the bad thing for Terran... that was only 2/3 of the army...
When you're used to beating up on monsters and undead, it takes a while to get used to facing real people again. Terran will figure it out pretty quickly.
Out of curiosity, what kind of tax rates are most people on Dwilight running?
I am trying to figure out why Terran's cities are only running a 14% tax rate...
Out of curiosity, what kind of tax rates are most people on Dwilight running?I run my rural at 17% and have to do nil work to keep it at perfect stats. I'm thinking of seeing if I can get a little more out of it, given that we now have a war, and thus something to actually spend that gold on.
I am trying to figure out why Terran's cities are only running a 14% tax rate...
Yup. I OOCly figured we'd lose the first engagement if we didn't get a first strike, and Hireshmont ICly was determined not to make such a strike. But he is now fuming mad at the military types who he sees as having let down Terran.
Kale, and admittedly myself, are more than I little irked. I must have sent 5-6 order letters out (not counting the standing orders that were up the whole time) for about two weeks solid ordering all the Phantarians that war would break out any day and to rally in Lavendrow. WE HAD SEVEN OF THEM NOT IN LAVENDROW WHEN THE KABRINSKIANS HIT. I was upset.
If all of the Phantarians alone, not even counting Lowlanders (even some Lowlanders made it but not all Phantarians; hell the Senator of Larur made it!), had made it to Lavendrow we would have had the larger mobile CS force.
Not to mention the fact Kale goes around boasting about the elite quality of the Phantarians; it is his pride and joy, his everything. And after its first real engagement, Terran's first real war in literally forever, nobody rallies on time, we lose; Kale is the last to leave the field, his unit of 100 archers wiped out, and now he sits hanging onto to dear life with a serious/worsening injury!
Bleh! >:(
And with the rumors of FangFang marching south, it may get quite crazy.I do not hope so. Barca lays south of the Zuma.
I think that the reason Kabrinskia is doing so well so far is that we are united in Faith as well as our commitment to punish Tarran for their insults and actions. We would not have gone to war so quickly if Terran had not declared war on Kabrinskia. Tarran's whining on the ruler channel did not help their situation either.
As for the battles thus far you are right our movement rate was far superior to that of Tarran. And our nobles all had the same line settings we pride ourselves on following orders and it is rare that we are not in sync with one another whether we agree with the orders given or not. We try to be like a family..... bicker among ourselves but show solidarity to the world.
We also have a strong Leadership.
Maybe, maybe not. While the Church doesn't always approve of what Allison is doing, more often than not it is easier just to turn a blind eye...
Also, don't underestimate how irritating Hireshmont is. My character still hasn't forgiven him for his attitude toward the situation in Demyansk a few months ago. If he's been treating Kabrinskia the same way then the provocation runs both ways.
Taking a stroll through the woods is not provocation. You guys just have thin skin. Seriously.
In all reality both sides knew this war was going to happen, and both sides wanted it to happen. The only questions was "who is going to declare it first?"
You are clearly oblivious to the campaign of provocation led by Allison against D'Hara and Terran this last month.
This would be true as Katayanna only recently was made a full member of the church... so I cannot respond to this with any detail.
though to be honest about it Katayanna would have supported anything against Dhara as she wants her realm back.... lol or at least part of it. she wants to turn it to a SA theocracy and she makes no secret about it... nothing personal against the players that took it from her, but she will seek their characters destruction if given the chance. She may never get the chance but that does not mean she does not dream of such an opportunity (in fact I like the players of most of them personally).
A new war is breaking out (19 minutes ago)
Asylon has declared war on Kabrinskia.
So the moot and Asylon decided to just hand SA the continent on a silver platter? All these war declarations surely aren't going to turn this 1 on 1 into yet another SA own-fest, are they now? Oh wait, they are.
The nr. 1 reason why SA is so powerful is because it's enemies are stupid.
SA is in all of Kabrinskia's enemies.
Funny considering how she was the one who got D'Hara on the bad side of SA and how she was the one who wanted to leave to found another realm.
No worries. I don't know about other theocracies but Astrum isn't going to help Kabrinskia unless moot people start ganging up on Kabrinskia.
Aren't the moot people already ganged up on Kabrinskia?No, maybe your ruler does not share anything with the rest the realm's but Terran has said it will not take land and the two realms who joined said they will only defend Terran lands even if Terran decides to attack Kabrinskia. Also Asylon is not apart of the moot but a realm ruled by a SA member. Also Terran doesn't mind the preaching as it is not against SA at all, with a duke actually being a previous elder of SA (Labell). Terran's reasons for war are that Terran was angered by Kabrinkskia from something before I came to Dwilight so they decided to ban all nobles of Kabrinskia from entering. Kabrinskia says that it never intruded but I have heard several cases which Allison tries to say don't count.
Is that your only defense against the might of the theocracies?
Don't get me wrong, I wish you all the best of luck, but you're gonna get owned.
The inability to wipe out and recolonize the land is going to make this a bit of a different war. The final objective will be to win concessions from the other side, and not land. (Or at least no more than a token region or so.)
Terran has already stated they don't want any land out of the war. Unles Kabrinskia really bungles something, they'd have a hard time changing their goal that much. It is something that would surely bring in Kabrinskia's allies.
Like Kabrinskia burning their regions to the ground making them go rogue, perhaps Asylon's as well?Have they done this yet? If they have, I haven't heard about it.
I am pretty sure this will escalate if Kabrinskia attacks Asylon's regions. That would cook things up as Asylon would then retaliate. Since Allison should want their allies to interfere, and knowing her character, I think it's likely this will happen.There is a point where Allison's allies can no longer ignore/rationalize her attempts to provoke an escalation of the war. We're not idiots.
Have they done this yet? If they have, I haven't heard about it.
If the war escalates the only one to suffer the most will be Kabrinskia. All the other nations are close enough to attack deep into Kabrinskian lands. If Astrum joins they will help even the odds a bit but ultimately time and distance will devour any statistical advantage.
This could also be your chance to get rid of Allison. I assume Terran would settle for a change of leadership within Kabrinskia.Thats an interesting idea.
This could also be your chance to get rid of Allison. I assume Terran would settle for a change of leadership within Kabrinskia.
Well if Kabrinskia decides to TO regions and Terran TO's back and starts winning by a lot they could do the whole, "Get rid of Allison as ruler or we destroy the realm" thing for it to happen.
For that to start, someone has to pull the trigger. I don't know that that will happen. Sure, Allison is a loose cannon, but she's also very adept at gauging just how far she can go before truly Bad Things happen to her. If she ever messed up it was only once, when she seceded Aegir, but even then she managed to claw herself out of the abyss by setting off the war between Astrum and Caerwyn.
Ugh! Kabrinskia started out well, but we suicided into Shokas walls in waves. :-(
i so want to chronicle this war for the history department but i have a hard time keeping in touch with you occidentalists. hmm, ill think of something.
The defense of Shoka... saved Terran's skin.
Alternatively, Astrum could stay out of it, since Kabrinskia just pillaged Terran's north without Terran ever taking an aggressive act or even making a threat against them. Terran's not going to conquer Kabrinskia (unless they try to TO us first); Astrum needn't worry about the survival of Kabrinskia. Just its dignity.
Oh come on Astrum we all know you are just itching to get into the conflict. Its fun playing on a limited battlefield, we could get a WWI trench war going in Terran with multiple kingdoms marching back and forth and fighting in that area, its like the Korean conflict, with all the big and small powers fighting over a small area without actually saying they are in the conflict. Think of it Asylon gets to be America and Astrum can be the Soviet union, Kabrinskia is North Korea and Terran is South Korea, Barca can be Canada and maybe you guys can find one more like Iashular to play an emerging China? ;D
Well... except for declaring war. That's not aggressive at all... ^_^
There's the concept of casus belli which states that even if X was the first who officially declared war, if Y gave a reason to spark aggression, then X is not considered the aggressor.
Even if I some how lose or at least lose bad enough to some how lose a region or have to abdicate the throne of Kabrinskia it was worth it. Dwilight was boring and needed a good war! I must say this is one of the most bizarre wars I have ever been involved in.
I am pretty sure this will escalate if Kabrinskia attacks Asylon's regions. That would cook things up as Asylon would then retaliate. Since Allison should want their allies to interfere, and knowing her character, I think it's likely this will happen.
This could also be your chance to get rid of Allison. I assume Terran would settle for a change of leadership within Kabrinskia.
Yup.
I see one of three results:
1. One of us slips up/decides to escalate and it becomes a full-on fight between Kabrinskia and allies and Terran and allies.
2. We fight back and forth, looting, then get some kind of brokered settlement
3. We fight back and forth, no settlement is reached, we drive the frontier area rogue, and it remains that way as we periodically march across the wastes to loot each other
Not gonna lie: I'm hoping for #3. The idea of a constantly contested, depopulated border wasteland where both sides are committed to hurting the either, but neither side is powerfully interested in actual conquest, sounds entertaining to me. I can just imagine the RP where young nobles of Terran cut their teeth by staging daring raids into Kabrinskia (and vice versa).
Don't count on D'Hara to help this happen. Having Golden Farrow closed to our traders for an extended period of time would make me quite grumpy. We don't need Golden Farrow to get to anywhere, but the thought of that sea route being closed off goes against everything we stand for.
What an useful ally...
The funny part of this is that Terran freaked out over a Trader in their lands. D'haran traders regularly go through Golden Farrow without ever announcing themselves. I brought this up to Hireshmont in front of the other Rulers and he didn't have a good answer. That right there helped me look better to a few of the other rulers.
The funny part of this is that Terran freaked out over a Trader in their lands. D'haran traders regularly go through Golden Farrow without ever announcing themselves. I brought this up to Hireshmont in front of the other Rulers and he didn't have a good answer. That right there helped me look better to a few of the other rulers.
Actually as soon as the trader was asked to leave he did and none of the other traders ever set foot in Terran lands.
It's like this: Terran asked Kabrinskia traders to leave and stay out. But those pesky traders kept showing up. D'Haran traders were never told by anyone to leave or stay out of Kabrinskia.
Do you understand now? Or should I break out the crayons? ;)
Terran freely admits that one trader had permission to enter their realm. So only one trader there was againt the treaty. I ordered him out and he left. It seems rather weak reasoning to make such a fuss. To me it seemed that Terran wanted war so I sent an Elder priest of SA through their lands to the Zuma see if they were really gonna declare war. I wasnt gonna be bullied. I really didnt think you were gonna declare war. I told my realm we were calling your bluff. So now we get a fun war and in the end I hope I can annex some territory after this war gains a few more participants and devolves into a free for all!
Oh, that's just hilarious. I will remember this war as, "What happens when BM players get bored."
.. totally don't get that trader nonsense to be dead honest.
a trader can only trade if someone in the realm makes an open offer... he doesn't have to step inside a realm to trade with that realm. only reason he might pop inside is to trade with someone beyond that realm..
-
perhaps there should be a trade partner status without going into alliance? (trade has.. open, allies only, realm only atm... war would also stop trading)
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perhaps there should be a trade partner status without going into alliance? (trade has.. open, allies only, realm only atm... war would also stop trading)
The Trade Agreement grants common traders of the signing parties to trade at each others market places.
As long as this treaty is in effect, the parties can send caravan missions to each others regions.
See, GoldPanda? It's all D'Hara's fault. That D'Haran trader violated a treaty. "Nothing further is required."
I knew that if we tried hard enough, we could pin it all on D'Hara. Now can we all just forget about this silly border squabble and get on with the real business at hand: Invading D'Hara!
yeah... but it still doesn't explain that stuff about traders popping into a realm and what not. it's not the 1st time i've seen it in dwi.I would bet that most/all of those treaties were written before the new trading system was implemented. Back then, you had to physically travel to the region to trade with it. Treaties like this will pretty much be ridiculous under the new system.
i think it's solaria or some such had some silly rule about having to talk to banker before trade... but if are not inside the border, how are you supposed to know that? if all you see is open deal, how are you supposed to know you are not meant to buy it?If an order is available for you to trade on, then trade on it. If they didn't want you to fill it, they shouldn't have posted it, or posted it in a more restricted manner.
That works for me. We can tie up Tarran, barca, and Asylon forces while Astrum and Morek and the Lurians invade Dhara!
Oh I forgot the Solarians too....
Divide Dhara up like a failed business an sell it to the highest bidder....
I want Port Raviel back so I will bid high on that city.... lol
The Solarians are Lurians... ;)
We let no trader into our realm. We let a trader into Faithill. Again, all clearly available fact. That trader then traveled as far as Vashgew despite repeated warnings. A second trader also showed up and went as far as Vashgew. Again, this is all simple fact. ICly characters can think whatever; Allison is welcome to believe that Terran made up a just-so story. But OOCly, it really did happen. And to cover it up, your traders really did insult Terran's banker to our judge's face, then insult the judge to the region lord's face.
All the while, of course, we were trying to get murderous settings to work. Wasn't until too late we learned that, as long as your traders kept moving, we couldn't touch'em.
The Solarians are Lurians... ;)
See, GoldPanda? It's all D'Hara's fault. That D'Haran trader violated a treaty. "Nothing further is required."
