BattleMaster Community
BattleMaster => Locals => Dwilight => Topic started by: Solari on May 21, 2012, 01:27:32 AM
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Umbrella thread for all general Lurian chatter which has no other home, defined as being about one of the following realms: Luria Nova, Luria Vesperi, Pian en Luries, and Solaria.
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I will start: Solaria's geography is approaching maximum ridiculousness.
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As long as you don't hit Toupellon-Ludicrousness, you're fine.
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What does Luria think of the Zuma?
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What does Luria think of the Zuma?
Luria thinks of the Zuma?
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I will start: Solaria's geography is approaching maximum ridiculousness.
Seriously though, balance of power being upset right there. Incidentally the expansion has led to some very interesting conversations in LV :D
What does Luria think of the Zuma?
As far as Luria is concerned, the world begins and ends at our borders :P Which Solari is so gracefully expanding.
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The expansion is good in the short term for D'Hara--fewer monster incursions--but potentially very bad in the long run. Of course, the travel times to the Desert are extreme, and there's really no reason to take the region, or Sallowwild for that matter--badlands are worthless, other than as advanced-warning outposts for Sallowtown.
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Seriously though, balance of power being upset right there. Incidentally the expansion has led to some very interesting conversations in LV :D
Darn shame that all of the regions taken so far amount to like 300 more gold and 200 more food. This is a huge exercise in futility that my restless nobles prodded me into doing. :'(
Like egamma said, it keeps the borders clear at least.
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Or it just broadens it, giving you more work. Depends how you look at it :p
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Darn shame that all of the regions taken so far amount to like 300 more gold and 200 more food. This is a huge exercise in futility that my restless nobles prodded me into doing. :'(
Like egamma said, it keeps the borders clear at least.
It's hard to be king Arbiter, I guess. I mean, it's also a show of power for Solaria/Luria to take, what, three or four regions in a matter of days and move up northwards. I'm sure only good things will result from this ;D
The Vesperian plans have yet to be implemented, but have a certain craft and cunning to them, I think. And depend on some damnable chance and seizing of the moment.
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Darn shame that all of the regions taken so far amount to like 300 more gold and 200 more food. This is a huge exercise in futility that my restless nobles prodded me into doing. :'(
Like egamma said, it keeps the borders clear at least.
The interesting thing about the new system is that you can appoint one person as Duke over the entire area, have them collect 50% of the taxes from all the regions, and get a fairly decent income that way. No need to worry about food--there's not enough to both with, either positive or negative.
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The interesting thing about the new system is that you can appoint one person as Duke over the entire area, have them collect 50% of the taxes from all the regions, and get a fairly decent income that way. No need to worry about food--there's not enough to both with, either positive or negative.
Are you assuming that there are no appointments to the regions in the duchy? If so, does anyone have experience with the resulting penalties? Because we're going to be stretched thin.
Which reminds me... SOLARIA: NOW HIRING.
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Are you assuming that there are no appointments to the regions in the duchy? If so, does anyone have experience with the resulting penalties? Because we're going to be stretched thin.
Which reminds me... SOLARIA: NOW HIRING.
I think the only penalty is you collect 1/2 as much gold.
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Hmm... HH could be intrested for quick jump up on hierarchy :P
-Jaune
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How about that. Luria signing an alliance with the Grand Duchy of Fissoa. :o I never thought that was possible.
What are you up to? Haha
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Luria thinks of the Zuma?
Luria thinks?
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No, just cuts.
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Which reminds me... SOLARIA: NOW HIRING.
How broad are applications accepted?
Or are only non-scheming, non-assassinating, and non-traitorous allowed? (Hey, I do have the best cookies though)
In other news, Pian en Luries is officially the worst realm on Dwilight in terms of food consumption/production ratio.
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In other news, Pian en Luries is officially the worst realm on Dwilight in terms of food consumption/production ratio.
Well, does that come out as a surprise? It's a one-region-realm, which is naturally a city. It could only be worse if it was a larger city, like Giask or Darfix...
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Why would you keep them alive? Just annex the city.
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Why would you keep them alive? Just annex the city.
Because then they would not be the hub of the Empire. That's the whole idea behind keeping them not just alive, but giving them a prime role. It's the ceremonial and bureaucratic capital.
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It also makes them a constant living reminder of what happens if you screw with the rest of Luria.
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Someone point me to this juicy history.
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Because then they would not be the hub of the Empire. That's the whole idea behind keeping them not just alive, but giving them a prime role. It's the ceremonial and bureaucratic capital.
Well now that's a fascinating idea. Like the Senate faction in Rome: Total War.
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Because then they would not be the hub of the Empire. That's the whole idea behind keeping them not just alive, but giving them a prime role. It's the ceremonial and bureaucratic capital.
Which kind of makes me want to play in Luria, lol.
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Someone point me to this juicy history.
We desperately need a write-up of what transpired before and during the (latest) war and Lorgan should chime in with the Imperial blueprint, since it's mostly his good work.
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/me nominates Solari. :P
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We desperately need a write-up of what transpired before and during the (latest) war and Lorgan should chime in with the Imperial blueprint, since it's mostly his good work.
Seconded. Too many interesting happenings to go unwritten and unread.
Because then they would not be the hub of the Empire. That's the whole idea behind keeping them not just alive, but giving them a prime role. It's the ceremonial and bureaucratic capital.
And to have a group of neutral nobles to uphold and adjudicate the rules and transgressions of those rules of the Confederacy/Empire.
It also makes them a constant living reminder of what happens if you screw with the rest of Luria.
And yes also this.
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We desperately need a write-up of what transpired before and during the (latest) war and Lorgan should chime in with the Imperial blueprint, since it's mostly his good work.
He needs to do it somewhere people can applaud his work. Otherwise he'll get no motivation and even whipping doesn't work (verified).
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We desperately need a write-up of what transpired before and during the (latest) war and Lorgan should chime in with the Imperial blueprint, since it's mostly his good work.
Why thank you but I'd just say that it's a good compromise (yes once in a blue moon we Lurians are actually capable of that) between the representatives of LV (Madigan) Solaria (surprise: Solari) and LN (myself). This is how it works:
1. You have the Emperor. The Emperor is a ceremonial position that goes to the most physically strong Lurian, i.e. the one who defeats the old Emperor in a duel till surrender (this can escalate into a duel to the death in some cases). There are some requirements for being allowed to challenge the Emperor though, like support of a Lurian Ruler or Duke. In spite of his ceremonial position, the Emperor does hold one vote in the Lurian Council.
He may reside in the Imperial Palace reserved for him in Askileon.
2. The Imperial Chancellor. Where the Emperor is the summit of physical prowess the Chancellor is the peak for those who thrive on politics. He is the head of the Lurian Council and is elected by the Lurian Rulers. If they can't reach a compromise after a while, it goes to the Dukes and Lords of the Lurian realms. He has a vote in the Council that counts double in case of a tie.
3. The Lurian Council. Each Ruler of a Lurian realm has a seat in the Lurian Council, joined with one other dignitary from his realm. Aside from those there's the Chancellor and the Emperor as full members and then there's each government member from those realms who are spectators.
Most power of course resides with this Council so it is a pretty decentralized Empire or confederacy if you like but I doubt it'd survive a day if it was a centralized state. Though whoever knows how it will evolve... :)
It is built with the intent of stable cooperation but I can see some opportunities for armed conflict in it myself... which is how it should be.
It is currently being ratified and I sure hope that it'll be implemented soon. As far as I know it's a first in BM so it's pretty exciting to see how it'll turn out. :)
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Because then they would not be the hub of the Empire. That's the whole idea behind keeping them not just alive, but giving them a prime role. It's the ceremonial and bureaucratic capital.
But how much fun is it going to be for them playing in a realm of just three people?
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But how much fun is it going to be for them playing in a realm of just three people?
That depends - it could be lots of fun if they are on the Lurian Council and they enjoy politics. It's not like there's not a lot for three people to do to keep a whole realm running anyway, even if it just one region. Just making sure the city stays fed promises to be interesting.
I'd also consider founding pan-Lurian guilds and/or secret societies, and in general ensuring the centrality of the city to Luria as a whole. Hosting a lot of tourneys is one way to do that. Creating a tradition of hosting the other Lurian rulers in person for certain council functions is another. Could be a lot of fun for a few active players if you ask me.
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But how much fun is it going to be for them playing in a realm of just three people?
Looks like there's 7 of them.
They could also form that infiltrator realm that we keep talking about...
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Why thank you but I'd just say that it's a good compromise (yes once in a blue moon we Lurians are actually capable of that) between the representatives of LV (Madigan) Solaria (surprise: Solari) and LN (myself). This is how it works:
1. You have the Emperor. The Emperor is a ceremonial position that goes to the most physically strong Lurian, i.e. the one who defeats the old Emperor in a duel till surrender (this can escalate into a duel to the death in some cases). There are some requirements for being allowed to challenge the Emperor though, like support of a Lurian Ruler or Duke. In spite of his ceremonial position, the Emperor does hold one vote in the Lurian Council.
He may reside in the Imperial Palace reserved for him in Askileon.
2. The Imperial Chancellor. Where the Emperor is the summit of physical prowess the Chancellor is the peak for those who thrive on politics. He is the head of the Lurian Council and is elected by the Lurian Rulers. If they can't reach a compromise after a while, it goes to the Dukes and Lords of the Lurian realms. He has a vote in the Council that counts double in case of a tie.
3. The Lurian Council. Each Ruler of a Lurian realm has a seat in the Lurian Council, joined with one other dignitary from his realm. Aside from those there's the Chancellor and the Emperor as full members and then there's each government member from those realms who are spectators.
Most power of course resides with this Council so it is a pretty decentralized Empire or confederacy if you like but I doubt it'd survive a day if it was a centralized state. Though whoever knows how it will evolve... :)
It is built with the intent of stable cooperation but I can see some opportunities for armed conflict in it myself... which is how it should be.
It is currently being ratified and I sure hope that it'll be implemented soon. As far as I know it's a first in BM so it's pretty exciting to see how it'll turn out. :)
Applause and pats on the back all around. I, likewise, can't wait to see how things turn how - particularly because it brings LV into more Lurian politics and we could always use more excitement. But also because it opens up a whole new arena for the Lurian pastimes of backstabbing and scheming cooperation and altruism.
But how much fun is it going to be for them playing in a realm of just three people?
I guess that entirely depends on them. I know that Pian's King had some good ideas and I think that as their role as stewards of the Confederacy and laws becomes more developed and refined, so too will the style and pace of the realm. If - through negotiation - they get some land back, even better.
That depends - it could be lots of fun if they are on the Lurian Council and they enjoy politics. It's not like there's not a lot for three people to do to keep a whole realm running anyway, even if it just one region. Just making sure the city stays fed promises to be interesting.
I'd also consider founding pan-Lurian guilds and/or secret societies, and in general ensuring the centrality of the city to Luria as a whole. Hosting a lot of tourneys is one way to do that. Creating a tradition of hosting the other Lurian rulers in person for certain council functions is another. Could be a lot of fun for a few active players if you ask me.
This. The Council's guild has already been founded in Askileon and a meeting was called for all representatives to meet at the city-state for the first meeting/elections. That should go a long way towards cementing the city as the 'Lurian Capitol'.
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Looks like there's 7 of them.
They could also form that infiltrator realm that we keep talking about...
You're counting adventurers? Why?
Pan-Lurian guilds would be a necessity. They won't have anyone to talk to otherwise.
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I kind of expect them to found an Imperial Army that could function as elite strike force as well as morale booster in any war we might be ambition. After all, when you're knight of a one region-realm, there are no monsters to fight so might as well spend your time training your unit and preparing for war. Especially as there is absolutely no reason why the lord shouldn't run the maximum tax rate in a realm that small.
Gold for everyone!
Honestly, I'm general in LN but I'm half-tempted to give that up to join PeL and become a King's Guard-esque Imperial Guard or something. It sounds like lots of fun in my opinion and would fit my character very well as I normally try to keep him away from politics. This time I just couldn't pass on an opportunity to co-design this. :)
And yeah, guilds have been founded, the oldest one still needs to be redesigned though. We'll get to that once the whole thing is actually established. :)
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I kind of expect them to found an Imperial Army that could function as elite strike force as well as morale booster in any war we might be ambition. After all, when you're knight of a one region-realm, there are no monsters to fight so might as well spend your time training your unit and preparing for war. Especially as there is absolutely no reason why the lord shouldn't run the maximum tax rate in a realm that small.
Gold for everyone!
Honestly, I'm general in LN but I'm half-tempted to give that up to join PeL and become a King's Guard-esque Imperial Guard or something. It sounds like lots of fun in my opinion and would fit my character very well as I normally try to keep him away from politics. This time I just couldn't pass on an opportunity to co-design this. :)
And yeah, guilds have been founded, the oldest one still needs to be redesigned though. We'll get to that once the whole thing is actually established. :)
Better work on getting some totally bad@$$ recruitment centers then.
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Better work on getting some totally bad@$$ recruitment centers then.
Pretty sure they've already got pretty good centers. It's the only city in Luria that hasn't gone rogue since it's first conquest after all. (Unless I'm mistaken? At least it's the city that has been part of a realm for the longest amount of time in Luria.)
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We desperately need a write-up of what transpired before and during the (latest) war and Lorgan should chime in with the Imperial blueprint, since it's mostly his good work.
Well I can definitely contribute some to the "before" category and during of course as well. I have to think about how much IC information I'll want to include though. Granted, I highly doubt revealing some IC secrets of Brom will really change anyone in Luria's opinion of him anyway at this point.
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I kind of expect them to found an Imperial Army that could function as elite strike force as well as morale booster in any war we might be ambition. After all, when you're knight of a one region-realm, there are no monsters to fight so might as well spend your time training your unit and preparing for war. Especially as there is absolutely no reason why the lord shouldn't run the maximum tax rate in a realm that small.
Gold for everyone!
Honestly, I'm general in LN but I'm half-tempted to give that up to join PeL and become a King's Guard-esque Imperial Guard or something. It sounds like lots of fun in my opinion and would fit my character very well as I normally try to keep him away from politics. This time I just couldn't pass on an opportunity to co-design this. :)
And yeah, guilds have been founded, the oldest one still needs to be redesigned though. We'll get to that once the whole thing is actually established. :)
I hear you on the PeL sounding fun front. I'm equally tempted to leave Judge/Ambassador/Lordship/future titles in LV just because of the huge potential for fun RP and character interactions that could come from serving in the seat of the Lurian Empire. I hope that some of that interaction will still come from being on the Council - or the Curia Regis as PeL styled it.
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Pan-Lurian guilds would be a necessity. They won't have anyone to talk to otherwise.
There are already 3: Halls of Luria (for everyone), Curia Regis (for the clique) and the Imperial War College (for those who like to parade in armors). ;D
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There are already 2: Halls of Luria (for everyone), and the Imperial War College (for Generals and marshals and sponsors).
There I fixed it for you. ;D
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Well this sounds pretty cool. Once I retire Eoghan or he gets killed in battle, my next character may just show up in Luria. :)
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Why thank you but I'd just say that it's a good compromise (yes once in a blue moon we Lurians are actually capable of that) between the representatives of LV (Madigan) Solaria (surprise: Solari) and LN (myself). This is how it works:
1. You have the Emperor. The Emperor is a ceremonial position that goes to the most physically strong Lurian, i.e. the one who defeats the old Emperor in a duel till surrender (this can escalate into a duel to the death in some cases). There are some requirements for being allowed to challenge the Emperor though, like support of a Lurian Ruler or Duke. In spite of his ceremonial position, the Emperor does hold one vote in the Lurian Council.
He may reside in the Imperial Palace reserved for him in Askileon.
2. The Imperial Chancellor. Where the Emperor is the summit of physical prowess the Chancellor is the peak for those who thrive on politics. He is the head of the Lurian Council and is elected by the Lurian Rulers. If they can't reach a compromise after a while, it goes to the Dukes and Lords of the Lurian realms. He has a vote in the Council that counts double in case of a tie.
3. The Lurian Council. Each Ruler of a Lurian realm has a seat in the Lurian Council, joined with one other dignitary from his realm. Aside from those there's the Chancellor and the Emperor as full members and then there's each government member from those realms who are spectators.
Most power of course resides with this Council so it is a pretty decentralized Empire or confederacy if you like but I doubt it'd survive a day if it was a centralized state. Though whoever knows how it will evolve... :)
It is built with the intent of stable cooperation but I can see some opportunities for armed conflict in it myself... which is how it should be.
