BattleMaster Community
BattleMaster => Development => Topic started by: Anaris on May 17, 2014, 02:21:37 AM
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So as those of you who've been paying attention know, it's less than a week now until the scheduled opening of the new War Island. I thought it would be a good time to make public some more information about it.
- There will be three realms on the War Island—Taselak, Sandalak, and Ikalak. Adding a fourth realm (Toren) causes too much disruption to the balance of the island, at least for the time being.
- All players will be given a free character slot specifically for use on the War Island. This slot will be non-transferable, and characters for the War Island will remain there for their entire lifetime—no immigration, no emigration, no deportation. Relatedly, it will not be possible to use family gold or contribute to family gold with characters on the War Island.
- All characters on the War Island will be mortal. This means that pretty much anything that can wound you will also have a chance to kill you, and you can die from wounds getting worse.
- There will be no adventurers on the War Island. There will also be no monster or undead spawns. Pure PvP.
- While it will be possible to found a religion on the War Island, priests will not have any options for influencing peasant behaviour. They will essentially function like guilds.
- Since there is no diplomacy on the War Island, there will be no Diplomats or Ambassadors.
- There will be several changes to the amount of time or effort needed to complete various tasks—such as population recovery or running a takeover—and other tweaks designed to make war on the War Island more fast-paced, with less waiting around, and (hopefully) very little region maintenance.
I'm consulting with Tom on just how previous island startups have been run, but for now, I'm planning to handle it like this, based on my memory of the startup of the South-East Island and Dwilight:
- On the 22nd (probably morning US Eastern time), signups will be opened up, with a limit on the number of characters allowed on the island. The limit will be raised gradually to allow a few (dozen) people at a time to create characters there. No turns will be running at this time.
- After a day or two (or once the island has reached what we consider its maximum safe population, which is probably a few hundred characters), referenda will be created in all three realms to elect the first Rulers. Since all characters will be new, exceptions to the usual prestige requirements will, of course, be granted.
- Those referenda will run for 3 days. Once each realm has a Ruler, they can start appointing a Duke each, who can appoint Lords to the starting regions of each realm.
- Turns will begin to run, and travel will become possible, but for another few days, no one will be allowed to leave their realm. This will give everyone some time to build the initial recruitment centers their realms will require.
- Once that period is over, the floodgates will be opened, and everything will be set to "normal" for the War Island. Let the games begin!
Questions are welcome.
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Would sea travel be available on the War Islands?
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Would sea travel be available on the War Islands?
No. There will be no sea zones.
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Will everyone be able to choose the City they start in or will it be randomly appointed on signup? It might be that you'll have clans forming before it even opens.
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Will everyone be able to choose the City they start in or will it be randomly appointed on signup? It might be that you'll have clans forming before it even opens.
Everyone will be able to choose where to start.
I have no problem with groups starting out together in a realm. Any "clan" that tries to actually exclude people—which is what's against the rules in BattleMaster—will quickly find themselves short on nobles and getting their asses kicked by two other realms with plenty of incentive to accept those they won't.
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1) will you be able to transfer realms once started
2) will there be increased gold income and RC recruitment?
3) is there a time limit and/or end game point IE all of 1 realm's regions are captured
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1) will you be able to transfer realms once started
Absolutely.
2) will there be increased gold income and RC recruitment?
Probably, but the exact degree will depend on how things go.
3) is there a time limit and/or end game point IE all of 1 realm's regions are captured
The endgame is two realms being utterly wiped out (no regions).
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I suppose there will be no traders in the WI, but will be infiltrators?
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Traders would be pointless. You can't trade with a realm with which you are at war. And all relations will be war.
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Another question, two questions actually:
1. Would normal H/P restrictions apply on the WI?
2. Would changing class/sub class be possible?
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Another question, two questions actually:
1. Would normal H/P restrictions apply on the WI?
The restrictions for gaining positions will be removed for the initial phase, as it would be impossible for anyone to meet them. Other than that, yes, they will be the same as on any other continent.
2. Would changing class/sub class be possible?
Aside from the restrictions already mentioned, yes, of course.
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Thank you for the clarification!
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I can't wait for this... Keep on refreshing the Account page :P
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I've just created a character in the War Islands and I've encountered this problem:
"You have more active nobles than your limit. You will need to pause a noble or donate before you can proceed."
I can no longer play on any of my characters,
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Same here, created Fen'Harel Windblack on Taselak and now I can't log in to any of my characters
You have more active nobles than your limit.You will need to pause a noble or donate before you can proceed.
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finally
But really, mortality? There were enough people dying on the old WI just because there's more benefit to being a hero.
And no monsters/undead is weird, as well as all the other "streamlining" changes. I don't see the purpose of solving problems that might not exist.
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finally
But really, mortality? There were enough people dying on the old WI just because there's more benefit to being a hero.
