfully rocky start. Maybe within the next few weeks, we'll even have to spare gold to found our first army!
Nothoi?
They cant even take care of them selves!
A bit weird for them to go help Cealum if they depend on foreign military aid them selves...
-
your !@#$ed...
^^
-
Our very first RC: Special Forces. 95 Training, 65 Weapons, 90 Armor, Range 2
-
Such heavy SF.. With range.. But with lack population, no function now.
-
True, but if our luck keeps up, we'll have RCs that no one can beat. >.>
-
Anyway, what diplomatic relation between fronen and caelum? Neutral ?
-
That's what it is currently. They've not contacted my character about anything.
If they want to, send Richard so the lazy bugger has to respond to Victus!
-
Such poor range, though...
-
Not to mention that high armour is detrimental for a ranged unit, since it increases the unit's price without adding much to it's effectiveness.
-
And ridiculously high training, so they will be expensive to hire and train.
-
And ridiculously high training, so they will be expensive to hire and train.
Yeah, such high training sucks. Much better to be able to improve cohesion and training at the same time.
-
Erp... I meant "expensive to hire and pay"...
-
And lower recruitment rates.
Not an optimal RC.
-
True, but one should always look towards the future and not just the present. Otherwise all we would see are barren, goldless deserts!
-
geuss whos a local lord in the new realm? King Treamlin the coward.
Just saying for those who still want him dead.
-
And captured assassins will be executed.
Gotta love a hangin' judge as ruler.
Then again, rather be serving with Traemlin "the coward" than Davis the Idiot.
-
Then again, rather be serving with Traemlin "the coward" than Davis the Idiot.
Thats another quistion :P
-
geuss whos a local lord in the new realm? King Treamlin the coward.
Just saying for those who still want him dead.
I do read the forums, you know.
-
I do read the forums, you know.
I'm not familiar with WHY Traemlin is so reviled, but it's a rare occasion when anyone is chased out of Thalmarkin, and MAN was he chased out fast.
-
You really haven't been paying attention, have you, solari? :P
Traemlin wasn't chased out. It was just darn dunnera people following him. He won the duel against Belruel and then when Tiberius challenged him I remember a pretty irritated reaction towards Tiberius and he did not accept that one.
The reason he left, afaik, is to take up one of Thal's lordships in the colony. Not exactly chased out and look at the region he got...
-
Actually, he took up one of OG's lordships (same with Alaron. Both Thalmarkins were chosen by OG). He was Thalmarkin's choice for General though.
-
The reason he left, afaik, is to take up one of Thal's lordships in the colony. Not exactly chased out and look at the region he got...
Yeah, one of the choice regions, for sure. Rates the title of Margrave, even. Pretty impressive for a rural.
-
Thalmarkin accepted him just as we accept close to anyone who swears us loyalty. Fingolfin (and I think rest of Thalmarkin) has decided that what matters in Thalmarkin is what you do in Thalmarkin, or for Thalmarkin. What your past deeds were or where you come from couldnt bother him less (except for a few cases, most of which has been Thalmarkin-related :p ). We do have some problems with traitors of humanity though (where Annaej became a little problem since I accepted her and defended her without really knowing what she did in the south. Still not entirely sure, but at least that problem solved itself :) )...
For the colony there has been hell to find cadidates indeed... OG stole the only two willing to go there, so now I have been forced to search the whole world for candidates. Seems Thal is just too awesome, combined with making a too good deal for Thal in the colony. :p
-
And now a Kuriga joins the realm. Oh my.
-
I didn't know that my family was well-known enough to get that response...
Is this a bad thing?
-
Is this a bad thing?
It's the best compliment there is!
-
I guess... >->
-
It's a compliment of sorts - I suspect now that this realm is going to be very interesting indeed with all these various personalities. Some of which will easily clash.
But if you don't mind me asking - what's the appeal of coming to Caelum?
-
small new realm.
-
It's a compliment of sorts - I suspect now that this realm is going to be very interesting indeed with all these various personalities. Some of which will easily clash.
But if you don't mind me asking - what's the appeal of coming to Caelum?
Location Location Location.
-
Because it's in striking distance of THE BIG EVIL DAIMON-WORSHIPPING SINT!?!??!???
-
Because it's in striking distance of THE BIG EVIL DAIMON-WORSHIPPING SINT!?!??!???
Wrong Atlas dearie ??? ;D
-
Wrong Atlas dearie ??? ;D
Nah, I don't think so.
-
*Ponders if Guillaume will consider joining to be in striking distance of Sint* ;)
-
Yeah, just what we need. That way the entire north can gang together and wipe us out.
-
Thalmarkin accepted him just as we accept close to anyone who swears us loyalty. Fingolfin (and I think rest of Thalmarkin) has decided that what matters in Thalmarkin is what you do in Thalmarkin, or for Thalmarkin. What your past deeds were or where you come from couldnt bother him less (except for a few cases, most of which has been Thalmarkin-related :p ). We do have some problems with traitors of humanity though (where Annaej became a little problem since I accepted her and defended her without really knowing what she did in the south. Still not entirely sure, but at least that problem solved itself :) )...
Does that mean I can go try to stab people and, if I get caught, swear fealty? I mean, I'm just looking for people to poke with a shiny isosceles triangle mounted on a T. (I'm calling it a geometry experiment.)
-
You, like Chenier, would likely be welcomed to Caelum if we were able to properly defend ourselves... Once we're recovered.
Well, it'd depend who you stabbed.
-
Does that mean I can go try to stab people and, if I get caught, swear fealty? I mean, I'm just looking for people to poke with a shiny isosceles triangle mounted on a T. (I'm calling it a geometry experiment.)
That should depend on who you try to stabb :)
If its Enweilians or Melite people... I wouldnt see a problem with welcoming you! If it would be Thalmarkians or Grehkians or something like that, it could be less easy i suppose.
-
Striking distance of Sint, eh...?
Maybe one day.
-
Does that mean I can go try to stab people and, if I get caught, swear fealty? I mean, I'm just looking for people to poke with a shiny isosceles triangle mounted on a T. (I'm calling it a geometry experiment.)
You already tried once. Gosh :P
-
Well, I succeeded on an Enweilian recently (a nice 600 gold bounty, completely undetected), but I meant Thalmarkin, due to that whole "forgiveness" deal. And Traemlin doesn't count anymore, he's not in Thalmarkin now. :( I am tempted to try again now that you're closer, though.
-
I would say stabbing Thalmarkians (if thats what you mean) would be quite cloesly linked to "what counts in Thalmarkin is what you do in Thalmarkin". There is "forgiveness" (or rather, ignorance) to what people have done on other continents, but we would certainly not forgive/ignore stabbing our nobles... That is after all something you do in Thalmarkin.
-
Mind you, we are somewhat based on Rome. So if your barbarian hide wants to face our justice it will let us decode if we want to incorporate crucifixions into our execution methods.
-
I would say stabbing Thalmarkians (if thats what you mean) would be quite cloesly linked to "what counts in Thalmarkin is what you do in Thalmarkin". There is "forgiveness" (or rather, ignorance) to what people have done on other continents, but we would certainly not forgive/ignore stabbing our nobles... That is after all something you do in Thalmarkin.
Unless you're actually from Thalmarkin. Then we might be more lenient depending on your reason. Bounty hunting our own nobles probably wouldn't be appreciated. :P
-
Well, as I said, Traemlin is no longer in Thalmarkin, so he's fair game now, right?
Also, it's not barbarian, it's Viking. With a capital V. :P
-
As I said: barbarian. Heathen. :P
-
Well, I succeeded on an Enweilian recently (a nice 600 gold bounty, completely undetected), but I meant Thalmarkin, due to that whole "forgiveness" deal. And Traemlin doesn't count anymore, he's not in Thalmarkin now. :( I am tempted to try again now that you're closer, though.
"undetected", yea. As if the whole realm didn't know what you were doing...
You did avoid capture, however.
-
My bad, I meant in the actual attempt (I'm used to being identified at the very least). I couldn't find you for your bounty, though. Took me a while to find Gabriella, even.
-
You seemed to stay in North-East Enweil, I believe, which doesn't tend to have much traffic from anyone as that's not one of the main rogue spawn zones. Most of the time I was in Riombara, the rest I was in Southern Enweil.
-
You must've been in Rio. I did a tour of all of Enweil, but I never visited a region I could scout and didn't have regions beyond. :)
-
I also sailed some to come back, too.
-
Blast! I keep forgetting about the seas!
-
Eirikr should become the continent's premier sailor!
-
Does it work any differently than normal travel without a unit? Kuvio's not above anything.
-
Does it work any differently than normal travel without a unit? Kuvio's not above anything.
You travel 12 hours a turn; no next destination, delay travel, or canceling traveling and you use 20% provisions a day. Also you pay to embark and you will have full hours most the time but you have nothing to use them on.
-
Provisions only matter if you have a unit, though.
-
Provisions only matter if you have a unit, though.
Yes, I forgot that he mentioned he was unitless.
-
Provisions only matter if you have a unit, though.
BAM! The question I was going to ask!
First murderous pirate in BM? Sounds good to me! Now to advertise...
-
As I suspected, with this mix of people, the realm could not possibly be boring. :P
I wonder if we'll have a Swordfell-style meltdown.
-
I certainly hope not. Though I do wonder if Edmundus will start to act like a tyrant now there are protests and threats of a duel against him.
-
He already has Victus's consent to banish the disloyal nobles if he deems it necessary.
It's a shame, I was looking forward to playing with Vellos a bit. Indirik I knew would need to be booted eventually.
-
You call *this* disloyal? Pfft...
-
Thalmarkin accepted him just as we accept close to anyone who swears us loyalty. Fingolfin (and I think rest of Thalmarkin) has decided that what matters in Thalmarkin is what you do in Thalmarkin, or for Thalmarkin. What your past deeds were or where you come from couldnt bother him less (except for a few cases, most of which has been Thalmarkin-related :p ). We do have some problems with traitors of humanity though (where Annaej became a little problem since I accepted her and defended her without really knowing what she did in the south. Still not entirely sure, but at least that problem solved itself :) )...
For the colony there has been hell to find cadidates indeed... OG stole the only two willing to go there, so now I have been forced to search the whole world for candidates. Seems Thal is just too awesome, combined with making a too good deal for Thal in the colony. :p
I thought this post might suddenly be relevant again. ;)
Oh hi Tanos! ;D
-
Henzo is quiet during all of this. What could he be up to?
-
I thought this post might suddenly be relevant again. ;)
Oh hi Tanos! ;D
You mean the guy who already tried to stab Thalmarkin nobles? Yeah, that'd go over real well. Especially if he has to travel through OG to get there. And he best hope he doesn't get captured by us. As I've said before: We'll execute assassins.
-
Nah, I'm just saying in general, if you're gonna throw out people... Thalmarkin is just around the corner. It's the one with the crappier badlands. :)
Anyway, what's going on, still Hemaism vs CoH?
-
Nope. Created three duchies, one to give as a reward to whatever noble proves themself the best (as well as historical reasons) in battle and in service to the realm. Apparently it's all due to religious reasons! Even though one lord is CoH, another pagan, and the third is Daishi...
Basically Velos, Strife, and Indirik complaining for the sake of complaining. :P
-
Basically Velos, Strife, and Indirik complaining for the sake of complaining. :P
Bull!@#$.
You just woefully misunderstand my character. He literally doesn't even know the other characters.
He's a bastard who was systematically hunted by his family across a continent and driven into hiding, then fought his way back into the nobility through monsters and undead. As a nobleman he had the pleasure of getting his ass handed to him in a war, then having his career prospects stymied by his family's meddling's again. So he fled to a new realm in Beluaterra where his family had no connections.
A person whose entire life's preoccupation is demonstrating that he is noble, honorable, and worthy of dignity– and you're surprised he pitched a fit when your character basically said, "Yeah, treaties and agreements don't matter because I'm the Grand Prince lolololol!" and then a judge (Onamont has few pleasant feelings toward judges, given his time spent as an adventurer) comes up and calls him twice an oathbreaker because he refused to accept that agreements didn't matter?
Psh, yeah. He's complaining just to complain.
It's frustrating for me because I really wanted to play in a different group of players– unfortunately it looks like I found a group of players that really dislikes dissent.
-
Victus violated the treaty by creating an extra duchy, and holding it himself. Then when asked why, he said something about "easier administration and defense", then said that the "damnable treaty" that formed the realm was poorly written, had lots of spelling errors, and didn't apply to us, because we aren't signatories to it. The judge told everyone to calm down and discuss things reasonably and not start accusing people of treason, then proceeded to call everyone who didn't agree with the new duchy situation an oathbreaker, specifically Onamont Vellos. Onamont demanded an apology, then the judge did it again. Onamont demanded a duel. The judge wrote a smarmy letter about how realm law stated that you had to get the judge's permission to issue a duel challenge, so in order to challenge him to a duel you had to first ask him for permission to challenge him before you could challenge him. So neener neener! Then he proceeded to fine both Ralina (for no good reason) and Onamont (for issuing a duel, which Onamont has not done) fines, despite the fact that neither of us have broken any realm laws.
Victus keeps claiming that the treaty means nothing and we don't have to follow it, since we didn't sign it, despite the fact that his only mandate to rule is derived directly from the treaty itself. Which he despises. There have been calls for the entire government to step down and hold new elections.
-
Oh, and the Duke of Tahgalez has expelled Onamont from his estate.
Yee-haw.
-
Victus violated the treaty by creating an extra duchy, and holding it himself. Then when asked why, he said something about "easier administration and defense", then said that the "damnable treaty" that formed the realm was poorly written, had lots of spelling errors, and didn't apply to us, because we aren't signatories to it. The judge told everyone to calm down and discuss things reasonably and not start accusing people of treason, then proceeded to call everyone who didn't agree with the new duchy situation an oathbreaker, specifically Onamont Vellos. Onamont demanded an apology, then the judge did it again. Onamont demanded a duel. The judge wrote a smarmy letter about how realm law stated that you had to get the judge's permission to issue a duel challenge, so in order to challenge him to a duel you had to first ask him for permission to challenge him before you could challenge him. So neener neener! Then he proceeded to fine both Ralina (for no good reason) and Onamont (for issuing a duel, which Onamont has not done) fines, despite the fact that neither of us have broken any realm laws.
Victus keeps claiming that the treaty means nothing and we don't have to follow it, since we didn't sign it, despite the fact that his only mandate to rule is derived directly from the treaty itself. Which he despises. There have been calls for the entire government to step down and hold new elections.
Hmm, I like the description. And sounds similar to Swordfell's meltdown except that nothing is quite extreme enough IMO to quite warrant protests but sounds like it will. Now I just need to decide if I want to pause my advy and create a new noble in like Arcaea for the waiting period or just emigrate my Ambassador noble.
-
Ralina and Onamont have already protested following the judge's "you have to get my permission to duel me before you can challenge me" letter. That's why the judge fined both of us.
-
Ralina and Onamont have already protested following the judge's "you have to get my permission to duel me before you can challenge me" letter. That's why the judge fined both of us.
Yeah, fining Ralina for dueling was odd, as she hasn't even tried to duel.
-
Yeah, fining Ralina for dueling was odd, as she hasn't even tried to duel.
mmm... I think she encouraged Onamont about his 'illegal' duel. Isn't this enough? ;D
-
In seven years of play, this is the first time *ever* that one of my characters has been fined. Figures it would be for something so capricious and arbitrary.
But, hey, at leeast we now know the value of the judge's honor: 25 gold! :P
-
mmm... I think she encouraged Onamont about his 'illegal' duel. Isn't this enough? ;D
Oh it totally makes sense if we assume that the leadership of Caelum is concerned with nothing more than fortifying absolute power and then turning on Sint as soon as they are able. But that would be...
Oh.... oh wait.
-
In seven years of play, this is the first time *ever* that one of my characters has been fined. Figures it would be for something so capricious and arbitrary.
But, hey, at leeast we now know the value of the judge's honor: 25 gold! :P
Heh, me too actually. Never been fined before.
-
He he he... does that mean we've been playing right or wrong?
-
The question is, The judges has been playing right?... Someone has used the fines before now?
-
Out of curiosity, who do you play, Poliorketes?
-
You don't know?... or even suspect? 8)
-
Are you the evil justiciar who must die on the point of my sword in order that the natural order of justice in the world may be restored?
-
Bingo!!! I'm the evil Justicarius!!! 8)
-
Well.
I'll see you after the turn change, good sir.
-
But natural order of justice in the world?... I'm the justice, and the justice is me! for sure I'm not good nor sir!!! ::)
-
Justice is the name of Onamont's sword. Literally.
-
Can I ask why Riombara's envoy was made banker?
-
You are the Justiciar, guardian of law. That has nothing to do with Justice. :)
-
Because Henry is an apostate and it makes him cry!
Or more likely because the peasants were growing restless and a banker needed to be appointed and she is willing to serve at the will of the Grand Prince. Strangely enough, they were fine without a judge being appointed.
As for Sint... While OOC I wouldn't mind taking them out with the allied north, IC Victus only views it as a potential future. As equal in potential as war with Nothoi. Neither he would necessarily want, but none of which he is willing to rule out as a possibility. He likes being prepared.
-
Because Henry is an apostate and it makes him cry!
Or more likely because the peasants were growing restless and a banker needed to be appointed and she is willing to serve at the will of the Grand Prince. Strangely enough, they were fine without a judge being appointed.
Tsumiki and Henry are best friends, and probably set to marry one another sometime in the future. If Henry's crying, he's crying tears of joy.
Don't worry, I'll send help her way if she needs any. Sabotage your economy in the process... maybe.
-
Her sights are set that low, eh? :P
-
Just below the belt 8)
-
Oh... So out of sympathy. :P
-
Sounds like someone should place some bounties and look the other way if I'm caught...
I'll join Thalmarkin if I get banned from Sint. :P
-
Noble Leaves the Realm (2 hours, 22 minutes ago)
message to all nobles of Fronen
Superior Thunder Strike has left your realm and joined the realm of Caelum instead.
So Caelum best enough to let player unpause one noble and travel to land of sand?
-
Sounds like someone should place some bounties and look the other way if I'm caught...
I'll join Thalmarkin if I get banned from Sint. :P
Hey, you could join us. Go stab some zombies in the face.
I'm pondering trying to figure out an appropriate mythological monster to 'type' our outbreaks after. Desert-dwelling naga/snakemen?
Noble Leaves the Realm (2 hours, 22 minutes ago)
message to all nobles of Fronen
Superior Thunder Strike has left your realm and joined the realm of Caelum instead.
So Caelum best enough to let player unpause one noble and travel to land of sand?
Yes. Yes we are. So need more nobles though!
-
You are the Justiciar, guardian of law. That has nothing to do with Justice. :)
Oh Dear! They want to kill him, but they can't say his position correctly! it's Justicarius! ::)
And He is the LAW! He is the justice in Earth! He is the hand of the God ... mmm... what God?... He is... animist? Well, no Gods then... :P
-
Noble Leaves the Realm (2 hours, 22 minutes ago)
message to all nobles of Fronen
Superior Thunder Strike has left your realm and joined the realm of Caelum instead.
So Caelum best enough to let player unpause one noble and travel to land of sand?
That's seriously his name...?
-
It is.
And this appointment is going to enrage Alaron after a Thunder Strike Judge banned him from Astrum back on Dwilight.
Edit: On the topic of dissent? I enjoy dissent when it has a purpose. I don't like it when it's "just because" - seeing as this situation in the realm is (in my eyes) the former rather than the latter, I'm enjoying reading it so far.
-
It does indeed have a purpose, at least for my part. I generally dislike trouble for trouble's sake. I never cause trouble without a good reason.
-
Hey, you could join us. Go stab some zombies in the face.
Join Caelum after stabbing Caelum's troublesome nobles in the face? I was just offering to solve some political problems in Caelum... If my buyers clear me and let me take refuge in Caelum after doing so, it's cool with me... I just thought Thalmarkin would be easier since I wouldn't be sharing a realm with the people I tried to stab.
I also don't do much of the zombie stabbing... A unit tends to get in the way of passing through relatively undetected.
To be more relevant to the actual discussion, though, it seems to me like disregarding that treaty so soon isn't very cool. I got to hear the work put into that treaty (as I never did get punished for that attempt on Traemlin in Thalmarkin) and it seemed like there was a great number of compromises made to make everyone accept it. Maybe after the realm got off the ground, but right now? As an outsider to the whole thing, I'm looking at the time bomb next to Sint and wondering how the new beaches in Rio are.
-
That's seriously his name...?
Yes. I'm hoping I can OOCly convince him to get it changed.
And this appointment is going to enrage Alaron after a Thunder Strike Judge banned him from Astrum back on Dwilight.
Perhaps Alaron should bring his concerns to Victus? As Alaron's priest and ultimate liege-lord.
It does indeed have a purpose, at least for my part. I generally dislike trouble for trouble's sake. I never cause trouble without a good reason.
...right.
Join Caelum after stabbing Caelum's troublesome nobles in the face? I was just offering to solve some political problems in Caelum... If my buyers clear me and let me take refuge in Caelum after doing so, it's cool with me... I just thought Thalmarkin would be easier since I wouldn't be sharing a realm with the people I tried to stab.
Depends which nobles you stab. >.>
Or you could come become our enforcer of the realm's justice. No, not the judge. The headsman.
I also don't do much of the zombie stabbing... A unit tends to get in the way of passing through relatively undetected.
Which is a shame. You'd think being a renowned swordsman skilled with stealth would allow you to go all ninja, stabbing hundreds of zombies in the face.