It is currently being ratified and I sure hope that it'll be implemented soon. As far as I know it's a first in BM so it's pretty exciting to see how it'll turn out. :)
Honestly, the structure of the confederacy doesn't sound that different from the structure of the Véinsørmoot. Minus the whole dueling to surrender thing.
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The dueling part is what makes it cool. 8)
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You're counting adventurers? Why?
Just went off realm-wide character list, oops.
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The dueling part is what makes it cool. 8)
Yeah, nothing says 'strong empire' like having your Emperor's only qualificacation be 'he's a good swordfighter'. ::) Empire... ha! They wish!
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Yeah, nothing says 'strong empire' like having your Emperor's only qualificacation be 'he's a good swordfighter'. ::) Empire... ha! They wish!
Up to you to change it. ;)
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The dueling part is what makes it cool. 8)
Bah, we chose out Mootgram by staring contests with the Zuma. Whoever can stare at Haktoo longest without blinking gets elected Mootgram.
So far, only Hireshmont has even bothered to try, though. Or so the rumors go. :P
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Honestly, the structure of the confederacy doesn't sound that different from the structure of the Véinsørmoot. Minus the whole dueling to surrender thing.
Except, as the 'moot was explained to me, each realm is not necessarily compelled to answer the call to attack or defend. We are. Nice deterrent, that. 8)
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Except, as the 'moot was explained to me, each realm is not necessarily compelled to answer the call to attack or defend. We are. Nice deterrent, that. 8)
Nobody asked D'Hara to join in. Sometimes, one's better off having their friends wait on the side, rather than playing all of their cards right away.
After all, had we joined in, then we couldn't act as a deterrent to others by threatening to join in! Allows for us to better prepare ourselves to get involved, too, instead of scrambling in and making fools of ourselves.
Fighting's bad for business, though, we'd rather everyone just give each other nice big hugs.
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Except, as the 'moot was explained to me, each realm is not necessarily compelled to answer the call to attack or defend. We are. Nice deterrent, that. 8)
Why not read it?
All signing realms have an obligation, insofar as it is possible, to provide military aid for the defense of other signing realms, if they should come under threat by man, beast, or abomination. In particular, the cities of Paisly, Chesney, and Rettleville are regarded as joint security responsibilities of the signing realms, given their nearness to threats from man, beast, and abomination, and their nearness to one another.
iv. While it is impracticable to offer a perfect definition of "possible" in iii), it shall be noted that, if a realm has mobile forces available in excess of what is necessary to provide surveillance of its borders and repel impending threats from man, beast, or abomination, and it fails to deploy those forces, it should give an account of its failure through official diplomatic channels and the Véinsørmoot.
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Why not read it?
While Kabrinskia provoked it, Terran declared it. The fighting has also thus far been pretty much in Kabrinskia. It'd be a stretch to call it defense. There's also the fact that the prescribed forewarning was not given, as far as I know.
As it is, I do not feel as the Treaty binds D'Hara to interfere. Obviously, so does the rest of the 'moot, else we'd have been asked to fight.
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The dueling part is what makes it cool. 8)
Time to send a SA champion to Pel and claim Luria for the stars 8)
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Why not read it?
One of your elders has a very different interpretation of the agreement, then. I'm just working off of what Malus knows. Or they're lying again.
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One of your elders has a very different interpretation of the agreement, then. I'm just working off of what Malus knows. Or they're lying again.
I'm not saying that D'Hara is required to attack Kabrinskia. Sending an army for a 'joint training maneuvers' in Terran regions is not out of the question.
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Time to send a SA champion to Pel and claim Luria for the stars 8)
Except that the Emperor has almost no power :p
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One of your elders has a very different interpretation of the agreement, then. I'm just working off of what Malus knows. Or they're lying again.
The 'moot will do what the 'moot will do. Though I consider that the strict letter of the law favors us, I've always felt that everyone was willing to bend the rules if necessary, should it be in everyone's interests.
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Except, as the 'moot was explained to me, each realm is not necessarily compelled to answer the call to attack or defend. We are. Nice deterrent, that. 8)
In the present circumstance, military aid is not required: because Terran is not strictly engaged in mere defense, and because D'Hara can provide reasons for not sending aid (and has done so convincingly, to Terran's satisfaction).
However, generally, yes, Moot members are completely bound to defend each other from foreign aggression.
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Time to send a SA champion to Pel and claim Luria for the stars 8)
You already own the Northern half of Luria. If you walk any further south, you'll get burned 8).
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Except that the Emperor has almost no power :p
What is the point of being Emperor of Luria without the power to command the armies of Luria?
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What is the point of being Emperor of Luria without the power to command the armies of Luria?
They do, nominally, but we have an Imperial War College for that. I am sure that, over time, these roles will morph as the circumstances demand. Nobody is especially eager to create an autocratic emperor/empress right out of the gate, though. ;)
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I'm not saying that D'Hara is required to attack Kabrinskia. Sending an army for a 'joint training maneuvers' in Terran regions is not out of the question.
Understood. But that is the obligation of Lurian realms. It's a mutual guarantee of offensive and defensive assistance. The offensive element would come by way of a vote among the realms (in that nobody is declaring war unilaterally and counting on the rest to join in after the fact), but the defensive aid is automatic.
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Understood. But that is the obligation of Lurian realms. It's a mutual guarantee of offensive and defensive assistance. The offensive element would come by way of a vote among the realms (in that nobody is declaring war unilaterally and counting on the rest to join in after the fact), but the defensive aid is automatic.
Yea, well, D'Hara wasn't consulted for declaring war against Kabrinskia (well, actually it was, but it opposed it). No votes were held over the subject either.
I don't really see a difference. After all, any sane federation would be bound by the same kinds of restrictions with the obligation of support without allowing any single party to unilaterally bind all others.
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They do, nominally, but we have an Imperial War College for that. I am sure that, over time, these roles will morph as the circumstances demand. Nobody is especially eager to create an autocratic emperor/empress right out of the gate, though. ;)
Let us name him, Luaesar. He shall hold all power temporarily until we sort out the powers of the Emperor.
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I wonder how long I can keep my character "empire free" while still fulfilling his roles to Solaria... Should be fun. :)
*walks off to kick back in Balance's Retreat*
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What do you mean by "empire free"?
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What do you mean by "empire free"?
Woelfy is convinced he can completely extricate Sevastian from Federated politics as the Preda (general) and Duke. Silly man.
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Woelfy is convinced he can completely extricate Sevastian from Federated politics as the Preda (general) and Duke. Silly man.
Hah. You guys should have voted him as Solaria's Representative. :D Hilarity.
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Hah. You guys should have voted him as Solaria's Representative. :D Hilarity.
There were worse choices... ;)
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I swear, I'm gonna find a way. You'll see. The political side is of no interest to me. You silly Southerners deal with your squabbling, and I'll maintain the peace up north.
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I swear, I'm gonna find a way. You'll see. The political side is of no interest to me. You silly Southerners deal with your squabbling, and I'll maintain the peace up north.
Peacekeeper aye? Booooring!
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Someone has to keep these monsters and undead down. We found out Kamron couldn't do it, so I guess it falls to Sevastian. ;)
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Kamron eats undead for breakfast!
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Hahahahaha, since when? You silly Novans couldn't even find any to play with.
Hard to eat what you can't catch old chum.
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Maybe it was Fissoans... who can really tell?
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Peacekeeper aye? Booooring!
That all depends on how you keep the peace.
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@Lorgan: yeah, they do look similar. I imagine the taste wouldn't be too different either.
@indirik: precisely. So far Sevastian is a lot like Woelfen, only way more militant. :D
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This is a general recruiting notice. We were going to do a big post with snippets about all the Lurian realms, but that's taking too long and I need nobles yesterday.
Solaria is hiring. Are you bored? Are you not bored? Do you like to stab things? How about repair things? I don't care, because we need all types. Do you want a lordship? Because we've got them. This is what happens when you give in to player demands for expansion before you're ready.
So, there it is. Join Solaria and (almost certainly) get a lordship. Or command position. Or duchy. Whatever.
XD
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Solaria roxxors.
Advertising just for Solaria, aye? *feels the next civil war brewing*
And you know that when it starts, you want to be part of Luria Nova.
;)
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Advertising just for Solaria, aye? *feels the next civil war brewing*
And you know that when it starts, you want to be part of Luria Nova.
;)
Let me know when you have one less noble (possibly more) than you have regions and we can revisit protocols. :P
But yes, all the Lurian realms are fine realms. Mine just happens to need nobles more than yours. ;D
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If LN had some more nobles Solari then you wouldnt have to worry about recruiting nobles to fill yours ;)
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Let me know when you have one less noble (possibly more) than you have regions and we can revisit protocols. :P
But yes, all the Lurian realms are fine realms. Mine just happens to need nobles more than yours. ;D
Pretty sure my Lurian realm needs the most nobles. (PeL)
It also needs me, but that's another topic.
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3 nobles in just Askileon... they must all be crazy-rich. :)
Perfect would be to have like 8 nobles in there. That's a respectable army already.
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"The banners are called, the soldiers are mustering, soon Giask will know civil war again."
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Rebellion's not civil war. Rebellions are for amateurs!
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"The banners are called, the soldiers are mustering, soon Giask will know civil war again."
For reals? !@#$ yes.
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Sounds good :)
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Rebellion's not civil war. Rebellions are for amateurs!
Ya rebellions aren't any fun. Civil war is definitely where its at.
Especially because you can get in trouble with rebellions. At least with Civil war, the strongest wins. (Or whoever steals the most money from the other and disbands the best militia)
P.S. The attack of Giask was NOT a *surprise* attack. We knew it would happen, just couldnt' do anything about it.
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If you knew it was coming, you wouldn't have sat in Orz for half a week without seeing the Pianese army massing in Santoo ;)
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If you knew it was coming, you wouldn't have sat in Orz for half a week without seeing the Pianese army massing in Santoo ;)
We knew it was coming but we could either sit in Orz and for sure hold off one side of an invasion or sit in our city and let one invasion for sure kill us.
It was a gamble, but we were frankly too outmatched financially and recruitment center wise to win that war. The 50% theft of our gold, although it was mitigated through some plans of mine hurt too much.
Trust me, we knew about it, we talked about it in our military council. You don't have to believe me, but it was not a surprise attack. It was a smart amphibious assault, I'll give you that, but it was not a surprise to the leaders at least. Especially because we had spies that told us about it within your army and government.
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Pfft... a few hundred more men on the wall and the battle would have been a lot different. And you were taunting us just a few days earlier that we'd never even be able to break Outer Giask, let alone Giask. Face it, PeL came out of left field and sucker punched you in the back of the head. Only 3 people knew of the attack plan until the day it was launched, none of them were south of the river ;)
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There's a big difference between knowing that you've got enemies who are plotting against you, and knowing specifically that they are planning to do this at that time.
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There's a big difference between knowing that you've got enemies who are plotting against you, and knowing specifically that they are planning to do this at that time.
We knew that you were planning to attack the city. We did not explicitly know the attack date but we knew it was most likely soon, and that the attack was coming from Askileon.
We had a spy in your realm council, so yes that helps.
As far as the gloating, that wasn't me. I was smart enough to broker the semblance of a deal and get out of there.
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Ah seems tybalt was protested out of office
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Ah seems tybalt was protested out of office
Welcome to Luria. This is how we say hello to all our rulers!
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It seems that Fulco is not trying to defend his honour. Tybalt has challenged him publicly to a duel to the death. Called him a coward and a Craven. Yet he refuses to accept it. Ah if only people would actually defend their honour these days :P
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Heh. This whole episode has certainly been interesting. :)
But now Kamron is challenging Tybalt! ;)
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It seems that Fulco is not trying to defend his honour. Tybalt has challenged him publicly to a duel to the death. Called him a coward and a Craven. Yet he refuses to accept it. Ah if only people would actually defend their honour these days :P
A desperate man, his back to the wall, without any support, why would a challenge from such person be answered?
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It's almost worth pausing my other character, just to create one named Romeo, and challenging Tybalt to a duel.
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Ah seems tybalt was protested out of office
Just wondering, what was the reason for it?
Did people finally realize he was a lying and terrible ruler, or did Fulco just get more power hungry again?
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A desperate man, his back to the wall, without any support, why would a challenge from such person be answered?
Because Fulco has committed treason against the crown, and the only way Tybalt can defend himself is by challenging the leader of it. Normally, it is outright war, so that the King can have a chance of saving himself. The way Fulco did it was cowardly as Tybalt could not even fight back (as would normally be the case in a rebellion). So he challenged him to a duel to the death (plus Fulco and Tybalt have never been BFF have they?)
Now Fulco is refusing to accept the challenge, Tyabalt can now call him craven and will do so until Fulco steps up to the plate and fights.
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Did people finally realize he was a lying and terrible ruler
Pretty much that.
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Did people finally realize he was a lying and terrible ruler, or did Fulco just get more power hungry again?
Fulcos power hungry again. Tybalt wouldn't dance to Fulco's tune, he never has done and they have always been a loggerheads. Fulco ahs always complain about something or other. Now he has just managed to get everyone to back him up.
Oh and the fact that Tybalts candidate for a Judge was not eligable, was the final straw for Fulco. My bad really...should have checked before hand :P
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Quote from: Dante Silverfire on Today at 11:24:08 PM
Did people finally realize he was a lying and terrible ruler
Pretty much that.
When did he ever lie?
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Did you really not notice that Fulco was far from the only one protesting you?
It's not like Alanna is some kind of lackey of Fulco's. Yeah, maybe some of the people who protested did so because Fulco asked them to, but I very much doubt he could have swung enough to get you out of office all by himself.
If you think that this is purely Tybalt vs Fulco, you're deluding yourself.
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When did he ever lie?
Is this serious? He lied SO much during the entire decline of PeL fiasco. He lied to his realm, he lied to other realms and rulers.
That's just the only case I know of.
Did you really not notice that Fulco was far from the only one protesting you?
It's not like Alanna is some kind of lackey of Fulco's. Yeah, maybe some of the people who protested did so because Fulco asked them to, but I very much doubt he could have swung enough to get you out of office all by himself.
If you think that this is purely Tybalt vs Fulco, you're deluding yourself.
And of course Alanna has some influence on it. Has to work back into power eventually.
Fulco took the smart method of protesting him out of office. Its guaranteed to work with enough support, and less risk. Shoot, protesting is half of the reason that Alanna won the civil war a while back.
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Can't help it when Fulco is the only one bothering enough to speak up and if he was power hungry he would have had the crown by now including being duke of giask.
Anyway, this is likely turning into an OOC repeat of what's said IC, so it might be best if I refrain from further comments on this issue.
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It's almost worth pausing my other character, just to create one named Romeo, and challenging Tybalt to a duel.
lolz, nice one.
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Congratulations to Levon Arrakis, new King of Luria Nova.
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Did you really not notice that Fulco was far from the only one protesting you?
It's not like Alanna is some kind of lackey of Fulco's. Yeah, maybe some of the people who protested did so because Fulco asked them to, but I very much doubt he could have swung enough to get you out of office all by himself.
Indeed I did, but look at the numbers who protested. They were very few, they just protested often.
If you think that this is purely Tybalt vs Fulco, you're deluding yourself.
Well as Fulco was the main instigator of the who thing, and the fact that you didn't even give Tybalt a chance to fight back (who can fight back against a protest? Any supporters on my side could do nada). The duel is the only way to fight back. Which Fulco is refusing as he only does things in a cowardly way, where there is no chance of loosing. There has been a lot of bad blood between Tybalt and Fulco, this is the catalyst in their relationship. It was Fulco that announced to the realm to start protesting to get Tybalt out fo office, and was his main adversary the entire time he was in power.
You may wish to be included in all this but Tybalt doesnt care about the others. He is hell bent on revenge and will focus all his efforts at discrediting Fulco as much as he can.
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Is this serious? He lied SO much during the entire decline of PeL fiasco. He lied to his realm, he lied to other realms and rulers.
That's just the only case I know of.
Really? What was the lie to the other rulers? He didnt say...Its all right Koli, I like you and are not going to attack you.....*backs turned* wham!"
There was justifications for the war, as has been said many numerous times before hand, and I shall not repeat now.
