BattleMaster Community
BattleMaster => Locals => East Island => Topic started by: Velax on May 11, 2013, 09:45:11 AM
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Sooooo......multis, eh? What's up with that?
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What realm?
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A few, but it seems to be mainly OI that was hit.
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I also clearly want to know what exactly happened that all of those players have been locked.
Can we please see the evidence that the GMs have for those accusations?!
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Talking of multies, Dustole suggested that suspicious characters arrived in Aurvandil shortly after Mendicant's accounts were locked... was any investigation conducted on these new accounts, or did everyone just assume that locking all of that cheater's currents accounts alone would do the job?
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I am personally quite sad but also angry about this, since Shady was my student when he started playing BM and this is not school I teach.
I believe I have raised some great players in BM and I always thought Shady was one of them.
This is really not good day. :(
I hope for the rest of OI that you get your things quickly together, on ruler channel Sirion has thankfully said that you get two weeks to reorganise posts. I hope Nivemus will do the same.
I think this is a fair time to make sure OI players can restructure and organise themselves so they can play the game again without disadvanatge they have now without being guilty themselves.
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The evidence against Shady was even stronger than Mendicant. Mountains of technical data corroborated independently by other players with direct knowledge. We know this definitively. The best analogy is catching an employee stealing from the register, and then going back and checking the video tapes and accounting books for two years and seeing hundreds of instances. To the point about "accusations", they are not. This is the administrative action for what has been definitively proven. We don't share all of the evidence because it would violate the player's privacy and simply provide a roadmap for how to cheat and ruin the experience of hundreds of other players for two years.
EDIT: one thing that can probably be shared without consequence is that it was one main account (Shady's) controlling 7 others. A lot of nobles in OI, a lot in OG. All of them aiding Shady's characters in some way or another. This is all BESIDE the hard, technical, evidence, mind you. So, if Shady continues to protest his innocence to you privately, then I'm very sorry that he's put anyone in such an incredibly awkward position through a selfish decision to lie to his friends. This is why you don't cheat. The longer you get away with it, the greater the consequences when you're caught and the farther the fall. NOBODY enjoys it when this happens.
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As Solari says, evidence will not EVER be provided in cases of multi-accounting. It should be plainly obvious why this is the case. We do not lock accounts on a whim, and prefer to leave questionable cases alone for future checking.
Investigating multi-accounting cases is a very time consuming, demoralizing, and thoroughly unenjoyable process. It chews up many hours of the time of several dev team members who could otherwise be improving the game.
If one of these people who gets locked for multi-accounting approaches you to protest their innocence, remember rule #1 of multi-accounting: Multis are liars.
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I am sad and shocked, again. More sad... I hope he will apologize and come back with some more experience for his life.
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The evidence against Shady was even stronger than Mendicant. Mountains of technical data corroborated independently by other players with direct knowledge. We know this definitively. The best analogy is catching an employee stealing from the register, and then going back and checking the video tapes and accounting books for two years and seeing hundreds of instances. To the point about "accusations", they are not. This is the administrative action for what has been definitively proven. We don't share all of the evidence because it would violate the player's privacy and simply provide a roadmap for how to cheat and ruin the experience of hundreds of other players for two years.
EDIT: one thing that can probably be shared without consequence is that it was one main account (Shady's) controlling 7 others. A lot of nobles in OI, a lot in OG. All of them aiding Shady's characters in some way or another. This is all BESIDE the hard, technical, evidence, mind you. So, if Shady continues to protest his innocence to you privately, then I'm very sorry that he's put anyone in such an incredibly awkward position through a selfish decision to lie to his friends. This is why you don't cheat. The longer you get away with it, the greater the consequences when you're caught and the farther the fall. NOBODY enjoys it when this happens.
I am stunned.
I believe 3 of them are in OG from what I saw.
They must have been using their estates for gold to send to Shady would be my guess as they weren't active or vocal, except for Squall who was always on about becoming a Duke again or getting some regions to do his own realm.
Not good at all.
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Shady was also reading everything what was in Perdan Senate and was Marshal of Sirion Red Dragons.
I am sure this list can go on... and I am sure some took their toll here... :(
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Six characters in OG, total. Once we allow for the affected accounts to appeal (which is a chance everyone gets, by the way), we'll list the characters/accounts.
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Intresting, one of the locked accounts was for the house family, whose member 'Foreman' was implicated in forging faked letters concerning SoA in foreign courts. I always tried to question the player about this but he never answered, I guess this makes everything fit together now.
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I dont know enough about the Process of finding multis to say that it is a fact, but have you also investigated if there was a hack that all of the IPs of the locked accounts where redirected so that it looks as if they logged in from the same computer? Are there other indications that those accounts where definitely affiliated to each other then that ?