To be more relevant to the actual discussion, though, it seems to me like disregarding that treaty so soon isn't very cool. I got to hear the work put into that treaty (as I never did get punished for that attempt on Traemlin in Thalmarkin) and it seemed like there was a great number of compromises made to make everyone accept it. Maybe after the realm got off the ground, but right now? As an outsider to the whole thing, I'm looking at the time bomb next to Sint and wondering how the new beaches in Rio are.
...first time the name of Riombara actually made sense in my mind. lol
-
Join Caelum after stabbing Caelum's troublesome nobles in the face? I was just offering to solve some political problems in Caelum... If my buyers clear me and let me take refuge in Caelum after doing so, it's cool with me... I just thought Thalmarkin would be easier since I wouldn't be sharing a realm with the people I tried to stab.
I also don't do much of the zombie stabbing... A unit tends to get in the way of passing through relatively undetected.
To be more relevant to the actual discussion, though, it seems to me like disregarding that treaty so soon isn't very cool. I got to hear the work put into that treaty (as I never did get punished for that attempt on Traemlin in Thalmarkin) and it seemed like there was a great number of compromises made to make everyone accept it. Maybe after the realm got off the ground, but right now? As an outsider to the whole thing, I'm looking at the time bomb next to Sint and wondering how the new beaches in Rio are.
The reason you werent punished was that Sint's ruler at the time ignored my letters (and I think later autopaused/lost rulership for inactivity), and I didnt bother to pursue it since Traemlin had already went away and didnt press the matter.
And also, you kinda owe Thalmarkin to come now that you have been so gracefully silently pardond! Shall try to find good targets for you in due time... :)
-
Victus violated the treaty by creating an extra duchy, and holding it himself. Then when asked why, he said something about "easier administration and defense", then said that the "damnable treaty" that formed the realm was poorly written, had lots of spelling errors, and didn't apply to us, because we aren't signatories to it. The judge told everyone to calm down and discuss things reasonably and not start accusing people of treason, then proceeded to call everyone who didn't agree with the new duchy situation an oathbreaker, specifically Onamont Vellos. Onamont demanded an apology, then the judge did it again. Onamont demanded a duel. The judge wrote a smarmy letter about how realm law stated that you had to get the judge's permission to issue a duel challenge, so in order to challenge him to a duel you had to first ask him for permission to challenge him before you could challenge him. So neener neener! Then he proceeded to fine both Ralina (for no good reason) and Onamont (for issuing a duel, which Onamont has not done) fines, despite the fact that neither of us have broken any realm laws.
Victus keeps claiming that the treaty means nothing and we don't have to follow it, since we didn't sign it, despite the fact that his only mandate to rule is derived directly from the treaty itself. Which he despises. There have been calls for the entire government to step down and hold new elections.
Since my character was apart of making the treaty Im going to comment. Can you explain to me how Victus has violated the treaty when It was never specified in it that the realm could not make more duchies or that they had to restrict themselves to 2 duchies? As far as I am concerned, the treaty was a general guideline for how we wanted the realm to be forged and to ensure the nobles that the various realms who participated in its creation selected, were given the appointments, such as the realm council members, Dukes and region lords. As far as I am aware, that has been followed through by Victus so I fail to see how the treaty has been grossly violated.
-
The reason you werent punished was that Sint's ruler at the time ignored my letters (and I think later autopaused/lost rulership for inactivity), and I didnt bother to pursue it since Traemlin had already went away and didnt press the matter.
And also, you kinda owe Thalmarkin to come now that you have been so gracefully silently pardond! Shall try to find good targets for you in due time... :)
Yeah, I'm not actually satisfied with how it turned out, either. IC, of course, Kuvio is all grins. OOC, I think it's a total cop out... Maybe I should send a letter to Thalmarkin?
Depends which nobles you stab. >.>
Or you could come become our enforcer of the realm's justice. No, not the judge. The headsman.
Which is a shame. You'd think being a renowned swordsman skilled with stealth would allow you to go all ninja, stabbing hundreds of zombies in the face.
Sounds good to me! Point me in the right direction! :P I work cheap, too. I'm looking for training more than anything. (60-65%! According to the fame stats, I'm also a better infiltrator than 84% of Beluaterra.)
I would love an option to "murder" zombies in addition to militia. That would be really, really useful, but it'd overpower Infils even more... Though we'd have something to do during peace.
-
Yeah. Do what Advies do, but AFTER the hordes are formed? lol
If you could swipe relics/items from them too, that'd be even more awesome. Certainly would make infies seem more like master thieves, spies, and assassins.
-
Precisely! I mean, we can do what advies do to monsters and undead to militia... I'd bet the militia are more attentive than the undead, at least. There's so much awesome to be had! Maybe Infils can smuggle people as well? Make them the ultimate illegitimate business partners! We should also be able to sell fake Wootz items.
"Oi, c'mere... Ye look like a strappin' fancy noble... 'ow's about a real Wootz sundial- major discount! Only the finest goods 'ere. Lemme open me cloak and show ye me fine wares. All sales final, mind you."
-
In other news:
Onamont is getting impatient and will get himself ignominiously banned here shortly if Victus doesn't reply to him faster.
Just sayin'.
-
Since my character was apart of making the treaty Im going to comment. Can you explain to me how Victus has violated the treaty when It was never specified in it that the realm could not make more duchies or that they had to restrict themselves to 2 duchies? As far as I am concerned, the treaty was a general guideline for how we wanted the realm to be forged and to ensure the nobles that the various realms who participated in its creation selected, were given the appointments, such as the realm council members, Dukes and region lords. As far as I am aware, that has been followed through by Victus so I fail to see how the treaty has been grossly violated.
Yes. This was all made as guideline, as I recall, the region organization matter came up during one of the drafts and this was said: it was all a guideline, we had not way to know how would be the best organization for the realm, the only thing I think was "mandatory" was the two duchies.
Now on other character point of view(less OOC), it is odd to see Victus dismiss the treaty using the arguments he has used that he didn´t signed it or swore anything and yet became the ruler by it. As if he created all by himself using magic.
-
And that technically Thalmarkin broke the treaty by not naming four lords? :P
Actually, that's his reasoning for not being an oathbreaker. He swore no oath and signed no documents. The moment Caelum was sovereign, it no longer legally applies. It'd be like getting Sint, Nothoi, OG, and Fronen/Melhed to write a treaty demanding that Thalmarkin has four duchies composed of X regions each.
However, as he's repeatedly said, he's complied with the spirit of the treaty (as poorly written as it is). Neither of the Dukes mind the changes he made. It's honestly just Vellos, Indirik (who complains about everything), and Finan (the Lord of Kraake who sees theocracies being formed everywhere) that are complaining.
And Vellos, I'll get to you some time during the night. My attention's being bounced around a bit.
-
To start with, Sint was told in no. Uncertain terms that if it didn't agree to the formation of a combined realm, or violated the treaty, that it would result in a combined war against Sint. Victus tossed around threats while he was in Sint that if Sint didn't comply with the treaty (specifically the religious aspect) that there would be diplomatic repercussions against Sint. The treaty went through a couple revisions, through the cooperation of several realms. Again, it was dictated to Sint how things would be. Nowhere in the treaty does it ever hint that the treaty is optional, a suggestion, or a guideline/framework. It flat out states requirements and organizations. So, given the conditions that went into forming the treaty and the new realm, is it any wonder that people, especially those from Sint, would take it seriously? It has been "this or war" since the beginning.
So, now we move on to the situation where Victus walks into Sint and is, quite frankly, arrogant and hostile from the beginning. He issues threats about diplomatic repercussions if his demands for the treatment of his duchy aren't met. (Albeit there was some provocation for that.) He forms the new realm in a hurried rush long before we are ready, titles himself as "Grand Prince" which Ralina views as a subservient title which could hint that we are to be a second-class realm, under thrall to someone else. (Could this be a bid to legitimize "Emperor" Michael's claim to be an Emperor by creating a client state and spread his religion? (Yes, Ralina is paranoid.)) Victus claims that titles don't matter. Excuse me? Titles don't matter?!
When questioned about the titles, Victus starts in with the "damnable treaty" stuff, and literally trashing the treaty, criticizing it for having typos, being poorly written, and for having no force to bind us because we didn't sign it. He states that we have a right to determine for ourselves how to govern our realm, and that the treaty has no bearing on this.
Ummm... excuse me? The treaty is the entire source of Victus' authority to rule. The *only* reason Victus gets to be ruler is because the treaty let's Old Grehk name the ruler. Without the treaty, Victus is a squatter who has been forced on us by a foreign power under threat of war. He is the illegitimate Squatter King ... err Prince ... of Caelum.
The treaty is quite explicit in how things work. Sint and Nothoi (I think) name dukes, and Old Grehk names a ruler. Not "Old Grehk names a ruler and a Duke". But here we have a ruler and duke appointed by that foreign power under threat of war. (Whether or not Old Grehk intended that is irrelevant. Victus was appointed by Old Grehk, and used the authority of Old Grehk to grant himself a duchy to which he has no claim.
Some people claim that we can pick and choose which parts of the treaty we use, and which to discard. But if we do that, then what guarantees do we have that any of them will be kept? Victus has been doing everything by fiat, without any discussion or consulting the realm at all. Just *poof* here's another royal decree. What could be next?
So, basically, so far as my character sees it, Victus is breaking the treaty so he can create and keep a duchy to which he has no right, and in so doing diminishing the power of the other dukes (one of which is a follower of Hemaism, as is Ralina). Victus is also trashing the treaty claiming it has no force over us, and that we should determine for ourselves how we want to be. But if it doesn't, then Victus has no right to rule, since the treaty is his sole source of authority. Some are calling for the government to step down and hold free elections.
So, there you have it.
-
Lets get some things straight here.
Sint started making plans for their own colony right after our war with the Daimons without discussing it with the other realms in the North. Considering that most of the deciding battles that led to the victory against the Daimons were fought in the lands of Old Grehk and Thalmarkin, dont you think it was kind of insulting towards your neighbours who were instrumental in mankinds victory to not consult with them first? To me, that was very presumptious of Sint to think they have a right to make plans with the recovered lands without consulting their neighbours.
I always had a goal to help a new realm establish themselves if we ever managed to recover lands from the blight. The moment I found out Sint was already making plans without the rest of us (just Nothoi at the time if I recall correctly) I involved myself in the discussions.
I pushed for a free realm to be established, made up of all the surviving realms that chose to participate in its creation, that could determine its own course. That is what we have done with Caelum. I know Sint had other ideas in mind originally, but it was a combined effort and thus it has been reflected as such. I may have been a little forceful during discussions, but that was only because at times it was coming across as if Sint wanted to push their own agenda and simply make it into their own puppet colony, which was defeating the purpose of giving something back to Beluaterra that embodied the remaining realms on the continent. I have also never implied nor made any threats of war in regards to the formation of Caelum or anything else.
Whatever happened with Victus during his time in Sint, I cannot say as I was not privy to the discussions. I am only aware of what was shared with the other rulers and the reason that Victus gave to the rulers for hastening the creation of Caelum.
The realm was formed and the nobles were appointed accordingly in the spirit of the treaty from what I can tell. We never stipulated in the treaty that the realm could not make changes once it had established itself and we never mentioned anything about hindering the realm from establishing additional duchies. To me, the treaty was a stepping stone to establish the realm which was done in good spirits and cooperation of the realms who participated in signing it. It is not a law abiding document that outlines every single thing the realm can and cannot do. To presume so, is frankly, quite stupid.
The realm is formed, the positions, Dukes and lordships were fulfilled, as far as I know, according to the treaty. Its up to Caelum now what direction it takes.
-
Oh... So out of sympathy. :P
Ha, very well played! I yield.
-
To start with, Sint was told in no. Uncertain terms that if it didn't agree to the formation of a combined realm, or violated the treaty, that it would result in a combined war against Sint. Victus tossed around threats while he was in Sint that if Sint didn't comply with the treaty (specifically the religious aspect) that there would be diplomatic repercussions against Sint. The treaty went through a couple revisions, through the cooperation of several realms. Again, it was dictated to Sint how things would be. Nowhere in the treaty does it ever hint that the treaty is optional, a suggestion, or a guideline/framework. It flat out states requirements and organizations. So, given the conditions that went into forming the treaty and the new realm, is it any wonder that people, especially those from Sint, would take it seriously? It has been "this or war" since the beginning.
And yet the people involved OOCly say otherwise. Funny that. Perhaps it is more that the leader of Sint at the time was claiming such to deflect any 'weakness' in her position onto others? Though I have little doubt that the northern realms were vehemently opposed to Sint establishing mini-theocracies anywhere.
So, now we move on to the situation where Victus walks into Sint and is, quite frankly, arrogant and hostile from the beginning. He issues threats about diplomatic repercussions if his demands for the treatment of his duchy aren't met. (Albeit there was some provocation for that.) He forms the new realm in a hurried rush long before we are ready, titles himself as "Grand Prince" which Ralina views as a subservient title which could hint that we are to be a second-class realm, under thrall to someone else. (Could this be a bid to legitimize "Emperor" Michael's claim to be an Emperor by creating a client state and spread his religion? (Yes, Ralina is paranoid.)) Victus claims that titles don't matter. Excuse me? Titles don't matter?!
On the contrary, Victus only acted as such when Sintians began making demands or attempted to issue ultimatums, all of which were then shared with the rulers of Thalmarkin, Old Grehk, and Nothoi. And all of which quickly led to Sint backpedaling.
After all, if Victus wanted war, it wouldn't have been too hard to arrange. He constantly tried warning Sintians that they're widely despised and to change their ways (in nicer terms) and even attempted to redirect his old friend, the new leader of Sint, to be more careful with his words. His time in Sint, however, has twice-over only reminded him of the dangers they pose to civilized lands.
And no, Victus never said titles did not matter. He said how people view the titles outside the realm does not matter. If they want to believe themselves superior to the leader of Caelum, they are welcome to and in for a rude awakening. Honestly though? He would -love- to change the title. In the future. When Caelum is rebuilt and they truly deserve to declare themselves an empire.
When questioned about the titles, Victus starts in with the "damnable treaty" stuff, and literally trashing the treaty, criticizing it for having typos, being poorly written, and for having no force to bind us because we didn't sign it. He states that we have a right to determine for ourselves how to govern our realm, and that the treaty has no bearing on this.
Because it does not. The treaty was for the creation of the realm, not beyond that. Again, judging from the words of two of its creators, this is a correct interpretation of the treaty.
Victus never agreed to the treaty. In fact, he complained to Michael that it was poorly written and full of loopholes. Was essentially told to grin and bear it until the realm was created.
Ummm... excuse me? The treaty is the entire source of Victus' authority to rule. The *only* reason Victus gets to be ruler is because the treaty let's Old Grehk name the ruler. Without the treaty, Victus is a squatter who has been forced on us by a foreign power under threat of war. He is the illegitimate Squatter King ... err Prince ... of Caelum.
As legitimate as any lord in Caelum is. So, when Ralina, Moonglum, and everyone else step down, they'll finally have the right to demand the same of others (not that Moonglum is causing trouble. He's actually offered Victus his full support).
The Dukes support him. That's a damned 'right to rule' right there.
The treaty is quite explicit in how things work. Sint and Nothoi (I think) name dukes, and Old Grehk names a ruler. Not "Old Grehk names a ruler and a Duke". But here we have a ruler and duke appointed by that foreign power under threat of war. (Whether or not Old Grehk intended that is irrelevant. Victus was appointed by Old Grehk, and used the authority of Old Grehk to grant himself a duchy to which he has no claim.
He is ruler. He has all the 'claim' he needs. Everyone in the realm has been appointed by a 'foreign power'. Caelum isn't Sintian.
Some people claim that we can pick and choose which parts of the treaty we use, and which to discard. But if we do that, then what guarantees do we have that any of them will be kept? Victus has been doing everything by fiat, without any discussion or consulting the realm at all. Just *poof* here's another royal decree. What could be next?
Untrue. Completely untrue, actually. It's just that he asks the leading nobles of the realm and those he trusts. Can't imagine why he wouldn't trust your character...
So, basically, so far as my character sees it, Victus is breaking the treaty so he can create and keep a duchy to which he has no right, and in so doing diminishing the power of the other dukes (one of which is a follower of Hemaism, as is Ralina). Victus is also trashing the treaty claiming it has no force over us, and that we should determine for ourselves how we want to be. But if it doesn't, then Victus has no right to rule, since the treaty is his sole source of authority. Some are calling for the government to step down and hold free elections.
Excluding the fact that he has time and again said it will be rewarded to a noble that proves him or herself in their honor, loyalty, and duty to Caelum, of course. And he's actually kept every word he has made so far. Funny that.
And the treaty no longer has any force on us, no. It was for the creation of the realm and nothing more. Unfortunately it was Sint's own actions that caused its rushing.
Some are calling for it, yes. Their words will fall on deaf ears. We are not a democracy.
So, there you have it.
Yes, rabblerouser sees things. Upset when she realizes her true masters, that being Sint, will have less influence than she imagined they would.
Ha, very well played! I yield.
*bows* I do truly wish you stayed with the Church as Henry. Would've been fun. Provided he stopped the whole garbage of trying to drag it to defend Melhed and their blood cultists.
-
*bows* I do truly wish you stayed with the Church as Henry. Would've been fun. Provided he stopped the whole garbage of trying to drag it to defend Melhed and their blood cultists.
Meh, it was just a phase. The Church was weak though, being led by secular and pragmatic people: Henry hated that. Look to Quintarianism in Rio, and it's phenomenally involved with the politics. As a side note, the whole "since we know you don't have a Church all the way down there, we're appointing you the officially sanctioned apostate of our religion. You have to pay 99 gold a month, or you'll owe us money and never be able to leave" was total crap, and for that reason alone I'll never return.
-
It is.
And this appointment is going to enrage Alaron after a Thunder Strike Judge banned him from Astrum back on Dwilight.
Edit: On the topic of dissent? I enjoy dissent when it has a purpose. I don't like it when it's "just because" - seeing as this situation in the realm is (in my eyes) the former rather than the latter, I'm enjoying reading it so far.
That guy got to be a judge on Dwilight... with that name...?
-
Wasn't me doing it and it was more a "make life harder" thing. The one mostly responsible for the vast majority of that is gone now though.
As for the Church not defending Melhed? They were in a stronger position militarily (and were trying to use in an attempt to push Thalmarkin around for awhile) and, frankly, how could Victus support a realm that harbors a religion that practices blood sacrifices? Know another religion that did that? Blood Cult.
Rio is also a realm that had pretty much no religious influence there anymore. OG has had Daishi, OGF, and the CoH, in addition to Esta..whateverism, Hemaism, and the Bloodspeakers lapping at their borders.
Easy to claim a religion is stronger when it has no competition.
And Chenier, it was a different member of the family. Ekirt Thunder Strike. Still judge of Astrum.
-
Seems like all new realms generate their heap of drama. Did planned colonies always do as much?
-
More so when they're comprised of nobles of various realms and faiths.
-
And yet the people involved OOCly say otherwise. Funny that. Perhaps it is more that the leader of Sint at the time was claiming such to deflect any 'weakness' in her position onto others? Though I have little doubt that the northern realms were vehemently opposed to Sint establishing mini-theocracies anywhere.
On the contrary, Victus only acted as such when Sintians began making demands or attempted to issue ultimatums, all of which were then shared with the rulers of Thalmarkin, Old Grehk, and Nothoi. And all of which quickly led to Sint backpedaling.
-Yes at the time I remember the only objection Sint made was when I made the mistake and included two of their lands as part of Caelum. But there was not much opinion given. The Pontifex at the time said it wanted either a theocracy or a monarchy under hemaism. All realms said no. Sint went quiet.
And no, Victus never said titles did not matter. He said how people view the titles outside the realm does not matter. If they want to believe themselves superior to the leader of Caelum, they are welcome to and in for a rude awakening. Honestly though? He would -love- to change the title. In the future. When Caelum is rebuilt and they truly deserve to declare themselves an empire.
Because it does not. The treaty was for the creation of the realm, not beyond that. Again, judging from the words of two of its creators, this is a correct interpretation of the treaty.
That is of course OOCly speaking, you ask Scherzer he will confirm this. Finan does not know about this.
Victus never agreed to the treaty. In fact, he complained to Michael that it was poorly written and full of loopholes. Was essentially told to grin and bear it until the realm was created.
As legitimate as any lord in Caelum is. So, when Ralina, Moonglum, and everyone else step down, they'll finally have the right to demand the same of others (not that Moonglum is causing trouble. He's actually offered Victus his full support).
Well, the treaty could have changed and improved during the time you were in Sint preparing everything. About the misspelling I´ll have to start triple checking my official writings now...
And considering that, at least in Finan´s case (don´t know the others) he was appointed by a Duke in Nothoi, he has authority to do it. If the region changed back to Nothoi we would still be the lord of his region.
The Dukes support him. That's a damned 'right to rule' right there.
He is ruler. He has all the 'claim' he needs. Everyone in the realm has been appointed by a 'foreign power'. Caelum isn't Sintian.
Untrue. Completely untrue, actually. It's just that he asks the leading nobles of the realm and those he trusts. Can't imagine why he wouldn't trust your character...
Excluding the fact that he has time and again said it will be rewarded to a noble that proves him or herself in their honor, loyalty, and duty to Caelum, of course. And he's actually kept every word he has made so far. Funny that.
Yes but the dukes support him based on the treaty. If he trows away the treaty, all the claim and support he has is gone.