I knew that if we tried hard enough, we could pin it all on D'Hara. Now can we all just forget about this silly border squabble and get on with the real business at hand: Invading D'Hara!
Aren't you moot people just one big political group that signs group treaties? Honestly, I have no idea what the treaties Kabrinskia signed were. All I know is that we all wanted this war.
While the Moot can collectively negotiate, it does not always, and the treaty with Kabrinskia certainly was not.
We <3 Asylon!
We <3 Asylon!
I thought that meant he was tea bagging you. :P
Indeed. United but independant.
Much like provinces can make agreements that bind them with others without binding the rest of the country.
Well Asylon has a defensive alliance with Terran. Terran declared war, but Kabrinskia entered Terran territory thereby activating the treaty. If Terran had of declared war and then invaded Kabrinskia they would be fighting alone right now.
So the other member entities aren't party to any agreements signed by any one member, but they're definitely going to jump into any war begun by said member. That's quite the racket you're running. ;-)
Is Kabrinskia going to be able to maneuver out of Terran? I tried challenging Asylon to honorable combat not sure if they are gonna accept.
Now Terran's north is very awkward.
Is Kabrinskia going to be able to maneuver out of Terran? I tried challenging Asylon to honorable combat not sure if they are gonna accept.
Geronus, when is Astrum gonna shake off the cob webs and get involved? Better keep in practice if you want to remain the big kid on the block.
Why would Astrum join in? You seem to be doing just fine on your own. I mean, you did tell me you didn't want help. Something like "As long as it's Terran and Barca I'm happy". Well, it will only be Terran and Barca invading you, so, have fun!
Asylon isn't invading Kabrinskia. And as long as its only Terran/Barca invading Kabrinskia, I'm content to watch. Of course, if you provoke Asylon to invade you, then enjoy your crushing defeat.
Meh, right now, no crushing defeat looks imminent. Terran won't be able to pose an existential threat to Kabrinskia for a very long time, lol.
This is true enough. Barca forces have not yet arrived on the front lines. When and if they do it will begin to be a tough fight.
depending on what they send.
Well, I could always go behind Brance' back and try to raise an army of my own. Kind of like you did to help Virovene back in the day. Heh.
lol, with refit times in the 2-3 week range, Barca is not going to radically tip the scales.
The big strategic questions in this war will be:
1. Asylon's response time to invasions of Terran
2. Relative strategic cleverness and activity of Kabrinskia and Terran
3. Whether or not Terran can starve out Kabrinskia faster than Kabrinskia can impoverish Terran
So far, Kabrinskia is winning on all three categories. We'll see in the long run though.
I was talking to dustole, actually. Remember when Allison lead an army of 'volunteers' from Morek to support Virovene against Springdale (think waaaaaaaaay back)? I seem to remember that the official position of the government of Morek was peace with Springdale and that Allison was said to be acting on her own.
Are you sure? I'm quite sure Cato and Allison hated each other. Wasn't Cato rped as being murdered by one of her assassins?
You think Allison helps people because she likes them? :o
Tarran will not starve out Kabrinskia we are self supporting at this time.....
As far as food is concerned, Terran has the leg up, though of course Kabrinskia can trade with Morek and whatnot.
though of course Kabrinskia can trade with Morek and whatnot.
Regional report in Barca:
- The locals question the war against Kabrinskia.
Regional report in Barca:
- The locals question the war against Kabrinskia.
Man, I really hate that code. Barca finally gets its first war, and the game tells it "Oh, maybe you shouldn't do that". It goes against everything we've been pushing for for as long as I can remember.
If it's random. With the ambassadors roaming around, it is not necessarily so.
(Disclaimer: I have never even set foot in Barca, not my fault!)
the war thing, i would think is based on the stat... what's it called.. equivalent to loyalty.. (or rather... loyalty is simply that stat for your own regions applied to your own realm)
Sympathy.
Perhaps if we badmouth Kabrinskia?
Once they kill some Kabrinskians in battle it should decline again, right?
I could be wrong, but I think there is some "bleed" when you loot regions. Sympathy for your realm in adjacent regions (that belongs to the same realm that you're looting) decreases as well, although not nearly as quickly.
64,000.
And how big will Golden Farrow get if you keep feeding it?
Much bigger.
---
As far as food is concerned, Terran has the leg up, though of course Kabrinskia can trade with Morek and whatnot.
Really?
Interesting.
I can almost see the smoke over here as Vellos re-crunches the numbers and assumptions that he has made for this war.
The whole Zuma incident a few weeks ago was a massive blessing for Asylon. It gave me the excuse to push for Asylon to be on constant war footing, by the time the war started Asylon didnt need to prepare too much.
Yeah, Terran's refit times are big, but I'm pretty sure we have a significant advantage over Kabrinskia in terms of raw mobile firepower, just a long march to get to the front. :p
Why does it matter where Asylon's capital is in relation to Kabrinskia? King Glaumring has already stated they won't attack Kabrinskian land.
You're assuming that no one tries to intentionally cause an incident. A dangerous assumption.
You're assuming that no one tries to intentionally cause an incident. A dangerous assumption.
I must admit...it is very odd to see all this politicking on the forums...very odd...
Yeah, but we should focus Ig more. I find people tend to take forum banter as canon.
And no one is insulting each other or calling each other namese.... very refreshing
Thanks, Chenier, you just ruined it... >:(
I thought he was meaning there was no flaming/name calling in this thread about the conflict... not in-game name calling.
I agree. Astrum should attack Ashylon. Time to crush that overstretched realm.
Iashalur is now accepting refugees. :P
Will you have enough room for all the new arrivals from Astrum?
6975 cs of tarran and barca forces entering Demyansk next turn. so much for Tarran being able to fight its own war or just defending their territory.
and only 2000 cs is from Tarran.
For the love of the Triune, it's T-E-R-R-A-N!
Don't worry, we won't forget Tarran, Barka or O'Hara.
If you think it is problem behavior, then report it to the Magistrates. Being a magistrate yourself, you should know that's the proper thing to do.
That is exactly what I was talking about. sorry should have been clearer.
I haven't played with Katayanna in a very, very long time. I can't tell.
Then I misunderstood. The discussions here have been civil.
Don't worry, we won't forget Tarran, Barka or O'Hara.
I'm highly surprised we're all still trying to pretend SA won't jump in to save Kabrinskia if times get tough.
Kabrewski
"Systematically stubborn and insulting"? Come on, this is Kabrinskia we're talking about. How likely do you think that is? ::)
Yeah dont forget Ashylon... The amount of times I've seen Terran misspelled is absolutely mindboggling. Just the other day someone in my own realm was spelling it Tarra... Wtf not like its that FVuvenguguguguguk realm in Bel.
Im pausing. RL issues. Setting everyrhing right before i leave
Meh, I'd hate to have this war end after just a battle or two. But, hey, if Kabrinskia asks for terms of surrender, Terran isn't going to rebuff it outright. We have a deep and abiding fondness for diplomatic parchment.
what kind of terms would Tarran ask for
How about we do diplomacy IG, not on the forum?
what.. no ambassador?
Im pausing. RL issues. Setting everyrhing right before i leave
Well with Allison gone there is nothing holding Asylon back from completely destroying Kabrinskia! ;)
*sniff* Say it ain't so! :'(
Allison is a huge part of what makes SA and Dwilight great in my book. Who's going to stir up trouble if you're not around? A bunch of two-bit talentless hacks, that's who!
I'll miss you.
Astrum was a powerful kingdom once, and Morek is far away. The new reality is an ascendant Asylon and a powerful unified southern alliance. Without Allison SA will once again fall into a yawning silence carried foward by its many comfortable nobles as the east lands fall apart under their own malaise from lack of interested nobles. The massive SA alliance should end, SA should schism and war should be the hallmark of a grand new age of intrigue and skullduggery. Instead SA will continue to chug foward and keep pushing to fight southward and eventually fall apart under its own weight. Oh for the old days of the eastlands when kingdoms once had nationalism and pride on their own ascendance. Gone now.
Tarran
I am new...I don't know Allison of the exploits of said character...but give me some time and I will be doing my part to make things interesting =P
Personally I believe unless pushed many in the main SA theocracies will tow the line and maintain homogenized society in order to maintain safety in numbers, making for probable long term survival but a longer slower form of play style that will grind out any fun to be had instead of a map that is filled with empires that quickly rise, blossom and fall apart into war and a blaze of glory.
The Dragon Queen could return. that might be excitingThe Dragon Queen takes the throne once more, now in Kabrinskia would be the headlines of the next Ashrak Imperialist though I doubt many of you read this newspaper.
The Dragon Queen could return. that might be exciting
The Dragon Queen could indeed return... for a proper funeral.
Perhaps I should ask our allies to add a clause about her in Kabrinskia's surrender.
Why are you so afraid of Katayanna, a mere knight now... lol
and the Dragon Queen no longer exists. now
Afraid, not quite. Vindictive, quite a bit.
He enjoys seeing those who slighted him or threaten his realm suffer.
If I recall you were one of the ring leaders of the rebellion. how did she ever threaten you .......... she trusted you and you stabbed her in the back as I recall. And how is she threatening your realm..... I mean her realm that you helped steal from her. are you afraid that she is garnering the power and support to take it back? Hmmmm could be we shall see.
If I recall you were one of the ring leaders of the rebellion. how did she ever threaten you .......... she trusted you and you stabbed her in the back as I recall. And how is she threatening your realm..... I mean her realm that you helped steal from her. are you afraid that she is garnering the power and support to take it back? Hmmmm could be we shall see.
Plus it gave them an excuse to get their army back home that was stuck up in the northern mountains.I liked having him there. :( Our own little monster grinder...
This has very little to do with me and is mostly about the Zuma wanting to keep Hireshmont in check.
Maybe Terrence is involved again? Mwahahahaha!
lol, wouldn't that be fun.
OK who is terrence
Who lives in Asylon :-[
An adventurer who once incited the Zuma to war against Terran and Barca.
Well... is he actually physically IN Asylon?
Because if so, you've been supposed to arrest him for a very long time.
All I can say is, Luria totally didn't have anything to do with it. Totally.
Quite honestly Haktoo told Allison that she did not like Hireshmont. That it was Hireshmont who tried to goad her into attacking Kabrinskia and SA over the preaching law that was passed.
My plan was to declare war against Terran in the spring. I told Haktoo of my plans. I also told her of my worry that when this happened that Barca and D'hara would declare war on me and possibly Asylon. I was told to go ahead with my plans and that if other realms fought against me to support Terran then the Zuma would get invovled. I think she wanted to see Hireshmont get a bloody nose from kabrinskia and to keep it a 1 on 1 war. Then, a day later Terran declares war on me and so does Barca. So Haktoo immediately started marching Fang Fang south. But he had to pass through mountains to get here in the winter time and that took forever.
I did not have to promise anything or do anything for the Zuma for this to happen. It was triggered when Barca entered. I am guessing it has more to do with keeping the Zuma's neighbors from getting much stronger. You guys do have a history with the Zuma and Haktoo very much dislikes Hireshmont.
I desperately hope you are leaving something out, and that the Zuma GM is not just going around offering to hop onboard wars.
I desperately hope you are leaving something out, and that the Zuma GM is not just going around offering to hop onboard wars.
How did you manage to have the Zuma come and kill me? That's crazy...
Pretty sure the aegis is all the impetus they would require.
Seeing as no one in Luria is conceivably aware of that, it would be very interesting for them to know.
I don't know if you're aware, but when you wield a unique item, it shows up in the battle report. When the battle is big enough, every realm gets it. Everyone on Dwilight knows Brom Silverfire has the Zuma's aegis.
Well that's not true. Everyone on Dwilight knows Brom Silverfire has Brom Silverfire's aegis, which just happens to have historic Zuma significance.
Let the fun begin. (Here's wondering if the Zuma will chase Brom with their army on the Kabrinskian-Terran border)
And, again, you confuse "I found this" with "I own this."
It's the Aegis of the Zuma. As in, belonging to...the Zuma. Honestly, how stubborn and greedy do you have to be not to see that?
Did you miss the part where Haktoo was annoyed with Hireshmont for trying to get the Zuma to do what he wanted?
I'm enjoying the squabbling over who really controls the Zuma in the ruler channel, while ignoring the obvious possibility that the Zuma are a civilization with a sentient—clever, really—leader. Why would they not pursue their own agenda?
Okay, let me clarify something:
*I* as the player understand the difference.
Brom Silverfire does not. Is that reasonable enough?
Didn't you read the label on the back saying "Made in Nightmarch"?
Actually, it just has a name "Aegis of the Zuma". That no more makes it property of the Zuma than the name "Shield of Libiddo" means that the Shield belongs to Libiddo. Or that Ucdauh's Spear belongs to someone named Ucdauh? (sp?)
How is Brom to know that the Zuma stake a claim to every item that bears the name "of the Zuma"? If Brance got his hands on one of those, he would not instantly assume that the Zuma own it, and that he should give it back to them. If the Zuma want to claim that is the case, then the Zuma need to make that info public. Which, so far as I know, they have not.
Didn't you read the label on the back saying "Made in Nightmarch"?
All true. Though, Brom definitely does know that the Zuma are seeking the items. Several people do. Brom knows because he—according to Garret (I know, right)—was offering to collect them in exchange for salvation.