Also it is a great feat to send Gold from one continent to another to support a single character... if you have the time, Turner be shure to show me how this is done as it is impossible...
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I dont know enough about the Process of finding multis to say that it is a fact, but have you also investigated if there was a hack that all of the IPs of the locked accounts where redirected so that it looks as if they logged in from the same computer? Are there other indications that those accounts where definitely affiliated to each other then that ?
Also it is a great feat to send Gold from one continent to another to support a single character... if you have the time, Turner be shure to show me how this is done as it is impossible...
The evidence won't be shown, and thus, it also won't be stated how he operated.
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Isnt that a bit rude to say? One of our friends on the Eastern continent shall be banned from the game for ever and some are just trying to understand !why! and the only thing the GMs come up with is some babbling like "The evidence wont be shown" .. "no further discussion"
thats a darned cheek! If you want to loose your players for treating them like sh** you should keep that up and that will happen very fast.
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The player in question will get a chance to explain himself.
If you think you are being framed by someone else, that's just not possible from my understanding of how these things work. And the likeliness of it even being attempted is incredibly low. Again, if the player in question feels like the accusation is incorrect, he can defend himself. Furthermore, sending gold to help a specific character is far from impossible... it's actually rather easy.
The reason that the evidence is not presented publicly is obvious: would the cops reveal publicly which routes they will patrol, and at what time they will do so? To elaborate on the anti-cheat checks would be to assist people in bypassing them. Many cheaters were only caught when they revealed themselves, but I don't recall any of them continuing to claim innocence after evidence on their wrongdoing was collected. IPs are only one of many tools: the last public catch before him was a guy who covered his IP trace pretty darn well, and indeed there was no way to trace them back to him. Other means were used. The point of not publishing the means used to catch him is to have other such cheaters repeat his mistakes, so that we can catch them too.
The reason for the lock of his accounts is not difficult to comprehend: he broke the rules. Only one account per player is the rule. He will get a chance to defend himself, if truly he is innocent (which I seriously doubt). I fail to see anything rude in this. You cheat, you lose. Simple. And for your information, he won't be "banned from the game for ever". His accounts will be permanently locked, but it is policy to allow players to return should they chose to begin respecting the rules.
And for your information, I am not in any way responsible for cheating checks.
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Also, if the player wants to come back with a new account, no one is stopping him.
There has been few occasions where accused people could prove themselves innocent. They got their accounts unlocked in less than a week. If the player of Soulja family can prove himself innocent, he will get his account back.
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Also, if the player wants to come back with a new account, no one is stopping him.
There has been few occasions where accused people could prove themselves. They got their accounts unlocked in less than a week. If the player of Soulja family can prove himself innocent, he will get his account back.
Wrong. He like Mendicant, will be invited to make a new account unrelated to there own accounts and not allowed to profit from there previous achievements.
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Thank you. Thats exactly what i wanted to know. I just asked if there is some other evidence then just the IP log and got a little upset that there where not a satisfying answer from your side. Its completely understandable that you can and will not show the exact procedere of finding cheaters.
And i thought that sending Gold between Chars on other continents does not work directly. Isnt that true? Also i doubt that all of those characters supported shady as we on the OI never saw anything that clearly showed that he does have so much money.
Maybe you should try to mail the player of Shady and talk to him in person about that case in depth before making any fast decisions.
I talked to him and he told me that there are a few of his friends who log in to BM from time to time. The same is the case with me and my friends.. i also have some friends that do play BM and sometimes we do log in from the same IP address simply because we have our PCs standing in the same flat when we have a LAN-Party going. Im a bit scared that the same thing that happened to those players can happen to me and my friends too as it seems that we have a very similar situation here.
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Thank you. Thats exactly what i wanted to know. I just asked if there is some other evidence then Stuff
Have you try talking to other locked accounts before? Multies are usually very silent. You usually get a reply back from people if you send letters directly to them but if you try that to multies they don't send anything back.
As for your case, unless your friends come over to your house to play BM every day, it shouldn't be a problem.
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I talked to him and he told me that there are a few of his friends who log in to BM from time to time. The same is the case with me and my friends.. i also have some friends that do play BM and sometimes we do log in from the same IP address simply because we have our PCs standing in the same flat when we have a LAN-Party going. Im a bit scared that the same thing that happened to those players can happen to me and my friends too as it seems that we have a very similar situation here.
He's been invited to state his case and provide whatever explanation he wishes. He's also not banned from creating a forums account, so while admirable, there really isn't any need for friends to defend him.
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If someone who's account is locked provides a convincing and believable explanation of the situation that led us to believe they were a multi, then their accounts can be unlocked. This does occasionally happen. In that case we apologize and move on.
If we do not unlock their accounts, then they are welcome to return, with a single new account, so long as they follow the rules.