With all the nobles being lords, every one should be consulted. If he is truly giving the duchy to someone, he should step down as duke at least, leave it empty to award to the noble. But until then yest it does look like he is taking away power from Moonglum who is a priest from a religion Victus doesn´t like, combined with the fact that he created a new duchy in Heen to give to Moonglum instead of stepping down and granting him the duchy.
And the treaty no longer has any force on us, no. It was for the creation of the realm and nothing more. Unfortunately it was Sint's own actions that caused its rushing.
You are not entirely right, all the authority that exists in the realm, exists because of it. So it has force on you all. And considering how much he claimed that the treaty should be followed and everything while he was on Sint, to damn it now it is odd.
-
int started making plans for their own colony right after our war with the Daimons without discussing it with the other realms in the North. Considering that most of the deciding battles that led to the victory against the Daimons were fought in the lands of Old Grehk and Thalmarkin, dont you think it was kind of insulting towards your neighbours who were instrumental in mankinds victory to not consult with them first? To me, that was very presumptious of Sint to think they have a right to make plans with the recovered lands without consulting their neighbours.
That could be. But that doesn't change the fact that Sint was forced to accept the treaty to create the new realm. The reasons behind that aren't really germane to the outcome. Sint was forced to accept the treaty, and they acquiesced.
The realm was formed and the nobles were appointed accordingly in the spirit of the treaty from what I can tell. We never stipulated in the treaty that the realm could not make changes once it had established itself and we never mentioned anything about hindering the realm from establishing additional duchies. To me, the treaty was a stepping stone to establish the realm which was done in good spirits and cooperation of the realms who participated in signing it.
If that is what you intended, then that's what you should have written. But it's not. The treaty uses very specific language to define the structure of the realm. "The realm will have this", "The realm will have that", etc. There is no wiggle room, or qualifications on any of the requirements.
In fact, reading the treaty again now, Victus broke the treaty even before the realm was founded, by selecting which lords were to be given which regions. According to the treaty, this power was reserved for the dukes of the individual duchies.
It is not a law abiding document that outlines every single thing the realm can and cannot do. To presume so, is frankly, quite stupid.
No one ever claimed that it was a document that should be followed, verbatim, for all of time. However, to discard the treaty from the start, and not even bother implementing the system defined in the treaty, is ... unseemly. It is disrespectful of the founding realms, and the treaty itself, from which all authority in Caelum derives. It should have been implemented as laid out, and the treaty then declared fulfilled. At that point, we could go whatever direction we wanted, without having to worry about anything.
-
That was what I tried to argue IC.
-
And yet the people involved OOCly say otherwise.
As far as IC goes, that's irrelevant. OOC intentions and claims have no bearing on IC actions of the characters. If they wanted the treaty to be a general guideline, they should have written it that way,
Perhaps it is more that the leader of Sint at the time was claiming such to deflect any 'weakness' in her position onto others? Though I have little doubt that the northern realms were vehemently opposed to Sint establishing mini-theocracies anywhere.
It is possible that Sint's ruler made it appear more forceful than it was. But as nbeither you nor I were on the ruler's channel at the time, neither of us can really say that with any certainty.
On the contrary, Victus only acted as such when Sintians began making demands or attempted to issue ultimatums, all of which were then shared with the rulers of Thalmarkin, Old Grehk, and Nothoi. And all of which quickly led to Sint backpedaling.
I did say that it was not without provocation, didn't I?
And yes, I know that Victus was sharing carefully chosen letters with various rulers. I shared some, too, along with explanations, and was told something like "Thank you very much for clarifying the situation."
After all, if Victus wanted war, it wouldn't have been too hard to arrange. He constantly tried warning Sintians that they're widely despised and to change their ways (in nicer terms) and even attempted to redirect his old friend, the new leader of Sint, to be more careful with his words. His time in Sint, however, has twice-over only reminded him of the dangers they pose to civilized lands.
Indeed they do. You should nuke them from orbit.
It's the only way to be sure.
Because it does not. The treaty was for the creation of the realm, not beyond that. Again, judging from the words of two of its creators, this is a correct interpretation of the treaty.
No, not the creators. The players that play the creators. That's an OOC opinion of their intentions after the fact. It ahs no bearing on the IC actions of our characters. Or at least it shouldn't. We have to deal with things IC the way they are presented IC, and not the way we OOC intended them to be interpreted. That's how misunderstandings happen, and generate the conflict upon which the game thrives.
Victus never agreed to the treaty. In fact, he complained to Michael that it was poorly written and full of loopholes. Was essentially told to grin and bear it until the realm was created.
And... so what? If Victus signs a treaty, will the next Grand Prince be able to just unilaterally declare it null and void because he didn't sign it? That would make for one hell of a screwy diplomatic situation if we all did that.
As legitimate as any lord in Caelum is. So, when Ralina, Moonglum, and everyone else step down, they'll finally have the right to demand the same of others
Start from the top. Let's get ourselves a true ruler, selected by the people of Caelum, and not a foreign interloper, and do it right. ;)
The Dukes support him. That's a damned 'right to rule' right there.
Indeed it is.
Untrue. Completely untrue, actually. It's just that he asks the leading nobles of the realm and those he trusts. Can't imagine why he wouldn't trust your character...
Because he's only interested in hearing the opinions of the people that already support him? What's a Senate without someone to bring a little dissent, and live things up? Rather than simply ignore Ralina and hope she goes away, Victus should be trying to win over to his point of view. So far, there really hasn't been anything too bad between them that would prevent it.
Excluding the fact that he has time and again said it will be rewarded to a noble that proves him or herself in their honor, loyalty, and duty to Caelum, of course. And he's actually kept every word he has made so far.
He hasn't really given his word on much of anything yet, to prove he can keep it. There's also nothing that would stop him from creating a new duchy later one, when the situation merited it. Instead, if we wait until we find some war hero to take the duchy, we'll be waiting for *years*, since we're pretty much going to be allied to most of the continent. Which is probably what Victus is counting on. That way he doesn't have to give it up.
Up to now, Victus has just done whatever he wants, without consulting the realm. He's formed a Senate now, but he didn't tell the realm he formed a Senate, what its purpose is, who's in it, how to get in it... It's like a giant information vacuum. I mean, we have a realm of 17 nobles. 11 of us are region lords. You can't even put us all in the Senate message group, so it's a bit gimped. Given the formative state of the realm, and the fact that at pretty much 3/4ths of us are either lords or council members, trying to do things via a message group is guaranteed to disenfranchise a significant portion of the nobles that deserve to be in it.
Some are calling for it, yes. Their words will fall on deaf ears. We are not a democracy.
No, we're a tyranny. ;)
Upset when she realizes her true masters, that being Sint, will have less influence than she imagined they would.
Ralina is under no illusions as to how Sint is viewed outside their own realm. Pretty much everyone in Sint knows. That's what makes life so much more exciting. Skulking around behind the scenes, being nice to everyone, and then winning simply because everyone else got bored and quit, and you're the only one left? What fun is that. We need conflict. We need war. We need something to liven this continent up. Let's get the wars going!
FWIW - If my character had survived the third invasion, he would have been leading the charge to exterminate Sint. Alas, he did in one of the final huge battle of the invasion, and his realm was eventually torn apart by political dissent, and finally wiped out and blighted in the fourth invasion. Their capital now lost forever under the waves of the Enotian Sea...
-
That was what I tried to argue IC.
A couple people have tried to do that. But that line of reasoning is a direct threat to Victus' iron-fisted dominance over the realm, so it can't be tolerated.
-
He does not seem to be too big on dissent, does he? That Judge is a piece of work too ;)
-
What Victus is doing makes sense for a ruler consolidating his power base: Marginalize and isolate those who you think might be a threat to you. So I can see why he's doing it. Still, it makes for a boring game when you surround yourself with people who agree with you on most everything. If Victus manages to oust Ralina from the realm, I will be a bit disappointed. A realm needs its dissenters to keep things interesting.
I always had to give Peri credit for keeping Bowie in Morek in order to keep an eye on him, and keep things going in Morek. I don't think I could have put up with it.
-
I mean, we have a realm of 17 nobles. 11 of us are region lords. You can't even put us all in the Senate message group, so it's a bit gimped.
You can't? I didn't think there was a recipient cap on a message list? There isn't one in Atamara, at least.
-
Yep, there's a limit of nobles to message groups, apparently. Something I never noticed before.
-
In fact, reading the treaty again now, Victus broke the treaty even before the realm was founded, by selecting which lords were to be given which regions. According to the treaty, this power was reserved for the dukes of the individual duchies.
Right. Nothing like reading into the treaty things that aren't there. Next thing we know, you'll be claiming that since it doesn't mention maintaining records, we can't have a wiki page. It doesn't mention that we can create laws, so we can't have any of those either. Oh! It lists the titles as Ruler, Judge, Banker, and General! Better go default to those names too!
Honestly, realms are GREAT without dissenters stirring up garbage every chance they get. So long as they have a focus.
-
In other news:
Edmundus has fled to Heen... Onamont is in hot pursuit.
What will come first– a peaceful resolution brokered by the Grand Prince, or a conflictual end with duel-challenges and banishments tossed back and forth?
-
And he's been banned. That's a shame.
-
Did you even *read* the treaty?
"From this list the dukes will chose the lords of their regions in the best way they see fit."
That's not even slightly arbitrary or open to interpretation.
-
Meh. Lame.
Now I realize why I always play with the same players.
Because nobody else enjoys having interesting characters in their realms.
-
I think I may move on. The realm seems pretty dead and uninteresting overall. The momentary dissent and the possibility of a duel were interesting, but there have been no orders for days and if anything else interesting is actually going on, us mere knights are being excluded from it.
Where to go from here...
-
*coughcough*
-
Indeedi!
Join the tournament and see where all the fun is! ;D
-
... if anything else interesting is actually going on, us mere knights are being excluded from it.
It's not just the "mere knights". It's anyone Victus doesn't like. Which is a perfectly legitimate tactic for a ruler to take, if he thinks his political opponents can't gather enough power to cause serious problems. Given the number of yes-men and sheeple in the realm, it's almost certainly true that there will be no serious opposition to Victus' rule of the realm.
-
It's not just the "mere knights". It's anyone Victus doesn't like. Which is a perfectly legitimate tactic for a ruler to take, if he thinks his political opponents can't gather enough power to cause serious problems. Given the number of yes-men and sheeple in the realm, it's almost certainly true that there will be no serious opposition to Victus' rule of the realm.
yeah "mere knights" that are basically all lords.
If this continue to be like this, the realm won´t be fun indeed, and it might make some of the nobles to move away.
-
And he's been banned. That's a shame.
Yes, Onamont is banned!!! As if he had left Edmundus any other way out! Edmundus is a 'hero', did him think he was going to break his own law to please him! ;D Onamont has been as subtle as a mountain troll with haemorrhoids! :P
Honestly, I thought he would be a bit more machiavelian... to charge right toward a judge without any support in the council is a suicide! I hope he ask for forgiveness and begin to move things a bit more cunningly.
-
mmm... I honestly don’t know what did you expect.
Hey Judge!, (is this a bettles song?) I want to kill you!... Oh, of course, where do you want to stab me, in the front or in the back? ;D
Hey, I want to begin a little revolution and throw down the ruler!... And in a new realm where nobody knows each other, what reasons has you given to make them to support you? :P
Honestly, I think you wants the things a bit too easy! if you want a revolution, prepare it, gain nobles to the 'cause' before begin it! And if you want to kill a council member?... Well, then better be a friend of someone very important! ;D
-
If Edmundus didn't want to be challenged to a duel, then he shouldn't have been so rude and insulting to Onamont. Twice. *After* Onamont told Edmundus to stop and asked for an apology. Hiding behind the ridiculous law that Edmundus passed without consulting the realm at all just makes Edmundus look like an even worse coward. "You have to ask me for permission before you can challenge me to a duel." Srsly? I don't think anyone doubts that Edmundus would have denied permission.
-
Honestly, I think you wants the things a bit too easy! if you want a revolution, prepare it, gain nobles to the 'cause' before begin it! And if you want to kill a council member?... Well, then better be a friend of someone very important! ;D
You don´t need support from anyone to have a duel. If I feel someone did something to dishonor me, I challenge him to a duel.
Edmund had the option to refuse the duel, that would make him lose a part of his honor, but still it is better then the: "I made the law and I consider illegal to challenge me to a duel, so you are banned" approach
In fact, Edmund didn´t even had to accept a duel to the death, a duel til surrender would be enough to settle the dispute.
-
If Edmundus didn't want to be challenged to a duel, then he shouldn't have been so rude and insulting to Onamont. Twice. *After* Onamont told Edmundus to stop and asked for an apology. Hiding behind the ridiculous law that Edmundus passed without consulting the realm at all just makes Edmundus look like an even worse coward. "You have to ask me for permission before you can challenge me to a duel." Srsly? I don't think anyone doubts that Edmundus would have denied permission.
I said he is the Judge?... He can do wherever he wants! ;D and he really didn't insult him, only make fun of him! ;D
About the duel Authorization: Then Onamont would had ask nicely and put Edmundus in shame, but He didn't... and the thing is Edmundus WOULD had given his Authorisation! As I said, He is a Hero! ;D
As He said to Onamont He is a Tyrant and a Slave of LAW! Tyrant as enforcer, Slave as follower! ;)
-
You don´t need support from anyone to have a duel. If I feel someone did something to dishonor me, I challenge him to a duel.
Edmund had the option to refuse the duel, that would make him lose a part of his honor, but still it is better then the: "I made the law and I consider illegal to challenge me to a duel, so you are banned" approach
In fact, Edmund didn´t even had to accept a duel to the death, a duel til surrender would be enough to settle the dispute.
Nope! The law was before Onamont, was Onamont the one who chose not to follow the law! bad for him! ;D And a duel til surrender don't solve anything... not for Onamont. bad for him, again! 8)
-
Yeah... you're not making Edmundus sound any better...
-
Oh, and he was banned basically for to have the mouth too big and the brain too small, nothing to do with the duel. ::)
Edmundus FOLLOW the law, but I never said he was a saint! He has... his ups and downs! ::)
Ouch!!! 3:17 am, time to sleep! bye!
-
Oh, and he was banned basically for to have the mouth too big and the brain too small, nothing to do with the duel. ::)
Edmundus FOLLOW the law, but I never said he was a saint! He has... his ups and downs! ::)
Ouch!!! 3:17 am, time to sleep! bye!
Yeah... Edmundus doesn't sound that heroic or honorable. Quite the opposite. You hid behind a law you made so didn't have to duel a mere knight (I think he is a knight anyways) and you banned him because of a personal dislike of him not because of anything related to laws.
-
Onamont *was* a knight. His liege, Duke of Tahgalez, kicked him out of his estate as soon as the kerfluffle started.
-
Onamont *was* a knight. His liege, Duke of Tahgalez, kicked him out of his estate as soon as the kerfluffle started.
Correct.
Hey, I want to begin a little revolution and throw down the ruler!... And in a new realm where nobody knows each other, what reasons has you given to make them to support you? :P
Honestly, I think you wants the things a bit too easy! if you want a revolution, prepare it, gain nobles to the 'cause' before begin it! And if you want to kill a council member?... Well, then better be a friend of someone very important! ;D
Now you're making !@#$ up OOCly. I'm sure Victus has had the secret police on me and knows I'm not in the underground at minimum.
The idea that Onamont Vellos would ever involve himself in a secret conspiracy, and the idea that he could ever keep such a secret is patent lunacy.
Do you really think the guy who's willing to toss his entire future in the realm and maybe his very life away over a fairly small conflict, merely over a point of personal honor, is going to be a ringleader of a conspiracy?
Yeah... not quite.
He's never even said anything about the Grand Prince since the very beginning– this is all about Edmundus.
-
Things are getting interesting again. Yay!
-
Meh. Onamont's ban kicks in here shortly– it'll get quiet again soon enough.
Bet if Onamont gets captured he'll be executed. Wouldn't want to let an interesting character stay around for too long now would we.
-
But let's be honest what this is really about.
Edmundus is jealous of Onamont's helmet.
It's very fancy and daemonic.
-
Man, now that I know who to assassinate, some silly Thalmarkins have called for the only bait I cannot refuse... A tournament.
By the way, completely unrelated, what happens if a ban goes into effect while a character is in transit to a tourney? I'd assume it goes into effect and the consequences are truly felt when they get back?
-
I would believe so, Eirikr. Honestly though I am unsure.
And actually, Vellos, Victus hasn't used the secret police on anyone. Not that it's infallible, mind you. Victus was being honest that he wished this would be put aside and that Onamont would be forgiven.
Honestly, on an OOC level I hate this. Was truly looking forward to working with your character. Unfortunately it seems he is still too young and brash. :(
-
Meh. Onamont's ban kicks in here shortly– it'll get quiet again soon enough.
Bet if Onamont gets captured he'll be executed. Wouldn't want to let an interesting character stay around for too long now would we.
Edmundus IS honourable and heroic... in his own way! 8) He is proud of his position and He will not hesitate in the use of his 'powers' if he think is convenient.
Execute Onamont?... mmm... I never have someone executed!!! it will be amusing! ;D
It's a joke, Edmundus don't want him dead, He wants him 'under the law'. If He can do it, he will be happy.
But let's be honest what this is really about.
Edmundus is jealous of Onamont's helmet.
It's very fancy and daemonic.
Yes, I WANT it!... but the helmet has a big fault, it's full of Onamont's head, I must solve this little matter and the Daemonic Helmet WILL BE MINE!!! ;D
-
Meh. Onamont's ban kicks in here shortly– it'll get quiet again soon enough.
Bet if Onamont gets captured he'll be executed. Wouldn't want to let an interesting character stay around for too long now would we.
Well, you have an offer of sanctuary. And another public protest in support of you. Alaron has no love for those whom he sees as tyrant-Judges, especially after what Ekirt did to him.
Edit: And now telling Alaron to "Shut up" - Now you've done it.
-
So if Alaron does not kill Edmund we can see Onamont killing him?
-
Alaron won't be aiming to kill him unless he continues to insult him like a child. He'll be going until Surrender.
-
And meanwhile Heen starves to death. ::)
-
And meanwhile Heen starves to death. ::)
Huzza! \o/
The funny part is: Heen starves to death with plenty of food being sold.
-
Meh. Onamont's ban kicks in here shortly– it'll get quiet again soon enough.
Bet if Onamont gets captured he'll be executed. Wouldn't want to let an interesting character stay around for too long now would we.
Come to Riombara, apparently all cool people go there these days. ::)
-
I would believe so, Eirikr. Honestly though I am unsure.
And actually, Vellos, Victus hasn't used the secret police on anyone. Not that it's infallible, mind you. Victus was being honest that he wished this would be put aside and that Onamont would be forgiven.
Honestly, on an OOC level I hate this. Was truly looking forward to working with your character. Unfortunately it seems he is still too young and brash. :(
What's to hate? Things would be dead boring without this little spat to liven up the realm. It's got just about everyone in the realm talking at this point. How can you not love that?
-
What's to hate? Things would be dead boring without this little spat to liven up the realm. It's got just about everyone in the realm talking at this point. How can you not love that?
Vellos is gone, thats what to hate.
-
Eh, he's not gone yet... The Judge is offering to rescind the ban given certain conditions.
-
Sadly, I fear that Onamont will be leaving us. I doubt he will apologize to Edmundus, not that Edmundus deserves one. Too bad, though. Onamont looked like an interest character.
-
Eh, I can see him possibly apologizing to Edmundus since Edmundus offered to also apologize to him *and* Edmundus agreed to duel him, albeit not to the death... What I'm less sure about is whether he'll accept that he needs to apologize to the realm. I certainly don't see why he would.
-
Yeah. Alaron's not too hot on the whole "apologise to the realm" thing either.. he's fed up of the Judge and his childish behaviour. Hence why he's offering sanctuary and also heading to Heen to beat the Judge around a bit. I've even changed his subclass specially for the occasion. :P
-
Onamont will never stand down until he's good as won.
And he'll never let another man surrender to him.
Only death or absolute victory are acceptable.
-
Nice.
With that though, I think his time in Caelum is probably over.
-
Nice.
With that though, I think his time in Caelum is probably over.
Honestly, even if he'd apologized, his time in Caelum was over. Not enough people protested. If it hadn't been this it would be something else. A personality like Onamont's will never get along with a personality like Edmundus. Without the support of a larger number of nobles, he was doomed as soon as the dispute started escalating.
Meh. He'll find a new realm to welcome him. Then he'll train up to be an infil. Then he'll spend his whole career hunting one noble exclusively. Bet you can't guess who.
-
Honestly, even if he'd apologized, his time in Caelum was over. Not enough people protested. If it hadn't been this it would be something else. A personality like Onamont's will never get along with a personality like Edmundus. Without the support of a larger number of nobles, he was doomed as soon as the dispute started escalating.
Meh. He'll find a new realm to welcome him. Then he'll train up to be an infil. Then he'll spend his whole career hunting one noble exclusively. Bet you can't guess who.
That is likely to be a short career. Even if you do get him a few times (which you probably won't if you go after him without training up your infiltration skill substantially), you're eventually going to get caught and banned, and then if you get caught again it's all over. Still, I admire the character's sheer bloody-mindedness, and I will enjoy watching him carry out this plan, especially if it goes better than I'm anticipating here.
-
Well now with the "apology" sent from Onamont....Edmund will have to duel him accepting the death challenge or be branded a crazy coward
-
So far (today at least) there have been four protests against him plus the two or three from earlier this week. Time is ticking, Eddie boy!
-
Not necessarily. I only do not get all the OOC angst you guys seem to have towards the judge. "Oh god, he's doing something for arbitrary reasons, creating conflict and activity in the realm, something we always complain about not having enough of. So we're going to go on the forums and complain there about how he's being arbitrary and evil."