I *Knew* you were lying about that. Haktoo didn't tell you a thing. Nice fabricated letter though. (Also: Salvation of Pian, and Destruction of Solaria are two different things.)
Okay, let me clarify something:
*I* as the player understand the difference.
Brom Silverfire does not. Is that reasonable enough?
In this case, you were attributing the knowledge of the ownership of the Aegis not to Brom, but to "Everyone on Dwilight".
What? I'm really confused as to what this is supposed to mean?
In the message I replied to, reiterating the "you found it, you don't own it" thing, you were saying that "Everyone on Dwilight knows Brom Silverfire has Brom Silverfire's aegis, which just happens to have historic Zuma significance," as opposed to "Everyone on Dwilight knows Brom Silverfire has the Zuma's aegis."
This was all in the context (as I understood it, at least) of Lurians knowing why the Zuma might want to hunt down and/or kill Brom.
Thus, who Brom thought the true owner of the Aegis was wouldn't matter in this case.
This is so dumb.
Dwilight has officially become "Zuma Diplomacy Master"
Whoever can woo the Zuma automatically becomes winner of whatever war they are in.
So dumb. We try to fight the first real Human vs. Human war in the history of the southwest pretty much, and it is ruined by the freaking Zuma. WTF.
http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,2355.0.html
There ya go bud
Please do not start another "zuma suck" thread. If this turns into another trash the zuma thing, I will lock the hell out of it. If you want to complain about the zuma send your messages straight to Tom. There's not a single damn thing that anyone else here can do to address your issues.
Please do not start another "zuma suck" thread. If this turns into another trash the zuma thing, I will lock the hell out of it. If you want to complain about the zuma send your messages straight to Tom. There's not a single damn thing that anyone else here can do to address your issues.
I agree here, I didn't help things talking about the Brom's item interaction with the Zuma, but it had at least some relation to current events in the war. We should focus on the events of the war for this thread.
Again, I don't really buy it. It's possible we have a Terrence 2.0 situation where the Haktoo chats with everyone except the people alleged to have said or done something, but I don't think so.
Hireshmont hasn't communicated with Haktoo in over 20 days. The sum of the communication he has received from Haktoo in the last 30 days is:
Roleplay from Haktoo (25 days ago)
A single female Zuma comes to you and speaks, "Haktoo thanks you for your information. The one known as Allison has just arrived in our lands to talk, so this will be getting questioned as, if it is as you say, and as it appears, that is not acceptable."
Maybe from that I'm supposed to derive, "Haktoo is deeply upset with Hireshmont and will take the next opportunity to support an enemy of Terran because of a personal vendetta against Hireshmont." Not sure how, but maybe.
Again, I'm not saying Haktoo doesn't have some kind of reasoning. And I'm not saying I expect to know it. I'm just saying I don't buy the reasoning as presented here in this thread. If it really is that... I'm disappointed in the Zuma GM, because it's the same thing all over again: zero communication, no warning or evident provocation, massive army attacking Terran, chilling effect, long delay until anything fun happens again. But I don't think that's what's going on here.
I'm assuming they are pursuing their agenda, or at least Hireshmont is. Hence the characterization of Allison as a Zuma lackey, and not vice versa.
How am I not focusing on the events of the war?
Is the Zuma intervention not the events of the war? Clearly they are. And it sucks.
Please, tell me how I'm wrong: Dwilight is officially Zuma Diplomacy Master: Woo the Zuma or you lose.
I'm playing everything out IC, don't get me wrong. It's just that this is so damn annoying, even when we ignore them they come after us.
Um.. what? Okay..?
I'm guessing he meant to link this thread:
http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,1792.570.html (http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,1792.570.html)
Just because she hasn't directly said "I'm upset with you" in the last 30 days doesn't mean she doesn't already strongly dislike Hireshmont due to your previous interactions, which by all accounts were borderline disastrous. Brance shares almost everything he gets from Hireshmont with the council, so I see a lot of what he writes. During that little tiff over Demyansk before Kabrinskia was founded, my character was ready to pick up a torch and start burning Terran to the ground, so don't underestimate Hireshmont's ability to make people hate his guts. Hell, even though Hireshmont's been very reasonable in his communications with Astrum lately Lysander still doesn't like him, all because of his attitude in Astrum's earlier interactions with him.
Alternatively, considered another way: Lysander may very well dislike Hireshmont. But I don't see Lysander launching an attack on Terran anywhere. The line between "quietly despise" and "11,000 CS of soldiers attacking you" seems, to me, to indicate that something more happened, I just have no idea what.
Luria has had four civil wars, and I don't think anyone knows the real reasons for each outbreak. Perfect information would be nice, but perfection is hard to obtain. ;)
How am I not focusing on the events of the war?
Is the Zuma intervention not the events of the war? Clearly they are. And it sucks.
Please, tell me how I'm wrong: Dwilight is officially Zuma Diplomacy Master: Woo the Zuma or you lose.
Luria has had four civil wars, and I don't think anyone knows the real reasons for each outbreak. Perfect information would be nice, but perfection is hard to obtain. ;)
Luria has had four civil wars, and I don't think anyone knows the real reasons for each outbreak. Perfect information would be nice, but perfection is hard to obtain. ;)
Whoa, the war is over? Terran lost?
That was quick. ;)
Essentially, yes.
We will not be able to make any further production in this war if the Zuma continue to protect Kabrinskia and that's even IF they don't outright come after us.
The only way it changes is if Terran somehow convinces the Zuma to stop aiding Kabrinskia.
Thus, it has become a game of "Woo the Daimons," nothing more.
We will not be able to make any further production in this war if the Zuma continue to protect Kabrinskia and that's even IF they don't outright come after us.This is all based on pure speculation, with no supporting data. You have no clue what's really happening.
The only way it changes is if Terran somehow convinces the Zuma to stop aiding Kabrinskia.
I already gave out one warning that this thread will not be turned into another generic "whine about the Zuma" thread. There will not be a second.
Do you *want* this thread locked? I'm trying to be nice here...I think you are getting a little too agressive considering Perth didn't say the Zuma were going to attack Terran he said if they do. Now if you saying that he is whining by saying if the Zuma attacked Terran they have no chance in the war then I would have to disagree because he is just stating a fact. The Zuma have several units of Daimons bordering Terran that are about 10k CS each so I don't see how Terran would be able to defend against atleast 30k CS and attack Kabrinskia so he is just stating a fact. Thats like saying I am whining by saying if the Daimon forces on Beluterra were to focus all on one realm rather quickly so the other realm human realms couldn't help defend that the daimon forces would crush the realm. I see that as stating a fact and not whining.
I think you are getting a little too agressive considering Perth didn't say the Zuma were going to attack Terran he said if they do. Now if you saying that he is whining by saying if the Zuma attacked Terran they have no chance in the war then I would have to disagree because he is just stating a fact.
We will not be able to make any further production in this war if the Zuma continue to protect Kabrinskia and that's even IF they don't outright come after us.This is what Indirik was quoting so it would seem that is what he was warning about. I am not trying to argue but defend Perth for the part that it seemed Indirik was warning about since thats what he quoted when warning. I do think Velax's statement was rather unnecassary though.
The only way it changes is if Terran somehow convinces the Zuma to stop aiding Kabrinskia.
This is what Indirik was quoting so it would seem that is what he was warning about. I am not trying to argue but defend Perth for the part that it seemed Indirik was warning about since thats what he quoted when warning. I do think Velax's statement was rather unnecassary though.
His original warning quoted nothing, but was right after the initial complaint, "This is becoming Zuma Diplomacy Master!"
That is the sentiment that was being warned about.
Or just kill those daimons and be released of all of their supposedly negative influences. 11,000 CS? Psh...
And if Terran, Barca, and Asylon all join their armies together, they should be able to muster over 40k mobile. That should take care of Fang Fang.
"Huge Battle Fought (38 minutes ago)
Rumours spread and tales are sung about a huge battle in Demyansk:
Zuma Coalition vs. Kabrinskia
Estimated strengths: 90 men vs. 630 men
The Army of the Maddening Star (Kabrinskia), sponsored by Lady Allison Kabrinski, Priestess of Sanguis Astroism, Grandmistress of Kabrinskia, Duchess of the Maddening Star, Margravine of Golden Farrow, were led into battle by Marshal Artanis Adastra.
Fang Fang is spotted wielding the Swift Arrow of Suffering.
Attacker Victory!"
So...they're not on the same side now?
"Huge Battle Fought (38 minutes ago)
Rumours spread and tales are sung about a huge battle in Demyansk:
Zuma Coalition vs. Kabrinskia
Estimated strengths: 90 men vs. 630 men
The Army of the Maddening Star (Kabrinskia), sponsored by Lady Allison Kabrinski, Priestess of Sanguis Astroism, Grandmistress of Kabrinskia, Duchess of the Maddening Star, Margravine of Golden Farrow, were led into battle by Marshal Artanis Adastra.
Fang Fang is spotted wielding the Swift Arrow of Suffering.
Attacker Victory!"
So...they're not on the same side now?
This is all based on pure speculation, with no supporting data. You have no clue what's really happening.
What? Of course it is speculation. I was making a prediction about the outcome of the war based on what I have observed is happening. Sheesh, maybe you should lock the thread if no one can speculate on ongoing wars because clearly no one can ever know everything that is happening or what change in diplomacy may come. I made a prediction based on the evidence I have. You're right, I probably don't have a clue what's really happening... does that mean I can't take a guess based on what I do know?
I clearly said that IF the Daimons continue to protect Kabrinskia that Terran would make no progress in the war and our only hope would be to "woo" the Zuma. What is wrong about that statement?
Yeah, yeah, laugh it up... dicks...
Now that Terran can (effectively) use the Zuma aggression against Kabrinskia to their own advantage, do you think Terran folks will stop whining about Zuma involvement?
(Yes. The answer is yes.)
Yeah, yeah, laugh it up... dicks...
Anyways, Velax. They attacked us because despite a letter stating otherwise from Grandmistress Allison, we were ordered to go into Demyansk by our marshal, and our Ordermarshal was too fatigued irl to think.
Now that Terran can (effectively) use the Zuma aggression against Kabrinskia to their own advantage, do you think Terran folks will stop whining about Zuma involvement?
(Yes. The answer is yes.)
And how did they attack you when you're at peace with them? Are all Zuma units set to murderous?Fang Fang has been doing some RPs on the trip down that depicted the daimons as frenzied, hungry, and rampaging from the exertion of the long run all the way down from Corridor of Torment. Something about how they were enraged and ready to kill anything they could find. We got a version of this as the daimons passed through Duil. They've been going non-stop for well over a week. That's a long trip.
Fang Fang has been doing some RPs on the trip down that depicted the daimons as frenzied, hungry, and rampaging from the exertion of the long run all the way down from Corridor of Torment. Something about how they were enraged and ready to kill anything they could find. We got a version of this as the daimons passed through Duil. They've been going non-stop for well over a week. That's a long trip.
I interpret the RP as "We're running on Murderous, get the hell out of our way, or you're going to be sorry."
It would be nice to see the battle report.
Fang Fang has been doing some RPs on the trip down that depicted the daimons as frenzied, hungry, and rampaging from the exertion of the long run all the way down from Corridor of Torment. Something about how they were enraged and ready to kill anything they could find. We got a version of this as the daimons passed through Duil. They've been going non-stop for well over a week. That's a long trip.
I interpret the RP as "We're running on Murderous, get the hell out of our way, or you're going to be sorry."
yes, essentially people didn't listen to Allison. She told them to send 1 or 2 units to Demyansk to check out the situation. Instead someone sent the army and then did a late turn order and only about 1/2 of the army even showed up.
Epic Fail.
ICly, Hireshmont is laughing it up right now.
OOCly, no, I still don't understand the Zuma involvement.
Fundamentally, I'm not opposed to Zuma involvement. I'm opposed to Zuma involvement that is entirely oriented towards terrorism and status-quo-ism. namely, massively disproportionate responses to a few players' secretive RPs; and interventions that have major chilling effects on the game.
I remain completely ignorant about what the Zuma are up to. Haktoo hasn't responded to Hireshmont yet. But, frankly, it still bothers me that the Zuma are around, even if we gained from them (for now). It's an intervention I don't understand, and I don't know how I could go about understanding it. By crushing Kabrinskia's army, it just crippled Kabrinskia's retaliation after Terran's driving Demyansk rogue: meaning it just gave Terran a big 'ole edge. Frankly, that's not fun to me. I would rather like to see Terran (and allies) smash Kabrinskia's armies in the field. We're more than capable of doing it.
ICly, Karana finds this downright hilarious.
OOCly, I also find this downright hilarious. It may have something to do with Karana being in discussions with Haktoo about bringing the Glowing Aegis of the Zuma to her... when Brom defected to Kabrinskia.
Though the "If you're in my way, you shouldn't be" theory still holds up nicely.
The Zuma are a mobile natural disaster. If you think of them in those terms then they're really kinda cool, but if you're gonna get frustrated because you can't use diplomacy on a tornado they're gonna suck. And if for some reason you think that an enemy has that ability they're gonna look really unfair until that enemy is standing right at ground zero.