As far as common IP addresses, our methods are not so naieve or simplistic.
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I talked to him and he told me that there are a few of his friends who log in to BM from time to time. The same is the case with me and my friends.. i also have some friends that do play BM and sometimes we do log in from the same IP address simply because we have our PCs standing in the same flat when we have a LAN-Party going. Im a bit scared that the same thing that happened to those players can happen to me and my friends too as it seems that we have a very similar situation here.
Just to make clear before something happens: I don't know Kaltenthal! :D
Nah j/k even more Austrians playing? I thought we would be big minority. :D
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Six characters in OG, total. Once we allow for the affected accounts to appeal (which is a chance everyone gets, by the way), we'll list the characters/accounts.
Six??
Gee, I didn't realise it was that many..that is just a blow IC and OOC wise..
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Intresting, one of the locked accounts was for the house family, whose member 'Foreman' was implicated in forging faked letters concerning SoA in foreign courts. I always tried to question the player about this but he never answered, I guess this makes everything fit together now.
A lot of things fit together now.
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Not all of the accounts locked were from the same set. It was quite a clearing house, with several sets of accounts being locked.
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Wrong. He like Mendicant, will be invited to make a new account unrelated to there own accounts and not allowed to profit from there previous achievements.
I think you misunderstood.
Mendicant did not provide convincing evidence that he was not a multicheater. Frankly, in some cases, there's pretty much nothing the accused could say that could convince us that the evidence we have in our hands means something other than "multicheater". (I do not, offhand, recall if Mendicant's case rose to that level.)
Any multicheater who cannot prove their innocence is invited to make a new account unrelated to their prior accounts, and not allowed to profit from previous achievements.
Suspected multicheaters who prove to our satisfaction that they are, in fact, innocent are unlocked, and allowed to continue with their play with our apologies.
(This has actually happened at least once with someone who eventually turned out to be an actual multicheater.)
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Like i said, im mailing with him at the moment and he told me that you just will not unlock his account no matter what he explains to you.
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And he would know that because...?
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"I'm innocent!"
"But lock me up anyway."
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I assume because of the mail that he got from you?!
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Prosecution: "We have strong evidence that you stole the Queen's tarts. What do you have to say for yourself?"
Defendant: "I never stole any tarts. Let me go! I'm very upset at this treatment! I'm a very important person, you know!"
Prosecution: "We have a witness who saw you take the Queen's tarts. We also have your fingerprints on the windowsill where they were drying, and your DNA on the half-tart that was left."
Defendant: "I'm telling you, I didn't steal anything. I don't know about any witnesses or fingerprints or DNA. I'm an upstanding member of the community!"
...So, in the situation above, Kaltenthal, would you let the defendant go?
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I was talking with him OOC because I was thinking of moving Nideus to OI and I wanted to know how the realm was (active? fun?) from a perspective of a player wanting to move to fun realms.
But when I was going to reply on my phone I accidentally gave him a trust medal instead. You really shouldn't write on your phone but it happend. Then I looked on his player page to see how many trust medals he had now when he got one from me too. Six I think. Then I noticed his account had been locked.
I couldn't believe someone so trusted (having 5 medals before mine, being ruler of a realm and so on) turned out to be a multicheater :(
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I was talking with him OOC because I was thinking of moving Nideus to OI and I wanted to know how the realm was (active? fun?) from a perspective of a player wanting to move to fun realms.
But when I was going to reply on my phone I accidentally gave him a trust medal instead. You really shouldn't write on your phone but it happend. Then I looked on his player page to see how many trust medals he had now when he got one from me too. Six I think. Then I noticed his account had been locked.
I couldn't believe someone so trusted (having 5 medals before mine, being ruler of a realm and so on) turned out to be a multicheater :(
He could have self-awarded those medals with the multis, though. Maybe not, but it's a possibility.
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He could have self-awarded those medals with the multis, though. Maybe not, but it's a possibility.
But I do believe that you need some medals to give medals so he had to have gotten som honest medals somewhere.
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Just goes to show multis can mess things up. Now Westmoor is in a 2 v 1 war.
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@ Kaltenthal: we don't tell people that we won't unlock them no matter what. We tell them that the explanation they gave doesn't match the facts, and that if they can give a real explanation that *does* match the facts, then they may be unlocked. (So long as the explanation isn't "yeah, I was running 8 accounts".) In fact, I think Anaris unlocked two of the accounts yesterday, after the players involved gave an explanation that actually matched the data.
We don't enjoy locking multis. But we also don't enjoy having multis in the game, or the consequences to the game from having them, or the aftermath of their being cleaned out.
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Everything that needs to be said has been said. Anyone who's account has been locked has been given information on how to argue their case, and present their own side and evidence. This thread has served its purpose, and is closed. General discussion on the topic is welcome, in a new thread.