God, what a bunch of hypocrites.
-
So we can't talk about the situations on the realm or anything?
Comment if we dislike or like something?
No one here is being hypocrite, we are discussing our realm. You don't need to read the post if you don't like what is being said.
I don't see anyone here complaining about anything. He IS being arbitrary and evil IC, so what you want us to say? how is the weather and what kind of flowers we like the most?
-
I don't see anyone here complaining about anything. He IS being arbitrary and evil IC, so what you want us to say? how is the weather and what kind of flowers we like the most?
Flowers and weather, in the desert? That must be one short conversation. :)
-
I don't know what you've been reading then... because that's certainly not the atmosphere I've seen.
-
You don't need to read the post if you don't like what is being said.
But, alas, you cannot know if you don't like it until you've read it.
-
But, alas, you cannot know if you don't like it until you've read it.
but if you read it once and don't like it, you don't need to keep on reading.
-
Well considering I'm a part of the realm, why should I stop reading this thread? It's about my realm, I can't exactly go and make another thread about the very same topic.
-
Well you are the one complaining about how hypocrites we are and the way everyone is "complaining". Don't see why someone would continue reading something that he dislikes.
Just pointed the fact that no one is making you read it.
-
Just because we think the character is being evil and arbitrary doesn't mean we're not enjoying the situation. I certainly am.
-
Indeed, we're not OOC complaining about the actions the character has taken. I think even the player of Edmundus has commented on the actions of his character in this thread. No one is OOC complaining that the character shouldn't have done what he did, or that it's bad.
-
I'm not OOCly saying his a bad player at all.
I am very OOCly frustrated things aren't working out how I wanted because I've really put a lot of work into this character that may be unravelled here– but that's just the usual OOC frustration of things not going your way. Doesn't mean I'm not having fun or think less of the other players.
Though I do believe, as a ruler, you have an OOC job to preserve dissent in your realm to keep it fun for the players in your realm, I've seen people banned for lighter offenses than Onamont's behavior.
-
Lady Tsumiki is Riombara's envoy in Caleum. If the northerners prove they can't run a realm like noblemen, then she should be put in charge. If a Riombaran army backing her would help, then so be it.
Riombara's new realpolitik?
-
OH PLEASE! PLEASE! Send a Riombaran army up north to straighten out Caelum!
Riombara, the new Enweil!
That would surely bring loads and loads of !!FUN!! To the party. :D
-
Riombara, the new Enweil!
That would surely bring loads and loads of !!FUN!! To the party. :D
I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or honest here.
I'm not sure there's a difference either. ;D
-
Both, really. Way back when, Riombara was waging war against the imperialistic Enweil, because Enweil was going around forcing realms to become Democracies. To have Riombara sending their army around to be straightening out other realms who can't govern themselves... Priceless. It would be just like Riombara becoming Enweil, for real! Not to mention that if they did somehow try to strongarm or invade Caelum, it would unite the entire northern half of BT in a war against Riombara.
How could you possibly have more !!FUN!!?
-
it would unite the entire northern half of BT in a war against Riombara.
Jackpot 8)
-
Not to mention that if they did somehow try to strongarm or invade Caelum, it would unite the entire northern half of BT in a war against Riombara.
Some would call it a fair fight. They may be deluded, but hey, it's fairer than fighting Enweil!
-
Knights Protesting (3 hours, 40 minutes ago)
Protests against Edmundus Blackmane, Justicarius of Caelum, Knight of Watto are increasing, and result in a loss of a point of prestige for him.
And then there was another protest.
-
Really, I don't know what to think... now, all is silence in Caelum...
My thinkings about this:
Onamont (now, hedgehog Onamont) never was even a little menace. Going against a Council member asking for a death duel was a very bad idea! He was amusing, but way too limited to be a treat. I can understand the 'personality' but obviously it had very few chances of winning. Onamont was a good character, but without a heavy support (something he didn't had), or some 'flexibility' of character, he was doomed.
The ones I don't understand are the rest! Sometimes I really thought they didn't read the messages. Onamont was a bull, always changing ahead, but he had his motivations, a clear target (Edmundus?) and he 'reacted' to Edmundus words (usually, with insults)! ;D
The impression about the rest is they only wanted to make noise, no matter the reasons... or the things Edmundus or Onamont said. A bit as a bunch of schoolboys! :P And, honestly, the effect was total when the teacher (Victus) shouted and all the boys become mute! :-X Now, they don't care about duels, honour, etc... Suddenly, All are good boys!!! ;D
Honestly, when I connected a few minutes ago, I was waiting to see messages of protest, uproar and indignation... maybe a rebellion? something coherent with the days before, but I find nothing! :o The rebellious noblemen had become tamed kitties? ;D
OOC, I'm sorry for the loss of Onamont, and because we had lost the 'duels', a very valuable RP recourse... but usually abused and eliminated, as now has happened.
-
I had a protest against Victus' decree mostly written but ran out of time before work caught up with me. It will happen tonight.
-
Really, I don't know what to think... now, all is silence in Caelum...
That's what happens when the ruler flips his lid and yells at everyone to shut up.
Onamont (now, hedgehog Onamont) never was even a little menace. Going against a Council member asking for a death duel was a very bad idea! He was amusing, but way too limited to be a treat. I can understand the 'personality' but obviously it had very few chances of winning. Onamont was a good character, but without a heavy support (something he didn't had), or some 'flexibility' of character, he was doomed.
As far as I can tell, Onamont wasn't trying to be a threat/menace. He was reacting to the insults delivered by Edmundus. He wasn't trying to cause civil unrest, a rebellion, etc. All he wanted was an apology from Edmundus. That's all he ever asked for.
The ones I don't understand are the rest! Sometimes I really thought they didn't read the messages. Onamont was a bull, always changing ahead, but he had his motivations, a clear target (Edmundus?) and he 'reacted' to Edmundus words (usually, with insults)! ;D
Perhaps you should stop thinking that Onamont had any kind of agenda, or any kind of "target".
The impression about the rest is they only wanted to make noise, no matter the reasons... or the things Edmundus or Onamont said.
For my part, that is absolutely not true at all. Ralina is genuinely angered at Edmundus' attitude and actions.
Honestly, when I connected a few minutes ago, I was waiting to see messages of protest, uproar and indignation... maybe a rebellion? something coherent with the days before, but I find nothing! :o The rebellious noblemen had become tamed kitties? ;D
Again, there is no one "rebellious" here. There are quite a few people that are very angry with Edmundus' actions. And you will note that, so far, there is *no one* that is speaking up in support of Edmundus. Just the typical calls for people to concentrate on "stuff that matters".
OOC, I'm sorry for the loss of Onamont, and because we had lost the 'duels', a very valuable RP recourse... but usually abused and eliminated, as now has happened.
Are you saying that duels are usually abused? As in, you think that most duel challenges are done for abusive purposes? Despite the claims that some people make, I have to say that I have never seen anyone abuse the dueling system in this manner. Most of the time I see people refuse duels without a good reason. IMHO, the situation we just had resulted in a perfectly justified duel challenge from Onamont.
-
I've been issued duels by random people I've never met before...
-
It's your (in)famous family reputation. ;)
Come to think of it, I think I was once challenged like that before, too, quite a long time ago. What I have never seen is someone who attempts to abuse the system by inventing fake reasons to duel, and uses that to attempt to kill all council members in the realm, or some other such nonsense. In fact, I've seen very few duels at all lately, and almost no death duels.
-
It's your (in)famous family reputation. ;)
Come to think of it, I think I was once challenged like that before, too, quite a long time ago. What I have never seen is someone who attempts to abuse the system by inventing fake reasons to duel, and uses that to attempt to kill all council members in the realm, or some other such nonsense. In fact, I've seen very few duels at all lately, and almost no death duels.
I've seen people issue duels over pretty much nothing, to pretty much a bunch of people. Not recently, though, and not more than than three I'd say, maybe just two. Years ago.
-
Isn't dueling for dueling's sake against one of the major rules of the game? Or was that just duel rings?
-
I think it was duel rings.
And now things get a little more interesting as some nobles are protesting against Victus, including one of the dukes.
-
Wait, I thought it was only a few isolated rabbleroublerousers and career troublemakers who were comaplining about everything, just for the sake of complaining... ::)
-
Isn't dueling for dueling's sake against one of the major rules of the game? Or was that just duel rings?
Neither, but Tom has a strong dislike about duels being issued for anything other than a... duel. A really strong dislike. Using it for gladiator arena-style guilds is not recommended, especially for Dwilight, where it might be against SMA. As far as I can recall, there's no official rule the magistrates could use to punish someone who misuses duels, but I'm pretty darn sure that if ever a duel ring gets successful, Tom will do something about it.
-
Duels are for duels of honor. If you want to do your gladiator battles, swordfighting guilds, or private tournamements, then use the Training Match option. That's why it was added.
-
Duels are for duels of honor. If you want to do your gladiator battles, swordfighting guilds, or private tournamements, then use the Training Match option. That's why it was added.
I could see people using training matches instead of duels if some minor changes were made.
-
Neither, but Tom has a strong dislike about duels being issued for anything other than a... duel. A really strong dislike. Using it for gladiator arena-style guilds is not recommended, especially for Dwilight, where it might be against SMA. As far as I can recall, there's no official rule the magistrates could use to punish someone who misuses duels, but I'm pretty darn sure that if ever a duel ring gets successful, Tom will do something about it.
Duels serious affairs meant to be used to defend one's honor, and may result in character death. They are not for sport or fun. As such, dueling guilds are prohibited if they use game-mechanic duels. Dueling guilds using roleplayed duels are acceptable.
Source: http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Rules_and_Policies
The way it's written is kinda vague and it was likely written before Training Matches were introduced. (Sorry, I was too lazy to look it up before, but I knew I'd read it somewhere.) I mean, I guess a random duel is okay... if it's a reputation deal and it's stated.
Personally, I've never understood why dueling for sport isn't allowed, but I figured there was a reason.
-
I could see people using training matches instead of duels if some minor changes were made.
Then head over to the Feature Request board for a request to modify it.
-
I think it was duel rings.
And now things get a little more interesting as some nobles are protesting against Victus, including one of the dukes.
Bwahahaha! Tinder, meet match.
Ravenice made an excellent point. No one in the realm has built-in automatic loyalty to Victus or the government. The realm is too new, and his nobles do not share a common background. He probably would be catching more flies with honey, but that just doesn't seem like his style. No complaints here; the conflict is entertaining.
-
Then head over to the Feature Request board for a request to modify it.
I have given up on making feature requests until the doctrine conversion is over, though I do support ones made by others that I think are good.
-
Knights Protesting (6 minutes ago)
Protests against Sir Victus Draco Tanos, Grand Prince of Caelum, Ambassador of Caelum, Duke of the Meshian Plains, Priest of Church of Humanity are increasing, and result in a loss of a point of prestige for him.
Knights Protesting (6 minutes ago)
After loud protest against his actions, Edmundus has been forced to step down from his judge position. He also loses a point of prestige and 12 points of honour.
-
Source: http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Rules_and_Policies
The way it's written is kinda vague and it was likely written before Training Matches were introduced. (Sorry, I was too lazy to look it up before, but I knew I'd read it somewhere.) I mean, I guess a random duel is okay... if it's a reputation deal and it's stated.
Personally, I've never understood why dueling for sport isn't allowed, but I figured there was a reason.
I don't think anyone enforces the policies...? I always thought of them more as recommendations than actual rules.
-
@gustav: my comment had nothing to do with you.
-
Victus declares that he will restore Edmundus as judge, despite the fact that he was protested out of office. Then Victus announced that the troops from Old Grehk are only leaving for a refit, and will soon return, so we had better not even *think* about protesting him out of office!
Protests against Victus continue unabated.
-
The northern rulers just got a report from the baron of Kraake. This will turn fun (hopefully)!
-
Victus declares that he will restore Edmundus as judge, despite the fact that he was protested out of office.
Actually, I'm about 95% sure he can't do that for at least a week...
-
The northern rulers just got a report from the baron of Kraake. This will turn fun (hopefully)!
Yes, this will be fun...specially when playing on both sides. Now all those years playing RPG with more than one character will pay.
This would be just internal if Victus had not given the opening to all of us to talk to the rulers...
Let´s see how things goes...
-
Yes, this will be fun...specially when playing on both sides. Now all those years playing RPG with more than one character will pay.
This would be just internal if Victus had not given the opening to all of us to talk to the rulers...
Let´s see how things goes...
Hey now, you cant know which side Scherzer has yet! ;) The only thing I saw was that Victus ignored Scherzers letter 1 week ago, unless you continued in private... Does Scherzer have more sources than so?
-
Hey now, you cant know which side Scherzer has yet! ;) The only thing I saw was that Victus ignored Scherzers letter 1 week ago, unless you continued in private... Does Scherzer have more sources than so?
There was no private letters...he ignored me...
I have one more source from inside yes, there is not just me.
-
This will be interesting how it turns out. Victus and Edmundus, and others, have declared things like the treaty is just a guidekine, it has no force over us, we didn't sign it, etc. Victus has announced that he has received confirmation from the signatories that the treaty is indeed a guideline, and that it is not intended to force Caelum onto a specific path, or regulate the realm for all time.
Yet now that Viictus is being deposed, he runs to Old Grehk for help. Instead of working with the realm nobles, he yells at them, ordering them all to shut up, and threatens them with the force of Old Grehk's armies. Paraphrasing: "depose me and Old Grehk will put me back on the throne".
So, what happened to going our own way? Determining for ourselves how we will be ruled? Setting our own course? Apparently that's all just bunkum. Or it only applies so long as Victus is on the throne.
Oh yes, this will be fun. Perhaps this could trigger the northern war?
-
YOU ALL ARE A BUNCH OF IGNOBLE AND HONOURLESS TRAITORS!!!... Good!... For a moment I thought you all were ready to chicken! At this point, it would had been totally incoherent! (would had been? it is even correct?) :P
IMHO if a 'medieval' noble reach the level of 'personal insults' there is no way back. It would be surreal to work as if nothing was happened with a man who has insulted your honour a few days before... I can understand even a educated-row solved with a duel... But if insults are throw, and the 'proper respect' is lost, then only one can stand in the end.
This is the reason Edmundus never had insulted anyone, even with Onamont, he only throw back his own insults. For me, to insult in this way, in a medieval atmosphere, means 'total war'. Only one will get out alive of this matter!
It's a shame Edmundus was a council member, if not, He would happyly duel all this bunch of traitors and honourless nobles to death! ;D
The only thing I can't understand is the fast and hard reaction in defense of Onamont... You all were from the same realm, or army comrades, or something?
-
@gustav: my comment had nothing to do with you.
Sorry, removed my message, D:
-
Oh... almost forgot! The things about not wanting duel-competitions... is only for nobles, or it apply to adventurers too?
Maybe my idea of gladiator games, and bets, etc... can be more difficult than I thought... Maybe I could convince Victus to make a realm with the all positions given through auctions!... You want a lordship? ok, how much are you going to pay for it? ;D
-
The only thing I can't understand is the fast and hard reaction in defense of Onamont... You all were from the same realm, or army comrades, or something?
Nope, I never played with him.
The problem was that Edmund banished him for nothing, instead of accepting the duel an fight for his honor. And the ban was given with a backstage "trial". There was really no reason to ban him, out of cowardice and the atemptive to make the realm a tyranny.
-
Ralina has never met these people before. I think there only two of us from Sint? Maybe three? The others are not getting invollved.
Re:advies: they don't duel. They brawl with weapons. The uncivilized peasants.
-
The reaction happened the way it did because Edmundus effectively turned Onamont into a martyr, not because he is particularly beloved or has many allies. I doubt most of the people protesting know Onamont from a hole in the wall.
-
And again:
Knights Protesting (1 hour, 30 minutes ago)
Protests against Sir Victus Draco Tanos, Grand Prince of Caelum, Ambassador of Caelum, Duke of the Meshian Plains, Priest of Church of Humanity are increasing, and result in a loss of a point of prestige for him.
-
Sorry, removed my message, D:
No biggie. I use the mobile (WAP2) version of the forum to post, mostly, and it does not offer a quote function. Hard to relate my post to another without a quote feature.
-
mmm... I think I'm going to make a Edmundus-meltdown.
I changed him to Hero when I first begun to play BM... And honestly, I don't enjoy too much playing a hero... too goody and too limited for my taste! So I send him to have a glorious death battling daemons... no luck... then monsters... no luck either!... :P
If this don't kill him, I don't know what will do. ;D
-
"Lay low, and eventually they'll turn on each other".
I love being right. :P
-
Even though I have no characters on Bel, this has been a really interesting thread to read.
-
YOU ALL ARE A BUNCH OF IGNOBLE AND HONOURLESS TRAITORS!!!... Good!... For a moment I thought you all were ready to chicken! At this point, it would had been totally incoherent! (would had been? it is even correct?) :P
IMHO if a 'medieval' noble reach the level of 'personal insults' there is no way back. It would be surreal to work as if nothing was happened with a man who has insulted your honour a few days before... I can understand even a educated-row solved with a duel... But if insults are throw, and the 'proper respect' is lost, then only one can stand in the end.
This is the reason Edmundus never had insulted anyone, even with Onamont, he only throw back his own insults. For me, to insult in this way, in a medieval atmosphere, means 'total war'. Only one will get out alive of this matter!
It's a shame Edmundus was a council member, if not, He would happyly duel all this bunch of traitors and honourless nobles to death! ;D
The only thing I can't understand is the fast and hard reaction in defense of Onamont... You all were from the same realm, or army comrades, or something?
This message just continues to prove how horribly you have misunderstood the situation.
Onamont has NO friends and comrades. NO connections. And, frankly, he hasn't really tried to make any. He doesn't want friends. He doesn't care about politics. At. All. Nada. Zip. Zilch. If I had the stats for it, I'd have made him a Cavalier already, but I haven't been able to.
People are coming to Onamont's aid because Edmundus made an ass of himself in a very public fashion. You can say all you want, but Edmundus DID insult Onamont when Onamont HAD NOT insulted Edmundus (though he had insulted Victus). Onamont publicly requested multiple apologies, and Edmundus basically laughed and said, "lol, I'm the judge."
Then it went private for a bit– making folks think things were resolving. Then the next thing anybody hears is BAM, Onamont is banned.
Seriously, it's not about Onamont being popular. It's not about friendships. It's not about political schemings abroad. The error that Edmundus/Victus have made since the beginning is to foolishly think this dispute had ANYTHING to do with geopolitical rivalries. It didn't. It was about two stubborn men getting pissed at each other. Trying to play it out as a political question was extremely unwise for the current regime. Victus would have been much wiser to push Edmundus to accept the duel.
He may yet come through this... but not without having severely damaged his own realm and its standing with all its neighbors.
-
This message just continues to prove how horribly you have misunderstood the situation.
Onamont has NO friends and comrades. NO connections. And, frankly, he hasn't really tried to make any. He doesn't want friends. He doesn't care about politics. At. All. Nada. Zip. Zilch. If I had the stats for it, I'd have made him a Cavalier already, but I haven't been able to.
People are coming to Onamont's aid because Edmundus made an ass of himself in a very public fashion. You can say all you want, but Edmundus DID insult Onamont when Onamont HAD NOT insulted Edmundus (though he had insulted Victus). Onamont publicly requested multiple apologies, and Edmundus basically laughed and said, "lol, I'm the judge."
Then it went private for a bit– making folks think things were resolving. Then the next thing anybody hears is BAM, Onamont is banned.
Seriously, it's not about Onamont being popular. It's not about friendships. It's not about political schemings abroad. The error that Edmundus/Victus have made since the beginning is to foolishly think this dispute had ANYTHING to do with geopolitical rivalries. It didn't. It was about two stubborn men getting pissed at each other. Trying to play it out as a political question was extremely unwise for the current regime. Victus would have been much wiser to push Edmundus to accept the duel.
He may yet come through this... but not without having severely damaged his own realm and its standing with all its neighbors.
mmm... Me? misunderstand?... You meant Edmundus!!! Thankfully, is not the same thing!!! ::)
I can't talk for Victus... Obviously, I would not made the same things.
Edmundus has some things very clear:
Council members DON'T death-duel, it would be a weakness for the realm to let any infiltrator to kill them freely.
Onamont insulted all Caelum noblemen, and he insulted the Grand Prince, so he insulted too all Caelum noblemen too... again.
He honestly tried to reason with Onamont, but when him continued insulting him, He made the only thing he had to defend himself: Ban Onamont. And honestly, you think a medieval Judge would made something else in the same situation?... Well, Yes... a Medieval Judge would have chopped his head!!! ;D
Both, Edmundus and Onamont thought the other was in the wrong, and their position was the honourable one... This the interesting point in the situation! mmm... I hadn't thought in this: (maybe it's not possible) but the best answer it could had been to 'depose' Edmundus for a day, duel, and name him Justicarius again the next day... if he was still alive! :P
Right now, the situation is interesting! Edmundus has insulted Ralina publicly, (you know, traitor, scoundrel, etc... the usual) and as he isn't judge any more, He asked the 'traitors' for death duels... but after getting what she wanted, Ralina take all the insults and duels as a joke. This, for a medieval noble would be totally dishonourable and make evident she only 'used' Onamont for her own reasons... But I don't know how are to react the rest of the realm: They will make 'medieval' RP, or they better make a more 'modern politic' RP??? In the first option Ralina is in a bad situation, and she will be probably forced to duel. If is the second, they will simply ignore Edmundus, as if a noble calling names to other was the more usual thing. ::)
Well, We'll see what happens! :)
-
mmm... Me? misunderstand?... You meant Edmundus!!! Thankfully, is not the same thing!!! ::)
I can't talk for Victus... Obviously, I would not made the same things.