There's nothing cool about natural disasters, especially natural disasters that can so easily be influenced.
All it took was 1 damn advy to send a blatant forgery that could easily be proved as a fake to send the Zuma on a rampage against the 'moot, causing much damage and costing us much gold and unique items.
1 advy +1 forgery.
That's all.
I fail to see the fun in how easy it is to manipulate this "natural disaster".
Then that is because you have willfully ignored everything that has been said to you about the Zuma in the past few months.
Or, well, maybe not everything, but certainly one important thing often enough that you ought to be able to recite it in your sleep by now:
Haktoo will never be fooled by that kind of trick again.
Good. Because it pissed a lot of players off.
Good. Because it pissed a lot of players off.
Letter from Glaumring Apasurain (9 hours, 43 minutes ago)
Message sent to all full members of "Sanguis Astroism" (78 recipients)
In my day we led revolts against inept leaders. And that is what seperates us.
Glaumring did indeed advocate a rebellion in Kabrinskia. And Allison is not an inept leader.
I'm sure that's not an OOC sentiment, and should be handled IC.
How is that advocating rebellion? I made a statement regarding my own experience and the extreme I went to in dealing with inept leadership. I was making fun of him, and you all for allowing your leader to let the daimons into your kingdom. And only when things go bad do you state your opposition to it. You have no courage of conviction. I pointed it out, yet the deeper meaning was lost on you. Lady Ogren is one to talk about rebellion.
How is that advocating rebellion? I made a statement regarding my own experience and the extreme I went to in dealing with inept leadership. I was making fun of him, and you all for allowing your leader to let the daimons into your kingdom. And only when things go bad do you state your opposition to it. You have no courage of conviction. I pointed it out, yet the deeper meaning was lost on you. Lady Ogren is one to talk about rebellion.
Letter from Thomas Greyson (14 hours, 14 minutes ago)
Message sent to all full members of "Sanguis Astroism" (78 recipients)
Daimons are not beasts. They are not unthinking, unfeeling brutes.
Daimons are capable of complicated though and incredible feats of strength, agility, and endurance.
Daimons are powerful, they possess powers that we cannot match, and they have their armour on their skin.
Daimons are not to be trifled with, betrayed, insulted or threatened.
Daimons can be reasoned with, if they have not been insulted. They have leaders and rulers, they have peons and peasants.
This lord Fang Fang is one such, an "Enforcer" if you will. He has very little independent thought of his own, and any attempts at diplomacy would need to take place with his leader.
Thomas Greyson of Solaria
Knight of the Temple of Sanguis Astroism
Letter from Glaumring Apasurain (13 hours, 57 minutes ago)
Message sent to all full members of "Sanguis Astroism" (78 recipients)
The hydra once again raises its heads in these halls.
Glaumring Apasurain of Asylon
Knight of the Temple of Sanguis Astroism and King of Asylon
Letter from Rabisu Daycryn (13 hours, 56 minutes ago)
Message sent to all full members of "Sanguis Astroism" (78 recipients)
Brother Thomas,
That Daimons can think, have incredible strength, agility, endurance, armored skin, and powers does not change the fact that they are nonetheless beasts. Creatures of fang and fear, which shun the Stars - in the words of our Most Holy Prophet. And they are certainly brutes; whether thinking and feeling or not, they are inhumanly mighty and loathsome things which have no love for man, for the Stars, for all our works.
Rabisu Daycryn of Kabrinskia, Priest of Sanguis Astroism
Invocator of the Cup of Sanguis Astroism
Letter from Thomas Greyson (13 hours, 50 minutes ago)
Message sent to all full members of "Sanguis Astroism" (78 recipients)
Brother Rabisu,
If they can rationalize, if they are capable of thought and if they can plan, than they are much more than beasts in my humble opinion.
Thomas Greyson of Solaria
Knight of the Temple of Sanguis Astroism
Letter from Glaumring Apasurain (13 hours, 50 minutes ago)
Message sent to all full members of "Sanguis Astroism" (78 recipients)
Yet you allow them into your lands without protest?
Glaumring Apasurain of Asylon
Knight of the Temple of Sanguis Astroism and King of Asylon
Letter from Rabisu Daycryn (12 hours, 18 minutes ago)
Message sent to all full members of "Sanguis Astroism" (78 recipients)
Brother Glaumring,
I must point out that neither brother Thomas nor myself have authority to allow, or for that matter disallow, anyone into our lands.
Rabisu Daycryn of Kabrinskia, Priest of Sanguis Astroism
Invocator of the Cup of Sanguis Astroism
Letter from Glaumring Apasurain (11 hours, 51 minutes ago)
Message sent to all full members of "Sanguis Astroism" (78 recipients)
In my day we led revolts against inept leaders. And that is what seperates us.
Glaumring Apasurain of Asylon
Knight of the Temple of Sanguis Astroism and King of Asylon
definitely no one even suggested it after it was made perfectly crystal-clear by the Zuma GM that such a thing would never happen again!
Regarding the Zuma, I do try to get IC information. I try very hard. I get cold-shouldered very hard. Because I the player enjoy knowing what's going on even if Hireshmont the character doesn't know, I ask around on the forum.
Really? You don't say? Wow, that's the first I, or the Zuma GM heard of that kind of sentiment!
Thanks, Geronus, for opening my eyes to that, which I would never have known without you pointing it out to me. That feeling certainly wasn't expressed hundreds of times across a half-dozen different threads on the forum after the incident happened, and definitely no one even suggested it after it was made perfectly crystal-clear by the Zuma GM that such a thing would never happen again!
Why is all of this even being discussed here instead of acted upon IC? The Zuma (like many things) are an in-game element. They don't post on the forums. Carefully reasoned lines of criticism on the forums don't find their way into the way the faction is played. If people devoted half as much energy IC as they do to some of these forum threads, we'd have reached the BM Singularity by now.
Unless the IC issues affect the players themselves... then it becomes an OOC issue as well. NOW PLEASE... can we get this back to a conversation about the conflict itself and not the Zuma? Or else I'm just going to ask that this thread be closed. Nothing good is coming from it right now.
Unless the IC issues affect the players themselves... then it becomes an OOC issue as well. NOW PLEASE... can we get this back to a conversation about the conflict itself and not the Zuma? Or else I'm just going to ask that this thread be closed. Nothing good is coming from it right now.
Uh... I guess you haven't noticed but the Zuma have landed right smack in the middle of the conflict itself. They are, for the moment, the single most important factor in the conflict. Kind of hard to get back "to a conversation about the conflict itself" without talking about the Zuma.They have single handedly stopped the war for all intents and purposes.
I don't think the war has been stopped. If Karbinskia and the Zuma could fight together during the same battle against Terran then I would say it has. But since the Zuma just fought the Kabrinskia army that doesn't seem to be the case. I think Terran and Barca can take on FangFang.
It doesn't matter much if things were said that "this will never happen again" (which, as far as most people know, has not even been promised). The damage was already done. It's like hitting a child in the face with an axe and then promising it's not going to happen again.
So, as far as anyone knows IC, FangFang could have just been passing through? Has it proceeded further south? Where's it going? What's actually going on down there now?Fang Fang is staying in Demyansk at the moment and as far as I know there has been no communication with Haktoo or fang fang.
So, as far as anyone knows IC, FangFang could have just been passing through? Has it proceeded further south? Where's it going? What's actually going on down there now?
I dunno actually. We haven't heard anything about the Zuma entering our lands yet, but, then again, we didn't notice when FangFang marched north either, sooo...... take Terran's observational capacities with a grain of salt.
no he is not moving yet, just being optimistic
no he is not moving yet, just being optimisticjust go give him a lil' shove, all friendly-like.
no thats ok I have orders to stay out of Demyansk at the moment
That didn'T stop you all first time around. ;)
To be fair, they didn't know they had orders to not enter Demanysk that time.
Who said anything about being fair? ;)
Well I tried... I'll tell Fang Fang to go back to fighting Terran then.
It really is too bad the zuma protect us while we refit and stall for time. :-)
Fang Fang is still not moving, just sitting in Demyansk.
Thats how they grow their army... Using something in the rogue lands. Its part of their secret.
Then that is because you have willfully ignored everything that has been said to you about the Zuma in the past few months.
Or, well, maybe not everything, but certainly one important thing often enough that you ought to be able to recite it in your sleep by now:
Haktoo will never be fooled by that kind of trick again.
Really? You don't say? Wow, that's the first I, or the Zuma GM heard of that kind of sentiment!
Thanks, Geronus, for opening my eyes to that, which I would never have known without you pointing it out to me. That feeling certainly wasn't expressed hundreds of times across a half-dozen different threads on the forum after the incident happened, and definitely no one even suggested it after it was made perfectly crystal-clear by the Zuma GM that such a thing would never happen again!
So... Is Anaris the Zuma GM?
*puts on tin-foil hat* Or maybe he just wants us to think he's the Zuma GM? :o
A very interesting turn of events.
Roleplaying Event (7 hours, 18 minutes ago)
Message sent to everyone in the vicinity of Demyansk (28 recipients)
The Daimons that have been rampaging around the region of Demyansk for days finally seem to calm down, their anger and starvation perhaps sated. Although they still make a few noises, peasants that come into view are no longer chased down and devoured.
Fang Fang
Does this mean that Fang Fang is no longer on murderous? Maybe the war can continue now.
I think it means that Kabrinksia should charge into the region on murderous. After all, those daimons should be fat and slow now, easy targets.
lol ..... I don't think so
I am not the Zuma GM.
*I* am not the Zuma GM!
No, I am Spartacus!
No, I am Spartacus!
what does Spartacus have to do with anything?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8h_v_our_Q
Get cultured! ;D
What if we are all the Zuma GM?
It's like some crazy algorithmic extraction of everyone's personalities and qualities all meshed into one hive mind vehicle of destruction and terror.
THAT is why the Zuma are so unpredictable and sporadic!
What if we are all the Zuma GM?
It's like some crazy algorithmic extraction of everyone's personalities and qualities all meshed into one hive mind vehicle of destruction and terror.
THAT is why the Zuma are so unpredictable and sporadic!
Wow. Just wow.
But, as everyone knows.... actually, I am the Zuma GM. I'm just full of self-loathing.
which is why I asked for this thread to be closed.
Fight the Zuma if they're getting in the way.
Yes, actually.
Be my guest, then, go fight the Zuma.
We'll just sit back and applaud.
'cause I'd find it about as entertaining as banging my head on a pike.
Indeed, there's no more war to talk about, now that the Zuma stepped in.
Hurray!
That is the attitude that opens the door for the Zuma to interfere with human affairs. I find waiting around cowering at the sight of the Zuma to be no fun at all, I'd rather fight them and lose everything rather than sit around and do nothing.
Your choice.
The zuma are just sitting in Demyansk.
Kabrinskia, for right now. My boy isn't too happy with Kabrinskia siding with Zuma.
They're waiting for all of Kabrinskia to get there so they can give them a friendly hug.
Your choice.
Nothing is stopping you from doing it either, bub.
Pretty tempting to roll into Demy on Murderous and just laugh at the ensuing carnage, but since it was you that suggested it, Chenier, I know it's a Bad Idea.
Edit: That said, the ball's there for someone else to pick up...
Nothing is stopping you from doing it either, bub.
I was in Netherworld prison for a few days for that exact reason, bub.who are you in game?
I was in Netherworld prison for a few days for that exact reason, bub.
If that the "fun" part you were referring to?
My ideas are always pure gold!
But it's really T-Rex's idea. I just told him he could do it himself.
I did that long before you told me. 8)
Nah, you just did a little skirmish.
Spark a war! The Zuma are still at "Peace" with Kabrinskia, which is better relations than with all other realms save one.
Why should we attack the only ally that we have that is supporting us in this war?
Because they're Daimons?
They are at peace with us and Asylon.
Why did Terran/barca/asylon attack the zuma when they had the chance. they ran away instead. The Zuma is here to stay for now. Get used to it. They are a valid player on this side of the island and cannot be ignored.
Then indeed, be my guest! Go teach the Zuma a lesson!
Get the whole SA block to back you, too.
Nah, you just did a little skirmish.
Spark a war! The Zuma are still at "Peace" with Kabrinskia, which is better relations than with all other realms save one.
Why should we attack the only ally that we have that is supporting us in this war?
Because they're Daimons?
Because they're Daimons?
Because the 'moot would like you to do their work for them. Good rule of thumb: discount any helpful advice they give, because it's never given without some clear strategic benefit for them in mind. ;)
So it doesnt feel like a pact with the devil yet does it?
There is a good possibility that this will eventually happen. The Holy Prophet has already foreseen it in a prophecy. Wait til most of the island has joined SA, then the Holy Prophet calls a holy crusade against the daimons.
ya, they want us to do their work for them alright. They could have dealt with the zuma long ago but decided to run away instead. The Zuma are not attacking our forces, And I do not want to get them started either.
Destroy the Zuma, and THEN I'll convert. I have no plan on being SA's meatshield.
Because the 'moot would like you to do their work for them. Good rule of thumb: discount any helpful advice they give, because it's never given without some clear strategic benefit for them in mind. ;)
Actually, interestingly, before Kabrinskia moved back into Demyansk, we were massing on the border to attack the Zuma.