Fulco took the smart method of protesting him out of office. Its guaranteed to work with enough support, and less risk. Shoot, protesting is half of the reason that Alanna won the civil war a while back.
Indeed, but not a very honourable one. The one being protested cannot even fight back. For example. Realm A has 50 nobles. 15 of them protest, the Ruler is thrown out. 35 do not (supporters of the ruler) They can do nothing to help the ruler. Where as in a proper battle then support is required. This way only a small groups of nobles need to be willing to protest. Not the whole realm. And there is nothing the victims (ruler/supporters) can do about it. Plus you look at it in a SMA, where in the history of a monarchy did you ever see a King get protested out of office, with out an armed conflict of some sort? I cant think of one. especially in the time frame that we are playing in.
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Indeed, but not a very honourable one. The one being protested cannot even fight back. For example. Realm A has 50 nobles. 15 of them protest, the Ruler is thrown out. 35 do not (supporters of the ruler) They can do nothing to help the ruler. Where as in a proper battle then support is required. This way only a small groups of nobles need to be willing to protest. Not the whole realm. And there is nothing the victims (ruler/supporters) can do about it. Plus you look at it in a SMA, where in the history of a monarchy did you ever see a King get protested out of office, with out an armed conflict of some sort? I cant think of one. especially in the time frame that we are playing in.
In the last two days, 8 nobles protested only once, one (thus a total of 9 different nobles out of 21) protested twice.
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The Lurians turn on each other again. Tell me something new.
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Indeed, but not a very honourable one. The one being protested cannot even fight back. For example. Realm A has 50 nobles. 15 of them protest, the Ruler is thrown out. 35 do not (supporters of the ruler) They can do nothing to help the ruler. Where as in a proper battle then support is required. This way only a small groups of nobles need to be willing to protest. Not the whole realm. And there is nothing the victims (ruler/supporters) can do about it. Plus you look at it in a SMA, where in the history of a monarchy did you ever see a King get protested out of office, with out an armed conflict of some sort? I cant think of one. especially in the time frame that we are playing in.
They can fight back. If you get protested out but have a majority supporters, then those 35 nobles can vote back in the King they want. As that didn't happen, Tybalt obviously didn't have majority support.
If you control the Judge, then ban everyone who protests you. It could easily be considered a form of rebellion anyway, so take actions against it.
If you control the Banker, have him take gold from the people protesting to punish them.
If your the King, which you are, then make a new Duke in place of Fulco and ask the lords to reassign to the new Duke. Or make new duchies out of every one of his vassals and then ask the loyal ones to reassign to the Duke the King chooses.
If you control the General, then have him disband all militia in your city and regions, and ask another Lurian realm to invade to defend your thrown from the usurpers.
You have many options, some more drastic than others. Certainly fighting is more what people consider, but there are always options to fight back. (Unless you truly have no supporters in the realm, or are heavily outnumbered already) Then you'd lose anyway.
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If you control the Banker, have him take gold from the people protesting to punish them.
This... is not possible?
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This... is not possible?
Is the steal from regions broken or not working?
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If your the King, which you are, then make a new Duke in place of Fulco and ask the lords to reassign to the new Duke. Or make new duchies out of every one of his vassals and then ask the loyal ones to reassign to the Duke the King chooses.
That was the first thing Tybalt tried when he became king, needless to say he failed pretty hard at it :P
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Is the steal from regions broken or not working?
It works, however I assume that Vellos took your words to literally, i.e. that the banker would indeed steal from the nobles in stead of the tax offices of their regions.
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It works, however I assume that Vellos took your words to literally, i.e. that the banker would indeed steal from the nobles in stead of the tax offices of their regions.
Okay, makes sense. Yes, while the banker used to be able to do that one, I was just referring to the steal from regions, as it applied to the city of Giask, and any other lord supporters.
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Okay, makes sense. Yes, while the banker used to be able to do that one, I was just referring to the steal from regions, as it applied to the city of Giask, and any other lord supporters.
But it'd be hard to steal a truly significant sum, wouldn't it?
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But it'd be hard to steal a truly significant sum, wouldn't it?
Yes. However, Giask makes a lot of gold. If you're fighting an internal rebellion (of any sort) you want the gold advantage. I was just suggesting steps that a King who truly had support and was only being fought by a minority could take.
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Time it right and you'll get 25% of the region's income. Not insignificant.
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It seems that Fulco is not trying to defend his honour. Tybalt has challenged him publicly to a duel to the death. Called him a coward and a Craven. Yet he refuses to accept it. Ah if only people would actually defend their honour these days :P
Tybalt was constantly insulted during the invasion of Pian but I didn't see him demanding satisfaction. Seriously, what a double standard.
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The Lurians turn on each other again. Tell me something new.
Technically, these are Novans turning on Novans. Really, Lurians have nothing to fear from each other until they aspire to—or God help them become—ruler. These things happen when you have a very densely-packed subcontinent that sat alone in isolation for years.
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Technically, these are Novans turning on Novans. Really, Lurians have nothing to fear from each other until they aspire to—or God help them become—ruler. These things happen when you have a very densely-packed subcontinent that sat alone in isolation for years.
Lurian ruler is probably the worst position you can be in. Where you want to be is Duke. That's the sweet spot.
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Lurian ruler is probably the worst position you can be in. Where you want to be is Duke. That's the sweet spot.
Nope, you could be a banker. That's worse.
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Nope, you could be a banker. That's worse.
Cmon...that was my job... :(
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Cmon...that was my job... :(
And you went to the exact opposite side of the continent to escape it!
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And you went to the exact opposite side of the continent to escape it!
He's still alive... for now. King Koli and Queen Katerina both died (Well Koli is in a coma but its the figurative equivalent) Amaury is also dead. Alanna was deported once already and what she did to Shenron was much worse.
Rulers have terrible fates. But I feel as though being a Silverfire, or aspiring to be one in Luria, could be worse :P.
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Amaury is also dead.
Or so they keep saying >_>
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He's still alive... for now. King Koli and Queen Katerina both died (Well Koli is in a coma but its the figurative equivalent) Amaury is also dead. Alanna was deported once already and what she did to Shenron was much worse.
Rulers have terrible fates. But I feel as though being a Silverfire, or aspiring to be one in Luria, could be worse :P.
The best part for me about playing a Silverfire in Luria was that my character got away with the craziest ---- and never got in trouble for it. Brom was the root cause behind nearly every rebellion,civil war, and assassination attempt that occurred and hardly got any punishment or lost position for it. He was even able to manage a return to Luria and was almost instantly placed back into a realm council position.
Regardless of the turnout at the end of Brom's adventures in Luria, it was by far the most fun I've had on a single character. I've had some very fun moments on my Atamara char but Brom was my favorite for his duration in Luria.
Best part is, he still has supporters in Luria, although they make up maybe 5% of the population while those who hate him make up about 80% or more. Too bad, that probably means it will be near impossible for Brom to return again safely.
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Depends on how bored we are... If we have nothing else to do, why not bring Brom back for another game of "GET THE SILVERFIRE!!!" :P
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I would join Solaria, but I am not a fan of months of travelling.
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Tybalt was constantly insulted during the invasion of Pian but I didn't see him demanding satisfaction. Seriously, what a double standard.
There is a slight difference here. You never called Tybalt a coward directly, and any insults/satisfaction was dealt with on the Battlefield. Jeffery tried to insult Tybalt, but he lost his region to Luria Nova. No need for any duels as it could all be dealt with on the battlefield.
If Fulco had launched an armed rebellion instead of a protest campaign, then there would be no need to duel, as any supporters of Tybalt could have joined in and any supporters of Fulco could have joined in. In the protest, only Fulco's supporters could help him out. Any of Tybalts supporters could just sit and watch the protest without being able to do anything.
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Any of Tybalts supporters could just sit and watch the protest without being able to do anything.
This is just plainly untrue. They could have elected you back into office, for god's sake. Or they could have rebelled. Or they could have protested out the new King.
Seriously, keep the propaganda IC
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This is just plainly untrue. They could have elected you back into office, for god's sake. Or they could have rebelled. Or they could have protested out the new King.
Seriously, keep the propaganda IC
The point is which I agree with is if there are protests there should be a way to counter it before he gets removed from office. Yes they could do that but they should be able to do a similar option like praise or support or something that they say why the kings choice was good to counter protesting.
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The point is which I agree with is if there are protests there should be a way to counter it before he gets removed from office. Yes they could do that but they should be able to do a similar option like praise or support or something that they say why the kings choice was good to counter protesting.
I don't agree with this, as it complicates things needlessly and the current system has quite a lot of balance. If we make too many changes to the current system it then gets needlessly complicated.
If you have enough nobles to protest someone out of office and win the coming re-election then you deserve to. Especially if the other side doesn't respond by using its own powers to fight back.
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I don't agree with this, as it complicates things needlessly and the current system has quite a lot of balance. If we make too many changes to the current system it then gets needlessly complicated.
If you have enough nobles to protest someone out of office and win the coming re-election then you deserve to. Especially if the other side doesn't respond by using its own powers to fight back.
The issue being in general if the office is an appointed position then it is still possible but a lot harder if the apointer is not on your side which may or may not be right, (I am tired so can't properly decide since I am too tired to try basically).
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What Tybalt supporters?
You mean that green knight you tried to appoint as judge and that old grumpy tarajist? The amount of effort I had to do to kick you out was even less then to kick out amaury, which says a lot about tybalt...
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I would join Solaria, but I am not a fan of months of travelling.
I went from Eidulb to Giask in a week or so...
The amount of effort I had to do to kick you out was even less then to kick out amaury, which says a lot about tybalt...
And Amaury already was a 'hate him or love him' type ;)
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The point is which I agree with is if there are protests there should be a way to counter it before he gets removed from office.
No, let's not. Do you know how difficult it is to protest someone out of office? Very. The only time I've ever personally see it done was when a clan was doing the protesting.
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I would join Solaria, but I am not a fan of months of travelling.
It's not nearly as bad as people think. Our main duchy is easy travelling, and the new duchy is going to be brought under total control quickly. You should definitely come join the fun Foundation. :D
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No, let's not. Do you know how difficult it is to protest someone out of office? Very. The only time I've ever personally see it done was when a clan was doing the protesting.
Luria must be very good at organizing it then, or at least Alanna. I was protested out of office in a time frame of about 16 real life hours, which for me translated to about 15 minutes where I was able to get online in the last 4-6 hours of it.
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Luria must be very good at organizing it then, or at least Alanna.
Either that, or they just really didn't like you.
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Either that, or they just really didn't like you.
Fine. Maybe a bit of both.
Although to be fair, they had to be timely about it. Otherwise, Brom would have stolen half the gold of the realm 1 turn later.
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And so it begins ;D
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Keeping the traditional values, huh?
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For the spectators: rebellion in Luria Vesperi. Almost certainly going to succeed.
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For the spectators: rebellion in Luria Vesperi. Almost certainly going to succeed.
Dunno, from the latest developments it is not so certain anymore.
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More drama! More excitement!
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Keeping the traditional values, huh?
I find comfort in this. Much comfort.
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More drama! More excitement!
You think? It becomes predictable after a while :P
"Hey, we haven't had a rebellion in two weeks! We should really do something about that... (goes off to corner to whisper with some others).
::)
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Dunno, from the latest developments it is not so certain anymore.
Well, we did win the first battle and just now win the second. I have high hopes ;D
Then again, I have to have high hopes, I'm the one leading it.
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What Tybalt supporters?
You mean that green knight you tried to appoint as judge and that old grumpy tarajist? The amount of effort I had to do to kick you out was even less then to kick out amaury, which says a lot about tybalt...
Well considering you only had 8 out of 21 nobles protesting, that means there was at least 13 that wasn't.
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Well considering you only had 8 out of 21 nobles protesting, that means there was at least 13 that wasn't.
Well, there was you and your little friend Commius, and probably Tarajist, who were obviously on your side.
Of the other 18, I dare say a good percentage either didn't have chance to protest before you were protested out, were on the fence as to whether you should go or not, or just didn't care one way or the other.
It's not like lots of people were speaking up to support you.
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You think? It becomes predictable after a while :P
"Hey, we haven't had a rebellion in two weeks! We should really do something about that... (goes off to corner to whisper with some others).
::)
What makes it more fun and more dramatic is this "We should really do something about that" is fundamentally wrong. Every reason for civil war and rebellion so far has been pretty unique and quite gripping. The latest one in LV was split between OOC/IC reasons, since it was a barren wasteland. Nothing but orders were sent - seriously - and nothing happened save for Hendrick beating his wife in private. So evidently, something needed to be changed. From an IC standpoint, Bipel was hoarding over 1000 gold pieces a week without spending it on anything. It should be noted LV has crap recovering regions, which requires.... money. Militias aren't bought by the King so our army needs to mop up every turn. Our army, on that note, is the weakest by far on this entire continent, save for maybe PeL's, where "crap RC's" gains a whole new meaning. Again, this was not improved. And yet with all this, production stagnates like crazy due to absent lords. THEN RELIGION - which needs more power in the first place - is also a key concept, since Aetheris Pyrism deserves a theocracy in its name to fight off SA somewhat. That and it'll improve gameplay and opportunities.
The struggle between success and failure for such an ambition is what makes every Lurian civil war simply awesome. The last one was for the formation of a new realm, with new concepts and leaders, while the entire destruction - or almost - of Pian en Luries was witnessed. "The created shall destroy the creators", a wise holographic child made of pixels on my television screen once told my protagonist - also made of pixels.
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That sounds like the struggle between failure and absymal failure. :-/
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That sounds like the struggle between failure and absymal failure. :-/
I think its more the struggle between fun and more fun.
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I think its more the struggle between fun and more fun.
In the dwarf fortress sense of FUN
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!!FUN!!
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(http://i.xstend.com/618c1207.jpg)
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Nothing but orders were sent - seriously - and nothing happened save for Hendrick beating his wife in private.
This made me lol ;D
Let's see the epilogue of this story. I hear there will be changes in the realm.
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The upshot of this for the Federation itself is how quickly the issue became a Vesperi one alone. Nobody decided to use LV as a battlefield for a proxy war, and everybody seems content to let whoever emerges victorious from this rebellion pick up where the rest of LV left off. After all, federations are between realms, not people. It's been a good first test.
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Since this is a Lurian thread, I wanted to touch on the main attribute the entire region has: culture. Now, we've evidently gone over the "civil war/backstabby/war mongering" aspect, but what of Luria's INTELLECTUAL side. You read that right! Welcome to OxfordMaster, where 20 or so nobles participate in a fiery debate over a word of choice. Our last debate was on the word "respect," and where respect is derived from and applied in real life medieval situations. If you like reading the dictionary, or creating a sludge mixture made of bone and flesh from continuous impacts your forehead makes with the table, then please consider joining us in Luria!
Sponsored by the Lurians Hate You Association © Lurian Empire 1012
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Hardly, a rebellion just took place.
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But it failed, so you know it wasn't 100% Lurian™!
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Luria's INTELLECTUAL side???... We are medieval nobles... Lurian Medieval Nobles!!! Our intellect reach just enough to tell the dangerous end of a sword from the safe. ;D
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Speak for yourself good sir, there are those of loquacious enough and of great enough wit within the greater boundaries of Luria to to take immense offense at your assuredly quick and ill thought words.
~Sevastian Guile
/end character rant
I personally enjoy the holy hell out of the the depth of intellect that IS shown in Luria. There are some spectacular minds, and seeing them work together against an external threat is a frightening thought indeed.
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Speak for yourself good sir, there are those of loquacious enough and of great enough wit within the greater boundaries of Luria to to take immense offense at your assuredly quick and ill thought words.
~Sevastian Guile
/end character rant
I personally enjoy the holy hell out of the the depth of intellect that IS shown in Luria. There are some spectacular minds, and seeing them work together against an external threat is a frightening thought indeed.
The working together part is what we have trouble with. But honestly, why do we have word duels all the time?
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This is where we should go for the brawn method and try and cut each other up with sharp swords and pointy things. That is a much more fun, and Noble way :P
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/me clears his throat.
Solaria is still recruiting! Come join! We've got lands. We've got golds. We've got titles. We've got monsters. Aaaaaand..... We've got some goofy federation thing going on that I am thankfully ignorant of!
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/me clears his throat.
Solaria is still recruiting! Come join! We've got lands. We've got golds. We've got titles. We've got monsters. Aaaaaand..... We've got some goofy federation thing going on that I am thankfully ignorant of!