Edmundus has some things very clear:
Council members DON'T death-duel, it would be a weakness for the realm to let any infiltrator to kill them freely.
Onamont insulted all Caelum noblemen, and he insulted the Grand Prince, so he insulted too all Caelum noblemen too... again.
He honestly tried to reason with Onamont, but when him continued insulting him, He made the only thing he had to defend himself: Ban Onamont. And honestly, you think a medieval Judge would made something else in the same situation?... Well, Yes... a Medieval Judge would have chopped his head!!! ;D
Both, Edmundus and Onamont thought the other was in the wrong, and their position was the honourable one... This the interesting point in the situation! mmm... I hadn't thought in this: (maybe it's not possible) but the best answer it could had been to 'depose' Edmundus for a day, duel, and name him Justicarius again the next day... if he was still alive! :P
Right now, the situation is interesting! Edmundus has insulted Ralina publicly, (you know, traitor, scoundrel, etc... the usual) and as he isn't judge any more, He asked the 'traitors' for death duels... but after getting what she wanted, Ralina take all the insults and duels as a joke. This, for a medieval noble would be totally dishonourable and make evident she only 'used' Onamont for her own reasons... But I don't know how are to react the rest of the realm: They will make 'medieval' RP, or they better make a more 'modern politic' RP??? In the first option Ralina is in a bad situation, and she will be probably forced to duel. If is the second, they will simply ignore Edmundus, as if a noble calling names to other was the more usual thing. ::)
Well, We'll see what happens! :)
We have no way to know how a medieval noble would actually act, but if there was honor involved the king would most likely see that a duel for honor would happen. If Edmund was indeed so insulted, to ban the noble would be the coward way to do it. Council members do duel to the death and can do it if their honor has been insulted enough to deserve a death duel.
Now, we can all ignore the cries from Edmund, he has shown to be a madman, and there is no honor into dueling a madman for what ever nonsense he says.
-
Knights Protesting (9 hours, 20 minutes ago) Protests against Sir Victus Draco Tanos, Grand Prince of Caelum, Ambassador of Caelum, Duke of the Meshian Plains, Priest of Church of Humanity are increasing, and result in a loss of a point of prestige for him.
A third one... it is tough to protest out a ruler in a monarchy.
-
@poliorketes:
Three things: first, Edmundus offered insult to Onamont, then refused to duel, and banished him. Edmundus has shown that he has no honor. Therefore, he has no right to demand duels from others until he redeems his honor by dueling Onamont.
Second: Ralina laughed at Edmundus, and scorned his message, to mock him. She treated him exactly how Edmundus treated Onamont, by quoting the realm law, and suggesting he be banned, too.
Third, I *hate* it when people send messages and then tack on "HA HA! I insulted you, now you *have* to duel me!!!" I doubly hate it when they do that IC. It is a clear sign that they have no intention to use a duel to resolve a point of honor, and only wish to try to kill someone, or get their character killed.
-
Knights Protesting (38 minutes ago) Protests against Sir Victus Draco Tanos, Grand Prince of Caelum, Ambassador of Caelum, Duke of the Meshian Plains, Priest of Church of Humanity are increasing, and result in a loss of a point of prestige for him.
Blarg... still not enough. Third time for that, but Victus still holds the throne!
-
Well, Edmundus says he'll duel Onamont.
I wager Edmundus will be able to kill Onamont, actually. His sword skill probably isn't that spectacular.
Blarg... still not enough. Third time for that, but Victus still holds the throne!
Isn't that the fourth time?
I've never even seen it get to three. Maybe it's a function of realm size, or time in office, or the H/P of the person holding the office?
-
Third time for Victus.
-
We have no way to know how a medieval noble would actually act, but if there was honor involved the king would most likely see that a duel for honor would happen. If Edmund was indeed so insulted, to ban the noble would be the coward way to do it. Council members do duel to the death and can do it if their honor has been insulted enough to deserve a death duel.
Now, we can all ignore the cries from Edmund, he has shown to be a madman, and there is no honor into dueling a madman for what ever nonsense he says.
;D ;D ;D We have no way to know how a medieval noble would actually act???... to insults??? ::) You said it as if it never have happened!!! there is hundreds of tales and stories about this kind of things!!!
The ban wasn't to coward way, was the only way if you can't duel, and Edmundus as council member can't. Now he can, but Ralina and the rest had showed his real coward colours and refused with ridiculous excuses. ::)
-
;D ;D ;D We have no way to know how a medieval noble would actually act???... to insults??? ::) You said it as if it never have happened!!! there is hundreds of tales and stories about this kind of things!!!
The ban wasn't to coward way, was the only way if you can't duel, and Edmundus as council member can't. Now he can, but Ralina and the rest had showed his real coward colours and refused with ridiculous excuses. ::)
A council member can duel, AFAIK. And it would be widely accepted provided the duel was by a person of even remotely comparable stature; i.e. nearly any player character, as they are the elites of the elites.
But even then– Onamont said Edmundus could select a champion if he so chose. He didn't.
The ban was a coward's out.
-
@poliorketes:
Three things: first, Edmundus offered insult to Onamont, then refused to duel, and banished him. Edmundus has shown that he has no honor. Therefore, he has no right to demand duels from others until he redeems his honor by dueling Onamont.
Second: Ralina laughed at Edmundus, and scorned his message, to mock him. She treated him exactly how Edmundus treated Onamont, by quoting the realm law, and suggesting he be banned, too.
Third, I *hate* it when people send messages and then tack on "HA HA! I insulted you, now you *have* to duel me!!!" I doubly hate it when they do that IC. It is a clear sign that they have no intention to use a duel to resolve a point of honor, and only wish to try to kill someone, or get their character killed.
First: Onamont insulted all Caelum first (and our Grand Prince!!!), so Edmundus only throw his own words to his face. And the first thing He made is to offer: forgot all, apologizes, or not-death duel (and He explained why). So he has all rights to demand duel... even against a honourless traitors!!! If Edmundus was a rogue or an adventurer, it could have logic, but to say he is mad, or have no honour, seems only as a easy excuse. Even more when coming from a duel defender as Ralina!
Second: Edmundus ALWAYS treated Onamont with respect. And take seriously his insults. The easy way would had been to ignore him, or mock him as Ralina do... But Edmundus is a medieval noble, as he couldn't duel him, He chose to ban him for insults against a Council member, (well, and lies, and menaces, etc... ) I simply find totally *HATEFUL* and unreal to make a medieval noble to 'swallow' insults as if nothing happened and even joke about it!
Third: Welcome to the club! This is why Edmundus never insult! But the message He used against Relina to show how hypocrite and honourless she was!... And it was a totally calculated movement... and with great success! If Relina had really thought all the things she said, She would have duel Edmundus... She only didn't refused, but She JOKED about it!!! Showing all Caelum she only used Onamont, but never really cared about insults or honour or duels!!!
And of course Edmundus want to duel all of them! He knows he had very little possibilities, but they had throw him out of his position, had insulted him, and are destroying Caelum (in Edmundus POV) ... You REALLY need more reasons for a duel???!!! 8)
-
A council member can duel, AFAIK. And it would be widely accepted provided the duel was by a person of even remotely comparable stature; i.e. nearly any player character, as they are the elites of the elites.
But even then– Onamont said Edmundus could select a champion if he so chose. He didn't.
The ban was a coward's out.
In the 'Game' of course they can. But 'Edmundus laws' said NO COUNCIL MEMBER DEATH-DUEL. So He couldn't!!! :P This has changed now thanks to Ralina and crew!
The think about the champion... Honestly, I don't really remember it!!! Maybe Edmundus scribe was drunk this day? :P
The ban basically wasn't for the duel... was for the insults to Edmundus... As any good noble, He didn't stand insults!!! Of course He did said it was for lies, menaces and insults, etc... but the main reason were the insults!
-
;D ;D ;D We have no way to know how a medieval noble would actually act???... to insults??? ::) You said it as if it never have happened!!! there is hundreds of tales and stories about this kind of things!!!
The ban wasn't to coward way, was the only way if you can't duel, and Edmundus as council member can't. Now he can, but Ralina and the rest had showed his real coward colours and refused with ridiculous excuses. ::)
You can never know and be 100% sure, tales and stories changes as they are told. No historical evidence is 100% accurate. So, no, you can´t be 100% sure of it.
-
I suspect that these items will be places where our characters disagree. Which is why they are on opposite sides of the conflict. :) I fully understand that your character sees things differently. I'm not saying you're wrong, just we have different viewpoints.
First: Onamont insulted all Caelum first (and our Grand Prince!!!), so Edmundus only throw his own words to his face. And the first thing He made is to offer: forgot all, apologizes, or not-death duel (and He explained why). So he has all rights to demand duel... even against a honourless traitors!!! If Edmundus was a rogue or an adventurer, it could have logic, but to say he is mad, or have no honour, seems only as a easy excuse. Even more when coming from a duel defender as Ralina!
Ralina doesn't feel insulted by Onamont's comments, mostly because she agrees with them. Why would you feel insulted when someone is saying something you agree with? That would be ridiculous. As such, she sees no reason for Onamont to apologize, because he didn't do anything wrong. Demanding he apologize is simply adding additional humiliation on top of everything. Therefore, Edmundus' behaviour following that was extremely dishonorable, as he used rules he created himself to add more insult and humiliation on top of everything else, in demanding that Onamont ask Edmundus permission to issue a duel challenge to Edmundus. "You have to beg for my permission to ask me to duel, or I will fine and banish you! HA HA A HA!" Edmundus' letter about it was taunting and mocking. I believe you even stated in an earlier post that you intended it to be that way.
Second: Edmundus ALWAYS treated Onamont with respect. And take seriously his insults. The easy way would had been to ignore him, or mock him as Ralina do... But Edmundus is a medieval noble, as he couldn't duel him, He chose to ban him for insults against a Council member, (well, and lies, and menaces, etc... ) I simply find totally *HATEFUL* and unreal to make a medieval noble to 'swallow' insults as if nothing happened and even joke about it!
I beg to disagree. Edmundus was mocking, taunting, and insulting toward Onamont. You called him an oathbreaker, then you called him a double oathbreaker, then you told him that he must meet himself with a sword in each hand and duel himself, then you quoted his letter removing part of it and literally replacing what he said with "blah,blah,blah...".
Third: Welcome to the club! This is why Edmundus never insult! But the message He used against Relina to show how hypocrite and honourless she was!... And it was a totally calculated movement... and with great success! If Relina had really thought all the things she said, She would have duel Edmundus... She only didn't refused, but She JOKED about it!!! Showing all Caelum she only used Onamont, but never really cared about insults or honour or duels!!!
It was no success at all. In fact, it was a failure, and made Edmundus look even worse. After Edmundus' stunt with the fine/banishment of Onamont, most of the realm considers Edmundus to be without honor. Therefore, refusing to duel Edmundus incurs no loss of honor. It's like refusing to duel a peasant. Ralina declined to duel Edmundus until *after* Edmundus redeemed his honor by accepting Onamont's challenge and dueling him. *Then* he can come back and issue a challenge to Ralina, at which point she would not refuse.
In addition, she refused Edmundus' challenge for the same reason that Edmundus refused to duel Onamont: That duels are, after all, illegal. This was a deliberate provocation and mockery of Edmundus. It is, in effect, the same thing that you are claiming Edmundus did: "...throw his own words to his face"
And of course Edmundus want to duel all of them! He knows he had very little possibilities, but they had throw him out of his position, had insulted him, and are destroying Caelum (in Edmundus POV) ... You REALLY need more reasons for a duel???!!! 8)
Yes. She needs an opponent who has honor. The nobility of Caelum already know that Edmundus has no honor. That's why no one reacted in the least when Ralina refused and mocked Edmundus. It's not because they are hypocrites, it's because they all consider Edmundus to have no honor, and therefore no right to demand a duel.
-
Knights Protesting (6 hours, 38 minutes ago) Protests against Sir Victus Draco Tanos, Grand Prince of Caelum, Ambassador of Caelum, Duke of the Meshian Plains, Priest of Church of Humanity are increasing, and result in a loss of a point of prestige for him.
Is this some kind of record?
Victus has tucked in his head, and turtled in his palace. His player has stated he is very busy RL, which is unfortunate. So far we have no IC reason to stop, and protests are now shifting to "why are you ignoring us".
-
Is this some kind of record?
Victus has tucked in his head, and turtled in his palace. His player has stated he is very busy RL, which is unfortunate. So far we have no IC reason to stop, and protests are now shifting to "why are you ignoring us".
There is no IC reason to stop...it is bad that he is not well or busy RL, but we can´t just pause everything.
-
If it weren't for the time-sensitive nature of protests, it would be possible to delay.
-
Knights Protesting (19 minutes ago) After loud protest against his actions, Victus Draco has been forced to step down from his ruler position. He also loses a point of prestige and 4 points of honour.
-
Who do you think will be elected the next ruler?
-
Who do you think will be elected the next ruler?
Me.
-
Who do you think will be elected the next ruler?
I have no idea. I don't even know who will want to run.
-
I have no idea. I don't even know who will want to run.
I would
-
Step 1: elect new king
Step 2: appoint new judge
Step 3: remove onamont's ban
Step 4: profit
-
I'll be ruler. Then I will appoint a good judge of my choosing. Then we shall see to Onamont. :) step 4 will come in due time :)
-
You're awfully confident.
-
If I stay confident maybe i'll get a vote or 2 so that next time we protest I might have a few more. :)
-
He he he... I hope it doesnthappen again. We will have to see if Old Grehk gets all imperialistic and insists on ramming Victus down our throats. I don't think Nothoi or Sint would let them, though.
-
We shall see. :)
-
Sheesh. Just finished scrolling through 10 pages of this...
Well, things are certainly getting interesting, aren't they?
-
Oh and, for anyone curious:
Edmundus will be dueling Hireshmont here in a day or two when they are able to meet up.
-
Yay... we made a person who felt like !@#$ irl feel more like !@#$ apparently. v-v
-
Yay... we made a person who felt like !@#$ irl feel more like !@#$ apparently. v-v
hm? What do you mean?
-
He was sick so he wasn't replying. Now I think he feels worse.
-
As I said IG, I am sorry that he wasn't able to participate toward the end. But it was literally "Don't you dare depose me. Old Grehk's legions are coming back." Then two and a half days of silence. There was no IC reason to not continue, and only one brief OOC that said I will reply tonight, then no replies.
Protesting is time sensitive. You cannot stop and restart where you left off. Even a very brief IC letter may have held off enough protests to keep it from finishing.
I really am sorry he couldn't participate more at the end. But the game keeps going, regardless of whatever any of us may want.
-
Now it is time for the legions of Riombara to move in!
-
I think we never are going to agree... I only will say one thing: If is ok for Ralina to not duel Edmundus because for her, He don't have 'honour', then Edmundus had all reasons for not to duel Onamont...
And honestly, you are right about not waiting for him, but you could be a bit more... sensitive?... He is ill, something like: I'm sorry man, I hope you will be fine soon, and you can make your comeback, etc... it's not a big effort and make people feel better!
-
Now it is time for the legions of Riombara to move in!
Indeed!
And make up your mind, already! Are you trying to get my unit to kill itself over equipment damage before lifting that ban?
-
I think we never are going to agree... I only will say one thing: If is ok for Ralina to not duel Edmundus because for her, He don't have 'honour', then Edmundus had all reasons for not to duel Onamont...
I suppose that is possible for Edmundus to feel that way. But it's not what Edmundus claimed, at any point in the entire process. So it seems to me like you're trying to retcon that in. Ralina thinks Edmundus has no honor, as far as dueling is concerned, because Edmundus refused what she considers a valid duel challenge.
And honestly, you are right about not waiting for him, but you could be a bit more... sensitive?... He is ill, something like: I'm sorry man, I hope you will be fine soon, and you can make your comeback, etc... it's not a big effort and make people feel better!
Mrh? I did say that I was sorry he couldn't participate. As I said IG, I really am sorry that he couldn't play during that time. It was one of the best IC conflict experiences I've had in-game for quite some time. Which I also mentioned IG...
-
I suppose that is possible for Edmundus to feel that way. But it's not what Edmundus claimed, at any point in the entire process. So it seems to me like you're trying to retcon that in. Ralina thinks Edmundus has no honor, as far as dueling is concerned, because Edmundus refused what she considers a valid duel challenge.
Mrh? I did say that I was sorry he couldn't participate. As I said IG, I really am sorry that he couldn't play during that time. It was one of the best IC conflict experiences I've had in-game for quite some time. Which I also mentioned IG...
Oh!... Edmundus 'feels' a lot more things about Ralina! ;D and not, love in not one of them! ::)
About Victus player... Oh, Dear! 'feelings' are not your strong point! ??? There is a subtle, but noticeable(IMHO) difference between say: "I was sorry he couldn't participate", and "I was sorry he was ill and couldn't participate"! The important matter is the illness, not the game.
Ask your wife, girlfriend, etc... about it, and for sure she will give you a 'bit of advice' about it!!! :P
-
Indeed!
And make up your mind, already! Are you trying to get my unit to kill itself over equipment damage before lifting that ban?
I wonder when you get the entire picture.
-
Oh!... Edmundus 'feels' a lot more things about Ralina! ;D and not, love in not one of them! ::)
About Victus player... Oh, Dear! 'feelings' are not your strong point! ??? There is a subtle, but noticeable(IMHO) difference between say: "I was sorry he couldn't participate", and "I was sorry he was ill and couldn't participate"! The important matter is the illness, not the game.
Ask your wife, girlfriend, etc... about it, and for sure she will give you a 'bit of advice' about it!!! :P
You know, you might want to stay away from OOC attacks like this. Just sayin'.
-
About Victus player... Oh, Dear! 'feelings' are not your strong point! ??? There is a subtle, but noticeable(IMHO) difference between say: "I was sorry he couldn't participate", and "I was sorry he was ill and couldn't participate"! The important matter is the illness, not the game.
Letter from Victus Draco Tanos (12 hours, 38 minutes ago)
Message sent to: Cyprian Gothicus, Fingolfin Noldorin, Michael T. Turner, Scherzer Stryfe
((Been sick, so I have kept my replies in bm to a minimum everywhere. Unfortunately, the pissants in the realm couldn't respect that enough to give me time to reply.))
Want to try again to convince me that I should be composing a Hallmark for this guy?
-
Seems like a legitimate complaint to me.
-
If it were true, then maybe. If you completely ignore everything that was happening in-game. And ignore the fact that he OOC said he would reply to messages, and that he then didn't reply to those messages.
-
Seems like a legitimate complaint to me.
No.
Getting sick OOC is not a reasonable reason to expect everyone else to suspend gameplay.
If I am playing basketball with friends and have to go vomit my guts up, they do not have to stop playing.
If I am playing Risk with friends, and have to leave early, they do not have to stop playing.
Especially in something time-sensitive like protesting, you don't have to stop because somebody else isn't hyper-active.
-
I said complaint. I didn't say it wasn't equally reasonable for others to continue playing. It can go both ways you know.
-
I said complaint. I didn't say it wasn't equally reasonable for others to continue playing. It can go both ways you know.
I kinda disagree with calling it legitimate from what I have heard. He OOC said he would reply to things, didn't, and during something time-sensitive.
-
I wonder when you get the entire picture.
I offered my head, which was refused. If they want to do something sneaky, they'd just show how incompetent and treacherous they are at the same time. They can't arrest me without declaring war, and doing so would take a full day, which is plenty of time to just hop on a boat.
In any case, this way I get to keep voting in Enweil referendums, so no biggie I guess.
-
Chenier... wrong thread.
-
Want to try again to convince me that I should be composing a Hallmark for this guy?
pissants? My English is still somewhat rusty... It seems offensive, but I don't know the word, or how offensive is. (nor Hallmark-mark of authenticity?- in this context, BTW... some kind of song?)
Oh!... and this is not a OOC attack, I only was saying, sometimes, two words more, can make things much more pleasant. He is angry? well... Let it be, be the better man, think the best not the worst, etc, etc... 8)
The fact is the game can't wait for any player, wherever he is. Obviously, I can understand his frustration (even more if he is in physical pain). But this only explain his 'outburst', not make it right.
-
If I am playing basketball with friends and have to go vomit my guts up, they do not have to stop playing.
mmm... usually you vomit playing basketball?... :P I think I never will play basketball, I like my guts! ;D
-
pissants? My English is still somewhat rusty... It seems offensive, but I don't know the word, or how offensive is.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pissant
Not a term you use when sitting around a table with friends to play a game.
(nor Hallmark-mark of authenticity?- in this context, BTW... some kind of song?)
Sorry. The Hallmark company is the largest manufacturer/retailer of greeting cards, sympathy cards, get-well cards, etc., in the US. (The world?)
Oh!... and this is not a OOC attack, I only was saying, sometimes, two words more, can make things much more pleasant. He is angry? well... Let it be, be the better man, think the best not the worst, etc, etc... 8)
I'm not the one that started flinging the insults. I expressed my sincere apologies that another player couldn't participate in a very exciting part of the game. In return I get insulted behind my back, and given sensitivity training on the forums.
-
mmm... usually you vomit playing basketball?... :P I think I never will play basketball, I like my guts! ;D
I meant, like, if you randomly got sick or something.