This thread is too long to read, too boring to reply to, too specific to troll, and I'm too powerless to lock.
+1 Someone please lock this thread...There is no good reason to lock this thread
If it is too long to read and too boring to reply to, then do not read or reply.Then make it interesting.
Problem solved!
+1 Someone please lock this thread...
Stop talking about closing the thread. I like this thread.
Meta posts about posts about locking threads should be in their own thread.You don't want to go down this path.
As opposed to someone doing something foolish *in* (rogue), like last time?
We hope it is fixed. Sometimes I gamble big. This has the potential for disaster...
Yeah, this could be bad. And dustole, damn you for dragging me into it! :P
I ran to split votes, I really wanted Allison to win.
Anyway, how's the war going?
With the Zuma steamrolling again, of course the war's stopped to a screeching halt. Now we will see Terran obliterated, possibly Barca and Asylon.That's not a screeching halt. That's progress.
Plus we have peaceful and strong relations with the Zuma.So did Kabrinskia.
...Allison wasn't a candidate...
So did Kabrinskia.
I am aware of that, after she pulled out I still ran to muddle up voting since its near impossible to break the Kabrinskian/Astrum voting cabal. The church is essentially yours now anyways.
Huh? There is no such thing as a 'Kabrinskian/Astrum voting cabal'.
I may sound like a broken record, but I can just point out how BORING the Zuma have made this war?
Ever since they showed up the war ground to a stand still! Bah!
This war can't be any good as long as Zuma is involved. I think it is bad that they've interfered, and I remember saying that, when the war first started, that it should be an even and dynamic war as long as the Zuma don't get involved. Sadly - they did and it doesn't seem like they've spiced it up.
a 3 on 1 war is not even or dynamic. you are just upset that the Zuma actually evens the odds.
Terran should offer terms of their surrender now we would only want 1-2 regions in compensation for the damage Terran has caused to Demyansk. I am sure that would be reasonable. Terran should offer up tribute to Kabrinskia and continue to pay Tribute for the foreseeable future. Say 1000 bushels of food every month and 1000 gold as well.
No, I'm upset that the war is BORING and that the Zuma have added ZERO fun to the game in the terms of this war so far. If the Zuma DO SOMETHING, at least it would be interesting and fun.
Wow... you realize Terran isn't even trying to takeover Kabrinskian regions, right? And you want Terran to give away 1-2 regions and pay tributes? That is nuts.
Wow... you realize Terran isn't even trying to takeover Kabrinskian regions, right? And you want Terran to give away 1-2 regions and pay tributes? That is nuts.
Fight them, then complain when you lose. That's the accepted order of things.
We would fight them. We just can't fight the Zuma and Kabrinskia together.
Why fight only when you are assured of victory? Is that cowardice? Or I guess just intelligence in following Sun Tzu.
I think the zuma make the war pretty funny. Watching the different sides complaining, manipulating, and dancing around the nuclear bomb potential of the Zuma. It may not make the war any better for Terran, but I'm loving it.
Right, because the "fun" it provides to non-involved observers is worth the stagnation on whole realms' war efforts?
The pleasure of watching other people's misery is not good basis for game policies.
Pffft Asylon obliterated...lol, we currently have an army larger than both Kabrinskia and Terran combined.
I do have to admit that I get almost as much fun reading all the complaints on the forums... .... The stubborn pigheadedness it takes to keep bitching about something to people that can't change it is simply astonishing.
Good game policy? Maybe not. But then, like we've said many, many times, none of us can change a damn thing about the Zuma. You want that changed, convince Tom. And you're not going to do that with all this belly-aching in this thread. That should be obvious.
I do have to admit that I get almost as much fun reading all the complaints on the forums as I get from reading all the chest pounding, posturing, and bravado on the ruler's channel. I mean, how many times do we have to tell you that we can't do anything about it before you believe us? The stubborn pigheadedness it takes to keep bitching about something to people that can't change it is simply astonishing.
sorry I misquoted.....
Aslylon should be able to take on the Zuma all by them selves. Terran, Dhara's, and Barca's help should just be icing on the cake
Please don't think I am complaining about the Zuma. I do not like them but I think it funny that they are aiding Kabrinskia. I was worried about the 3 on 1 odds, but now I see that Allison had an ace up her sleeve and it worked. we are getting our regions back into shape and setting militia in peace for now. when it comes time to attack again we will be well prepared and the Zuma will be attacking with us. I think that it is just great.
Ya we lost a quarter of our army in a stupid mistake in communication. But now that we understand the Zuma much more, I doubt that will happen again.
You only see the 10 000 CS that moved up north.
We only see the rest of the countless and, as far as we know, infinite CS that remains around Nightmarch.
The reason Kabrinskia is losing is 100% Allison's fault. She pissed off all of her southern neighbors. Every one of them. And the only reason we didn't all go completely all-in to wipe Kabrinskia off the map is because we don't feel like having a big war with Astrum right now. Not because we fear Astrum, but just because it's not our objective.
Allison wanted war, and now you are whining that war is what you got. Despite the fact that the ones involved are seriously holding back.
First of all I was merely quoting what was said in this thread, Katayanna can only see what the scout reports show her.
And Kabrinskia is not losing or winning. and neither are the Terran/Barca/Asylon/Dhara coalition.
Seems pretty clear to me that had the daimons not interfered, things were looking rather bad for Kabrinskia.
Maybe Allison shouldn't have stolen lands they had agreed to Asylon after we cleaned up the Itau incident.
If it had been a one on one war the way it should have been, it would have been a fair fight and an interesting war. But no, Dhara, Barca, and Asylon had to get involved.
If it had been a one on one war the way it should have been, it would have been a fair fight and an interesting war. But no, Dhara, Barca, and Asylon had to get involved.
What lands are you talking about.
The way it "should" have been? lol? What are you talking about?
Also, D'Hara didn't get involved. Barca is only involved every few weeks at best. Asylon is purely defensive as of now.
I'm just a bit frustrated that we had the first war against an SA realm that didn't devolve into some kind of crusading fight-to-the-death style gangbang... and it's been stopped by the Zuma. Please look at any comment I've ever made about the Zuma connected with the phrase "chilling effect."
Mech Alb and Elets
If it had been a one on one war the way it should have been, it would have been a fair fight and an interesting war. But no, Dhara, Barca, and Asylon had to get involved.
Interesting that this takes place after Garret left and this is the first time a SA realm on the west was in any sort of real danger.
You will have to let me in on it. as that must have happened before I arrived in Kabrinskia
Mech Alb and Elets
If it had been a one on one war the way it should have been, it would have been a fair fight and an interesting war. But no, Dhara, Barca, and Asylon had to get involved.
I think it is pretty well known that Asylon took in a lot of Caerwyn refugees. We tried to integrate them into our realm and gave one the position of Judge. The player tried to keep up the Caerwyn conflict while in Asylon by being an ass to Allison and she decided to take Mech Alb as retribution for insulting letters. Asylon had other things to worry about at the time and let her have it, assuming that it would come to bite her ass again later on (which it did until the Zuma got involved). Not sure why we let her take Elets but it happened at the same time. Was probably mismanagement on our part, concentrating on the more northern regions.
Anyone who was paying attention to the island for the last, oh, two RL years, would know that picking a fight with any of the Moot realms would get you into war with all three. I warned Allison about this IC before she started the war.
So get over this "fair fight" garbage. Kabrinskia knew what it was getting into before they started the war that both sides wanted. To claim otherwise is criminal negligence or OOC metagaming.
So your saying that because Asylon took in many of the refugees from Caerwyn that that gives Asylon claim on the regions that they lost due to war. I think that is a bit presumptuous of Asylon.
I am not sure but did Asylon war Caerwyn? If not then they deserve none of the War Prizes. If they did then it appears to me that they got more than their fair share already.
Anyone who was paying attention to the island for the last, oh, two RL years, would know that picking a fight with any of the Moot realms would get you into war with all three. I warned Allison about this IC before she started the war.
So get over this "fair fight" garbage. Kabrinskia knew what it was getting into before they started the war that both sides wanted. To claim otherwise is criminal negligence or OOC metagaming.
You know your right, but also I am tired of hearing that bringing in the zuma is not fair. It is we have an agreement with the Zuma and that agreement is to war Terran. Let the war commence.
If it had been a one on one war the way it should have been, it would have been a fair fight and an interesting war. But no, Dhara, Barca, and Asylon had to get involved.
Pretty simple strategy here. You need to fight a war of attrition with the Zuma since they cannot maintain their CS once they're engaged in earnest. Sure, if they blow up your army you have to go refit, but you'll leave a nice dent in theirs too. Then next time you fight them they're not as strong. And then the third time you blow them apart. They don't have a capital a couple days' travel away, and their leader is probably just as killable as a hero assuming Fang Fang functions in the same vein as Nightfall/Midnight/Darkest Hour/Overlord/Every other Daimon leader in the game.
It's not unwinnable by any stretch of the imagination, you just refuse to even try. Using OOC complaining to beat them looks pretty sad.
Except for the fact that they regenerate CS in the field while other realms must travel to their capital.
Except for the fact that they regenerate CS in the field while other realms must travel to their capital.
Also, I would like to point out that everyone who is complaining about the "unlimited troops" of the Zuma would like to look and see that they are only using one unit, that was already outside of Zuma lands, in this war. That seems pretty limited to me...
You need more scouts. Haktoo and Flame are already on the way, each controlling more troops. For Asylon it isn't simply a matter of just fighting the Zuma. We were the first realm to enter a peaceful relations with them and much of our RP has been based on maintaining relations with them.
We also know that they can summon what appears to be unlimited amounts of troops from the Volcano with no repercussions as these events have been witnessed since players began exploring the regions.
One unit amongst many controlled by one gm... Yeah so limited.
I hope you'll forgive an ignorant Lurian for butting in, but I though I'd heard that Haktoo was there for some sort of diplomatic powwow with the Astroists?
I'd also like to point out that this statement lacks any sort of evidence to back up the "with no repercussions".
Imagine an army besieging a capital and the capitol has 5k cs defenders in it. Then all of a sudden when the turn comes around there are 10k cs worth of defenders. This could be seen as "summoning troops" and there are no apparent repercussions. However, we all know there are legitimate game mechanics behind this. We don't need to actually know how many troops are in a human realm recruitment center to know they have a limit, and neither do we need to know the exact same for the Zuma. They are limited and they have specific things they require.
I hope you'll forgive an ignorant Lurian for butting in, but I though I'd heard that Haktoo was there for some sort of diplomatic powwow with the Astroists?I beleive Haktoo is meeting with Brance in Golden Farrow on religious matters.
I beleive Haktoo is meeting with Brance in Golden Farrow on religious matters.
but also I am tired of hearing that bringing in the zuma is not fair.
I am a bit annoyed that so far Asylons contacts/communications with the Zuma have been
Ignored for weeks now. And now here they are joining in on a war.
Honestly who is the Zuma gm and does he have a character human in Dwilight? Because seriously it feels like the Zuma gm massively hates everyone except for a few players , like how the hell does Malus of Solaria know the Zuma Gm is busy in real life with me thinking some players know and deal with him ooc... Who is the zuma gm, and why do some players know him and some of us dont?
I see no reason stuff like this shouldn't be public knowledge; it would help a lot with impartiality, complaints, etc. But I don't make the rules, I guess.
Guys... I'm the Zuma Gm... Its awesome...
Mystery solved!
Mystery solved!
If the GM plays on Dwilight, they should not have a character here AT ALL. Is the Zuma gm's human character in Kabrinskia?
You're right then we could actually complain and be rude to someone we actually know and can ruin their game on their other characters just to get back at them?
That could possibly be one reason.
God forbid such an influential and powerful player be subject to the same pressures and realities as the rest of us.
Besides, no one says they have to come on the forums and listen to us belly-achers.
That's nothing at all what I'm saying.
People could abuse their other characters IC for the OOC reasons of their hate for the Zuma. People could send OOC messages to that player's character asking why the Zuma did this, why the Zuma does that. I believe it has nothing to do with whether they read the stuff on the forum.
I have no clue who the Zuma GM is, (although Malus knowing narrows down the field a bit), but I just think they have a right to their privacy while they contribute extra time to add an element to the game that the game maker, at the very minimum, wants to have added to the game.
you have to approach the Zuma in the proper manner. You also have to arrange meetings it isnt good to just impose yourself on them. I arranged for a noble to be in Haktoos court so Kabrinskia could remain in contact with the zuma this whole time. They dont exchange letters. the zuma arent easy to figure out. Also I knew the zuma gm was busy because he said so. He also said it would take a while to get to GF. I dont think the gm has a character on Dwilight. Also this whole thing evoled slowly. I told Glaumring the zuma would get involved back before Asylon got into the war. Either he forgot or ignored it. I saw an Rp from someones ambassador to the Zuma and it was bad. When this is all over I will tell you how I learned to talk to the Zuma. I pissed Haktoo off a few times but learned a lot in the process. You cant just show up and expect them to listen to you. How is it that youve lived this close to the Zuma for so long and know so little about them? Fostering a discussion/debate/friendship with the zuma takes a long time. Ive been at it for months
Again though, are we not all susceptible to this?