Landz? GOLDZ? TITLEZ?!? :o
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Haha, loquacious. What a funny word. ;)
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When has the Lurias ever had to deal with a substantial threat? Curious is all.
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When has the Lurias ever had to deal with a substantial threat? Curious is all.
You mean besides from each other? ;D
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Fissoa doesnt count ;D
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Haha, loquacious. What a funny word. ;)
I do what I can to please.
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And I'm canned to do what I please. 8)
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/me clears his throat.
Solaria is still recruiting! Come join! We've got lands. We've got golds. We've got titles. We've got monsters. Aaaaaand..... We've got some goofy federation thing going on that I am thankfully ignorant of!
We've hardly got titles. Anyone not in Solaria should see what the elections are like. Two lordships given up and made for election. A day before they're finished, Malus appoints other lords to said regions, boning the whole elective campaign (which is awesome since he's a tyrant.) Now, another region pops up, and everyone jumps at the opportunity and runs.
If anything, for one title that was suppose to be three, you compete with a good 7 knights for it.
As for gold, well..... its a scam. Monsters we have plenty of, that's for sure, and a federation - if you wanna call it that - is almost done being established.
JOIN TODAY for YOUR chance at becoming a maybe Lurian Lord today! :P.
Update: Well it seems that lordship was bugged and a character 5 days old got appointed the position. Truly a mysterious place this Solaria land ;).
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Ahem. Two lordships opened up because one paused when we found out he was going to attempt a hamfisted rebellion, and the other through inactivity. One person gave up a duchy to make way for another and was appointed to the region where the lord went inactive. The other vacancy was filled by an existing lord, who's region was filled manually after the election never started. As to why a character who'd been there 5 days was appointed, there was a well-established link between her "father", the Duke of Astrum and Malus, and she came to Solaria by invitation.
Mind you, three of the other candidates had been in the realm LESS than five days, and happened to lead a failed rebellion in the neighboring realm. And, oh yeah, they're all Pyrist zealots coming to a realm that is increasingly filling up with them while the anti-Astroist rhetoric grows. Can't imagine why I wouldn't just let the election run! But you wouldn't be knowing anything about all that, huh? ;)
PS: We're taking Axewild and Girich, and those elections WILL run without intervention.
PSS: And you're earning more than 100 gold per week, not accounting for the ridiculously high rates I run in the town, after three days in the realm, having taken the smallest estate I had, and having narrowly avoided a Federation-wide banishment thanks to my furious lobbying. Remind me again why I expend so much goodwill on people who never recognize it? Oh yeah, because I'm an idiot!
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Ahem. Two lordships opened up because one paused when we found out he was going to attempt a hamfisted rebellion, and the other through inactivity. One person gave up a duchy to make way for another and was appointed to the region where the lord went inactive. The other vacancy was filled by an existing lord, who's region was filled manually after the election never started. As to why a character who'd been there 5 days was appointed, there was a well-established link between her "father", the Duke of Astrum and Malus, and she came to Solaria by invitation.
Mind you, three of the other candidates had been in the realm LESS than five days, and happened to lead a failed rebellion in the neighboring realm. And, oh yeah, they're all Pyrist zealots coming to a realm that is increasingly filling up with them while the anti-Astroist rhetoric grows. Can't imagine why I wouldn't just let the election run! But you wouldn't be knowing anything about all that, huh? ;)
PS: We're taking Axewild and Girich, and those elections WILL run without intervention.
Vote in Brom for one of the lordships and I may let you keep your Rulership. ;)
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As to why a character who'd been there 5 days was appointed, there was a well-established link between her "father", the Duke of Astrum and Malus, and she came to Solaria by invitation.
That is me. Muwahahah! ;)
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PSS: And you're earning more than 100 gold per week,
As a D'Haran I laugh at that paltry sum.
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From what i hear D'harans remind me of the trade princes from ASOIAF
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Ahem. Two lordships opened up because one paused when we found out he was going to attempt a hamfisted rebellion, and the other through inactivity. One person gave up a duchy to make way for another and was appointed to the region where the lord went inactive. The other vacancy was filled by an existing lord, who's region was filled manually after the election never started. As to why a character who'd been there 5 days was appointed, there was a well-established link between her "father", the Duke of Astrum and Malus, and she came to Solaria by invitation.
Mind you, three of the other candidates had been in the realm LESS than five days, and happened to lead a failed rebellion in the neighboring realm. And, oh yeah, they're all Pyrist zealots coming to a realm that is increasingly filling up with them while the anti-Astroist rhetoric grows. Can't imagine why I wouldn't just let the election run! But you wouldn't be knowing anything about all that, huh? ;)
PS: We're taking Axewild and Girich, and those elections WILL run without intervention.
PSS: And you're earning more than 100 gold per week, not accounting for the ridiculously high rates I run in the town, after three days in the realm, having taken the smallest estate I had, and having narrowly avoided a Federation-wide banishment thanks to my furious lobbying. Remind me again why I expend so much goodwill on people who never recognize it? Oh yeah, because I'm an idiot!
Mind you, I find it hilarious and fully support it. There were about 7 people running. 2 people lead the failed rebellion and ran, which doesn't even account for a third of the runners. And like SA is prevalent in Solaria, not a single word mentioning stars, religion, or a dark red color has been mentioned as of yet; some zealots you guys are :P.
PS: SURE they will. That's what you said about Flying Hongrns.
PSS: I made 77 gold on the last tax day, which is about 77% of the minimum figure you're putting forward. When it comes to gold, Solari offers the flip side of the truth 8).
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Mind you, I find it hilarious and fully support it. There were about 7 people running. 2 people lead the failed rebellion and ran, which doesn't even account for a third of the runners. And like SA is prevalent in Solaria, not a single word mentioning stars, religion, or a dark red color has been mentioned as of yet; some zealots you guys are :P.
PSS: I made 77 gold on the last tax day, which is about 77% of the minimum figure you're putting forward. When it comes to gold, Solari offers the flip side of the truth 8).
You had some wild lands that needed to be assigned. Should be higher now. If it isn't to your liking, there are about 30 other vacant estates in the realm. You choose the Purlieus, remember. There aren't any zealots in Solaria because it isn't an Astrocracy. There are more Pyrists than Astroists, and more pagans than both of them combined. What sort of propaganda does AP issue its members? >:(
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You had some wild lands that needed to be assigned. Should be higher now. If it isn't to your liking, there are about 30 other vacant estates in the realm. You choose the Purlieus, remember. There aren't any zealots in Solaria because it isn't an Astrocracy. There are more Pyrists than Astroists, and more pagans than both of them combined. What sort of propaganda does AP issue its members? >:(
Sorry to inform you but it was you who supported the zealots, not the Church. AP is actually trialing them for heresy.
You make the mistake, we get stuck fixing it, you blame it on us! >:(
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Sorry to inform you but it was you who supported the zealots, not the Church. AP is actually trialing them for heresy.
You make the mistake, we get stuck fixing it, you blame it on us! >:(
I have the worst judgement ever. :'(
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I have the worst judgement ever. :'(
I know that's not regarding me! ;D
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I know that's not regarding me! ;D
Nope, its regarding me(and friends). He's realizing that without the Manifest Path to balance things out, Solaria is going to be overrun.
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Nope, its regarding me(and friends). He's realizing that without the Manifest Path to balance things out, Solaria is going to be overrun.
Oh noes my legacy. :'(
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Oh noes my legacy. :'(
So get someone to found Quintarianism (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/index.php/Quintarianism) if you're worried about having a counterbalance to other religions in the area. It's realm-agnostic, has prescriptions for practical life, and is looking for a home in BM.
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So get someone to found Quintarianism (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/index.php/Quintarianism) if you're worried about having a counterbalance to other religions in the area. It's realm-agnostic, has prescriptions for practical life, and is looking for a home in BM.
Didn't you try to found that in Carelia or something?
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Didn't you try to found that in Carelia or something?
I had planned to, but then Carelia was getting its ass handed to it by a realm with a militantly realm-supportive religion.
That didn't seem like a recipe for longevity.
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Solaria already has Sanguis Astroism. Nothing else is important.
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But Rob, what if Solari just doesn't like SA? What if he wants better association?
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So get someone to found Quintarianism (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/index.php/Quintarianism) if you're worried about having a counterbalance to other religions in the area. It's realm-agnostic, has prescriptions for practical life, and is looking for a home in BM.
I like to believe AP is also realm-agnostic and has prescriptions for practical life.
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Who said he has a choice?
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All shall join the Sanguis Astroborg.
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You don't choose to follow the Stars. They simply choose you! PIKACHU I CHOOSE YOU!
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All shall join the Sanguis Astroborg.
Set phasers to Bloodstar. 8)
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Set phasers to Bloodstar. 8)
+1 good sir
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You don't choose to follow the Stars. They simply choose you!
Oh look, Tulip Stars!
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Set phasers to Bloodstar. 8)
You will be Allisimilated!
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Highly Illogical...
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For the stated intention to cause grievous harm to the Preda of Solaria, the attempted murder of Hendrick of House Madigan and Bremen of House Ohmsford, and for the murder of Francoise of House Duvaille, Justice of Solaria, a blood debt is owed to Solaria and its vassal houses by Jeffrey of House Norrel. No expense will be spared and no quarter given in the collection of this debt. The noble Houses of Solaria call upon the Imperial Council to address the very serious crimes committed by a Novan on Solarian soil after he had been explicitly ordered to depart.
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I had something to say about all this, but in all honesty, this is mainly an excuse to show off my new, Solari-created signature.
However, I'm also so excited for more blood feuds.
Blood feuds!
Blood feuds!
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Aww yeah
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Ah, back to the blood feuds. That didn't end well last time...
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Ah, back to the blood feuds. That didn't end well last time...
I am more optimistic about these ones.
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Ah, back to the blood feuds. That didn't end well last time...
Well, didn't end well for some people...
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This is going to be fun. Nice bit of drama to the otherwise dull winter. And a death to boot!
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R.I.P. D'Hara. :'(
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Yeah, pretty much. Sucks to be Terran right now. Looks like they're going to be trying to tame the Aurvandilian dragon pretty much by themselves. I'd start talking peace, and fast.
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What happened? Starvation?
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What happened? Starvation?
Starvation made them weak. The finishing blow will be intentional.
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What happened? Starvation?
D'Hara wishes. Luria (like, all of it, not just one realm) just declared they would be going to war with D'Hara. I don't see any formal declarations yet, but Alanna made the annoucement in the rulers channel about an hour ago.
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I called the D'haran downfall Days ago on IRC. Man we are losing realms left and right. Oh well, you were a good enemy whilst you were one D'hara. :P
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They will have to travel through days of starvation, over the sea lane to Port Nebel, before they can attack. Have fun with that.
They'd been promising for weeks to attack Aurvandil, and then turn and attack D'Hara instead? Cowards.
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They will have to travel through days of starvation, over the sea lane to Port Nebel, before they can attack. Have fun with that.
They'd been promising for weeks to attack Aurvandil, and then turn and attack D'Hara instead? Cowards.
It has nothing to do with being afraid of Aurvandil, though I suppose there is an element of cowardice involved. However, it's more like political cowardice, since attacking Aurvandil without ripping Luria apart might have required some tricky maneuvering internally.
No, the reasons given for attacking D'Hara are real, and only the internal politics weighed heavier, not worries that Aurvandil would chew us up and spit us out.
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Still pretty low to promise someone aid for weeks only to turn on them in their hour of need. Any way you spin it.
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No lower than D'hara and Terran going to war with Aurvandil while their ally Barca is trying to sue for peace, and pretty much ensure the destruction of that realm.
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Running a kingdom has nothing to do with morals and if you think it does you are in dream land... Virtue is attained by the victor. This isnt the 20th century, THIS IS BATTLEMASTER!!!!!! N. n nbnbnhggh
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I think the notion that Luria isn't also going to move against Aurvandil/Falkirk is premature. Just saying. There are five of us. We can muli-task.
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5? I only count 4.
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No lower than D'hara and Terran going to war with Aurvandil while their ally Barca is trying to sue for peace, and pretty much ensure the destruction of that realm.
With all due respect, Barca didn't lose a single region to Aurvandil. They lost it to starvation.
And strangely, Terran didn't lose any regions to starvation, yet Barca's surplus was bigger. We call that "Your own damn fault" where I come from.
Honestly, without this apocalyptic level of starvation, we'd still have to be seeking peace, but it'd be a very different ballgame. The current situation in the Moot is 100% politics. Without Lurian support, Aurvandil could beat us, but only gradually, and it'd be a brokered peace settlement. But with Luria hitting D'Hara, we'd have had to seek peace and made real concessions. But with Luria hitting D'Hara AND starvation on a scale which I have personally never before witnessed in Battlemaster... yeah, we're !@#$ed. It's just a question of how much we're going to lose.
On the other hand, if we get lots of D'Haran and Barcan refugees and our noble count spikes, that could help us a lot.
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And about Luria's betrayal of the Moot....
Yeah, super low. In hindsight I shoulda' seen it coming, but I didn't. Hireshmont really thought Solari really liked him. :'(
Now he feels like the ugly girl at the dance.
Terran's only real hope is that something geopolitical will change before Aurvandil can consolidate the gap between Terran's southern border and their northern border, and thereby remove the Great Wall of Hunger.
But however this ends up, Hireshmont's career may very well be over. He's a "fall on his sword in disgrace" kind of guy (which is totally the heroic equivalent of ragequitting, btw).
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In hindsight I shoulda' seen it coming, but I didn't. Hireshmont really thought Solari really liked him. :'(
Well there's your first mistake right there.
Shoot, trusting that Luria would stay quietly in its own corner not hurting anyone like it has since Dwilight's existence was a mistake as soon as Brom left and Alanna stayed while building internal support. This event has been building up since the day that Brom left Luria (and before that even) but the true warning should have come when Brom left. It was only a matter of time before Luria truly united, although I didn't expect Alanna to seize power so quickly.
Brom was the last major divisive element within Luria as he personally eliminated most of the other divisive elements himself (or caused them to eliminate themselves) while also getting out.
I think you'll find a united Luria, if it can remain so internally, will be a force to be reckoned with just as deadly as Aurvandil or close to it. Plus, with Alanna in the lead for now, she'll be able to maintain solid control quite readily. I doubt it'll be a long time before someone else can build up the solid internal following that Brom did in order to cause the political turmoil he did, without being stopped in its tracks before it reaches true strength. (If ever).
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It was only a matter of time before Luria truly united, although I didn't expect Alanna to seize power so quickly.
Weeeeell...I think "seize power" is a bit strong. Luria is a fractious, headstrong team of 4 horses, and Alanna's now holding the reins of all of them at once.
So far, it's taking all her strength just to keep them all moving in the same direction. "Truly united" is also a bit strong. ;D
I think you'll find a united Luria, if it can remain so internally, will be a force to be reckoned with just as deadly as Aurvandil or close to it. Plus, with Alanna in the lead for now, she'll be able to maintain solid control quite readily. I doubt it'll be a long time before someone else can build up the solid internal following that Brom did in order to cause the political turmoil he did, without being stopped in its tracks before it reaches true strength. (If ever).
If Alanna can actually guide this beast (I won't even bother to try using the word "control"), then yes, Luria could indeed be pretty darn deadly. This war will hopefully start the process of weeding out the people who have been content to skate by during the period of reorganization. (And frankly, I consider that period to have begun the day Alanna was deposed. Everything since then has just been working to get everything sorted out with the split and the Empire.)
Alanna does have friends in Luria—some new, some old—who will probably help her keep things in line. However, it's far from a foregone conclusion at this point that anything will come of this war but Luria tearing itself apart as the shear stress overcomes the structural cohesion.
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Luria is a fractious, headstrong team of 4 horses, and Alanna's now holding the reins of all of them at once.
So far, it's taking all her strength just to keep them all moving in the same direction. "Truly united" is also a bit strong. ;D
How is that any different from beforehand? Replace "realms" with "Dukes" and you have the same combination.
This war will hopefully start the process of weeding out the people who have been content to skate by during the period of reorganization. (And frankly, I consider that period to have begun the day Alanna was deposed. Everything since then has just been working to get everything sorted out with the split and the Empire.)
I agree. If one of the Rulers happens to forward my recent RP to you, you'll see that is the case.
Alanna does have friends in Luria—some new, some old—who will probably help her keep things in line. However, it's far from a foregone conclusion at this point that anything will come of this war but Luria tearing itself apart as the shear stress overcomes the structural cohesion.