-
Not a term you use when sitting around a table with friends to play a game.
mmm... "A person who existentially resembles a speck of dry !@#$ hanging from an ass hair of a gorilla"... ?! ;D ;D ;D I like the Urban Dic. much better than WordReference!!!... 8)
Yes, You are right, It seems somewhat a crude insult!... I don't want to know what would he do with your get-well card! :P
In other languages insults are always the most difficult words, because you can know what it means, but you don't know (nor 'feels') the 'offensive level' of the insult.
I meant, like, if you randomly got sick or something.
Oh!... make sense... I wouldn't like a sport that makes people to vomit!
-
Do we have this Church of Humaninty in Beluaterra as well? This is a plague everywhere...
-
There are branches on three islands: EC, FEI, and BT. It is largest on EC by a long shot. On BT it has a very strong presence in Old Grehk, but not much elsewhere. On FEI I think it is a small religion mostly in PoZ.
-
In EC I will take care of them... *evil grim*
Unfortunately in BT is little to do about them with the Bloodspeakers.
-
There are branches on three islands: EC, FEI, and BT. It is largest on EC by a long shot. On BT it has a very strong presence in Old Grehk, but not much elsewhere. On FEI I think it is a small religion mostly in PoZ.
In Kindara and PoZ mainly, aye.
In EC I will take care of them... *evil grim*
Unfortunately in BT is little to do about them with the Bloodspeakers.
::) Take it to an EC thread.
-
::) Take it to an EC thread.
I don't need... I think you missed the context. In this situation, the Bloodspeakers.
-
Do we have any Bloodpseakers in Caelum? I know we have Hemaism, Daishi, and CoH. Not sure about any others.
-
Do we have any Bloodpseakers in Caelum? I know we have Hemaism, Daishi, and CoH. Not sure about any others.
If you dont have, its probably the main problem inside Caelum at the moment. A common enemy to hunt is always good for stability!
I almost sent an Order of the Golden Feather priest as our Council member in Caelum, but we may need them better at home.
-
I'm a little discouraged with BT... and we are hated in the north because of the Golden Feather, then we are looking for space in the south. I have to concentrate my efforts to see the entire northern situation and how to improve relations.
It's hard (but also funny) when you have a name that make something "golden" to shiver.
-
OGF?! EVIL! That's probably the only thing that could make the situation in Caelum *worse*! :P
-
See? If a send an "ambassador" or even move with Yeux, the founder, to talk with Caelum... you will face problems with the Golden Feather. They hate us since I converted Melhed and kicked them out.
-
The Golden Feather hates the bloodspeakers since they are nasty people worshipping blood and commiting sacrifices (and most likely dancing with the blood in all horrid shapes and forms!). Also, since most leaders (or at the moment, acctually all leaders) of the OGF are Thalmarkian, it doesnt help that the bloodspeakers are almost exclusively melites... (Fingolfin himself has even more reason to hate them with one of their priests, Pierre, throwing insults all around himself and getting banned from entering Thalmarkin.)
We do however hate hemaism somewhat more for being daimon-lovers...
CoH betrayed us... which makes the perhaps not hated but certainly not liked. Daishi are however quite nice chaps that we are very happy to hang around with!
-
Interesting, after all you are very peaceful with Sint, a realm known for his attempts to not just make peace with the creatures, but also push them to destroy another realms. But who cares since you can hold strong allies!? ;)
It's funny to see a biased view about the Bloodspeakers. Mostly everything is fruit of the common ignorance, but very funny. Then I will not try to change it. Instead, let's dance covered in blood!!! After all, the word "sacrifice" have just one meaning!
-
The Golden Feather hates the bloodspeakers since they are nasty people worshipping blood and commiting sacrifices (and most likely dancing with the blood in all horrid shapes and forms!).
Er, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you perhaps confusing the Bloodspeakers with the Blood Cult? Of course, you might be doing that on purpose...
-
On purpose? Obviously.
But I also never made any effort to demystify this view. They hate us, then we just "hate" then as well.
-
Interesting, after all you are very peaceful with Sint, a realm known for his attempts to not just make peace with the creatures, but also push them to destroy another realms. But who cares since you can hold strong allies!? ;)
It's funny to see a biased view about the Bloodspeakers. Mostly everything is fruit of the common ignorance, but very funny. Then I will not try to change it. Instead, let's dance covered in blood!!! After all, the word "sacrifice" have just one meaning!
Sint was indeed a very strategic alliance rather than anything else, though we have become political and "personal" friends (or something like that)... obviously there is however no friendliness on the theological level.
As for ignorance, it is certainly needed to keep this going... OGF and Thalmarkin (or well, at least Fingolfin) has no plans at all to "get to know" or understand the bloodspeakers, simply because they are already considered evil and thats that. If we wanted to we could try to improve the relations, but that wouldnt be fun at all :p
Er, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you perhaps confusing the Bloodspeakers with the Blood Cult? Of course, you might be doing that on purpose...
Well, we dont confuse them per say, but lets say we bunch them up together and treat them more or less the same. It could be solved, but only if someone acctually wanted it, but again... wheres the fun in that!
-
I must say it was not intentional. When I created the religion I didn't knew the religious history of Beluaterra. I knew nothing about the Blood Cult and yet the names can be associated. I also knew nothing about the Old Gods, and yet we call our gods such way.
The collective spirit came into my head and did everything by itself, it seems. But we are unique. And the antagonism with the Golden Feather is fun enough to not think about immediate changes. They see us as bloody worshipers dancing with the dead skin of fresh corpses. We see them as... unh ... sissies!? No offense ;)
-
I've definitely never really bothered to find out what the Bloodspeakers are really about. Askarn at some point declared them evil - I think after some study but I could be wrong - a little propaganda did the rest and since then there's been quite some conflicts between Melhed and Thalmarkin that either involve the OGF and the Bloodspeakers directly or through the underlying animosity of characters. It's been really fun from where I'm sitting.
I also enjoy the varied stance that the OGF has with the Daishi. It may be sort of a leftover of a less doctrinal based religious game but pretty much the exact opposite has happened than what happened with the Bloodcult.
Daishi nobles are generally held in high regard by OGF's nobles I think. The fact that when Hetland fell, they swarmed to the OGF realms of OG and Thal, integrated very well and built good personal relationships helped as well of course. It's hard to hate a guy you like so much. :)
We're actually planning a near to complete overhaul of the Order of the Golden Feather at the moment...It'd be nice to get the two religions a little more in sync at the same time. Both can definitely use some fixin' up anyway. :)
-
Sacrifices are fine, as long as it's followers of the Golden Feather or of Daishi that are on the altar.
-
We make no distinction in our sacrifices. ;D
The Bloodspeakers have to grow, but I'm too much lazy to work on it how it deserve. Yeux never was my favorite char and it's hard to work in every continent with the same energy I work on the East Continent with my favorite char since I joined the game. Something I need to learn...
-
We make no distinction in our sacrifices. ;D
The Bloodspeakers have to grow, but I'm too much lazy to work on it how it deserve. Yeux never was my favorite char and it's hard to work in every continent with the same energy I work on the East Continent with my favorite char since I joined the game. Something I need to learn...
I noticed, Pierre seems to be the only one motivated to spread and also enhance the faith(it still lacks alot, even though the basic concepts are cool).
-
But Pierre is also responsible for much of our bad reputation. Every coin have two sides. :)
I need to find more time to work. A fact.
-
But Pierre is also responsible for much of our bad reputation. Every coin have two sides. :)
I need to find more time to work. A fact.
What do you think i am trying to do?
Melhed has been very boring.
Beluaterra as a whole seems to freeze up a bit.
Time to shake things up starting at home, dont you think?
-
Yes, I agree. And that was not a complaint ;)
-
Back on topic about Caelum:
Onamont and Edmundus have dueled. Onamont's won but failed to kill Edmundus. Even so, he considers the point of honor settled.
Do we have an ETA on getting a new ruler in place?
-
The election should resolve tonight at the turn change. Quaestor Tsumiki Tenla seems to have the most public support (which is to say that she has public support), but it isn't easy to predict who will actually attract votes.
-
Sounds like the next duel will be between Edmundus and Ralina, then. :)
I tend to agree that Tsumiki will win.
Also, Old Grehk is pushing strongly for Victus to be put back on the throne. Sint and Nothoi disagree.
/me hopes that war will commence soon.
-
There's a hell of a lot of variables dancing around when it comes to war. I don't know nearly enough about where most of them stand to have any predictions, but if I'm Old Grehk my first question is, "what would Thalmarkin do."
-
There's a hell of a lot of variables dancing around when it comes to war. I don't know nearly enough about where most of them stand to have any predictions, but if I'm Old Grehk my first question is, "what would Thalmarkin do."
And the question that the Kin of Thalmar would first ask themselves is "how will Melhed use this opportunity to come after us?". That's pretty much the calculus for us. Nobody believes they're willing to abide by the present terms.
-
So I guess the next question (bar the possibility of a war to restore Victus) is who will be standing for Justicarius? Alaron certainly will.
-
Whoever it is damn well better remove Onamont's ban.
Or else he will find you and kill you with his honor. Not because of his honor... no... he will kill you with his honor.
-
Whoever it is damn well better remove Onamont's ban.
Or else he will find you and kill you with his honor. Not because of his honor... no... he will kill you with his honor.
Keep your honour in your sheath, good sir. Or your pants. Or both. ;D
-
Tsumiki comes from Riombara, as well. If Old Grehk tries to force her to step down, could Riombara become involved?
-
We advised Tsumiki to run. Well, I did. In case she were to be elected I'm sure Old Grehk would not think to impose their ruler on Caelum. After all, you know, Tsumiki is the Republic's Explorer!
-
We advised Tsumiki to run. Well, I did. In case she were to be elected I'm sure Old Grehk would not think to impose their ruler on Caelum. After all, you know, Tsumiki is the Republic's Explorer!
Yeah, you were not the only one...
Tsumiki might be a good ruler...I think OG would accept them on the position.
We now just need Thalmarkin to accept her, then OG would be alone on the "put Victus back" decision.
-
If Sint and Nothoi accept her, I would imagine Thalmarkin won't care. They couldn't even find anyone willing to come and be a lord. And weren't they supposed to appoint the banker? (I don't remember.)
At that point, it will be Sint/Nothoi on one side against OG on the other. Then what will OG do? Attack and fight a war against Sint and Nothoi?
-
If Sint and Nothoi accept her, I would imagine Thalmarkin won't care. They couldn't even find anyone willing to come and be a lord. And weren't they supposed to appoint the banker? (I don't remember.)
At that point, it will be Sint/Nothoi on one side against OG on the other. Then what will OG do? Attack and fight a war against Sint and Nothoi?
I think OG should fight them. I mean Sint has a miserable military and Nothoi isn't any better. Why not crush them both and build Caelum II and Caelum III as well?
-
Sounds like fun to me. I think they should go for it.
-
As long as they are polite, it does not matter to Onamont.
-
Thalmarkin was to appoint the General, as we did in Traemlin. The lords was indeed more tricky, especially since OG already stole the 2 ones who wanted to go.
It seems also that the rulers are coming to some agreement of how to accept Caelum. Indeed Thalmarkin does not really care all that much, but I have (in perhaps a bit too veiled words) shown that I did not wish OG to attack or anything similar. I thought myself quite explicit in my wording, but it doesnt seem to have gone all the way through.
As well, kinda funny for Fingolfin, elder of the OGF and uncle to the leader of the OGF, to be asked by Sint ruler if we have any problems with the herectics of the OGF... let the fun begin!
-
Booyah! Caelum officially wins its freedom, and right of self-rule!
-
Booyah! Caelum officially wins its freedom, and right of self-rule!
Onamont wants back in.
Let him in.
Or he will consider himself dishonored, and kill you all.
-
He´s going back in, just need to wait for the new judge.
-
As soon as Tsumiki gets back to the capital, she will open judge and banker to elections. I imagine lifting Onamont's ban will be one of the first things that the new judge does.
-
That and probably opening the realm's laws up to a debate, most likely. Especially regarding dueling.
-
Elections?
Pff... appoint somebody. It's a monarchy isn't it?
-
Yep. But Tsumiki's platform included elected judges and bankers. Not sure if it will be quarterly or monthly.
-
Elections?
Pff... appoint somebody. It's a monarchy isn't it?
Thinking more on a OOC level, even if the realm is a monarchy I think it is good to have judge and banker elections.
This gives opportunity to everyone on the realm to be part of the council, instead of having the same nobles on the same position controlling the realm for years.
Unless off course there is a retirement feature that makes a char step down when he reaches a certain age to prevent rulers with +150 years.
-
Yep. But Tsumiki's platform included elected judges and bankers. Not sure if it will be quarterly or monthly.
Well, elections are a chance for people to make derogatory comments... which means more chances for Onamont to get offended.
I guess I can live with that.
-
You could always do both: appoint a judge to lift Vellos' ban, while a referendum runs for the next judge. Whoever gets elected automatically replaces whoever was appointed.
-
Yes, It is a Monarchy and I think people are forgetting that fact.
-
Pfft... We know it's a monarchy. Victus is the one that forgot, and tried to run it as a tyrannical dictatorship. A Monarch rules with the consent and support of his nobility. He does not have carte blanche to treat his nobles like !@#$. The nobles that joined the realm expected to be participants in the creation of a new realm, not spectators. Now, maybe he would have changed a bit, and allowed the nobility to have some say in how the realm was run. But maybe not. We know, OOC, that Victus was intent on disenfranchising at least one lord, possibly more.
There are quite a few players in this game that are not content to sit back and allow a realm council to run pell-mell over their rights. There just happened to be several of them that all went to Caelum. As a result of his decisions and policies, Victus lost the support of his nobility. There were 16 nobles in the realm. Only 2 spoke up in defense of Victus. One was the disgraced ex-judge, and one was the general. One duke was outright threatening secession and rebellion over the ruler's actions, and the other made no public statement either way. The banker was disgruntled over the ruler's actions, but didn't feel that she could say anything so long as Victus was still in office.
Victus was in a very dicey situation from the start. He had no clear mandate to rule from his nobility. None of them had any personal loyalty to him, and not a single one actually chose him to be the ruler. The nobles came from widely varied backgrounds, and there were obvious religious differences and tensions from the start. He should have been walking softly for the first several months, instead of strutting around with the biggest stick he could find. Two of the rulers that signed the treaty are followers of Hemaism (one had already been treated to Victus' hostile attitude and was doubtless predisposed to believe the worst of him), and it was pretty clear that a third didn't give a damn about what the realm did since they couldn't be bothered to appoint the lords the treaty granted them. So it was obvious that the only one that would care was the ruler of Old Grehk. As soon as Victus started lying about what was going on, it was obvious that he'd lost. Old Grehk was never going to take hostile action against Caelum, or it risked war with both Sint and Nothoi. Then we decided to elect a Riombaran ruler, and sealed the deal.
-
Nice to see you're as delusional as always. Do you always believe OOC what you make yourself believe IC?
-
it's all true, whether you believe it or not.
-
Yes, It is a Monarchy and I think people are forgetting that fact.
How so?
Personally I don't think anyone's forgotten anything. Victus went in one direction with his leadership style, and in the process he precipitated a crisis that almost fractured the realm. The reaction naturally has been for the pendulum to swing the other way. Caelum had a bad experience with an authoritarian Monarch, so now they've placed a much more liberal Monarch on the throne. Lucian certainly didn't care whether the other council positions were elected or not, he just wanted a more reasonable Monarch. One who might demand less and listen more. Tsumiki seemed like the best candidate in that regard.
It's unfortunate that there seem to be some bad OOC feelings over this. Honestly though, Victus clearly made mistakes. If he hadn't, he wouldn't have gotten himself thrown out of office.
-
Nice to see you're as delusional as always. Do you always believe OOC what you make yourself believe IC?
You seem to be taking this personally.
What is your version of events? I'm honestly curious to hear.
-
Yes, It is a Monarchy and I think people are forgetting that fact.
A monarchy is not an excuse for a player that was selected to be the ruler to "play alone" or with just a few selected friends.
In the end, I don't care if it is a monarchy, republic, tyranny, what matters is that everyone in the realm is having fun.
Just look at the French Revolution, you had a monarch that did not wanted to play with others...what did they do? off with his head...
-
My honest opinion is we had a new realm half destroyed, with no OC 'friendships', and with not much to do but kill monsters... a bit boring! (As some players said!)
So some players chose to throw down the ruler for fun, not for a serious OC reason, but because they were bored. (as this is not a SMA island, nothing bad about it). I don't think there were a OC real reason to do it... but because it was the fun thing to do.
Of course We can make all kind of OC reasons, more or less coherent, but IMHO are only 'alibis'.
The problem in this 'matter' is because there is two ways to play (or RP) this game:
1-You make whatever you want with your characters, and then, you look for an OC reason for it. (or not)
2-You make your characters to do the things you think your medieval-noble would do. Not matter you would want him to do other things.
I think both are right, (and both have their good and bad points) but sometimes they don't mix too well.
-
I disagree with you. This was not because "we were bored".
For me, speaking personally, the biggest issue was that we went to a realm to help create it. We were shut out and told to be silent by the ruler. As if we had no saying on what was going to happen on the realm. You add the "you have to swear your loyalty to me" part...and that is it. Protests against the ruler. Not because I am bored, witch I wasn't, but because I, IC (and OOC later), was not treated with respect, and was being shut out of something I wanted to be a part of.
-
The problem in this 'matter' is because there is two ways to play (or RP) this game:
1-You make whatever you want with your characters, and then, you look for an OC reason for it. (or not)
2-You make your characters to do the things you think your medieval-noble would do. Not matter you would want him to do other things.
I would rather see it as a two-way process:
1. You create your character with whatever specific character flaws or virtues he may have. Some will be psychotic, some courageous, some paranoid, some competent. You can do that for completely OOC reason.
2. From then on, your character should act only with IC reasons, given the background you have decided he would have. Of course, he's a medieval noble, but not all characters are just lambda-type medieval nobles.
If you want your character to do something which may be a bit on the weird side, it's fine, as long as it is consistent with how your character as acted in the past and will in the future.
-
I'm sorry, Poliorketes, but you are truly mistaken. There was no "I'm bored, let's have fun" in this at all. Most everyone's IC motivations are clearly visible IG in the messages they sent. There are, of course, some characters who came into the realm with an agenda. Nothing wrong with that, as long as it is for IC reasons. This realm was a powder keg of conflicting personalities waiting to explode. The heavy-handed way it was ruled, combined with the judge's behavior, was more than enough to set it off.
@naidraug: there's nothing wrong with an oath of fealty. Not many people actually RP it in game, but it is something that would have happened. Ralina's objecctions to it were two-fold. First, it was extremely over-reaching, binding the characters entire family to the realm for all time. I don't think that's normal. Secondly, Victus refused to state what his part of the oath would be in return. He said "you'll find out later." That's just not acceptable. You don't demand an oath of service from someone and then tell them that they'll find out later what they get in return. These are done in a solem ceremony.
-
@naidraug: there's nothing wrong with an oath of fealty. Not many people actually RP it in game, but it is something that would have happened. Ralina's objecctions to it were two-fold. First, it was extremely over-reaching, binding the characters entire family to the realm for all time. I don't think that's normal. Secondly, Victus refused to state what his part of the oath would be in return. He said "you'll find out later." That's just not acceptable. You don't demand an oath of service from someone and then tell them that they'll find out later what they get in return. These are done in a solem ceremony.
yes I agree there is nothing wrong with them, what I meant to say was the way it was presented. As if the oath was a way to make us do what ever he wanted to. Instead of something of honor, sounded more like a validation for the character to tell us to shut up and obey.
-
Ahhh, I see what you mean.
-
Anyway. The elections have started and thus far this is how they look:
Judge: Alaron, Henzo, Gaius, Edmundus
Banker: Alaron, Gawain, Gaius (by bug, it seems)
Alaron, Henzo and Gaius seem to have similar policies - exonerating Onamont, consulting on laws and implementing a court (at least for Alaron and Gaius). Edmundus is seemingly running as a protest against Alaron seeing as he refused to duel a mere knight over something trivial.
As for the banker, both Alaron and Gawain have said they will be looking at trade agreements with other realms in order to feed their lands. Nothing really to tell them apart at the moment.
Place your bets, place your bets! I'm going with Gaius for Judge, and Alaron for Banker.
-
Mine is the same as Ravier: Alaron banker and Gaius judge.
-
Lemme tell ya– life as a rogue is very lonely.
-
Lemme tell ya– life as a rogue is very lonely.
So join another realm for a few days.
-
So join another realm for a few days.
Meh, not worth the effort. And that would constitute an admission that the ban was legitimate, and require Onamont to provide an oath of fealty, a thing he does not lightly do.
As far as Onamont is concerned, Edmundus did not legally ban him, and he remains a noble of Caelum, he merely awaits the proper administrative correction of the matter.
-
And that "administrative correction" has been applied by your new Justicarius. Who won by a single vote.. closest election I've been in, the last couple were whitewashes. :P
Now, time to get used to being a Judge. Always wanted to be one. ;D
-
Aaaaand Onamont is back.
Now we give him Mokut.
-
Aaaaand Onamont is back.
Now we give him Mokut.
Good luck with that. Victus is more or less untouchable where he is. Let's see:
1. He's a Duke, so even if you manage to get him out of the lordship by stabbing him or some such, he can just reappoint himself.
2. He's a Royal, so he's un-bannable.
3. He's a priest, so good luck getting to a point where you can auto da fe him.
4. Mokut is a rural region, so there will be no starving him out.
....
So yeah, if he decides not to step out of the Duchy or the Lordship when asked, what, exactly, are we going to do about it?
-
We can't remove him, but we can ostracize him.