Fair enough. But the game maker feels that his GM's deserve extra protections for extra additions to the game. That's his decision to make, not mine, and I don't see it as unreasonable.
'Was just saying I, personally, thought it would be reasonable. *shrug*
Seriously? How many other players do you know with 40-page hate threads dedicated to them? If he/she/it wants to remain anonymous, more power to them.
The Zuma are here to stay and the GM's identity is a well kept secret for good reason.
So stop complaining about it and move on.
We tried, once.maybe for you and those that are on the wrong side of the Zuma, but for those that are on the right side it is not so bad.
We've been leaving them alone since the last Zuma conflict.
Now they're back, mucking crap up and ruining good wars.
We've been leaving them alone since the last Zuma conflict.
Maybe that's what you did wrong. Do you think Tom gave control of the Zuma to the GM so he could play his own little single player game of BM? Or do you think he gave the GM control so he could contribute something to Dwilight? If only one realm of those surrounding Zuma territory takes the time to properly interact with the Zuma and the rest ignore them, then what contribution to Dwilight do you think the Zuma will make, if not to support that realm in some way?
maybe for you and those that are on the wrong side of the Zuma, but for those that are on the right side it is not so bad.
Maybe that's what you did wrong. Do you think Tom gave control of the Zuma to the GM so he could play his own little single player game of BM? Or do you think he gave the GM control so he could contribute something to Dwilight? If only one realm of those surrounding Zuma territory takes the time to properly interact with the Zuma and the rest ignore them, then what contribution to Dwilight do you think the Zuma will make, if not to support that realm in some way?
Exactly.
It's just not fun. It is just a game of "suck up to this one player." and then you have multiple, if not unlimited, thousands of CS seemingly at your disposal. That isn't dynamic, that isn't what BM should be about, it isn't even strategic or political, it's just suck up to a GM and what the GM wants for the island.
At least not for Dwilight. We have Beluaterra for that, why have two islands for that? And even Beluaterra at least has a stated goal: the Daimons want to destroy humanity and the island, these guys are just a random enigma whose attitude and desires seem to change from week to week. Hell, you can't even get them to talk to you half the time. And when you're upset that they won't everyone just says "you aren't doing it right, you have too dance a little jig and turn around three times and THEN try to talk to them." It's just silliness and its arbitrary and has absolutely no consistent RP basis.
how is that different from dealing with a king or a dictator in BM. your only dealing with a single person the only difference is that a human character has many nobles to carry out his/her threats or orders.
Treat the zuma like you would any other realm. you just have to talk to them on their terms.
Except the Zuma have zero internal conflicts, zero room for error in fighting wars, single units with 10,000 CS, no chance for a change of rulership, no religion, no political division, and complete unity of their forces and can declare war willy nilly with practically zero political ramifications.
These are major differences from a human realm that majorly alter the game.
Does the MOOT fear the Zuma.... Yes, I think that is their greatest weakness.
Obviously... you've never fought them.
It is unreal.
I have on BT long ago, well not katayanna anyway.
Though I did not like being on the receiving end. We did beat them back But there were just too many of them unlike Dwilight where there are a relatively few Zuma units/characters running around.
Yeah, if Fang Fang was on BT Thalmarkin would already be cleaning Daimon-guts out from between the treads of their boots, and they're not a real big realm.
My Dwilight Char is far from the Zuma but if my BT character was on Dwilight he'd be calling for the Zuma to be exterminated. They are too big of a risk to humanity to let live. He would have been an ardent supporter of the Manifest Path... too bad its gone.
lol I bet he would.
:)
The Zuma aren't going to kill themselves. Time to get to business and take those lands that ought to rightfully be ruled by humans, according to our birthright.
LOL you have already made them a political force on Dwilight. One that those that are willing to take the risks will wish to use to their own ambitions and in some cases manipulation.
The game needs more people willing to gamble big and shake things up. Some parts of the game are far too stagnant because the rulers and by extension the realm are unwilling to take risks. So, I am looking forward to reading more about this conflict vicariously through the forum. :)
I have on BT long ago, well not katayanna anyway.
Though I did not like being on the receiving end. We did beat them back But there were just too many of them unlike Dwilight where there are a relatively few Zuma units/characters running around.
Out-of-Character from Malus Solari (1 hour, 22 minutes ago)
The Zuma GM is very busy with RL stuff. Not everything is a personal slight.
Aaron Champion
----- wtf how does he know the gm is busy and I dont?
I'm not complaining that it isn't fair (even though it is), I'm just complaining that it is boring as crap.
The Zuma have (so far) turned an at first exciting and engaging human v. human war into a sit and wait human v. NPC war. It was fun even when Kabrinskia was looting through Terran. It was real action for once, and action we could potentially counter. No it is sit and wait and do nothing. And if the Zuma go offensive against us, it will be a slaughter vs. an over powered and single-person controlled unit. It's just simply not fun.
Same for Terran.
I have been king a short time as of late, prior to that the Zuma stayed out of our business and Asylon focused on our issues with Caerwyn. We traded food and thats it we ignored them and then all of a sudden the Zuma started being front and center, bellicose and rude, and ignoring communications even when ambassadors were sent.
The Zuma used to come to Asylon and help fight monsters, we spoke often enough and made peace now its a 360 in everything who they were.
You know your right, but also I am tired of hearing that bringing in the zuma is not fair. It is we have an agreement with the Zuma and that agreement is to war Terran. Let the war commence.
I try to respond to anyone that interacts with the Zuma. I cannot recall anyone from Terran actually trying to communicate recently. The only interaction I can recall is when I sent Vellos a message a few days ago stating exactly what Haktoo is doing at this time.
If you feel you're now being ignored, perhaps there shouldn't have been the OOC witch hunt on Garret which ended up making him leave the game.
You might not have liked him in game, but he did a lot more for all of the human realms on Dwilight than any of you were prepared to consider.
God forbid such an influential and powerful player be subject to the same pressures and realities as the rest of us.
Besides, no one says they have to come on the forums and listen to us belly-achers.
Also, I would like to point out that everyone who is complaining about the "unlimited troops" of the Zuma would like to look and see that they are only using one unit, that was already outside of Zuma lands, in this war. That seems pretty limited to me...
And beeing an Asylon player, I am a bit puzzled that Haktoo suddenly got all buddy-buddy with Kabrinskia, but maybe im just jelaous, since I and others of Asylon really put some hard work into getting friendly with the Zuma, But its clear to me now that it was a waste of time befriending Garret, who I enjoyed exhanging letters with, both IC-wise and OOC-wise, and the fact that he and I worked for a mutual beficial goal, peaceful and good relations on the common border between Asylon and the Zuma, we sold food, we did our best to apprehend Terrance(but later I was informed by Haktoo to let it be, he was no longer important) and most of all, we left the Zuma in peace, doing our best to not annoy or disturb them, just as we where told to do... So by playing by their rules we kinda lost it...
(bah, now i am starting to sound bitter so enough about my hurt feelings ;).)
1. Asylon isnt really ganging up on Kabrinskia, she have been poking us and provoking us with demands and threats for as long as that nation has existed, we have played nice as we was more focused on getting stability in our nation that doubled or trippled over just a few days/weeks. Eventually we had enough when she was threatning us that she would set the Zuma on us if we got involved in the war.
I made no demands or threats I just asked for the terms they wanted for peace.
Right, because the "fun" it provides to non-involved observers is worth the stagnation on whole realms' war efforts?
The pleasure of watching other people's misery is not good basis for game policies.
Speak for yourself. If there was ever an MMO called 'Laugh At Their Pain' I'd sign up immediately.
I'll say again what I've said many times: the Zuma are a vacuum for every event in the area. No matter what we do, no matter how we go about it, everything always ends up with the Zuma. It seems increasingly impossible to have anything happen that is independent of the Zuma. I'm not sure why Tom believes this is fun, but presumably he does.
Replace "the Zuma" with "Terran" or "Kabrinskia", and you'll probably find that it's the same.
They're a power in that area. Trying to pretend they don't exist, or expecting that they'll pretend you don't exist, seems to me to be pretty unrealistic.
Think of them as another realm, and a lot of your complaints about them suddenly sound really absurd.
I'm just going to ask that this thread be closed again. People can't keep from turning this into a flame fest about the Zuma.
Think of them as another realm, and a lot of your complaints about them suddenly sound really absurd.
*bites his tongue* So, because I'm not particularly interested in reading the same complaints yet again, what's up with Barca and Aurvandil? Seems like the Moot might have another headache to worry about? I thought Barca used to be close to Aurvandil, what happened to that?
So perhaps we should lay off the flame war and just see what happens before coming to the forums and accusing the Zuma GM, someone who has taken their own time to help the game, of stuff he hasn't even done yet.
(after all they are the aggressors so the ball is in their court).
Kabrinskia was not the aggressor in this war, Terran declared war on us. There was posturing on both sides before that but nothing aggressive until war was declared.
Allison has been running around the Moot causing trouble for quite a bit of time before the official war declaration was issued. Provoking someone into declaring war doesn't mean your not an aggressor, it just means your clever about it. And Terran has even declared they have no desire to conquer any Kabrinskian regions.
Kabrinskia was not the aggressor in this war, Terran declared war on us. There was posturing on both sides before that but nothing aggressive until war was declared.
As I said, Kabrinskia is not the aggressor, Terran is. I admit that there was lots of posturing before hand but that was on both sides. Terran declared war that makes them the aggressor. Maybe an unwilling aggressor, but the aggressor nonetheless. They did not have to declare war, they did not have to let Allison control them so easily. They could have taken the high ground and ignored Allison. they did not and now they are the aggressor in the war.
Do you actually, OOC, believe that?
Hell, a few posts ago you were saying how Terran should hand over 1-2 regions and pay tribute, and you're saying Terran is the aggressor?
All Terran wants and is asking for is her sovereignty to be respected, we basically just declared war so we could arrest any the nobles Allison kept sending through to purposefully break our treaty.
That is a bit like saying that because Britain and France declared war on Hitler in 1939 that it makes them the aggressor.
No, Kabrinskia broke the treaty, that makes them the aggressor.
No matter how you spin it, Kabrinskia is the aggressor in this war.
It doesnt matter who started it. We were about to declare war anyway. The only thing that matters is who wins....
And what harm was being done by traders entering Terran lands to trade? Oh and a priest headed to Zuma lands to speak to Haktoo.
What Treaty?
It doesnt matter who started it. We were about to declare war anyway. The only thing that matters is who wins....
It broke the treaty.
The Demyansk Accord (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Terran/Demyansk_Accord)
The treaty that said the borders were closed unless specific permission was given by either nation for the other nation's nobles to pass through.
Look, just because your character doesn't realize Allison is scheming and manipulative and only tells your realms biased info, doesn't mean you the player has to believe that, too.
And yes, it was an actual in-game treaty too. It was replaced by the "Terran Reiteration of Sovereignty" when Kabrinskia started sending nobles in to purposefully violate the Demyansk Accord.
isn't that an accord or declaration of closed borders, not a treaty.
OK, Kabrinskia violated the closed border and that is a valid reason to declare war. but we did not break a treaty.... sorry but it is a point of honor.
Dude, c'mon. The guy playing Allison just got on basically said he provoked it.
From Merriam-Webster's "Accord: noun: a formal reaching of agreement; a compact, treaty"
Yes, when two nations sign an agreement between them it is a treaty.
Kabrinskia broke it. Purposefully. Many times.
This is something that has baffled me frequently. So many people seem to feel, OOC, that it's VITALLY IMPORTANT that their realm not be seen as the aggressor, in any war, ever.
The important thing is, as you say, not who starts the war, but who finishes it.
Dude, c'mon. The guy playing Allison just got on basically said he provoked it.
From Merriam-Webster's "Accord: noun: a formal reaching of agreement; a compact, treaty"
Yes, when two nations sign an agreement between them it is a treaty.
Kabrinskia broke it. Purposefully. Many times.
I thought that trader had permission from Terran's banker to travel through Terran? The priest did not, as far as I know.That is what I understood.
Wasn't there a treaty signed by both realms that declared the non-travel restrictions?
It matters in the political arena. It can help you gain allies to your cause or to dissuade others from joining your enemies if you can paint yourself as the innocent victim and your enemy as the greedy aggressor/bully.
As to why it matters here, in this OOC forum? I have no clue, except to say that sometimes players get caught up in the passions of their characters. I know I do from time to time. :)
I was not under the impression that Kabrinskia ever signed the treaty. I may be wrong if I am I am sorry.
I thought that trader had permission from Terran's banker to travel through Terran? The priest did not, as far as I know.
Players have a difficult time separating OOC from IC on these forums. That makes these forums just as important for in game staging as messages sent through the game....if not more important since the forum messages reach a wider audience.
*sigh* .... yes. Yes, she signed it.
This cold war is about to get hot.
This is something that has baffled me frequently. So many people seem to feel, OOC, that it's VITALLY IMPORTANT that their realm not be seen as the aggressor, in any war, ever.
I thought that trader had permission from Terran's banker to travel through Terran? The priest did not, as far as I know.
I was not under the impression that Kabrinskia ever signed the treaty. I may be wrong if I am I am sorry.