I've got friends too! :) Cheers!
Want to try guessing who they are? I won't acknowledge correct guesses though most likely. I just think it'd be funny to see what the guesses are. (Then again, I could just be making this all up right?)
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Yeah, super low. In hindsight I shoulda' seen it coming, but I didn't. Hireshmont really thought Solari really liked him. :'(
Now he feels like the ugly girl at the dance.
Hey, Malus gave you the goods when you asked, and even pledged to limit the impacts! Hireshmont doesn't control the 'moot, and Malus doesn't control Luria. Ce la vie.
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5? I only count 4.
Go further south. Fissoa is the Lurian realm that refuses to call itself Lurian.
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Go further south. Fissoa is the Lurian realm that refuses to call itself Lurian.
Sort of like Solaria? ;)
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Sort of like Solaria? ;)
Well played, sir.
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Gornak (and me) aren't actually good at politics. Hopefully my smear campaign against Solari helps turn the Lurians against him...I haven't heard from the others yet.
Ah well. Apparently Mendicant has a crush on Gornak or something, so he can go down there and be a trader in a realm with a surplus of food, rather than a deficit.
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The idea that Alanna actually controls Luria is... well pretty funny. I've got to say this war isn't Alanna consolidating power, it's not Luria being super united, It's Solaria deciding to go for an objective and quite a bit after Luria follows along. I'll be curious to see if Alanna is effectual, and my guess is, no.
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The idea that Alanna actually controls Luria is... well pretty funny. I've got to say this war isn't Alanna consolidating power, it's not Luria being super united, It's Solaria deciding to go for an objective and quite a bit after Luria follows along. I'll be curious to see if Alanna is effectual, and my guess is, no.
The real secret is that Alanna is a figurehead, and Brom is the puppetmaster behind her.
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And, now D'Hara is totally screwed by a bug in the "move capital" code...
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Hey, Malus gave you the goods when you asked, and even pledged to limit the impacts! Hireshmont doesn't control the 'moot, and Malus doesn't control Luria. Ce la vie.
True.
Which is why Hireshmont hasn't sent you any letters. There's nothing nice he can say (I deleted a message which included phrases like "approximately the honor of a peasant woman after a Zuma has had its lascivious way with her, and about the breeding of their demoniac offspring, deserving of exposure at birth and curses into eternity."), and he can't risk any pleasantries making their way back to the Moot (fraternizing with the enemy and all), but he also doesn't actually want to start a(nother) blood feud.
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Well Terran could reopen communications and cooperation with Asylon , since Asylon has been the only realm to actually go above and beyond the call of duty to help Terran and then abandoned.
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And the only realm that actively plotted betrayal against them, and drew out a map of how to carve them up, too!
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If there was any talk of betrayal it was only after Terran betrayed Asylon. I used to serve in Terran, if anything it was a desire to see Vellos put into his place.
My opinion is that Terran and Asylon had much longer friendly relations than frosty and if former friends cannot forgive faults then there is no use to friendships. Asylon and Terran both were under a lot of stress when our relations soured. My opinion is to recognize that but also move passed it and extend a hand once again to return to how things were. I am not one to hold a grudge or be bitter very long about something. We were both under stress and now things have become clear and leadership in Asylon has changed I believe it would be in their interest to rebuild relations.
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My opinion is that maybe Asylon should fix itself first, seeing that it's lost almost half its realm.
Terran should pull a Switzerland and declare absolute neutrality.
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My opinion is that maybe Asylon should fix itself first, seeing that it's lost almost half its realm.
Terran should pull a Switzerland and declare absolute neutrality.
Nah, Aurvandil has declared that Terran will be destroyed.
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Nah, Aurvandil has declared that Terran will be destroyed.
Then Terran should promise Luria the D'Haran lands in return for their support :)
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Nah, Aurvandil has declared that Terran will be destroyed.
The Moot stuck between a hammer and an anvil.
Time for SA to swear fealty to Aurvandil and for Luria to federate with them. Then finally the Zuma can be eliminated.
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If the damn Zuma were ever destroyed it would open a beautiful (...ish...) mass of regions ripe for the plucking, changing the political scope of those southern lands and opening up the gates for more interesting wars and even new realms.
With that said, everyone is going to get !@#$ed up this month.
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If the damn Zuma were ever destroyed it would open a beautiful (...ish...) mass of regions ripe for the plucking, changing the political scope of those southern lands and opening up the gates for more interesting wars and even new realms.
Take a look at how much gold and food the Zuma regions produce...
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Have you seen their production and morale? >_> They're pitiful.
Also, for some really WEIRD reason, the Zuma love Kabrinskia and hate every other nation, hating the ZUMA(!!!) most of all. Ironic and hilarious.
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Then Terran should promise Luria the D'Haran lands in return for their support :)
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No thank you. We will not hand our allies and friends over on a silver platter, and for what - empty promises?
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No thank you. We will not hand our allies and friends over on a silver platter, and for what - empty promises?
Heads - Empty Promises
Tails - Death
and...flip!
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The silver platter would have been a nice gesture. Guess us Solarians are just gonna have to push on. Poor D'hara. Should've kept their mainland invasion plots a little quieter.
And dear lord, the generals have been a riot.
Sevastian v. Kendal. Sevastian v. Tarajist. Chatter from the 'moot.
So entertaining. Gotta love Dwilight, when people actually talk,
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And dear lord, the generals have been a riot.
That they have; Eoghan's getting annoyed but I'm chuckling at the cacophony. Debating weighing in vs weighing in and think I'll stay out of it. :P
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The Moot stuck between a hammer and an anvil.
Time for SA to swear fealty to Aurvandil and for Luria to federate with them. Then finally the Zuma can be eliminated.
Go ahead and sigh on the dotted line and we'll only take 50% of your tax income and not allow you to build walls higher than lvl 1. Trust me the other options are much worse :P
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So entertaining. Gotta love Dwilight, when people actually talk,
Where don't they?
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The silver platter would have been a nice gesture. Guess us Solarians are just gonna have to push on. Poor D'hara. Should've kept their mainland invasion plots a little quieter.
And dear lord, the generals have been a riot.
Sevastian v. Kendal. Sevastian v. Tarajist. Chatter from the 'moot.
So entertaining. Gotta love Dwilight, when people actually talk,
For the last time--we had no plots to invade Giask.
Here's a summary of the conversations in the House of Lords months ago:
Chenier: Fissoa declared war without consulting us, and wants us to attack Giask. We have an alliance with them but it is only defensive.
Kendal: The Lurians are a bunch of snakes, that's why I left. They have always wanted to attack D'Hara.
Gornak, other nobles: We buy food from the Lurians. This will be bad for business and feeding our realm. Also, we have a total lack of cohesion in the army--our nobles could never pull this off, and they will see us coming for several days before we even arrive over that blasted sea route. There's no way this will ever work.
Message to Fissoa: Sorry, you got yourselves in this war without us, you'll have to get yourselves out of it the same way.
If that is "plotting", then "Bloodstars" is my middle name.
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For the last time--we had no plots to invade Giask.
Here's a summary of the conversations in the House of Lords months ago:
Chenier: Fissoa declared war without consulting us, and wants us to attack Giask. We have an alliance with them but it is only defensive.
Kendal: The Lurians are a bunch of snakes, that's why I left. They have always wanted to attack D'Hara.
Gornak, other nobles: We buy food from the Lurians. This will be bad for business and feeding our realm. Also, we have a total lack of cohesion in the army--our nobles could never pull this off, and they will see us coming for several days before we even arrive over that blasted sea route. There's no way this will ever work.
Message to Fissoa: Sorry, you got yourselves in this war without us, you'll have to get yourselves out of it the same way.
If that is "plotting", then "Bloodstars" is my middle name.
Then you can blame Chénier for the attack, because that's not what he told Luria.
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Blame Canada!
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Then you can blame Chénier...
Ah, the old Anaris line. Things change, but some things stay the same. ;D
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D'Hara truly does have the blame for this one.
Brom asked you for your support in helping Pian en Luries fight back the rest of Luria. Instead you stood by and watched. Now you get destroyed. Just goes to show the golden rule:
"Help Brom no matter what, but make sure that you never get caught doing so."
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Then you can blame Chénier for the attack, because that's not what he told Luria.
I need to Exile him...pondering, pondering...
We may have discussed it for a few days, but that's normal for anything Battlemaster. We didn't raise an army or anything like that.
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Ah, yes, the time-honored tactic of "blaming the paused noble".
This noble insulted our banner, slept with my daughter, and defecated on my bed! I demand satisfaction from your realm! What do you mean I need proof?! I don't need no stinking proof! He's not denying it is he?!
D'Hara truly does have the blame for this one.
Brom asked you for your support in helping Pian en Luries fight back the rest of Luria. Instead you stood by and watched. Now you get destroyed. Just goes to show the golden rule:
"Help Brom no matter what, but make sure that you never get caught doing so."
No, that would have just given the Lurians a legitimate reason to destroy us. You picked a fight that you had no chance to win, and then balked when others refuse to commit suicide with you.
My realm lasted longer than your realm. That's a win in my book. ;)
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..and defecated on my bed!
What sort of crazy bastard would do this?!
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What sort of crazy bastard would do this?!
The best one.
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Why are we actually having a debate about whether a reason to go to war is acceptable or not? The reasons given IC are accurate, as experienced by the characters involved. Debating the merits of the decision to go to war is just silly, though. It's called BattleMaster, folks.
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What sort of crazy bastard would do this?!
What sort of crazy person cuts off a limb of every messenger that Brom sends to him? Long story short: It only happens in Luria.
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What sort of crazy person cuts off a limb of every messenger that Brom sends to him? Long story short: It only happens in Luria.
Wasn't the Terrance-bed-defecation done in Candiels?
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Man, for a while there this thread felt like reddit... -_-
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What sort of crazy person cuts off a limb of every messenger that Brom sends to him? Long story short: It only happens in Luria.
:D
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I'm pretty sure Brom has nothing to do with the current war.
And by pretty sure, I mean certain.
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I just want Hireshmont to be more heavily discredited.
My RP for my next Dwilight character requires Hireshmont to commit suicide in disgrace and shame. I was hoping that it'd come in a climactic attempt to coerce D'Hara and Barca to accept him as some kind of imperial figure, but that's impossible now. The present circumstances look okay for it though.
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Shoot me an OOC pm on Alura. I was going to make a proposal to you anyway :-)
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I just want Hireshmont to be more heavily discredited.
My RP for my next Dwilight character requires Hireshmont to commit suicide in disgrace and shame. I was hoping that it'd come in a climactic attempt to coerce D'Hara and Barca to accept him as some kind of imperial figure, but that's impossible now. The present circumstances look okay for it though.
That can be arranged. Say something in the Senate. Shino will jump on you as usual. ;D
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In other news, Tarajist Balewind, Luria Nova's General, is, apparently, attempting to get Luria Nova to either remove itself or be forcibly removed from the Lurian Empire.
Alanna's doing what she can to simply remove him, instead, but he seems to have somehow convinced the Judge that he's not only competent, but stellar, and that anyone who criticises him (however factually) is impugning his honour and generally being a poopyface.
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That can be arranged. Say something in the Senate. Shino will jump on you as usual. ;D
Lets do it. :-P I think suicide or death-by-battle would be an epic end to Hireshmont's legacy.
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I just want Hireshmont to be more heavily discredited.
My RP for my next Dwilight character requires Hireshmont to commit suicide in disgrace and shame. I was hoping that it'd come in a climactic attempt to coerce D'Hara and Barca to accept him as some kind of imperial figure, but that's impossible now. The present circumstances look okay for it though.
Holy political spin, you are sure apt at turning your own irrelevancy around. " oh dont worry I intended to roleplay my character as a discredited loser all along" yeah right...
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The Vellos family have always been spinmasters.
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In other news, Tarajist Balewind, Luria Nova's General, is, apparently, attempting to get Luria Nova to either remove itself or be forcibly removed from the Lurian Empire.
Alanna's doing what she can to simply remove him, instead, but he seems to have somehow convinced the Judge that he's not only competent, but stellar, and that anyone who criticises him (however factually) is impugning his honour and generally being a poopyface.
Balewind's do make good Generals...assuming the have something to work with.
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Balewind's do make good Generals...assuming the have something to work with.
That has not been our experiance
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I am curious to see not the performance of tried and true players, but of those who have recently joined the fray.
Upon visiting the list of players in Terran I realized that (approximately of course) half of the nation have played for over 1,200 days while the other half quite literally joined either the day after (Shino Uzamaki) or weeks/months after I did, with only a hand-counting of players being somewhat older than I am while still remaining fresh to the scene.
Half of our Lords, once again, are new players while the other half are historical players who've been here for years. I find this very interesting and have been overjoyed to see the shifting sands of political intrigue churn like butter, giving ample opportunity to those of us who have either extensive non-BM RP/leadership experience to test the waters of this game's unique system, or those who are energetic and hoping for a virginal foray into the chaos that is Lordship/Marshaldom.
My, what fun times indeed!
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That has not been our experiance
Fact.
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Holy political spin, you are sure apt at turning your own irrelevancy around. " oh dont worry I intended to roleplay my character as a discredited loser all along" yeah right...
Actually, to be fair, Vellos has been trying to kill off Hireshmont for at least two years now. He has had an RP-ed son in line to replace Hireshmont as his Dwilight character for ages.
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I'd be quite curious to meet this supposed son-in-law. Hireshmont II has ruled long over Terran - I think its time we switch it up for Vellos' sanity and Terran's sake :P
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I have a son too, but he is from a D'Haran harlot and a complete imbecile... Just wait till Glaumring dies and he rises up from his ashes.
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son-in-law.
Not a son-in-law; he's actually an adoptive son from out in the Zuma lands, I think. Either that or from out in the Marwood somewhere. Also, IIRC, he was tutored by Labell Enstance.
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I have a son too, but he is from a D'Haran harlot and a complete imbecile... Just wait till Glaumring dies and he rises up from his ashes.
Hey, that's offensive. Our painted ladies of the night prefer the title "men's health specialist". 8)
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Balewind's do make good Generals...assuming the have something to work with.
Yeah...not so much.
They're very happy to tell you they make great Generals, but in my experience and that of every single other person I've talked to who has fought either under or against a Balewind General, they've been pretty darn bad.
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Holy political spin, you are sure apt at turning your own irrelevancy around. " oh dont worry I intended to roleplay my character as a discredited loser all along" yeah right...
Except it's true. As Perth noted, I put in a son years ago.
Hireshmont was about to marry the Queen of Asylon when the player paused. Plan A was marry into Asylonian royalty and send Alexander (son) to Asylon. Meanwhile, Hireshmont would consolidate the Moot. Slow, steady politics and minor border wars (see: Kabrinskia) would gradually bind the Moot closer and closer, and Hireshmont would continue using consensus-based politics and increasingly restrictive treaties to increase his personal power. Furthermore, connections abroad would render him increasingly diplomatically essential. Eventually, he would either over-reach and burn out in a flame of would-be imperialism, or he would succeed, rule, and retire... right before I started Alexander in Asylon.
Alexander would be the child of Asylonian and Mootian royalty. Except Addridae paused, so Alexander ended up an adoptive son of lesser Mesoccidental nobility, tutored by Labell Enstance. And then Aurvandil proved more meddlesome than I anticipated, D'Hara more inependent, and Barca more incompetent. And then Terran's younger Senators decided they didn't like Friendly Terran and wanted Political Terran. And then starvation came.
And now Hireshmont won't go out in a blaze of glory reaching for the stars, nor have royal progeny. Meh. Happens.
So.... Luria!
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And then Terran's younger Senators decided they didn't like Friendly Terran and wanted Political Terran.
;D
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;D
Ya know, we talked about banning you outright when you arrived. Hireshmont and Kale stood up for you. What a mistake.
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Ya know, we talked about banning you outright when you arrived. Hireshmont and Kale stood up for you. What a mistake.
Yikes, I forgot how tyrannical Republics can be...
Besides, I haven't had an anti-SA rant in quite a while.
EDIT: Besides, there are a few Senators beginning to love Shino. I don't know why. He is a prickly man to work with....
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Yeah...not so much.
They're very happy to tell you they make great Generals, but in my experience and that of every single other person I've talked to who has fought either under or against a Balewind General, they've been pretty darn bad.