And no monsters/undead is weird, as well as all the other "streamlining" changes. I don't see the purpose of solving problems that might not exist.
That's the point isn't it? You don't know if today is your last day, if the coming battle shall be the last one you see... Death lurking at every corner. And only those able to live with all that would be called conquerors. Regarding rogue forces, if you are fighting rogues day and night then when are you going to fight human enemies? South Island is what a true PvP island on BM is called.
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People die when they are killed. YOLO!
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I'm going to watch what I say this time around so I don't get constant Mod warnings for insults, negativity and having a bad attitude! YOLO!
That's a very good idea, Kai. Glad to see you've changed your attitude in your months away from the forums. It's very encouraging.
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Although this is jumping off a negative comment, I'm genuinely interested in what I see as the positive side to it: Will the WI mortality be used as a litmus test for expanding mortality to other continents?
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Although this is jumping off a negative comment, I'm genuinely interested in what I see as the positive side to it: Will the WI mortality be used as a litmus test for expanding mortality to other continents?
It is very unlikely for mortality to be expanded to the other islands. The issue that people had with it in the 4th Invasion was that it was imposed on them thus with a no island no one can claim that but the problem would come back if it was imposed on other islands.
That's not to say its impossible as there have been ways for it not to be imposing yet still expanded to the other islands (seems contradictory, but isn't). I think I will throw a more informative post in June's Newsletter, so look for it there if you are interested.
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I have no plans to expand mortality to any existing continents, for the reasons Penchant outlined.
If it gains a huge following among the player base, then I might change my mind, but at least for now, don't expect it.
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Poor choice of words on my part; we've been over why it wouldn't happen (the way it is on SI, at least) a million times.
My actual question was more of a "Will we take a second look at good ways to implement it (perhaps voluntary or some other non-continent-wide method) if it's popular on SI?"
Even if it's not meant to test people's reactions to mortality for other islands, if the game gets big again and a new continent needs to release, this would be a good experiment for that as well. (I know, that's super far off if at all.)
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Why will there be a maximum size for the war island? I thought this game didn't really have problems with too many players.
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Why will there be a maximum size for the war island? I thought this game didn't really have problems with too many players.
Do you really want each noble to have a weekly income of 10 gold? And absolutely no chance for any players who join after the initial rush to even think about ever getting a Lordship?
If demand continues to grow, I'm perfectly willing to open a second War Island (with the character restrictions set such that you can only have a character on one of them, so the second doesn't just get flooded with the same players as the first...).
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Whats the max character count and what is the number of characters atm?
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Whats the max character count and what is the number of characters atm?
I don't plan on raising it above 300, and I think right now we're around 250.
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Hohoho
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Do you really want each noble to have a weekly income of 10 gold? And absolutely no chance for any players who join after the initial rush to even think about ever getting a Lordship?
I'd like to ask whether at least one other person thinks these are even minimally convincing or relevant.
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I'd like to ask whether at least one other person thinks these are even minimally convincing or relevant.
The first is absolutely convincing and relevant. It's no fun to play with no gold, since gold essentially drives everything in BM.
The second... well, not as much. No room for advancement sucks, but some realms on other islands already keep the same people in power. New characters arriving later may not have any better a shot.
But it's good to know you like to sound bitter with a flimsy reason behind it.
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Ok then, for the first one, if the war island is popular, just tweak until everyone is getting at least 30 gold/wk. Big fights with lots of dudes = great.
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30 gold/week? your knights will have what 10 people following them and need a refit every week?
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30 gold/week? your knights will have what 10 people following them and need a refit every week?
This used to be standard (ok, maybe 40). The current state of the game is literally drowning in gold compared to what it used to be.
And, yes, units of 20-25 men were common with refits every week.
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Yep yep. Back then, if you had more than 35-40 men, pretty much everyone thought you were living way beyond your mean,s or had a rich benefactor. (Unless you were a region lord, which was usually <10% of the realm.)
It would be interesting to see what would happen if an island returned to that state. I can only imagine how many people would be complaining about the lack of gold!
Really, though, the carrying capacity of the island is dependent on the number of available estates that provide acceptable incomes. There were some rumblings that maybe the minimum estate sizes would be changed, either to lower the size in cities, or perhaps to even base it on a minimum number of peasants per estate. *pokes Anaris*
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Less men is better because lower travel times. Estates on WI are a massive pain. Communism was so much better.
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I've always thought hitting past 50 seemed excessive. We are roving bands of soldiers...not armies onto themselves. How many men can you really fit into a brothel when you 'treat them to some entertainment'?
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Are family investments not allowed on the War Island? I can't seem to find the link to do it.
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Are family investments not allowed on the War Island? I can't seem to find the link to do it.
No. Your family can't help you on this island. Neither can you send gold to your family.
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Cren is correct. All family gold connections on the War Island are disconnected. All you get is the first small contribution from your family that all new characters get. So, yes, that means no investments.