Now that it is settled that Allison did indeed sign the treaty. what else should we discuss, other than whining about the Zuma?
The tournament timing is perfect. It's the war that has poor timing. All proper nobles schedule their entertainment around the serious business of a tournament.
Not that I know of. but I am not a diplomat, I could be wrong.
Also, to people saying that we should treat the Zuma as any other realm - that is not possible. Apples and oranges. "Any other realm" would have real flaws, such as troop movement not being 100% coordinated, individual player desires, and the possibility of destruction. I would personally have been fine with Astrum and/or Morek entering the war on Kabrinskia's side - they, at least, have equal risks to take. This is simply untrue for the Zuma.
Many people here have taken the inactivity as some kind of fiendish scheme—Fang Fang's sitting there, getting stronger! Look at him!—when in reality, the Zuma GM was simply inactive.
Brom's pending elopement with Khari Kye! Oh wait he already has his own thread.
I mean its not like the only reason for his elopement is a power grab....
You are wrong.
Also, to people saying that we should treat the Zuma as any other realm - that is not possible. Apples and oranges. "Any other realm" would have real flaws, such as troop movement not being 100% coordinated, individual player desires, and the possibility of destruction. I would personally have been fine with Astrum and/or Morek entering the war on Kabrinskia's side - they, at least, have equal risks to take. This is simply untrue for the Zuma.
Brom is actually an agent of the Moot. He infiltrates realms that are considered threats and destroys them from within. 8)
The hilarious part is that this hare-brained scheme is still working. ;D
Also, to people saying that we should treat the Zuma as any other realm - that is not possible. Apples and oranges. "Any other realm" would have real flaws, such as troop movement not being 100% coordinated, individual player desires, and the possibility of destruction. I would personally have been fine with Astrum and/or Morek entering the war on Kabrinskia's side - they, at least, have equal risks to take. This is simply untrue for the Zuma.
Worked on at least two realms so far...then your saying we should have him drawn and quartered?
then your saying we should have him drawn and quartered?
The Zuma, as far as we know and from what was said on these forums by Tom and the devs, are there to stay.
This means that they are not in any way accountable for what they do, IG. This means that we can't punish their IG actions in any way.
Because we know OOC that they would not be allowed to be destroyed, we don't bother actually trying it IG.
You assume a lot lately, in fact.
Or better yet, Brom's role in this war and how he personally has influenced the relations between the Zuma and Kabrinskia and the Zuma and Barca(/Moot)?
Or even consider what role he is having right now in the possibility or lack there of of peace in this war?
Cmon, you don't think such a change of events has no impact on the war at all do you? Perhaps I should send some more IC letters to stir up the thoughts on the issue. I mean its not like the only reason for his elopement is a power grab....
Personally, I don't find it credible either that a large military coalition would be allowed to/could wipe the Zuma out. The "get used to the Zuma" rhetoric implies exactly that.
We said we weren't going to remove them just because you bitch and moan all the time.
Only if you assume that we're all deliberately crafting our forum posts to stay on-message.
Personally, I don't know if Tom would artificially augment the Zuma if they turned out to be losing. I don't know his official position on this. But I sort of doubt it. Based on his policies in other places, I think his attitude would be along the lines of, "If they got defeated, then they deserve to be gone, and if you defeated them, you deserve their land."
People need to stop thinking they can influence IC events by OOC whining on the forum.
This is an accusation without any foundation.
Haktoo all of a sudden got buddy buddy with Kabrinskia? That "buddy buddy" aspect took months... really, months to accomplish. This isn't something that happened overnight. It was made quite clear to the rulers of Barca, Asylon, Terran and D'hara that this was happening. They all knew I was making frequent trips to the Zuma yet you all still did nothing to communicate effectively with the Zuma.
Asylon dealt with Garret. That was your own mistake. If you wanted to be peaceful with the Zuma you should have dealt directly with them.
If you're not trying to get rid of the Zuma or trying to influence the Zuma GM's decisions, then why have you, and others, been spamming this forum with your complaints about them for so long then?
Zuma is not an ordinary realm, and yes that could result in a very unfair war. The key here however is could. Yes the Zuma could summon an unlimited army, yes they could stomp Terran, yes they could dominate the whole war.
But they haven't. FangFang is a formidable force, but still a beatable one and as I said in my previous post who wins this war is by no means guaranteed simply by FangFang's arrival (if he and Allison both attack Terran, I'm pretty sure with your allies you could repel them). In fact so far the biggest impact the daimons have had is the fear and horror they have induced, both in the Moot and elsewhere. Personally I don't see how this is a problem, in fact I find it quite fun, but each unto his own.
I trust that the Zuma GM, as a GM, will not abuse the Zuma but will merely use them in a way to further add to the conflict, and not dominate it as you fear. Even if you don't have this trust, then at least wait to see if he actually does abuse his powers as you fear, rather than coming to the forums and complaining about something that hasn't happened yet.
Which I do.
Yay. We deserve worthless badlands. That'd totally be worth the trouble. And if we destroy the Zuma, we'd break ourselves in the process, and some other player (probably one better at playing Zumamaster) would come in behind us and kill us.
But, again, it's not like I think there's a solution to the problem. I think the GM has done about as good a job as he/she can be expected to, given the circumstances: but that the best that can be expected is that the Zuma will only ruin the experience for 80% of the players who interact with them. I'll reiterate what I've said: I'd be fine with the Zuma rampaging through and destroying Terran. Do it. But it's the sitting around doing nothing, shutting down every avenue for potential conflict that's bothersome. Every time something gets started, the Zuma come in and shut it down.
This is an accusation without any foundation.
If the Zuma wanted to destroy you they would. You read too far into it.
Why are members of Luria spamming a thread which has nothing to do with them?
Because yes, IC I'm a member of Luria and I couldn't give a rat's ass about all of this but OOC - and this forum is 100% OOC - I'm irritated by the incessant whining that follows every action of the Zuma one month after the other.
I'm curious to see what song you'd sing if the Zuma decided to march an army through your realms.
No, you don't. You assume.
Personally, I don't know if Tom would artificially augment the Zuma if they turned out to be losing. I don't know his official position on this. But I sort of doubt it. Based on his policies in other places, I think his attitude would be along the lines of, "If they got defeated, then they deserve to be gone, and if you defeated them, you deserve their land."
The Zuma don't have an infinite number of NPCs, nor infinite CS, nor infinite gold. They could be overrun and wiped off Dwilight if people put their mind to it.
Is it possible to put a bounty on a Daimon?
It is as possible as it is pointless.
I dunno. I could contribute 1000 gold to a bounty on, say, Screamer, if I had an IC reason to do so. Right now, Flame and Haktoo have not attacked Terran or D'Hara.
There are several bounties on daimons currently though Haktoo last I checked was the highest at 400 gold. And Screamer you could put a bounty on by inquiring about people's experiences with him since from what I have heard that should be enough reason to put a bounty on him considering I have heard he has scared the crap out of all who meet him pretty much and those who scare you many want gone.
That's the problem--people are cheapskates. The highest bounty collected is 7000. We could easily beat that.
Except that it's pointless. Someone taking a jab at the daimons isn't likely to achieve anything meaningful. Infiltrator attacks are a pretty horrible means to get anything done.
Nah. You get some infiltrator from Luria--one of those Manifest Path guys--to do it, and while the Daimons are on the march, we TO their regions.
You don't have to keep the regions, just TO them all, kill the daimons, and then let the regions go rogue. You really think that someone is going to fight those who defeated the Zuma? Anyone capable of defeating the Zuma is someone that I would want to be friendly towards, not hostile, lest they do the same to me.
You shut it down. Your character could choose to continue their war. On the other hand, your goal was to kick them out of Terran lands, so your stated goal was to sit in your own regions doing nothing.
Really? It's a coincidence that as soon as TMP was disabled, after massive whining on the forums, that the same people turned around and found something else to complain about?
I had no idea what TMP was until I read the wiki ' the manifest path'
No, more plausibly, the source of stagnation is the 10,000 CS unit controlled by one player which arrived nearly unannounced and now, two or three weeks later, despite inquiries, still hasn't been explained. Maybe, just maybe, that is the source of stagnation. But maybe I'm just crazy in thinking that giant armies sitting indefinitely on contested borders, never advancing, never retreating (do daimons not need to refit, I guess?) are a source of stagnation. Of course, that's kind of the definition of stagnation.
Stop lying.
They were unannounced to you. At least two realms knew they were heading there whilst Fang Fang was still in the Corridor of Torment, a journey that took over a week of real time travel, possibly two, I can't check the travel times any more.
Also you state that, despite enquiries, it has not been explained why they are there. You, Hireshmont II Vellos, were told, and responded to the message yesterday (yes, this was delayed as I missed your original message but it still happened before this message you have posted stating it has not been explained). Glaumring was told 13 days ago.
Just because you don't like the explanation, stop lying and stating that none has been given. As rulers of realms you have responsibilities to the players within your realm and by purposefully providing inaccurate information on the forums it just appears petty and intentionally trying to stir OOC bad feelings toward the Zuma.
So... why is Fang Fang there?
To defend Kabrinskia of course..... At least that is what I think since he is not attacking Terran.
Thank you, captain obvious.
The question is, why IS Fang Fang defending Kabrinskia? Why Haktoo, who up until to now has only acted as if humans are some kind of rodent at her feet hardly worth her attention unless we prove annoying or "disrespectful" want to defend a bunch of humans from other humans?
See, that's exactly what the realms around the Zuma have been trying to do - figure out how they roll. In one of the older threads when Terran and Co. were grumbling how hard it was to deal with the Zuma, it was said that 'talk to Garrett, he's the Ambassador, the Zuma don't like dealing with human realms directly'. So people started talking to Garrett. Now people are saying 'Garrett is useless, you should have talked to the Zuma directly' - that's where it gets frustrating.
That's just part of the process of figuring things out :) If you want a step-by-step walkthrough, there isn't one. If you talked a lot with Garrett, you could have come to eventually realize he wasn't always the best way to approach the Zuma. He was great for some information and he was a good starting point, allowing you to learn a few things about the Zuma without your words pissing off the big bad Daimons. Garrett wasn't the nicest person, but he didn't send Zuma armies towards you whenever you said something wrong (Mostly because he couldn't and was as scared of pissing off the Zuma as others).
Terran's behavior before the Zuma arrived clearly indicated that policing our own borders was not our whole objective. And Terran never claimed it was.
2. That's bullcrap about "If you can beat the Zuma, you can beat anyone." Your allies against the Zuma might not be your allies against some other realm. You might have tactics that would work against the Zuma better than against human opponents (RTOs stand out in my mind). That is serious political naivete if you think that just because a realm can knock off the biggest kid on the block that suddenly everyone will be buddy-buddy with them.
I actually do not know what you are talking about. I didn't complain about TMP. I'm not sure if Perth did either, or Graeth, or Glaumring. Talk about paranoia.
Figure. It. Out. Do something other than demand explanations on the forums. That's laziness.
Everything about this post is factually correct, which can hardly be said for several others. For example, why is everyone taking Kabrinskia at their word for the explanation of events they're giving? What's more plausible: that some people are framing the facts to best fit their needs (and maybe to mess with your heads), or that the Zuma have decided to do something that is so far unprecedented?
Well, that's not true. Your original war declaration was that you were only defending your borders, and would not invade.
Stop lying.
They were unannounced to you. At least two realms knew they were heading there whilst Fang Fang was still in the Corridor of Torment, a journey that took over a week of real time travel, possibly two, I can't check the travel times any more.
Also you state that, despite enquiries, it has not been explained why they are there. You, Hireshmont II Vellos, were told, and responded to the message yesterday (yes, this was delayed as I missed your original message but it still happened before this message you have posted stating it has not been explained). Glaumring was told 13 days ago.
Just because you don't like the explanation, stop lying and stating that none has been given. As rulers of realms you have responsibilities to the players within your realm and by purposefully providing inaccurate information on the forums it just appears petty and intentionally trying to stir OOC bad feelings toward the Zuma.
And who says others don't know as much as, more than, or different things than you do? Many people have many fingers in many pies in many places around Dwilight.
It's Allison. You'd think her foes would have learned to expect the unexpected by now, wouldn't you? People are looking for consistent reasonable and/or sensible behavior from a woman who, and I can't stress this part enough, drilled a hole in her skull to get better reception from the Blood Stars and has caused enough civil unrest to put most Lurians to shame.
Obviously there are many who know much more than we do, or this whole nonsense wouldn't have started. I'm merely saying that certain info that hasn't been shared yet on the forums makes it appear that this Allison business is about to lead to something unprecedented.
I expect craziness from Allison.
I didn't expect the Zuma GM to play along.
We knew long before the war that Allison had frequent contact with the Zuma. We periodically tried to interrupt her travels there. We even sent an ambassador of our own (who got no response; dunno why). We just didn't think that a very limited war (I mean, seriously: a war with no takeovers and explicit promise of the survival of the enemy from the get-go, as well as a pledge to never escalate conflict unless the other does so first. We didn't even invade until invaded. How much more limited of a war do you want?) was going to provoke 10,000 CS of Zuma.
How much more limited of a war do you want?) was going to provoke 10,000 CS of Zuma.