Ah. Well, it was hard to tell if it was Giblot or Nightling that deserved more of the blame; probably 50/50.
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Ah, Shino. <3
How you piss me off, yet tickle my fancy with your antics.
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Hireshmont was about to marry the Queen of Asylon when the player paused.
He and so many others, she was quite a spider in the web.
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He and so many others, she was quite a spider in the web.
Really? Interesting.
In other news: Hireshmont passed his vote of confidence. And is now purging his political opponents. We'll see how this goes...
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Really? Interesting.
In other news: Hireshmont passed his vote of confidence. And is now purging his political opponents. We'll see how this goes...
Ooo. Interesting. Hireshmont passes a vote of confidence on a random tie breaker and presents trumped up evidence to get Shino out. Now Shino is demanding a trial, and gathering evidence to clear his name.
We will see what happens!
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Ooo. Interesting. Hireshmont passes a vote of confidence on a random tie breaker and presents trumped up evidence to get Shino out. Now Shino is demanding a trial, and gathering evidence to clear his name.
We will see what happens!
If it's trumped up, I'll be the most surprised of any of us.
Seriously though, if Hireshmont can purge Shino... that'd be such a help.
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If it's trumped up, I'll be the most surprised of any of us.
Seriously though, if Hireshmont can purge Shino... that'd be such a help.
OOC, I can confirm it is trumped up.
Such a help for Hireshmont maybe. As for Terran... :-\
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Just when I thought the Vote of Confidence results would calm things down in the Republic.... now this.
Now Kale REALLY dislikes Shino, lol.
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Just when I thought the Vote of Confidence results would calm things down in the Republic.... now this.
Now Kale REALLY dislikes Shino, lol.
He has letters from the Vasilif of Asylon now, clearing his name. He has some other evidences, but he would prefer not to use it. It is rather personal...
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He has letters from the Vasilif of Asylon now, clearing his name. He has some other evidences, but he would prefer not to use it. It is rather personal...
'
Pieces of paper, like they prove anything
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'
Pieces of paper, like they prove anything
It is just a piece of paper that they have him accused of. He also is having the Vasilif corroborate that fact to the Ambassador, Chief Magistrate, and Magistrate of Justice. ;D
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It is just a piece of paper that they have him accused of. He also is having the Vasilif corroborate that fact to the Ambassador, Chief Magistrate, and Magistrate of Justice. ;D
This is like having Bonnie and Clyde swear for each other's innocence in the bank robbery.
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This is like having Bonnie and Clyde swear for each other's innocence in the bank robbery.
Like I said, I have more evidences. And I will present it. And it will probably help him.
Besides, we don't even know where the accusatory letter came from, and the one it was supposedly sent to has said that it was never sent to him. Points Shino intends to bank on in his trial.
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Malus wades into Terran politics by sharing with the rulers of Dwilight what Hireshmont has already been told: that the Magistrate of Terran coordinated treason within Solaria in an attempt to discredit Hireshmont, assume his place, and unite all of the 'moot realms under a single empire. Oh, and that he has a network of goons that work with him to round up advies and serially torture them. THAT's pretty cool. Wish I'd thought of that idea myself.
Ah, Vellos. We're like binary stars. Always orbiting, never intersecting. :'(
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Malus wades into Terran politics by sharing with the rulers of Dwilight what Hireshmont has already been told: that the Magistrate of Terran coordinated treason within Solaria in an attempt to discredit Hireshmont, assume his place, and unite all of the 'moot realms under a single empire. Oh, and that he has a network of goons that work with him to round up advies and serially torture them. THAT's pretty cool. Wish I'd thought of that idea myself.
Ah, Vellos. We're like binary stars. Always orbiting, never intersecting. :'(
Is this Erasmus?
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He has letters from the Vasilif of Asylon now, clearing his name. He has some other evidences, but he would prefer not to use it. It is rather personal...
I think you meant Astrum, Asylon doesnt have a Vasilif.
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I think you meant Astrum, Asylon doesnt have a Vasilif.
I mean Asylon, I am just mixing up my terms... Oops. :P
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I mean Asylon, I am just mixing up my terms... Oops. :P
Cause you know, there is SOOOO much trust between Asylon and Terran right now. Why not just get the Zuma to vouch for you.
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Cause you know, there is SOOOO much trust between Asylon and Terran right now. Why not just get the Zuma to vouch for you.
HE HAS OTHER EVIDENCES. But yes, King Glaumring did do a number on our relationship... But several messages showing a complete train of thought as well as other evidences trump one letter from the Chief Magistrate that hates Shino that we have no idea where it came from.
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But I am not king anymore. :(
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HE HAS OTHER EVIDENCES. But yes, King Glaumring did do a number on our relationship... But several messages showing a complete train of thought as well as other evidences trump one letter from the Chief Magistrate that hates Shino that we have no idea where it came from.
In a modern court maybe :) No idea how fair the Terran justice system tends to be.
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But I am not king anymore. :(
Yes, but you were the head of Asylon for a while.
So this is what Shino gets for wanting better relations with Asylon. A trial.
@De-Legro True. If they go guilty until proven innocent, he may not survive the trial. But if they weigh both sides equally, or if the burden is on the prosecution, then he should win his trial.
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Asylon? Terran? That's not in Luria! Getcher own thread!
Back to Luria: holy crap what a day. Shenanigans abound.
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Weigh both sides equally? Burden of proof? What is this, modern day court drama TV? Pffffft... how sad and boring. Just lop off his head and march to war.
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Asylon? Terran? That's not in Luria! Getcher own thread!
Back to Luria: holy crap what a day. Shenanigans abound.
What's happening?
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What's happening?
The Generals of Luria Nova and Solaria have been at it, resulting in quite the little argument in LN between the general and the Imperial Chancellor, now joined by the King. In short, Tarajist is being asked to step down. Which he obviously refuses, in some of the most arrogant letters to have ever been seen in Luria (and that's saying something!).
And then there's those spies for Terran in Solaria who are getting banned and stabbed. One just joined Luria Nova with his region, immediately publishing an incriminatory letter of Malus in which he says how he wants seize control of the Lurian Empire.
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The Generals of Luria Nova and Solaria have been at it, resulting in quite the little argument in LN between the general and the Imperial Chancellor, now joined by the King. In short, Tarajist is being asked to step down. Which he obviously refuses, in some of the most arrogant letters to have ever been seen in Luria (and that's saying something!).
And then there's those spies for Terran in Solaria who are getting banned and stabbed. One just joined Luria Nova with his region, immediately publishing an incriminatory letter of Malus in which he says how he wants seize control of the Lurian Empire.
Why is it that characters seem to assume their wild accusations will be given any credence.
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Why is it that characters seem to assume their wild accusations will be given any credence.
Because if they didn't there would be no wild accusations! And wild accusations are fun!
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Because if they didn't there would be no wild accusations! And wild accusations are fun!
Cleverly engineered plots are much more fun, and more successful as well.
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Cleverly engineered plots are much more fun, and more successful as well.
But not everyone gets to see those!
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Cleverly engineered plots are much more fun, and more successful as well.
So much :effort:
Blatant opportunism achieves the same stuff, just slower and with infinitely less work and thought.
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Well I didn't see that region change coming.
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Well I didn't see that region change coming.
Not even a battle into the war and the Luria's are falling apart!
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Not even a battle into the war and the Luria's are falling apart!
Don't have an active character on Dwi, what's going on? Are the Lurias having another civil war?
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Don't have an active character on Dwi, what's going on? Are the Lurias having another civil war?
Luria had a series of regions changes(at least a couple) 1 of them going to D'Hara, their enemy.
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General Lurian stuff. Solaria was cleaning house of undesirables, some attempted to flee with their regions. Why anyone would flee with a badlands with only 90 peasants is anyones guess.
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Losing a region still looks bad and is a chore for them to take back. It hurts them even if it is minor.
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Losing a region still looks bad and is a chore for them to take back. It hurts them even if it is minor.
Right. When most the continent is losing regions to starvation losing a badlands looks bad. The region and the Lord needed constant resources to maintain, losing the region HELPS Solaria not hurts it. One less region that can't feed itself or provide a decent income.
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I'm pretty sure I've effectively cleared the air of this big pile of bull!@#$ that's going on in Terran. I was trying to avoid bringing certain information to light but a certain douchey character gave me no choice when he tried to manipulate the !@#$ out of everyone.
I totally forgot about that letter until tonight when I was drunk. I was like, I KNOW who it is IC and OOC, but how the hell do I prove it? I'm pretty sure when he told me certain things it was in OOC and not I... Oh !@#$. Wait. SCORE.
I suspected from the start but thought it beneath him... Apparently not.
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That said, though your character is a flaming, cunning, lying dirtbag, I love him nonetheless for his badassness <3
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Ah so this is where one goes to get information, clever. Wish I would have known of this sooner, this is how y'all do it hahaha it does make for good fun; recent turn of events I mean though they could use some spice just don't have the means to.
Peace
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Right. When most the continent is losing regions to starvation losing a badlands looks bad. The region and the Lord needed constant resources to maintain, losing the region HELPS Solaria not hurts it. One less region that can't feed itself or provide a decent income.
Yes! Exactly! Just cede most of your northern regions to D'Hara. You'll win the war in no time. :D
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Ah so this is where one goes to get information, clever. Wish I would have known of this sooner, this is how y'all do it hahaha it does make for good fun; recent turn of events I mean though they could use some spice just don't have the means to.
Peace
This is where one goes for bull!@#$.
Because if they didn't there would be no wild accusations! And wild accusations are fun!
There were some wild accusations made IC but there are some absolute bull!@#$ wild accusations being made here ooc. Seems a little against the spirit of the game in my opinion.
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Too bad people are not creative, changing a region's allegiance to start a war has happened before in luria...
Oh wait, why I care, good excuse to finally burn solaria!
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Nid Tek is annoying, but that's being remedied without the hassle of a TO. Losing Alley of Swords is sort of a blessing. The Divides are an albatross, and I'd planned to shackle them to Sallowtown anyway. Tried to do it politely with a joint colony with D'Hara, but they lack the spirit of adventure, so now we're doing it the hard way. :-\
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Nid Tek is annoying, but that's being remedied without the hassle of a TO. Losing Alley of Swords is sort of a blessing. The Divides are an albatross, and I'd planned to shackle them to Sallowtown anyway. Tried to do it politely with a joint colony with D'Hara, but they lack the spirit of adventure, so now we're doing it the hard way. :-\
Actually, the duke of Sallowcape is a former Lurian, who said "I'm not joining those creeps again" when the idea was presented to him.
The three regions Solaria is taking are worthless, I don't see why you're even bothering.
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Because stubbornness. :P
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Actually, the duke of Sallowcape is a former Lurian, who said "I'm not joining those creeps again" when the idea was presented to him.
The three regions Solaria is taking are worthless, I don't see why you're even bothering.
They need a city to have a colony.
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The -three- regions?
Hehehehe
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They need a city to have a colony.
False; they can use the stronghold of Balance's Retreat. The stronghold of Qubel Lighthouse is D'Hara's capital right now.
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False; they can use the stronghold of Balance's Retreat.
False.
You need a city to secede or found a colony in.
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False; they can use the stronghold of Balance's Retreat. The stronghold of Qubel Lighthouse is D'Hara's capital right now.
Strongholds only work for CTOs. Which don't work now. If they want to form a new realm, they need a city to secede.
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Strongholds only work for CTOs. Which don't work now. If they want to form a new realm, they need a city to secede.
So you can move your capital to a stronghold, but not make it a new realm? That doesn't seem consistent.
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Not being able to secede is the only real disadvantage to a stronghold. The bank thing can be fixed by moving your capital there. Then there are other known and unknown advantages. So, the lack of secession is the only true disadvantage.
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I went from Virovene and founded a colony in Storms keep.
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Yes, you did a CTO under the old TO system.
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Ah , didnt realize that.
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And now the Lord of Askileon ragequits destroying everything. Including damaging my nice temple... :'(
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Wait, Sacha did what?
The HoL thing is pretty damned funny to me. Just saying.
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And now the Lord of Askileon ragequits destroying everything. Including damaging my nice temple... :'(
I don't think he has quit....
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I don't think he has quit....
No, because he hasn't finished raging. Then he'll quit.
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And now the Lord of Askileon ragequits destroying everything. Including damaging my nice temple... :'(
Sod the temple, he damaged my beautiful city... :'(
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Sod the temple, he damaged my beautiful city... :'(
Sod the city, one hopes he left the best infantry RC in the Luria region alone, or was that in the townsland. I forget
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Sod the city, one hopes he left the best infantry RC in the Luria region alone, or was that in the townsland. I forget
Nope, it was in the city and he destroyed them all. However none of this matters as the commoners have kicked us all out and declared their allegiance for Luria Nova.
So is the end of Pian en Luries. Survived countless civil wars to be brought down at the hands of it's own peasants. Kinda ironic in a way. :-\
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Nope, it was in the city and he destroyed them all. However none of this matters as the commoners have kicked us all out and declared their allegiance for Luria Nova.
So is the end of Pian en Luries. Survived countless civil wars to be brought down at the hands of it's own peasants. Kinda ironic in a way. :-\
That's the most awful thing ever. PeL should have had an honorable death instead of just... petering out like this.
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Well, I don't think there's any reason King Fulco shouldn't be able to hand Askileon back to Pian en Luries, same as he handed Nid Tek back to Solaria...
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Will he?
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Well, I don't think there's any reason King Fulco shouldn't be able to hand Askileon back to Pian en Luries, same as he handed Nid Tek back to Solaria...
We aren't sure when PeL will be disbanded due to not having any regions and also not sure if there needs to be a region belonging to PeL next to the region to be given to them.
I'm hoping he would give it back though, can't let them die like this.
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We aren't sure when PeL will be disbanded due to not having any regions
Summerdale is still around. It could be long.
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Honestly, what's PeL besides some history? It's a monument of a fallen realm, it's only around because others let it, not because of their own. Anyway, will see how things play out.
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Honestly, what's PeL besides some history? It's a monument of a fallen realm, it's only around because others let it, not because of their own. Anyway, will see how things play out.
Yet let's face it, PeL wouldn't have still been around if it didn't mean something to some of the nobles in other realms; otherwise they would have just removed them a long time ago. However yes, let us see how things play out.
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Honestly, what's PeL besides some history? It's a monument of a fallen realm, it's only around because others let it, not because of their own. Anyway, will see how things play out.
Pretty much every realm is only alive because some other realms let them be alive. Every realm must have diplomacy, PeL has just had very good diplomacy in securing themselves a spot in further survival with very little to bargain with.
No realm can stand if not a single realm wants it to live.
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Summerdale is still around. It could be long.
Realm removal is a manual process. They stick around until someone pokes Tom to remove them, and he decides that it really is time. Have to give the nobles in the realm an opportunity to find new realms, and stuff like that.
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The Civil War Clock has rang! It is time for yet another one. But who will start it? ;)
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For it to be a civil war, one of the realms needs to be capable of fighting.
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For it to be a civil war, one of the realms needs to be capable of fighting.
I've got 8 MI, I'll take you all on.
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Pff, no civil war, more like correcting an old mistake with a few scratches on both sides.
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It's amazing how a realm with zero regions could be considered still alive except in the hopes and dreams of a few.
Angelique Maxwell
High Magistrate of Luna Vesperi
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It's amazing how a realm with zero regions could be considered still alive except in the hopes and dreams of a few.
Angelique Maxwell
High Magistrate of Luna Vesperi
It doesn't matter how few dream a dream, what matters is the amount of power they can bring to bear to bring the dream to fruition.
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It's amazing how a realm with zero regions could be considered still alive except in the hopes and dreams of a few.
Angelique Maxwell
High Magistrate of Luna Vesperi
I think it's more than a few dreaming that dream. Vesperi hasn't been co-operative to much, if anything. Seems like the other three kingdoms would rather eliminate the broken cog in the machine.
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I think it's more than a few dreaming that dream. Vesperi hasn't been co-operative to much, if anything. Seems like the other three kingdoms would rather eliminate the broken cog in the machine.
Two kingdoms.
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So. How gos the wars guys? What are their names anyways?
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So. How gos the wars guys? What are their names anyways?
Solaria and Luria Nova humiliated themselves against D'Hara.
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I really don't see how that happened as they are both pretty much fully functioning and D'Hara has been in the crapper for quite a while.