-
We can't remove him, but we can ostracize him.
Well that, I am sure, will probably happen. It's a shame that you can't force Dukes to secede anymore. Though I guess we could just hand the region to Nothoi, dissolve the Duchy, then get it back.
-
We can't remove him, but we can ostracize him.
Already been done. Don't give a damn. After all, you're a bunch of oath-breaking traitors. Well most of you.
-
Already been done. Don't give a damn. After all, you're a bunch of oath-breaking traitors. Well most of you.
Pretty sure no one took any oaths about not speaking their minds :)
What will Victus do now? Is he looking for a second act in Caelum, or somewhere else?
-
Oh, he's going to make sure most of you lose your land, titles, and possibly lives.
-
Oh, he's going to make sure most of you lose your land, titles, and possibly lives.
Ah. In Caelum then. :D Sounds like fun.
-
Woohoo! Round 2, coming up!
-
Giving away Mokut would solve several problems. We don't need it, as we will already produce a huge excess of food. So getting rid of the extra duchy would be quite easy. Order him to step down as duke and move the region to a different duchy. If he refuses, you give away his region and dissolve the duchy. Nothoi gets a free region, and that's the end of the problem.
-
Giving away Mokut would solve several problems. We don't need it, as we will already produce a huge excess of food. So getting rid of the extra duchy would be quite easy. Order him to step down as duke and move the region to a different duchy. If he refuses, you give away his region and dissolve the duchy. Nothoi gets a free region, and that's the end of the problem.
Sounds like a plan.
-
Giving away Mokut would solve several problems. We don't need it, as we will already produce a huge excess of food. So getting rid of the extra duchy would be quite easy. Order him to step down as duke and move the region to a different duchy. If he refuses, you give away his region and dissolve the duchy. Nothoi gets a free region, and that's the end of the problem.
whaaa? you can´t give us the region no no no...we don´t need it. Already have 2 lord-less regions...
-
*drum roll*
And the evil S*nt**n plot continues... :P
-
whaaa? you can´t give us the region no no no...we don´t need it. Already have 2 lord-less regions...
Nono, it comes with a Lord. You're welcome to keep him.
-
And the evil S*nt**n plot continues... :P
HA HA HA HA HA HA!!! Those evil Sintians will DESTROY CAELUM!
The realm-wide referendum, started by an ex-Riombaran, passed in favor of dissolving the third duchy, by a vote of 14 to 4. (You didn't realize we had so many Ex-Sintians, did you?!) All other region lords have left the duchy (only one was left, the rest having left during the protest campaign), and the ruler has officially, and publicly, asked Victus to step down both as duke and as lord of Mokut, so the duchy can be dissolved, and the region returned to the duke to which it belongs.
-
Nono, it comes with a Lord. You're welcome to keep him.
Well if it comes with a lord...then...no...don´t want this lord either.
-
HA HA HA HA HA HA!!! Those evil Sintians will DESTROY CAELUM!
The realm-wide referendum, started by an ex-Riombaran, passed in favor of dissolving the third duchy, by a vote of 14 to 4. (You didn't realize we had so many Ex-Sintians, did you?!) All other region lords have left the duchy (only one was left, the rest having left during the protest campaign), and the ruler has officially, and publicly, asked Victus to step down both as duke and as lord of Mokut, so the duchy can be dissolved, and the region returned to the duke to which it belongs.
Referendums in a Monarchy, what next. Hell, you should have just had a rebellion and reformed as a democracy if the ruler needs to go seeking consent on every single decision within the realm.
You peacefully protested Victus out and elected a new ruler, fair enough. But I think you are going too far now with trying to get him to step down and give up his lordship and dukeship. On the surface, it just looks like the same opportunists who wanted him out as ruler are looking to remove further opposition and consolidate their control further. I have had my fair share of issues with lords and dukes, so I am all too familiar with these situations. I reckon if those in Caelum and the new ruler keep pressing on this matter, its not going to bode well and going to make moving forward and building the realm that much harder.
As for your comment "Those evil Sintians will DESTROY CAELUM!", you said it, not me ;)
-
The same opportunists? Yeah... all 14 of the ones who voted for disbanded the duchy... they're all opportunists.
I'm sorry, but you *really* don't understand the extent to which Victus alienated nearly the entire realm. Of the four that voted to keep the third duchy, one was certainly Victus, one was Edmundus, and a third would be Traemlin (the general). The disgraced ruler, the disgraced judge, and the ruler's lone vocal supporter. Not sure who the last would be ,but I could probably make a guess if I had to.
So, what do the other 14 nobles, err... "opportunists", get out of kicking Victus out of his duchy? It's not like this opens up any opportunities for them, does it? In fact, it reduces the opportunities, as there will be one less duchy, and less dukes to suck up to in order to get a lordship.
While normally I would agree that too many referendums would be against the spirit of a monarchy, we have a special situation here. The formation of a realm needs to allow all of the nobility the opportunity to participate and have their voice heard. It looks like Tsumiki is smart enough to understand that. Once she has some time under her belt, and built up the trust of the nobility, she can begin to be more autocratic, if she desires. After all, she has a mandate from the nobility to rule the realm.
And who knows, maybe Caelum will end up as a different beast than a traditional monarchy. Maybe it will be a constitutional or parliamentary monarchy, with an empowered house of lords or something. We don't *have* to be the cookie-cutter monarchy ruling by divine right.
-
Fair enough.
Im not in Caelum, I can only go on the information I am given.
All I am trying to say is. You peacefully removed him as the ruler, you elected a new one.
What is going after him further going to achieve? Caelum is at a fragile stage, you need all the nobles working together for the common good to go forward. Victus wasnt chosen to be ruler for no reason. Frankly, I fail to see what he has done that is so horrible you need to try and remove his lordship and dukeship from him now.
Dont you think its the realms best interest to work together and get on with things rather than create more unrest and tension in the realm?
Thats all I am trying to get across, other things aside :)
-
Fair enough.
Im not in Caelum, I can only go on the information I am given.
All I am trying to say is. You peacefully removed him as the ruler, you elected a new one.
What is going after him further going to achieve? Caelum is at a fragile stage, you need all the nobles working together for the common good to go forward. Victus wasnt chosen to be ruler for no reason. Frankly, I fail to see what he has done that is so horrible you need to try and remove his lordship and dukeship from him now.
Dont you think its the realms best interest to work together and get on with things rather than create more unrest and tension in the realm?
Thats all I am trying to get across, other things aside :)
At this point it's not really about being vindictive so much as it is about undoing/fixing/changing what Victus did that caused everyone to start questioning him to begin with. One of those things, the thing that started the whole fiasco, was his creation of a third duchy, contrary to the terms of the treaty. Tsumiki, perhaps wisely, ran for ruler on a platform that included voting as a realm on whether we wanted to keep the third duchy since that was a major point of contention. We then did so, and the vote was decidedly in favor of dissolving it. That requires Victus to, at the very least, step down as Duke and remove Mokut from the Duchy just as Traemlin has removed Eykfar so that it will be empty and can be dissolved.
Tsumiki has made it clear that he is welcome to stay in the realm so long as he plays nice. This is a clear moment where Victus has a choice. He can respect the result of the referendum and Tsumiki's command, or he can defy both. If he does, that is when we would potentially actually discuss what we can do to remove him from power IC, which so far as I know no one in Caelum is currently contemplating. I discussed it here because I believe it is very likely that Victus will refuse to step down, in which case forcing him out will be, as I pointed out, extremely difficult. It's not a foregone conclusion, however. He could surprise me. If he does, then all of this discussion will be moot because we'll likely leave him alone and afford him an opportunity to patch things up with the rest of the realm.
Honestly though, it doesn't sound like that's what's going to happen.
-
In all honesty, I understand what you're saying, and you may be right. As far as IC goes... Stability be damned! This is a matter of principles!
Yes, it is obvious that Victus was chosen for a good, from OG and CoH's viewpoint, (and religious) reason. That also make him a prime target for a religious zealot. (And, fwiw, Ralina has said absolutely nothing about the duchy since Victus was removed. She is not driving this in any way.) Not to mention that with the prevailing opinion against Victus now, it makes a good time to go after him, and get someone who has such a bad image out of such a strong position of power, to which most of the realm feels he has no right.
It may go smoothly, it may explode. But it will be intteresting. Caelum will not be just another boring realm for at least the next few weeks.
-
At this point it's not really about being vindictive so much as it is about undoing/fixing/changing what Victus did that caused everyone to start questioning him to begin with. One of those things, the thing that started the whole fiasco, was his creation of a third duchy, contrary to the terms of the treaty. Tsumiki, perhaps wisely, ran for ruler on a platform that included voting as a realm on whether we wanted to keep the third duchy since that was a major point of contention. We then did so, and the vote was decidedly in favor of dissolving it. That requires Victus to, at the very least, step down as Duke and remove Mokut from the Duchy just as Traemlin has removed Eykfar so that it will be empty and can be dissolved.
Tsumiki has made it clear that he is welcome to stay in the realm so long as he plays nice. This is a clear moment where Victus has a choice. He can respect the result of the referendum and Tsumiki's command, or he can defy both. If he does, that is when we would potentially actually discuss what we can do to remove him from power IC, which so far as I know no one in Caelum is currently contemplating. I discussed it here because I believe it is very likely that Victus will refuse to step down, in which case forcing him out will be, as I pointed out, extremely difficult. It's not a foregone conclusion, however. He could surprise me. If he does, then all of this discussion will be moot because we'll likely leave him alone and afford him an opportunity to patch things up with the rest of the realm.
Honestly though, it doesn't sound like that's what's going to happen.
My whole problem is, the treaty doesnt say Caelum cant have a 3rd duchy or that it must only have 2 duchies as specific decree. Because it makes no mention of those things, I dont think it was fair to condemn Victus over it.
ICly, I can see your points, but I also believe because Victus made a 3rd duchy and condemning him for it, the reaction was all just wrong.
Show me where in the treaty where it says he cant and I will shut up about it :)
PS: If we really want to get picky about the treaty, I will also remind you that is says OG gets to select the ruler and Nothoi gets to select the Judge. Funny how events have unfolded where it is convenient to disregard certain elements of it and claim other aspects of it to be sacred ;)
-
My whole problem is, the treaty doesnt say Caelum cant have a 3rd duchy or that it must only have 2 duchies as specific decree. Because it makes no mention of those things, I dont think it was fair to condemn Victus over it.
ICly, I can see your points, but I also believe because Victus made a 3rd duchy and condemning him for it, the reaction was all just wrong.
Show me where in the treaty where it says he cant and I will shut up about it :)
PS: If we really want to get picky about the treaty, I will also remind you that is says OG gets to select the ruler and Nothoi gets to select the Judge. Funny how events have unfolded where it is convenient to disregard certain elements of it and claim other aspects of it to be sacred ;)
This is all moot. It's not that they are any longer forced to abide by the treaty but that no one agreed to a third duchy and they merely see it as Victus being greedy.
-
My whole problem is, the treaty doesnt say Caelum cant have a 3rd duchy or that it must only have 2 duchies as specific decree. Because it makes no mention of those things, I dont think it was fair to condemn Victus over it.
ICly, I can see your points, but I also believe because Victus made a 3rd duchy and condemning him for it, the reaction was all just wrong.
Show me where in the treaty where it says he cant and I will shut up about it :)
PS: If we really want to get picky about the treaty, I will also remind you that is says OG gets to select the ruler and Nothoi gets to select the Judge. Funny how events have unfolded where it is convenient to disregard certain elements of it and claim other aspects of it to be sacred ;)
That was indeed the issue that started everything, but that only led several nobles to question what Victus was doing, not protest him. Events certainly escalated from there into something much bigger, but honestly that is as much Victus's fault as anyone's. By the time he got protested out of office, it wasn't about the treaty anymore, it was about all the other things Victus had said and done as a result. I don't think the treaty itself was mentioned in any of the protests.
This is all moot. It's not that they are any longer forced to abide by the treaty but that no one agreed to a third duchy and they merely see it as Victus being greedy.
Not exactly... Maybe one or two nobles thought that way at first, but not enough to get Victus protested out of office. I guess you had to be there to really appreciate the progression of events. As I said though, by the end it really had very little to do with the third duchy or the treaty. That was just the pebble that started the avalanche.
-
That was indeed the issue that started everything, but that only led several nobles to question what Victus was doing, not protest him. Events certainly escalated from there into something much bigger, but honestly that is as much Victus's fault as anyone's. By the time he got protested out of office, it wasn't about the treaty anymore, it was about all the other things Victus had said and done as a result. I don't think the treaty itself was mentioned in any of the protests.
Not exactly... Maybe one or two nobles thought that way at first, but not enough to get Victus protested out of office. I guess you had to be there to really appreciate the progression of events. As I said though, by the end it really had very little to do with the third duchy or the treaty. That was just the pebble that started the avalanche.
While I surely would have had to been there to fully understand, I was referring to why the duchy dissolve not the protest.
-
My whole problem is, the treaty doesnt say Caelum cant have a 3rd duchy or that it must only have 2 duchies as specific decree. Because it makes no mention of those things, I dont think it was fair to condemn Victus over it.
ICly, I can see your points, but I also believe because Victus made a 3rd duchy and condemning him for it, the reaction was all just wrong.
Show me where in the treaty where it says he cant and I will shut up about it :)
PS: If we really want to get picky about the treaty, I will also remind you that is says OG gets to select the ruler and Nothoi gets to select the Judge. Funny how events have unfolded where it is convenient to disregard certain elements of it and claim other aspects of it to be sacred ;)
Yes the treaty said that Nothoi and OG would choose judge and ruler, and they did.
But if you want to point it out that nothing in the treaty said that they couldn't create a 3rd duchy, nothing said that they couldn't choose a new ruler and judge.
The 3rd duchy thing is something that was pointed out at first, and Victus excuse wasn't good enough to have support of everyone.
But in the end he went out because of the lack of respect he showed us (both IC and OOC).
-
But in the end he went out because of the lack of respect he showed us (both IC and OOC).
The comment he made was after he had been protested. Up until that point he had shown no OOC lack of respect to anyone. So unless there's another OOC reason you protested him out (and there shouldn't even have been one in the first place), that doesn't factor in.
-
The comment he made was after he had been protested. Up until that point he had shown no OOC lack of respect to anyone. So unless there's another OOC reason you protested him out (and there shouldn't even have been one in the first place), that doesn't factor in.
No, there was OOC reasons from banning him. Protested all for IC reasons.
-
So whos going to step in and restore Cealum acording to the signed treaty?
This is along with Melhed/Thalmarking long standing fued a good reason for an intresting war.
Especially combined with each other.
-
So whos going to step in and restore Cealum acording to the signed treaty?
This is along with Melhed/Thalmarking long standing fued a good reason for an intresting war.
Especially combined with each other.
I thought you wanted 1 vs 1? Or was that just back when Thalmarkin could barely field 10k? ;)
-
Thats what i mean, if two wars on two or more different spots start, allies can't help each other.
-
Pretty much everyone has agreed that the treaty was poorly constructed and no one wants it. It was only ever partially implemented, and significant portions of it were ignored from before the realm was ever even founded. Old Grehk was pretty much the only that cared, and the only thing they cared about was keeping Victus in power to as great an extent as possible.
-
Foreign Leave (30 minutes ago)
Tsumiki Tenla, Grand Princess of Caelum has abdicated (automatically, due to inactivity).
??? So much for that...
-
One of the briefest peacetime reigns ever, I think.
-
Yep...
-
Yeah, I talked to the player when the issue was running with all the rulers, he/she told me that it didn't have enough time to continue as a ruler.
-
Brace yourself for Grand Prince Onamont.
-
I would vote for him. It certainly won't be another dull, cookie-cutter realm.
-
I would vote for him. It certainly won't be another dull, cookie-cutter realm.
I predict an equally short reign bloodbath.
-
I predict an equally short reign bloodbath.
lol
Onamont really isn't violent. He gave Edmundus like 4 chances to apologize.
He's just not longwinded. BM characters are always long-winded and like to give tons of details and clever phrases.
Onamont is direct and short, and dislikes long-windedness in others.
As noted in several RPs, Onamont does not employ scribes. Hence brevity. The conflict with Edmundus about killed him, and he was getting so angry because he was having to write so much, and he's not a proficient writer. He told Edmundus and Victus this, if I recall correctly, but they didn't mention it or react, which makes me think they just didn't notice.
-
All hail Supreme-Lord-King-Emperor Onamont!
-
Count 1 endorsement for Onamont.
As Grand Prince, I promise to declare war on Dishonor, Insult, and Shamefulness.
-
Time for goading Onamont into disproving his "not quick to anger" promise...
-
Time for goading Onamont into disproving his "not quick to anger" promise...
:P
Do it.
-
Foreign Leave (30 minutes ago)
Tsumiki Tenla, Grand Princess of Caelum has abdicated (automatically, due to inactivity).
??? So much for that...
Indeed.
Lets hope they make the right choice this time.
-
I'm having fun letting Henzo go into "jerkass" mode.
-
Onamont really isn't violent. He gave Edmundus like 4 chances to apologize. insulted Edmundus like 4 times.
I fixed it for you! 8)
As noted in several RPs, Onamont does not employ scribes. Hence brevity. The conflict with Edmundus about killed him, and he was getting so angry because he was having to write so much, and he's not a proficient writer. He told Edmundus and Victus this, if I recall correctly, but they didn't mention it or react, which makes me think they just didn't notice.
I think I remember something about it... but Edmundus only thought it was a crude way of say: I don't want to resolve this matter, so I don't want to talk.
-
I think I remember something about it... but Edmundus only thought it was a crude way of say: I don't want to resolve this matter, so I don't want to talk.
lol, no. Onamont doesn't really do evasive or political.
If he says, "I don't have scribes," what he means is, "I don't have scribes." And he doesn't. If he meant, "I don't want to resolve this matter," he would say it something like this: "I don't want to resolve this matter." And he did eventually say that after the dispute had gone on a long time, it's true.
But his fury was much exacerbated by the fiendish amount of writing.
And the reading too! Edmundus expected Onamont to find all sorts of conditional clauses and stuff within his letters... pshaw!
-
This should be good. :D
Now I wonder, does the Grand Prince-elect immediately start grinding his axe, or does he try to approach the job with a bit more diplomacy this time around?
-
This is hilarious. :P
I wager he's more diplomatic for a while at least. Alaron should be a fair check.
-
Letter from Victus Draco Tanos (just in)
Message sent to everyone in your realm (18 recipients)
Caelumi,
For those who supported me, I thank you. For those who supported others who sought the throne, my condolences. However let us work on restoring these lands to their historical peaks together.
I ask that the Magistrum Militum, the Justicarius, and the Quaestor approach me with an update on what Caelum needs in their professional opinions. I ask that Dux Moonglum and Dux Gaius also contact me with what they believe their duchies need to thrive.
We shall see about obtaining foreign aid to fund our armies and restore some of our infrastructure. We shall see Caelum rise to greater heights than its predecessors.
Together.
Sir Victus Draco Tanos
Grand Prince of Caelum
Ambassador of Caelum
Duke of the Meshian Plains
Earl of Mokut
Priest of Church of Humanity
Sounds like diplomacy it is, for now. :'( I was looking forward to maniacal, victorious laughter: "You thought you could just toss me aside, like so much chaff? WELL GUESS WHO'S BACK, B*&^$ES!"
The realm is now a powder keg. It can be defused over time, but the question will be whether anything sets it off before that happens.
-
Honestly I expected Gaius to do better than Onamont. Was tempted to reply to Vellos's claims to garner good relations with "As Grand Prince you would have armies come down on our heads while repeatedly insulting foreign leaders while demanding apologizes from them."
See, Victus is a strong adherent to order. He doesn't respond well to a chaotic mob, believing such behavior is unbecoming nobility and civilized people. He believes more can be accomplished through rational discussion than people screaming over each other.
We also have an all-Church of Humanity ruling council.
Who voted for Victus.
Thanks for making my life easier with people my character can trust and rely on. ;D
-
I'm surprised Victus won, personally. I thought Gaius would do better too.
-
Oh, I'm not surprised Victus won, really. I truly did expect to be able to come ahead with other votes split between the others. I was iffy with two candidates, but with three I knew he'd push ahead.
Though, again, I expected it to go Gaius with the second highest, Onamont with the third, and Ravenice in last. No offense to Znowii's alt, but Ravenice isn't exactly the most... Proactive seeming. Especially compared to a Duke and, well, Onamont.
-
Meh; I thought Alaron and Ventus would vote for Onamont. And Traemlin too. If any of them swung for Victus, that would have been about enough.
-
Thing is (if anyone remembers Alaron's days on Dwilight) he's a bit of a snake. A politician through and through. The kind of person that I believe Onamont would actually despise if he knew the truth. Still, it now gives us some more fun with Victus. Who knows what will happen? ;D
Ventus, of course, is from Ravier's side of the family and therefore loyal to members of the Church. He's also young and impressionable, a bit like his oldest brother was.
Now, the next big issue: Henzo's use of a scroll in Sint...
-
Now, the next big issue: Henzo's use of a scroll in Sint...
Do we know which scroll?
-
Do we know which scroll?
It seems to have been one of the summoning scrolls, based (ICly) on the battle report from Gihcelert that we got this turn - and (OOCly) by the fact that Gustav admitted to it in the scrolls thread.
-
It seems to have been one of the summoning scrolls, based (ICly) on the battle report from Gihcelert that we got this turn - and (OOCly) by the fact that Gustav admitted to it in the scrolls thread.
That horde in Gihalcert was a summoned one? It was a lot smaller than I expected. Didn't even scratch us.