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I've always thought hitting past 50 seemed excessive. We are roving bands of soldiers...not armies onto themselves. How many men can you really fit into a brothel when you 'treat them to some entertainment'?
You would be surprised. ;)
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Having to mess with estates in WI is awful.
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Having to mess with estates in WI is awful.
Care to elaborate? Whats the issue particularly with them on WI?
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Just their presence is somewhat annoying. It adds tedium to the war island for both lords and knights.
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Getting rid of estates would take way too much coding. One of the reasons the old war islands were sunk was the problem of maintaining two separate code bases. If had to do that now, this would never have been possible.
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Also, once the realms capture a few more regions, there should be enough spare estates to go around.
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Getting rid of estates would take way too much coding. One of the reasons the old war islands were sunk was the problem of maintaining two separate code bases. If had to do that now, this would never have been possible.
rofl, is all I can say
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rofl, is all I can say
What is so funny about that?
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It's funny because imo, for the purpose of the War Islands, I'd prefer communism, and it can't even be changed back, because it was abandoned when the WI sanked. So it's more that the backpedalling itself is funny (not that it's bad, please continue supporting WI).
To explain, I don't like estates on WI because it creates a lot of internal conflict, which is (bleh) fine for normal islands, but tiresome when you're just looking for fun and slaughter. It also makes attacks on / fortifying with militia in a particular region drain the income of just one lord and a few knights, who are then reliant on gold handouts. This makes the game miserable for them, while everyone else (understandably) avoids the issue. It seems that having your region on the front line should be, if not a fun experience, at least well funded and important, instead of bankrupt.
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The success to a well funded army is contribution of various nobles. If some aren't able to keep up the costs then the wealthy ones should help them. Communism would definitely helpful here in the currently implemented way.
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I won't argue with you that communism fuels the best war machines, so far as this game goes. I agree. What I'm saying is that this requires a lot of code changes. With Tim doing all the coding by himself, separate code bases for specialty island is a luxury we can't afford right now. So you get estates on the war island, unless you want to pay Tim a full time developers salary to work on the game full time. Assuming he'd want to do that.
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I won't argue with you that communism fuels the best war machines, so far as this game goes. I agree. What I'm saying is that this requires a lot of code changes. With Tim doing all the coding by himself, separate code bases for specialty island is a luxury we can't afford right now. So you get estates on the war island, unless you want to pay Tim a full time developers salary to work on the game full time. Assuming he'd want to do that.
Hey, if it's a guarantee of a significant raise over my current job, to do the BM dev work I'm already doing (only moreso), I'll take it ;D
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Why no Toren? 3 realms ensures it's always 2 gank 1. boring. Being a runt doesn't matter in battle royale.
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Why no Toren? 3 realms ensures it's always 2 gank 1. boring.
Because the War Island was designed to have 3 realms on it, not 4.
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Is that a retcon? (I mean because obviously historical fact that WI was designed for 4)
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Is that a retcon? (I mean because obviously historical fact that WI was designed for 4)
Um...no.
Are you not aware that the original South Island and the first South-East Island, at the least, had just 3 realms on them?
The four-realm South Island was a later experiment.
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Fine, 4 is still way better. Use your massive data and see how often Sandalak wins in RISK:WI.
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Fine, 4 is still way better. Use your massive data and see how often Sandalak wins in RISK:WI.
I don't have any "massive data," and I don't have much at all to do with the BM:WI game. That was something completely separate that Tom did on his own.
However, if you're correct that Sandalak is at a disadvantage, that's something that can—and will—be fixed by adjusting the balance of the island's layout, not by adding a fourth realm.
The three-way nature of the island is fully intentional. It means that there can never be an even two-way match until one realm is destroyed. The point of the island is not to have a permanent 2v2 standoff—it is to see who can win.
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That doesn't make sense because it will be a 1v1 after one realm is destroyed.
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That doesn't make sense because it will be a 1v1 after one realm is destroyed.
And it would be a 2v1 or 1v1v1 in the four-realm scenario after one realm was destroyed. That's not really the point here.
Besides, once one realm is destroyed, the odds are quite high that one of the other realms will have managed to take their capital, and a chunk of their other regions, thus giving them a serious advantage over their remaining foe.
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So the intended design is a gank followed by a steamroll.
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So the intended design is a gank followed by a steamroll.
That's entirely up to the players.
In practice, what I have seen on the 3 incarnations of the War Island I have played on is a lot of back-and-forth. There's some 1v1v1, some 2v1, some 1v2, alliances of the moment, sudden betrayals, and all kinds of fun stuff.
If you don't want to play there, that's fine, Kai. In fact, you don't even need to play the game, if none of it is actually fun for you.
Meanwhile, the rest of us will be having a blast playing on the new, 3-realm, estate-ful War Island.
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What Delvin said. +1