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I really don't see how that happened as they are both pretty much fully functioning and D'Hara has been in the crapper for quite a while.
They sent us forces, which we shamelessly crushed.
And our current state is nowhere near any of their doing, it's just global food !@#$up.
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Solaria and Luria Nova humiliated themselves against D'Hara.
Solarian military is probably the least coordinated of any army I've seen.
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Solarian military is probably the least coordinated of any army I've seen.
That's one of the most surprising things I've ever heard.
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That's one of the most surprising things I've ever heard.
You haven't seen their army arrive in 5 waves over a land-route, then. It reminds me of Madina attacking Paisly over a sea route--but Solaria's route is shorter and Madina didn't have the "delay arrival" feature.
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Solarian military is probably the least coordinated of any army I've seen.
They're.... worse than Terran?
I didn't know that was even possible....
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You haven't seen their army arrive in 5 waves over a land-route, then. It reminds me of Madina attacking Paisly over a sea route--but Solaria's route is shorter and Madina didn't have the "delay arrival" feature.
I guess I really bought in to the whole Solarian propaganda machine, then.
That's actually pretty funny because most of Solaria ripped on PeL OOC for a while for spreading soldiers out over two waves accidentally.
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They're.... worse than Terran?
I didn't know that was even possible....
We've gotten slightly better! Still bad, but better.
I'm just proud and impressed that our last refit matched Aurvandil's refit time almost exactly. Literally we began arriving in Paisland just as they began arriving in Maeotis. Should/could we have been quicker? Yes. Would being quicker have helped and opened up several opportunities for us? Yes. But we did relatively well given the circumstances.
But yeah, hard to imagine a Lurian realm being worse than Terran. Maybe its because they just can't get themselves as motivated to fight somebody that isn't a fellow Lurian?
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Yeah, it was pretty damned bad. Basically a clusterfail of communication.
So much for well laid plans. Oh well, the war continues!
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I guess I really bought in to the whole Solarian propaganda machine, then.
That's actually pretty funny because most of Solaria ripped on PeL OOC for a while for spreading soldiers out over two waves accidentally.
Yeah, we've gotten really, really, really bad. These things happen. (un?)Fortunately, I'm so busy with work and life that it's no longer my problem! Malus stepped down today. 8)
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Yeah, we've gotten really, really, really bad. These things happen. (un?)Fortunately, I'm so busy with work and life that it's no longer my problem! Malus stepped down today. 8)
[joke] Vote Hendrick Madigan for Arbiter :P [/joke]
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Yeah, we've gotten really, really, really bad. These things happen. (un?)Fortunately, I'm so busy with work and life that it's no longer my problem! Malus stepped down today. 8)
If things go a certain way, it should pick back up. Having lost the traitors, the dissidents, and other undesirables, it's about time for everyone else to realize the gain that this kind of upheaval can make possible. All except one or two in realm are active, loyal, and none too happy with their Lurian counterparts.
From what I understand, Luria Nova feels they wasted time and money on the assault because it wasn't a decisive victory. Solaria feels they wasted the exact same things, waiting on the Novans to move out of Girich and to the front. The travel times and lack of communication shafted things, but are easily remedied now that Hrok cleaned the IWC and that things are getting shaken up.
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If things go a certain way, it should pick back up. Having lost the traitors, the dissidents, and other undesirables, it's about time for everyone else to realize the gain that this kind of upheaval can make possible. All except one or two in realm are active, loyal, and none too happy with their Lurian counterparts.
I'm of the opinion that getting rid of what makes Luria unique is exactly what's killing it.
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I'm of the opinion that getting rid of what makes Luria unique is exactly what's killing it.
Nothing lasts forever.
The power struggles were what made Republic of Fwuvoghor unique, before the Lefanis banned the dissidents.
In every power struggle, you've got people who just want to win, and who will be ready to achieve it at all costs.
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Nothing lasts forever.
The power struggles were what made Republic of Fwuvoghor unique, before the Lefanis banned the dissidents.
In every power struggle, you've got people who just want to win, and who will be ready to achieve it at all costs.
er... I must point, if people didn't want to win, there wouldn't be any power struggle to begin with... 8)
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er... I must point, if people didn't want to win, there wouldn't be any power struggle to begin with... 8)
There's a difference between wanting to be the guy in charge and wanting to rule uncontested.
Jean-Olivier Chénier, devout monarchist and king of Republic of Fwuvoghor allowed dissidents to remain and even gave some positions of power to try to keep the peace.
Mordred Lefanis, self-proclaimed republican, banned the monarchists when he gained power and installed only his puppets in order to assure complete control over the realm, putting an end to the great power struggles that were what made the realm fun.
I'm inclined to believe that the same will happen with the Lurias. The splitting up into multiple realms will, imo, contribute to putting an end to the power struggles that defined the Lurias to this day.
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Jean-Olivier Chénier, devout monarchist and king of Republic of Fwuvoghor allowed dissidents to remain and even gave some positions of power to try to keep the peace.
Jean Olivier didn't have the support to kick out Mordred, who always had Belzer's backing. Besides, he kept getting voted as Arch Priest (which is why I assume JO hired Phoebe to snipe Mordred). Mordred did conspire against JO, but he always took care to do it covertly, making friends here and there, and biding his time during JO's regime and after Ben took power. Whereas both JO and Felquiste were very much overt, both called for rebellions to seize power. Worked for JO, not so much for Felquiste.
Mordred Lefanis, self-proclaimed republican, banned the monarchists when he gained power and installed only his puppets in order to assure complete control over the realm, putting an end to the great power struggles that were what made the realm fun.
Hoho. I recall that Felquiste rebelled against Ben's, along with the Terosists. He got auto banned for it. Why would Mordred have stood idly by and let him take power in the name of the theocrats? Mordred did ban Capone, but before Mordred rebelled against Ben's himself, seizing power in the name of the republicans. Don't think he banned Glithstra Valymtor, the only other of the monarchists I remember. IIRC, she left for Enweil of her own accord.
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Fwuvoghorian bitterness has no place in the Dwilight Luria thread.
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Fwuvoghorian bitterness has no place in the Dwilight Luria thread.
All power struggles are doomed to come to a conclusion. Luria is already on its way towards stabilization.
Also Lefanis, your dude wasn't always judge. He was frequently in the position, but we did have the opportunity to ban you. I chose not to.
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I'm inclined to believe that the same will happen with the Lurias. The splitting up into multiple realms will, imo, contribute to putting an end to the power struggles that defined the Lurias to this day.
Not meaning to offend, but I don't think you know what you are talking about in here. The splitting into multiple realms has little to do with diminishing the power struggles, at least in the Lurias. Nor there is lack of them, to be quite honest. You'd knew that if you were in any of the three realms.
All power struggles are doomed to come to a conclusion. Luria is already on its way towards stabilization.
I'd say it is more like a wave function, ranging from stability to chaos. And believe me, in the Lurias it changes quite fast from one to the other. To think about a stable Luria in the near future is truly laughable for anyone that knows half about what is going on.
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The Lurias have never, until now, grown the will and interest in things beyond their borders enough to launch a war.
That's a pretty obvious sign if I saw one.
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Luckily I've been in the Halls of Luria for quite a while, despite being a noble of Kabrinskia. <.<
Anyways, that means I know exactly how much in-fighting there still is.
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The interest has been there before. Many factions over the years have had the intention of invading D'Hara. They've just never been able to pull together to support the common goal.
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The Lurias just needed a driving force pushing for war outside its boundaries.
It has one now.
And Gustav: most of the infighting happens in the Elders Halls, the average member of the HoL has no access to the majority of the bickering and politicking.
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The interest has been there before. Many factions over the years have had the intention of invading D'Hara. They've just never been able to pull together to support the common goal.
Precisely what I was saying.
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The Lurias just needed a driving force pushing for war outside its boundaries.
It has one now.
And Gustav: most of the infighting happens in the Elders Halls, the average member of the HoL has no access to the majority of the bickering and politicking.
Anymore... you see, I was one of the reasons they have now withdrawn such discussion from the entirety of the guild to a fraction of it.
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Not really Gustav, more that it was too much effort to deal with more nobles then we had too.
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Sometimes it's almost too much dealing with the nobles in the Elders halls, let alone the rank and file.
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The Lurias just needed a driving force pushing for war outside its boundaries.
It has one now.
And it could have been Aurvandil! But no, ya'll were all like, "Let's go starve to death in a desert then get pwned by merchants with pointy sticks pelting us with coins." You could have been dying the waves lapping the Madinan coastline red with your blood spilled in wild assaults on the Falkirkian heathens.
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Bah, Aurvandil is a just a big misunderstood teddy bear! Everyone else seems to piss it off. I've had nothing but friendly discourses with them. :)
And yeah, starvation plus angry ugly midgets throwing coins on atlatls was a potent combination. I lost most of my men due to be trampled after they fell off their horses laughing, and then the horses joined in with a chuckle and killed most of them off with their shiny armor-shod legs and hooves. The horses survived to a man though, so well done Solarian armorers!
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And it could have been Aurvandil! But no, ya'll were all like, "Let's go starve to death in a desert then get pwned by merchants with pointy sticks pelting us with coins." You could have been dying the waves lapping the Madinan coastline red with your blood spilled in wild assaults on the Falkirkian heathens.
Lurian's get sea sick
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Lurian's get sea sick
Lurians just have perpetual backstabbing disorder.
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Aurvandil has resumed being the strongest realm on the continent (by far), and the Falkirian Freestate is rising quickly and likely to end up second.
I guess the Lurias just want to be wiped off by them.
After all, it's not as if they needed much of an excuse to wage war on Barca, breaking their treaties. If the Lurians can't even launch a successful assault on D'Hara, it's gonna be pretty painful once Aurvandil focuses eastward.
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Lurian's get sea sick
Hm... well I guess that makes the decision to, you know, try to invade D'Hara, an island nation, an even worse decision than we already thought.
Aurvandil has resumed being the strongest realm on the continent (by far), and the Falkirian Freestate is rising quickly and likely to end up second.
Aurvandil + plus Falkirk could spank any realm or coalition of realms on Dwilight. Even the Astrocracies. They are utterly unlike anything I've seen in BM before.
Bah, Aurvandil is a just a big misunderstood teddy bear! Everyone else seems to piss it off. I've had nothing but friendly discourses with them. :)
You must be a much stronger person than I. They are completely intolerable in any conversation I've 1) had with them or 2) seen transcribed to someone else. I have literally never seen arrogance and offensiveness on that level before (on BM).
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Machiavel had good discussions with them, Mendicant seemed quite found of him and D'Hara.
But that being said, we were in a federation, and it was rather silly of him to think that D'Hara wouldn't step in to help Barca. Especially when, you know, they detain what we require most: affordable food.
I don't think that Aurvandil and the Falkirian Freestate are invincible. But I do think that the more we wait, the harder it will be, because we'll be weakening each other as they grow stronger.
The thing with Aurvandil is that they have a super efficient huge army. But with sea travel, their borders will be quite porous. Everyone could strike at them from everywhere. Indeed, everyone could gather right off the coast of Candiels, wait for them to wank at Terran, and then offload onto shore in a rural next door and then march into their capital. Or just go on a general looting run. If various realms decided to interfere, without even needing their whole army, they could send marauding squads to loot Aurvandil and the Freestate, earning gold for themselves while lowering southern wealth and productivity and forcing them to split up that huge army of theirs.
Intervening south would have been a much more prudent move than letter their ally, Fissoa, get swallowed up by the Freestate. 'Cause I'm not convinced that the Freestate could have retaken all that they had lost on the isle if the Lurias had been backing Fissoa against them.
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Oh all this good talk is going to make me blush :P I'm curious as to why you guys think the Falkirks are rising in power so fast. Also the aurvandilan army has a Opoint turn radius :P
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One of many reasons why I paused my character on Dwilight.
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One of many reasons why I paused my character on Dwilight.
What? Unpause. If you think Allison has created lulz since she's left rulership, think of what Malus is going to do. After all, people know Allison is insane and have had years to take one side of a polarized spectrum of opinion. Malus has stockpiled goodwill all over the continent and keeps his trap shut about it.
There will be lulz, oh yes. 8)
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Hm... well I guess that makes the decision to, you know, try to invade D'Hara, an island nation, an even worse decision than we already thought.
Aurvandil + plus Falkirk could spank any realm or coalition of realms on Dwilight. Even the Astrocracies. They are utterly unlike anything I've seen in BM before.
You must be a much stronger person than I. They are completely intolerable in any conversation I've 1) had with them or 2) seen transcribed to someone else. I have literally never seen arrogance and offensiveness on that level before (on BM).
I meant this as my reason why.
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...wait for them to wank at Terran...
...wait for them to what?
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...wait for them to what?
He means "take a stab at them", not sure why "wank" = "stab" all of the sudden...
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He means "take a stab at them", not sure why "wank" = "stab" all of the sudden...
Because stabbing is dull.
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Aurvandil + plus Falkirk could spank any realm or coalition of realms on Dwilight. Even the Astrocracies. They are utterly unlike anything I've seen in BM before.
This kind of efficiency was routine about 5 or 6 years ago. Its how realms like Perdan, Sirion, CE, Abington, etc, were able to march around with 70KCS armies. The only thing new here is that they are controled/managed enough to do it under the new tax system.
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I don't see how any one thinks that SA couldn't defeat Aurvandil. and Falkirk. Especially if the war was fought in kabrinskian lands, pretty close to Astrum. Of the 530-ish characters on dwilight 200 of them are brought together by SA. far more than any other "faction". Even with the Aurvandil's knack for efficiency, that is still a staggering number of characters to go up against. (note that is ALL characters not just active because i didn't feel like adding up all the active characters and total characters was readily available. I just use the figure to show the staggering amount of characters in SA. It should be called Starlight instead of dwilight :P )
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This kind of efficiency was routine about 5 or 6 years ago. Its how realms like Perdan, Sirion, CE, Abington, etc, were able to march around with 70KCS armies. The only thing new here is that they are controled/managed enough to do it under the new tax system.
Maybe so. I just haven't seen anything like it in my time here (since May 2008).
But it is weird that that kind of play has been absent from BM for so long, only to be seen again now in Aurvandil?
But that being said, we were in a federation, and it was rather silly of him to think that D'Hara wouldn't step in to help Barca. Especially when, you know, they detain what we require most: affordable food.
That's because Mendicant has some weird daddy issues about commitment and alliances and stuff. And it isn't even like "Oh, I don't like alliances so I won't be in one." It's a "Oh, I don't like alliances so I won't be in one, and if you are in one I'll be pissed at you about it." He's like that friend who is always pissy at you when you're in a relationship and he isn't.
I don't think that Aurvandil and the Falkirian Freestate are invincible. But I do think that the more we wait, the harder it will be, because we'll be weakening each other as they grow stronger.
The thing with Aurvandil is that they have a super efficient huge army. But with sea travel, their borders will be quite porous. Everyone could strike at them from everywhere. Indeed, everyone could gather right off the coast of Candiels, wait for them to wank at Terran, and then offload onto shore in a rural next door and then march into their capital. Or just go on a general looting run. If various realms decided to interfere, without even needing their whole army, they could send marauding squads to loot Aurvandil and the Freestate, earning gold for themselves while lowering southern wealth and productivity and forcing them to split up that huge army of theirs.
The biggest problem that is that no one seems willing to do this. The Northern realms don't care because they don't feel threatened (too far away). An alliance between the 'Moot and the Lurias was the only real solid chance we had, and the Lurias had to go and screw the pooch on that one (which is typical, I suppose).
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That's because Mendicant has some weird daddy issues about commitment and alliances and stuff. And it isn't even like "Oh, I don't like alliances so I won't be in one." It's a "Oh, I don't like alliances so I won't be in one, and if you are in one I'll be pissed at you about it." He's like that friend who is always pissy at you when you're in a relationship and he isn't.
Can we please go to "Hatred" and then start spreading nasty rumors like this IC? If they're gonna kill us, we might as well go down flaming... ;)
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Oh, silly Lurias...
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D'hara will probably starve before we (Solaria) manage to defeat them. I'm not liking the travel times. Been too spoiled by the Atamara/Beluaterra continent I guess. Maybe I'm not cut out for Marshalship on this continent.
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D'hara will probably starve before we (Solaria) manage to defeat them. I'm not liking the travel times. Been too spoiled by the Atamara/Beluaterra continent I guess. Maybe I'm not cut out for Marshalship on this continent.