-
So, Caelum is using scrolls in Sint and Melhed is trying to use scrolls in Nothoi... are thalmarkin the only ones trying them at home? :)
As well... this ought to spice up the situation a but... Victus doesnt like hemaism very much, Sint and Nothoi does... while again OG does not. This might be possible to cause some fun, while Melhed runs out of excuses for ignoring Thalmarkins taunts. If only there was a western war I hope Melhed would accept a 1-1 war... unless someone where to steal the fun :p
-
This is an outcome I did not expected. With all the protests that toke him out of office, I guess I forgot to count on the church members.
One thing I can not understand is Ravenice running, after all the warnings of the relative on other realm ruler council. If it wasn't for that I think Onamont might have won.
Well it will be fun anyway...
[edit]: that is if he does not start to do everything on his own again.
-
Hmm... prepare to be bored. :(
-
Hmm... prepare to be bored. :(
yaaay... :-\
-
I could always challenge him to a death duel...
-
Good luck with that.
-
So, Caelum is using scrolls in Sint and Melhed is trying to use scrolls in Nothoi... are thalmarkin the only ones trying them at home? :)
As well... this ought to spice up the situation a but... Victus doesnt like hemaism very much, Sint and Nothoi does... while again OG does not. This might be possible to cause some fun, while Melhed runs out of excuses for ignoring Thalmarkins taunts. If only there was a western war I hope Melhed would accept a 1-1 war... unless someone where to steal the fun :p
Report from Henzo Kuriga (30 minutes ago)
You may have heard of a scroll being used in the Sintian region of Gihalcert, Emperor Micheal. If you have not, I wish that it be known that yes, I did use such a scroll of summoning. However, it was at the previous ruler's command, enforced by the judge by threat of banishment and execution if I were to be brought in front of him again without having used the scroll. Soon you will see yet another scroll be used, again inside Sintian lands. It will be near the Nothoi border, as Nothoi has turned our realm into a puppet. The judge will deny any fault of the realm and use me as a scapegoat, claiming I am a isolated rogue noble. That is a lie, merely buying time as the second noble prepares to use his scroll, Nothoi slowly building up their forces and preparing to invade Sint. I highly doubt they would do such treachery alone, but beyond what I have told you, I can only hazard wild guesses, since much of the plans are on a need to know basis.
Sir Henzo Kuriga
Baron of Hcallow
Would possibly be interesting if Henzo wasn't trying to pin it on others.
Hmm... prepare to be bored. :(
It's pronounced "do your jobs". Prepare to do your jobs.
I could always challenge him to a death duel...
"So you are challenging an unarmed priest to a duel to the death? How honorable and brave of you. Did you stomp in the head of a chained up puppy before issuing the challenge too? Was that before or after its teeth were removed so it could not bite your heels?"
-
Would possibly be interesting if Henzo wasn't trying to pin it on others.
Yes it would. I really don't see how this would also cause war between Nothoi and Sint, besides, if we had made Caelum a puppet realm Victus would not have been re-elected, and things there would be a lot more different.
-
Now, now. Things don't always go to plans in puppet realms. ;P
Though I'd have viewed "the previous ruler" more as a potential puppet for Riombara than Sint or Nothoi.
-
I would be surprised if Fleugs even knew there was problems in caelum :)
-
Nah if it were to make it a puppet, Scherzer would not do it behind everyone's back, and would be more firm on everything. He is more political than Finan, but not that subtle.
After trying to prevent OG to make Caelum into a puppet, he would never try to do that for himself. His honor means too much for him to betray those he considers friends.
Idk, the previous ruler could have been puppet from anyone, it was the first ruler of the player, and he did asked for opinion and feedback a lot, with the right push, any realm could have taken control.
-
It's pronounced "do your jobs". Prepare to do your jobs.
Ther's this false dichotomy that a lot of people try to paint that nobles can't both write letters or disagree with the leaders, while still doing their jobs. "Stop talking, and concentrate on repairing the realm!" That's patently ridiculous. I think (pardon me if I'm mis-remembering, Gustav) Henzo was pushing this position pretty hard during the protests. It takes maybe a minute or two to read messages and click the Hold Court button, and then what? If we held to that philosophy, the realm would be in exactly the same condition it is now, but nearly dead from a boring play style.
During the entire episode, no one shirked their duty, or failed to do their jobs. Everything continued to get done, with the exception of one minor episode of Heen going hungry, which was immediately corrected.
As for the use of the scroll... lame. Sorry, Gustav, but where the hell did that come from? At the very least, that is so not believable as to be ridiculous.
-
"So you are challenging an unarmed priest to a duel to the death?"
That's why they have champions to duel for them. Simply being a priest is not a perfect shield from having to conduct yourself with noble behavior. They still have to answer for their words and actions.
-
Hmm... prepare to be bored. :(
I don't know, seems like there's some intrigue going on. Besides, we'll see how long Victus can keep the peace :) I don't know if that character is constitutionally able to suffer being challenged, so we'll see what happens the first time someone questions something he does.
If he surprises me then honestly things won't necessarily be much different than they would have been with Tsumiki on the throne. Either way, we've got a long road ahead of us while our regions slowly become productive enough to support infrastructure, and then we have to build said infrastructure, and then, maybe, we might actually be ready to fight something.
-
Would possibly be interesting if Henzo wasn't trying to pin it on others.
It's pronounced "do your jobs". Prepare to do your jobs.
"So you are challenging an unarmed priest to a duel to the death? How honorable and brave of you. Did you stomp in the head of a chained up puppy before issuing the challenge too? Was that before or after its teeth were removed so it could not bite your heels?"
You make me sad.
-
You make me sad.
If I could be bothered, I'd post a picture of Angry/Grumpy Cat saying "Good". =P
-
This might be possible to cause some fun, while Melhed runs out of excuses for ignoring Thalmarkins taunts. If only there was a western war I hope Melhed would accept a 1-1 war
Out of excuses? We're not giving excuses, just the truth ;)
So far I haven't seen anything in the letters from Thalmarkin that can be considered a valid point beyond a very weak attempt with very weak points of someone who wants to fight but don't have excuses nor legitimate reasons to march. My experience in EC now tells me that any creative nonsense may be a reason, but I prefer those reasons really valid. And accuse Melhed of being a Theocracy while all the northern realms have Councils filled with influential religious people is not even reasonable to be valid. Honestly, you are using the wrong kind of taunt with Yeux.
I don't have nothing against 1-1 war, I just doubt it will happen in advantage of Melhed since we don't have allies to call if the situation gets ugly; different than Thalmarkin. Also, Yeux is enjoying his first month as King and trying to fix everything.
You can start a northern war without us, don't worry. You will always have Caelum, lol.
-
Would possibly be interesting if Henzo wasn't trying to pin it on others.
It's pronounced "do your jobs". Prepare to do your jobs.
"So you are challenging an unarmed priest to a duel to the death? How honorable and brave of you. Did you stomp in the head of a chained up puppy before issuing the challenge too? Was that before or after its teeth were removed so it could not bite your heels?"
Excuse me, but I would prefer if you didn't post private IC messages in the forums. You might not take advantage of OOC knowledge, but there's probably someone who will. Please remove the letter from the post in question.
-
Ther's this false dichotomy that a lot of people try to paint that nobles can't both write letters or disagree with the leaders, while still doing their jobs. "Stop talking, and concentrate on repairing the realm!" That's patently ridiculous. I think (pardon me if I'm mis-remembering, Gustav) Henzo was pushing this position pretty hard during the protests. It takes maybe a minute or two to read messages and click the Hold Court button, and then what? If we held to that philosophy, the realm would be in exactly the same condition it is now, but nearly dead from a boring play style.
During the entire episode, no one shirked their duty, or failed to do their jobs. Everything continued to get done, with the exception of one minor episode of Heen going hungry, which was immediately corrected.
As for the use of the scroll... lame. Sorry, Gustav, but where the hell did that come from? At the very least, that is so not believable as to be ridiculous.
The top part is Henzo's opinion, not my own Indirik. What he believes and I believe are two different things. I OOC know that you can just read the messages and click the hold court button to do your job as lord. Henzo doesn't know about any "hold court button", but he does know that ICly, holding court means you take several HOURS out of your day to listen to the problems of others and cast judgement upon said issues.
-
Err. No. It is already being shared with portions of the realm and will be shared with other rulers soon enough. Everyone will know of the letter soon.
Though I will certainly agree with your interpretation of them doing their jobs. People seem to ignore that hour usage isn't ICly instant.
-
The top part is Henzo's opinion, not my own Indirik. What he believes and I believe are two different things. I OOC know that you can just read the messages and click the hold court button to do your job as lord. Henzo doesn't know about any "hold court button", but he does know that ICly, holding court means you take several HOURS out of your day to listen to the problems of others and cast judgement upon said issues.
IC we can say that every lord sets aside at least 6hrs of the day to hold courts, if we consider a 12h day you still have 6h to write letters.
-
Err. No. It is already being shared with portions of the realm and will be shared with other rulers soon enough. Everyone will know of the letter soon.
Though I will certainly agree with your interpretation of them doing their jobs. People seem to ignore that hour usage isn't ICly instant.
Then let it be shared ICly. I don't care how widespread it is ICly, as long as it went that far purely by IC means. I will ask again, remove it from your post.
-
IC we can say that every lord sets aside at least 6hrs of the day to hold courts, if we consider a 12h day you still have 6h to write letters.
Considering the regions are in disrepair, you could also say that they spend time ensuring that everything gets repaired and there is enough food for the region.
-
Everything *is* getting done. The regions are getting food. And everything is in as good a shape as it can be. Yet we demonstrably still have time to write letters. Yes, you *could* say that time is spent doing these things. But you could just as easily say that the lord's staff takes care of these things, too.
-
Indirik, I know these things. Once again, it is my character's opinion, not my own.
-
Anyway.. time to go to court!
-
Or not.
-
Coward! Brigand! Get back here and face justice! :P
-
Coward! Brigand! Get back here and face justice! :P
Onamont will bring him back.
You just watch him and his murderous settings.
-
I don't have a unit...
-
Considering the regions are in disrepair, you could also say that they spend time ensuring that everything gets repaired and there is enough food for the region.
Well not when there is not too many people in the region so you take lets say 2h to inspect the granary, 1h to check repairs, and you still have 3hrs to write letters...you could also add 1.5h to inspect repairs, and 0.5h to inspect the granary and you still would have 1h to write letters.
and to add...Burn the witch!
Bring the traitor back so we can kill it...
-
Yay! I've made my first villain character~
-
Well not when there is not too many people in the region so you take lets say 2h to inspect the granary, 1h to check repairs, and you still have 3hrs to write letters...you could also add 1.5h to inspect repairs, and 0.5h to inspect the granary and you still would have 1h to write letters.
There's way too little sitting back with a cold, strong ale in that schedule of yours.
-
I think it is assumed that all activities are generally conducted *while* consuming large amounts of ale and mead.
-
I think it is assumed that all activities are generally conducted *while* consuming large amounts of ale and mead.
What he said.
-
I don't have a unit...
DAMN YOU FOUL FOUL WITCH!
If anyone is wondering why Onamont is calling Henzo, a male character, a witch:
1. Because I think it's funny
2. He couldn't spell "sorcerer" and "wizard" sounded like a compliment
Well... you don't have a unit.
I can still wander into Hcallow on murderous, just to see what happens.
-
Interesting topic about hours and how they are spent. Erik already had a complaint, but it was: "You cannot work and take care of your correspondence at the same time?"
Forgetting the case of a Lord who writes all his letters by himself, the others have scribes. Even when you're holding courts are likely to consider you can dictated a letter between a complaint and another, especially if the subject is more important than listening to the commoners. Lords also have seneschals, stewards, etc. Following a serious logic, would be unlikely to write a letter in the middle of night, especially an order, but it happens all the time in-game.
-
Interesting topic about hours and how they are spent. Erik already had a complaint, but it was: "You cannot work and take care of your correspondence at the same time?"
Forgetting the case of a Lord who writes all his letters by himself, the others have scribes. Even when you're holding courts are likely to consider you can dictated a letter between a complaint and another, especially if the subject is more important than listening to the commoners. Lords also have seneschals, stewards, etc. Following a serious logic, would be unlikely to write a letter in the middle of night, especially an order, but it happens all the time in-game.
Let's not get into this again... my character's thinking doesn't have to be logical (and by what he's been doing, more than likely isn't).
-
I just read Onamont's string of messages to Folcard and almost fell out of my chair laughing.
-
I just read Onamont's string of messages to Folcard and almost fell out of my chair laughing.
It's making the ruler channel a lot more dramatic (and enjoyable) :D
-
My character, Ralina, will be accompanying Onamont as his second for the duel.
-
It's making the ruler channel a lot more dramatic (and enjoyable) :D
Has Victus had anything to say about it? If so, it's nothing he's shared with Caelum, which is quite surprising to me to be honest.
-
Has Victus had anything to say about it? If so, it's nothing he's shared with Caelum, which is quite surprising to me to be honest.
Folcard is a renowned swordsman.
I would wager he's not interfering because he's betting Folcard can kill Onamont, removing a thorn in his side.
Also: Liara Anaris is the new target, unless Folcard makes an issue of it. Onamont's dispute is with the policy, as personified in the leader, and Folcard's eventual honorable behavior (and subsequent excellent warrior etiquette) mean that he has no particular desire to fight Folcard anymore.
-
Folcard is DEFEATED.
By elections.
Muwahahahahaha.
-
And now Liara won't fight me.
Meh.
-
Looks like Onamont is doomed to live forever. :)
-
And now Liara won't fight me.
Meh.
Um...duh?
She's a priestess, mate. Not to mention an Anaris (who isn't Kenarth).
I'm not sure what you expected ;D
-
A woman of honor, not a cowardly girl. ;)
Draw your sword, or find a champion!
-
A woman of honor, not a cowardly girl. ;)
Draw your sword, or find a champion!
See, now, one of the things that too many people in BattleMaster forget is that dueling isn't something where if you're challenged, you're automatically a coward if you refuse.
Dueling over a point of honour only works if both parties can agree that there's even a point of honour in contention. Liara, first of all, doesn't even know who Onamont is or what his quarrel is with Riombara. He made some vague noises about Riombara's war with Enweil being unjust or something, but...well, being a ruler is all about both being responsible for your realm's actions and not having to personally duel people who find them reprehensible.
That, after all, is what armies are for.
-
See, now, one of the things that too many people in BattleMaster forget is that dueling isn't something where if you're challenged, you're automatically a coward if you refuse.
Ha! A coward's words, if ever I heard them!
being a ruler is all about both being responsible for your realm's actions and not having to personally duel people who find them reprehensible.
Right, you have champions to do it for you.
That, after all, is what armies are for.
Riombara's threatening to invade Caelum! You heard it, right ? You're all my witnesses!
-
...well, being a ruler is all about both being responsible for your realm's actions and not having to personally duel people who find them reprehensible.
That, after all, is what armies are for.
Actually, this is quite anachronistic. Yes, rulers might refuse duels: more often they simply weren't challenged to duels (much like in BM).
But a medieval ruler WAS personally responsible for the actions of the state. There was no non-personal state in the Medieval period. The actions of the sovereign of the French people were personal for the sovereign of the French people. Sovereign immunity is post-Westphalia.
Riombara, of course, is generally an anachronistic place, which is fine: just worth pointing out taht the idea of ruler as anything less than "chief warrior" (at least symbolically, if not actually) is certainly late-Medieval at its earliest, but certainly not the norm until Westphalia. Byzantine Emperors were marching to battle as late as the 1300's, and engaging in actual combat as late as the 1200's. Haradl Godwinson of Saxon England: how does he die? Arrow to the eye: which is only possible if you're, yes, in arrow range.
Feudal lords are chief warriors in general, rulers as much as any others.
-
Feudal lords are chief warriors in general, rulers as much as any others.
And yet we have the Republic and Democracy government types, which don't conform to a truly feudal government. There are so few examples of medieval republics (to say nothing of "Democracies"; I have never been clear on what exactly these are supposed to be in Battlemaster and how they differ from a Republic), but the ones I am aware of (Novgorod, Venice, Genoa, the Hanseatic League) varied in the expected role of their chief executive. Sometimes he was the warleader, but other times he was simply the richest (or shrewdest) merchant or politician around.
-
And yet we have the Republic and Democracy government types, which don't conform to a truly feudal government. There are so few examples of medieval republics (to say nothing of "Democracies"; I have never been clear on what exactly these are supposed to be in Battlemaster and how they differ from a Republic), but the ones I am aware of (Novgorod, Venice, Genoa, the Hanseatic League) varied in the expected role of their chief executive. Sometimes he was the warleader, but other times he was simply the richest (or shrewdest) merchant or politician around.
Venice and Genoa aren't BM republics; they weren't led by nobles, AFAIK. Don't know enough about Hansa to say. Based on my understanding, Novgorod is the best example of a medieval republic that fits with BM models.
-
Venice and Genoa aren't BM republics; they weren't led by nobles, AFAIK.
OK, but then how exactly do you define a BM Republic? The definition has always been exceedingly hazy to me. I tend to regard them as being more along the lines of the Roman Republic than anything else, where a landed patrician class that was roughly comparable to the medieval noble class formed an oligarchy that used democratic processes amongst themselves to decide policy for the Republic.
-
Venice and Genoa aren't BM republics; they weren't led by nobles, AFAIK.
The Venitian patricians were composed of a select few families, and the rights afforded to those families were exercised by the heads of the families. That sounds pretty much like an aristocracy to me. It was different from the frankish type of nobility you saw elsewhere as it derived more directly from Roman law, but there was still a clear differentiation between patrician families and mere commoners.
-
So.. Edmundus has been using scroll after scroll in Caelum which explains why we've had a ton of monsters/undead in our regions. Not only is he a cur, he's now a traitor.
DEATH TO THE TRAITOR! The Inquisitorius will have his head!
-
Wow.
-
And no one noticed before?
-
Apparently not, though of course he may have been exaggerating what he's been doing.
-
I suppose that if you're careful that there is no one around, including adjacent regions, you might be able to get away with it for a long time. What's surprising is that Edmundus had *that* many scrolls to begin with. Where did he get them all? Is he in league with some other realm?
-
I suppose that if you're careful that there is no one around, including adjacent regions, you might be able to get away with it for a long time. What's surprising is that Edmundus had *that* many scrolls to begin with. Where did he get them all? Is he in league with some other realm?
I don't think he actually used that many, or at least that is my suspicion.
-
Me either, but I'll gladly see him burned for witchcraft for all of it.
-
Wasn't he the one casting in Sint too? Or was that someone else?
-
That was someone else. He's in Nothoi last I knew.
-
Hahahaha! My plan of distraction worked perfectly!
-
If he did use a lot of scrolls, then I would like to point out that they are quite underwhelming.
Not once did I think there were any more than an average amount of monsters/undead in Caelum. I think the largest group I saw was about 1000CS. Maybe because he spread them out, rather than concentrate them in one region?
-
If he did use a lot of scrolls, then I would like to point out that they are quite underwhelming.
Not once did I think there were any more than an average amount of monsters/undead in Caelum. I think the largest group I saw was about 1000CS. Maybe because he spread them out, rather than concentrate them in one region?
For every scroll you have a free horde of 15 monsters aprox... ;D
If you use all the scrolls at once probably you will have stronger results, but not more funny! 8)
-
For every scroll you have a free horde of 15 monsters aprox... ;D
If you use all the scrolls at once probably you will have stronger results, but not more funny! 8)
AFAIK, the scrolls stack but do not multiply. I recall Rio doing some extensive experimentation on their own regions not too long ago, and I think their conclusion was that scrolls don't multiply, they're simply additive.
-
AFAIK, the scrolls stack but do not multiply. I recall Rio doing some extensive experimentation on their own regions not too long ago, and I think their conclusion was that scrolls don't multiply, they're simply additive.
Tom keeps hinting otherwise. Perhaps not enough scrolls were used to trigger any additional effect.
-
Try gathering about 50 and use it all on the same region.
-
Try gathering about 50 and use it all on the same region.
That would be quite a lot of scrolls.
-
Or get 60 and do an experiment.
First, use 10 on region A. Then use 20 on region B. And lastly, use 30 on region C. Compare the size of the hordes in each region.
-
Or get 60 and do an experiment.
First, use 10 on region A. Then use 20 on region B. And lastly, use 30 on region C. Compare the size of the hordes in each region.
60 scrolls! Where can I get 60 scrolls?... even 40 will be enough!... I will make the experiment for you!!! ;D
-
Ah! almost forgot!
Edmundus has declared war on Caelum! Only the rendition will spare Caelum of the total destruction!
Again, where can I get 60 scrolls? ;D
-
Yeah... chances are Edmundus will be dead soon if he'll accept a duel challenge.
-
Ah! almost forgot!
Edmundus has declared war on Caelum! Only the rendition will spare Caelum of the total destruction!
Again, where can I get 60 scrolls? ;D
Duel Alaron or Onamont, you coward! ;D
-
Duel Alaron or Onamont, you coward! ;D
Edmundus is deranged, not crazy!... ;D mmm... I don't know if this have any sense! ::)
He believes in -collective duelling-! Him and his 70 boys against anyone who wants to fight them! ;D
-
Edmundus is deranged, not crazy!... ;D mmm... I don't know if this have any sense! ::)
He believes in -collective duelling-! Him and his 70 boys against anyone who wants to fight them! ;D
Meh.
I think we'll just wait for the monsters to get you.
Coward.
-
The Undead hordes from the scrolls are spreading to Northoi-this one is at 1600CS that just appeared.