I expect craziness from Allison.
I didn't expect the Zuma GM to play along.
We knew long before the war that Allison had frequent contact with the Zuma. We periodically tried to interrupt her travels there. We even sent an ambassador of our own (who got no response; dunno why). We just didn't think that a very limited war (I mean, seriously: a war with no takeovers and explicit promise of the survival of the enemy from the get-go, as well as a pledge to never escalate conflict unless the other does so first. We didn't even invade until invaded. How much more limited of a war do you want?) was going to provoke 10,000 CS of Zuma.
Many of us on the Western half not in SA had no idea who she was until the Caerwyn war and talk about Astrum's colony. Still have no idea who this Brom fellow is that people bring up on the forum.
Haha, I was down there soon after it was made public members of Kabrinskia were making frequent contact with the Zuma. Your ambassadors just sat there threatening and insulting Haktoo. It was not well received. Not surprised they said they didn't make contact.
Asylon has ended anything. Its a ceasefire. We are waiting for something.
Oh and the Terran ambassador to the Zuma was extremely confrontational. Terran went from jewel in the crown with lots of sympathy to almost impossible to help without looking like dorkbags in the process. The whole set up before the Kabrinskian conflict was cut and dry, not this fiasco. They started a war on two fronts, you can finish a war on two fronts... Just never start there.
For what, the Zuma to go away.
Go away to where?
Haha, I was down there soon after it was made public members of Kabrinskia were making frequent contact with the Zuma. Your ambassadors just sat there threatening and insulting Haktoo. It was not well received. Not surprised they said they didn't make contact.
Asylon has ended anything. Its a ceasefire. We are waiting for something.
Oh and the Terran ambassador to the Zuma was extremely confrontational. Terran went from jewel in the crown with lots of sympathy to almost impossible to help without looking like dorkbags in the process. The whole set up before the Kabrinskian conflict was cut and dry, not this fiasco. They started a war on two fronts, you can finish a war on two fronts... Just never start there.
Oh, what's this? Some valid reason why the Zuma didn't talk all friendly-like to Terran? I am shocked. Shocked, I say! ::)
What you call a limited war is a 3 on 1 gang bang to those on the receiving end of it. Especially since Terran and Kabrinskia were fairly evenly matched to start with.
All you wanted to do was humiliate Allison with a guaranteed victory for Terran by bringing in the rest of the moot.
And as you just admitted you tried numerous times to stop Allison fro speaking with the Zuma.
Asylon has pulled out of the war now. Barca seems to have its own problems internally. Terran forces have disappeared from scout reports. either Terran is pulling out of the war as well or they are moving through Asylon regions to attack from the west (which will pull Asylon back into the war unless they are willing to let us chase down Terran forces in Asylon regions. Though I doubt that they will allow that. And that will be enough to get Astrum involved in the war. so I hope so see Terran forces attacking from the west soon. Then we can turn this into a real war. with real consequences.
For the record--since the war declaration, how many CS of Terran troops have the Zuma destroyed?
We havent pulled out anywhere, we are in ceasefire. You are fighting a war on two fronts, the Zuma and Kabrinskia. Remember how many times I told you not to start the war and then you did without alerting your allies? If I hadnt told Terran how to act you'd be ranting about Astroists right now and in a holy war. Be thankful Asylon has helped as much as we have. I hear they have elections in Republics... Thank the gods.
Um, two fronts?
What on earth are you talking about?
Here's the short version:
Allison is crazy, and controls Kabrinskia and has somehow managed to convince the Zuma to aid Kabrinskia if not directly, at the very least indirectly.
Brom is the Allison of Luria
You mean when you surprise attacked our monster-clearing team?
You mean when we brought in less than half of one of our ally's armies, and D'Hara stayed out of it?
We tried to prevent everyone from speaking with the Zuma. Why do you think we harassed and isolated Garret so much?
I think you have a very naive understanding of BM politics.
If they were destroying our armies I wouldn't be complaining. I'd much prefer that, as I have said now at least 50 times.
Surprise attack? you declared war on us and we attacked you openly and you knew it was coming
You brought in troops from Barca and Asylon, just because Asylon did not enter Kabrinskia lands does not discount their troops
So you admit you did everything in your power to prevent anyone from speaking to the Zuma because you could not
Naive? I dou
bt that
And you wonder why you are in the position you are in now. All I did was criticise your diplomat from
Ages ago and you have exploded on me.
Asylon was bound by an alliance for ages... They hardly dragged us in. Barca was the only one who came in by themselves. Kabrinskia had been causing problems for weeks if not months... Stop trying to make it seem like you guys just fell into Golden Farrow and have been bullief by the moot ever since. I know Allison.
Really? You're saying that if they came after you, you wouldn't be complaining? Well, good news everybody! The solution to this problem is easier then we could have imagined! ;D
Here's the short version:
Allison is crazy, and controls Kabrinskia and has somehow managed to convince the Zuma to aid Kabrinskia if not directly, at the very least indirectly.
Brom is the Allison of Luria, and is now engaged to Allison, promising lots of fun and conflict for all nearby realms for the foreseeable future.
The Moot leaders I can guarantee have enough IC knowledge to figure out why the Zuma are acting the way that they are right now, but likely aren't communicating the right things to each other to do so. And yes, Terran's ruler won't be the one knowing this explicit information because he isn't making the right connections. (besides from the personal contact with Haktoo)
The main thing is though, some of this knowledge that I and others have is too important IC to share on the forums openly and so it is shared purely in IC channels. Frankly though, I wouldn't be surprised if Luria had a better idea of why the Zuma are doing what they are doing than the Moot. Even though the Moot has been provided much greater evidence as to the reasons.
Yes, I'm being cryptic, and no I'm not going to say what is truly going on, because frankly I don't think OOC complaints should be rewarded with IC knowledge and it would directly harm many characters' plans in game. If you want to figure out what is happening, it may be a decent idea for more communication to be taking place among the elders of the Moot perhaps?
Okay, maybe that was mostly Chenier complaining about both TMP (Too Much Peace, not Manifest Path) and the Daimons. Sorry.
Here's what I've been trying to say:
we are quite confident in our ability to crush Kabrinskia and defeat whatever Astrum sends to save your sorry ass.
And that cavalier attitude completely disappears once the Zuma show up.
Everything Cheneir said is awesome.
he is a master whiner.
he is a master whiner.
It's true, but I wouldn't get too cocky, because you're coming off the same way yourself.
Typically, the only people I've really seen enjoying the daimons are those who don't risk being invaded by them.
Correction, My Duchy, the greatest and most beutiful Duchy of Asylon share borders with the Zuma lands at the moment, I get to stare into 20-30k of Zuma CS daily, and i STILL enjoy them. But I am one of the odd bunch in Asylon.
And this should come as a shocker?. Nobody can defeat a force which has, as far as we know, infinite CS. Or maybe a finite limit which is still way above anyone's capacity to defeat.
If we knew that they could be defeated, then we'd just mop them up too. Until then, I'd rather fight on all of SA at the same time than pick a fight with the lame GM army.
'cause I, like many others, didn't join Dwilight for player vs. npc action.
Neither of these estimations of Zuma military capability is correct.
That would be a tougher slog than the Zuma.
Yet here we are, several years after the founding of Dwilight, and the only thing that's been consistently true from day one is that the Zuma are in a pocket of SW Dwilight.
If you ask me, the Zuma GM is tired of our whining OOC, and he's just looking for any excuse to bash on us IC.
If you ask me, the Zuma GM is tired of our whining OOC, and he's just looking for any excuse to bash on us IC.
If that were true, I think the Zuma GM would be completely justified.
However, I happen to know that it's not. I may not have Tom's word on the Zuma's purpose and longevity, but I do have the Zuma GM's OOC word on why they're doing what they're doing.
I want to give GMs the benefit of the doubt, because of course whining against them is inevitable and they do accept a burden by taking on the task. But with this particular GM, that's completely lost for me. I will not forgive him for the events surrounding that forged letter.
And how do you know? Because as far as I know, you're just guessing as I am. Tom and the Zuma GMs never gave the slightest hint that, if we were dissatisfied with the Zuma, military annihilation was an option.
I think it's kind of hard not to be suspicious of being misled when the Zuma seem to jump at any chance to fight Moot realms specifically, heh.
In order to get the Aegis of the Zuma from Brom(still can't believe the 'Moot didn't snatch that up...) Allison had to marry Brom, give him 25% of Golden Farrow /and/ make him Judge of Kabrinskia. All for 1 unique item.
Nobody will ever say that Allison didn't have to personally sacrifice for her realm. :D
I am going to sound like Garret here... The 'Moot has interacted very poorly with the Zuma. It seems like no one took the time to learn about the Zuma or how to talk to them. Glaumring posted Asylons RP to the Rulers of Dwilight. He said and did things that I would never do in the presence of Haktoo. He wasn't mean or insulting, but the Zuma aren't like humans so talking to them like other humans isn't the smartest thing to do.
Also, it isn't exactly a secret and anyone who paid attention would realize this IG. Why the Barcans let Brom keep the Aegis of the Zuma I will never understand. Why no one in the 'Moot realized its importance I don't understand either. I think that is because no one from the 'moot interacted directly with the Zuma...
The Zuma have been looking for their lost unique item for RL years. I believe that when Garret negotiated peace with Barca in exchange for those unique items he was in fact looking for the shield that I now have. That is the one and only thing that the Zuma have ever said they wanted. Haktoo told me to name my reward. That is why she is coming to Golden Farrow. I will give her the shield and hopefully get my reward.
I think Garret played just about everyone who worked with the Zuma through him.
In order to get the Aegis of the Zuma from Brom(still can't believe the 'Moot didn't snatch that up...) Allison had to marry Brom, give him 25% of Golden Farrow /and/ make him Judge of Kabrinskia. All for 1 unique item.
None of that is new to me (though I'm sure it is to many players; dunno why you posted it here, I was under the impression it was fairly secret-ish).
But that's not relevant to anything we've been saying here.
Um...beg pardon?
How is it not relevant? It sounds to me like he just explained at least 3/4 of the reasons behind all the things people have been saying there was no reason for aside from spite.
Good flipping grief, Vellos, what more do you want?
LOL
Maybe Vellos is afraid that the reward that She asks for is the total destruction of the moot......?
Good thing Allison is bat!@#$ !@#$ing crazy, eh!
She gets any wish at all?
The bloodstars will get a schism.
Anyone else see the contradictions in that post?
Im talking about it openly now because when I told glaumring ooc on fhe forum he told asylon IC and now nobles are contacting me IG about it to allison. So everyone might as well know...
And now they are involved in major political wheeling and dealing with humans in order to get... a shield?
Why don't they just !@#$ing take it from you?
Mechanically, that's very difficult.
Not completely impossible, but there's no certain way to do so.
Still, it just strikes me odd that the Zuma, who invaded Terran on a whim because they were so offended that someone in the 'Moot could have written a letter that disrespected them, would upon discovering some human has their sacred item that they want so badly would not just say "WTF we're gonna ROFLSTOMP you."
So, catchign wind of someone calling the Zuma animals in a random letter is enough to evoke immediate daimon invasion, but possessing their sacred and much desired artifact is not?
Whateverrrrrrr...
Still, it just strikes me odd that the Zuma, who invaded Terran on a whim because they were so offended that someone in the 'Moot could have written a letter that disrespected them, would upon discovering some human has their sacred item that they want so badly would not just say "WTF we're gonna ROFLSTOMP you."
So, catchign wind of someone calling the Zuma animals in a random letter is enough to evoke immediate daimon invasion, but possessing their sacred and much desired artifact is not?
Whateverrrrrrr...
No. Our original declaration was that we would not invade unless we were invaded.
I'm not lying. I'm telling the truth.
I asked why Haktoo is defending Kabrinskia. The answer I got is that Haktoo is defending Kabrinskia. That's not an explanation.
Still, it just strikes me odd that the Zuma, who invaded Terran on a whim because they were so offended that someone in the 'Moot could have written a letter that disrespected them, would upon discovering some human has their sacred item that they want so badly would not just say "WTF we're gonna ROFLSTOMP you."
So, catchign wind of someone calling the Zuma animals in a random letter is enough to evoke immediate daimon invasion, but possessing their sacred and much desired artifact is not?
Whateverrrrrrr...
If you ask me, the Zuma GM is tired of our whining OOC, and he's just looking for any excuse to bash on us IC.
That is what the Zuma said.
But I doubt she will do that. She is crazy, but I hope not that crazy.
Still, it just strikes me odd that the Zuma, who invaded Terran on a whim because they were so offended that someone in the 'Moot could have written a letter that disrespected them, would upon discovering some human has their sacred item that they want so badly would not just say "WTF we're gonna ROFLSTOMP you."
So, catchign wind of someone calling the Zuma animals in a random letter is enough to evoke immediate daimon invasion, but possessing their sacred and much desired artifact is not?
Whateverrrrrrr...
Please remember when you give your facts that you are getting your information I assume from Allison so, as I have said to others, unless you heard it direct from the Zuma yourself, please try to make that clear in your postings, otherwise everyone just gets wound up about speculations.
Yeah I talked to my council and a few things here and there. Its not a big deal the news would come out soon anyways.