You have it right on, D'hara will starve before Solari's manages to defeat us, since we have plenty food because Solaria currently has a smaller army and never manages to arrive all at once, always waves.
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A smaller army? The Scorches consist of 3... yes 3nobles!
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A smaller army? The Scorches consist of 3... yes 3nobles!
our official eastern army is smaller but our combined forces are greater, and we do have the Dragon Corps go east when needed. Our mobile force is greater than Solaria's combined militia and mobile forces, which is pretty easy to tell when you check out statistics.
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Silly Lurians...
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Silly Lurians...
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Maybe so. I just haven't seen anything like it in my time here (since May 2008).
But it is weird that that kind of play has been absent from BM for so long, only to be seen again now in Aurvandil?
It's because of the New Estate system and how taxes have changed.
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I've got to say, we Lurians are easily the most entertaining and possibly mentally insane group in BM.
Big things ahead! Big things I say!
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Another victory against Solaria. ;)
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Lol, winning a battle does not denote victory. Any first year history student can tell you that.
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Lol, winning a battle does not denote victory. Any first year history student can tell you that.
I'm pretty sure he meant "victorious for this one battle", not "D'Hara has turned Solaria into a blackened crust."
I'm also pretty sure that you knew what he meant.
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Lol, winning a battle does not denote victory. Any first year history student can tell you that.
Victory is not a term that is exclusive to wars and that cannot be use for battles. Any first year history student can tell you that. Or, you know, any decent person.
I think it was pretty clear I wasn't claiming we had won the war. Heck, it was a pretty meaningless battle, too, you only had two nobles there. I wasn't gloating so much as teasing.
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I'm pretty sure he meant "victorious for this one battle", not "D'Hara has turned Solaria into a blackened crust."
I'm also pretty sure that you knew what he meant.
Maybe ;)
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Maybe ;)
Speaking of blackened crusts...
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Speaking of blackened crusts...
^
Life is good in Luria. It's nice being civilized.
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^
Life is good in Luria. It's nice being civilized.
Civilized isn't what all of those Solarian exiles would describe the Lurias as.
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Civilized isn't what all of those Solarian exiles would describe the Lurias as.
It has been my experience that those who get exiled from just about anywhere are dramatically more to blame for the exile than the government that exiled them is.
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It has been my experience that those who get exiled from just about anywhere are dramatically more to blame for the exile than the government that exiled them is.
Self-exile. Most had not, to my knowledge, been forced to leave.
Besides, they just confirmed what we already knew the Lurians to be.
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Having seen both sides of the fence... Luria's grass is greener.
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Self-exile. Most had not, to my knowledge, been forced to leave.
Besides, they just confirmed what we already knew the Lurians to be.
The most delightful and civilized people on Dwilight, actually looking to liven up a rather stagnant pool of corruption? Yes, you are correct!
And most of the exiles from Luria go against their will, there are legitimate reasons behind each of them. It would do the leadership of any kingdom well to research anyone incoming from traitorous means. I can think of perhaps two self-imposed exiles. And that's pushing it.
It's funny though, one Lurian state seems to harbour an unusually high number of actual Imperial Fugitives. Dunno how that's going to play out...
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Having seen both sides of the fence... Luria's grass is greener.
Grass is for cattle. ::)
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IRC is indeed a good place to vent, and recruit people! :)
Anyway, back on topic. Guess who'll be heading the wedding together with that SA priest? 8)
Now to think of cool rituals involving fire that will turn Sevastian's wedding into a personal hell. :)
So far I've got "stick your hand in the fire" and "breathe in this wacky-smelling smoke".
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IRC is indeed a good place to vent, and recruit people! :)
Anyway, back on topic. Guess who'll be heading the wedding together with that SA priest? 8)
Now to think of cool rituals involving fire that will turn Sevastian's wedding into a personal hell. :)
So far I've got "stick your hand in the fire" and "breathe in this wacky-smelling smoke".
**smack**
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IRC is indeed a good place to vent, and recruit people! :)
Anyway, back on topic. Guess who'll be heading the wedding together with that SA priest? 8)
Now to think of cool rituals involving fire that will turn Sevastian's wedding into a personal hell. :)
So far I've got "stick your hand in the fire" and "breathe in this wacky-smelling smoke".
The Astroists meet the craziest branch of Pyrism. This should be quite interesting!
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Moderator note: I have moved the cheating discussion to here:
http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,3352.0.html (http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,3352.0.html)
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IRC is indeed a good place to vent, and recruit people! :)
Anyway, back on topic. Guess who'll be heading the wedding together with that SA priest? 8)
Now to think of cool rituals involving fire that will turn Sevastian's wedding into a personal hell. :)
So far I've got "stick your hand in the fire" and "breathe in this wacky-smelling smoke".
/me slaps Lorgan.
Blood and ash are the themes for the wedding. Not fire.
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/me slaps Lorgan.
Blood and ash are the themes for the wedding. Not fire.
So... How to be a good wedding crasher? :P
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So... How to be a good wedding crasher? :P
We do need sacrifices for covering the aisle. You're welcome to volunteer. ;)
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This is turning out to be one wimpy wedding.
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/me slaps lorgan, again.
You shush. When you find a bride, you can have all the fire and burning you want. This one is going to be a flood of blood.
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This is turning out to be one wimpy wedding.
You're welcome to throw yourself on a pyre at the wedding ;)
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So... How to be a good wedding crasher? :P
Actually, they invited us. However, I think the [suspicious]random chance to capture enemy nobles in your regions[/suspicious] is probably the real reason.
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An invitation was sent out. True. Only if all arms would be laid down by any of the visiting D'Harans though.
And yup. Capturing a few D'Harans for Balint's dungeon would've been awesome.
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You're welcome to throw yourself on a pyre at the wedding ;)
Observes Lorgan's dead body in the fire
I guess this one... was just another Pyrist. 8)
Yeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh!
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Lorgan has failed to even arrive on time for the ceremony. Well done old chum!
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Lorgan has failed to even arrive on time for the ceremony. Well done old chum!
A Solarian wedding reception with fewer than three executions is considered a dull affair I hear.
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A Solarian wedding reception with fewer than three executions is considered a dull affair I hear.
A Solarian wedding with fewer than three executions is a peasants wedding, geesh. Also, congratulations Stabbity!
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Step 1:
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/11627393/Screen%20Shot%202012-10-23%20at%2012.23.03%20.png)
Step 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H91rPIq2mN4
IC reason: the Empire is as much Malus' baby as it is Kamron's. It was on life support the last few weeks.
OOC reason: if Lurians are going to constantly plot against each other, we might as well enjoy the convenience of being in the same realm to do it.
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IC reason: the Empire is as much Malus' baby as it is Kamron's. It was on life support the last few weeks.
That's funny coz Kamron has pretty much abandoned it. xD
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I wonder how much they will have to reduce their tax rates with the larger realm?
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I wonder how much they will have to reduce their tax rates with the larger realm?
A bit, to be sure. It's been communicated.
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I'm not lowering my taxes! Damn Solarians.
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Now this is more like a wedding.
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/me lols
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/me Lols hard.
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Did D'Hara just single handedly win it's war against the Lurian Empire?
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Did D'Hara just single handedly win it's war against the Lurian Empire?
Only if D'Hara is Malus and the Lurian Empire is Solaria.
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Only if D'Hara is Malus and the Lurian Empire is Solaria.
Wait is Malus Solari not the founder/ruler of Solaria?
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Wait is Malus Solari not the founder/ruler of Solaria?
It'd be an odd name-choice if he wasn't.. :P
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To clarify:
No, D'Hara did not just win its war. The two Lurian realms that were warring against it have merged. How does that sound like D'Hara wins?
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Not merged Anaris.
Merger would denote words being passed beforehand.
This would be theft.
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Can someone just explain this, I'm confused.
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Wait, was this planned? Or is this traditional Lurian reshuffling?
That place changes so fast it's hard to keep up.
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Wait, was this planned? Or is this traditional Lurian reshuffling?
That place changes so fast it's hard to keep up.
Second option, you guessed it right. ;)
Lurias will be Lurias.
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D'Hara has DEFEATED Solaria.
On another note: illegal realm merger?
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D'Hara has DEFEATED Solaria.
On another note: illegal realm merger?
Dhara will still burn, no worries. As for the realm merger thing, it were not two complete realms joining, neither it was an approved action by it's ruler. It's more a defection than a merger.
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Dhara will still burn, no worries. As for the realm merger thing, it were not two complete realms joining, neither it was an approved action by it's ruler. It's more a defection than a merger.
Right, we'll burn as we've been burning since you backstabbed us.
Uh huh.
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D'Hara has DEFEATED Solaria.
On another note: illegal realm merger?
Christ alive, this wasn't a merger, and as far as I know (and after reviewing Delvin's comments in the other thread, it wasn't) a bug exploit. Some very clever characters presented Malus with a set of facts that, when measured against what he already knew, pointed to an outcome that he found so abhorrent that he abandoned a realm named after himself. This was neither convenient nor easy for me as a player, but it is exactly what the character would have done.
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Christ alive, this wasn't a merger, and as far as I know, it wasn't a bug exploit. Some very clever characters presented Malus with a set of facts that, when measured against what he already knew, pointed to an outcome that he found so abhorrent that he abandoned a realm named after himself. This was neither convenient nor easy for me as a player, but it is exactly what the character would have done.
Reads: enterprising individuals fabricated something, and it was believed without a second thought or even a word of it to the people it implicated.
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Reads: enterprising individuals fabricated something, and it was believed without a second thought or even a word of it to the people it implicated.
You keep taking this personally, and I can only remind you that this is a game so many times.
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Christ alive, this wasn't a merger, and as far as I know, it wasn't a bug exploit. Some very clever characters presented Malus with a set of facts that, when measured against what he already knew, pointed to an outcome that he found so abhorrent that he abandoned a realm named after himself. This was neither convenient nor easy for me as a player, but it is exactly what the character would have done.
Man, I approached things completely the wrong way.
This sort of thing does make me wish I was back in Luria though.
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You keep taking this personally, and I can only remind you that this is a game so many times.
No, I'm talking about the fact that in the span of three hours, malus changed his opinion 180 degrees and said not a word to the individual who was being accused, even though said person had sworn personal allegiance to malus.
This has nothing to do with how I as the player feel.
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This has nothing to do with how I as the player feel.
Then why are you so mad?
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No, I'm talking about the fact that in the span of three hours, malus changed his opinion 180 degrees and said not a word to the individual who was being accused, even though said person had sworn personal allegiance to malus.
This has nothing to do with how I as the player feel.
Malus acted in a span of three hours, but this goes back at least 60 days. Sevastian didn't hear anything for the same reason that Alanna didn't hear anything, for the same reason that Fulco learned about it today. You don't survive in Luria by trusting very many people. Particularly not when all of them were implicated in some way or another.
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Then why are you so mad?
I as the player am upset because I made a mistake. But that is irrelevant to Sevastian's response.
The character is outraged because he sacrificed considerably for Malus, only to have malus turn around and betray him and break his own oath.
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You don't survive in Luria by trusting very many people.
So true.
This is an interesting discourse.
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Sevastian, a puppet to Malus and to Alanna, ends up betrayed by both.
Shoulda signed peace with D'Hara when you had the chance.
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Another case of fabricated evidence?
This should get (more) interesting!
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Sevastian, a puppet to Malus and to Alanna, ends up betrayed by both.
Shoulda signed peace with D'Hara when you had the chance.
I don't think Alanna is foolish enough to betray Sevastian, in fact the two got along rather well from the letters sent between them.
Lurians are known for one thing that I can think of, over all others: the Blood Debt.
Malus owes Sevastian big time now, and the acceptance of whatever letter Malus sent to Fulco has put Fulco on the list too. Should be interesting. Duels definitely coming. And yeah, I'm confident enough to say duels not a duel.
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Another case of fabricated evidence?
This should get (more) interesting!
:-X
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I don't think Alanna is foolish enough to betray Sevastian, in fact the two got along rather well from the letters sent between them.
Lurians are known for one thing that I can think of, over all others: the Blood Debt.
Malus owes Sevastian big time now, and the acceptance of whatever letter Malus sent to Fulco has put Fulco on the list too. Should be interesting. Duels definitely coming. And yeah, I'm confident enough to say duels not a duel.
Goddamnit. Kamron likes Sevastian. A lot. Then again, he's also sorta Fulco's champion. :(
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As Sevastian is a Monarch himself, there is no legal need for a champion.
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As Sevastian is a Monarch himself, there is no legal need for a champion.
Somehow I doubt that argument will stand. :P
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Lurians are known for one thing that I can think of, over all others: the Blood Debt.
Malus owes Sevastian big time now, and the acceptance of whatever letter Malus sent to Fulco has put Fulco on the list too. Should be interesting. Duels definitely coming. And yeah, I'm confident enough to say duels not a duel.
The Blood Debt is actually a fairly recent creation. Malus came up with it as a reason to get rid of some of his enemies.
It has definitely not been in place for that long as my character was there for a very long time.
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Somehow I doubt that argument will stand. :P
And if he refuses, then he admits fault and cowardice.
Either way, Sevastian wins.
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And if he refuses, then he admits fault and cowardice.
Either way, Sevastian wins.
Looks to me that, either way, Sevastian lost his realm.
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Not really a loss.
There are a few really amazing characters that Sevastian worked with, but if they are willing to go along with whatever mumbojumbo Malus is passing about, then it's not a loss at all.
The land still belongs to Solaria, not Luria Nova. And even if it's years away, it will be reclaimed.
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Sevastian, a puppet to Malus and to Alanna, ends up betrayed by both.
Alanna has not betrayed Sevastian; she was blindsided by this, too, and is still very angry with Malus for doing it.
In the end, though, she will betray him, simply because her fate is bound to Luria, and he now hates it. She won't blame him, and will quite sympathize, but it won't stop her from fighting for Luria with everything she has when he comes calling to collect his debt from Malus, and, by extension, from her.
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You keep taking this personally, and I can only remind you that this is a game so many times.
That is the problem with #lurias . If you want your character to betray someone you'll almost be forced to lie OoC. That is why whenever it happens it's as a result of, or results in, OoC fights. The IC/OoC separation is so thin, way too clanish-like.
Now, if you are not in the channel (or in the several more private ones) you have little chances in politics, except as a pawn.
The Blood Debt is actually a fairly recent creation. Malus came up with it as a reason to get rid of some of his enemies.
It has definitely not been in place for that long as my character was there for a very long time.
This is an entirely Solarian invention, not Lurian at all. And when Tybalt tried to duel people he was mostly laughed at. I really doubt Sevastian will meet a very different response.
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Alanna has not betrayed Sevastian; she was blindsided by this, too, and is still very angry with Malus for doing it.
In the end, though, she will betray him, simply because her fate is bound to Luria, and he now hates it. She won't blame him, and will quite sympathize, but it won't stop her from fighting for Luria with everything she has when he comes calling to collect his debt from Malus, and, by extension, from her.
Sevastian doesn't hate Luria now. He hates Malus. Huge difference. The debt to Sevastian isn't owed by all of Luria, just those individuals that permitted the situation to come to pass.
If Fulco were to relinquish the lands back to Sevastian, then we could carry on with the idea of a Lurian Empire. But I don't see Fulco playing pragmatic regarding this situation, and the whole thing will lead to interesting new twists in the story of Luria.
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This is an entirely Solarian invention, not Lurian at all. And when Tybalt tried to duel people he was mostly laughed at. I really doubt Sevastian will meet a very different response.
Sevastian isn't Tybalt. He can make things far, far worse than Tybalt could.
Malus or Fulco refusing the duel would be tantamount to admitting treachery and dishonour upon their houses. It's too public a matter to be refused without great shame.
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It's too public a matter to be refused without great shame.
Is that what you think? Huh.
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Is that what you think? Huh.
Huh, indeed.
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Just duel. Get it over with.
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Just duel. Get it over with.
That's what I'm saying!
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Luria: the Soap Opera of Battlemaster.
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Luria: the Soap Opera of Battlemaster.
+1
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Luria: the Soap Opera of Battlemaster.
Don't you mean... The Days of Our Lurias?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoyZs-WTQp8
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Duel? yea right.... you should know by now that Fulco doesn't believe in such thing. There only have been like 5 attempts before to lure him into a duel after someone lost his power...
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Don't you mean... The Days of Our Lurias?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoyZs-WTQp8
I am rather partial to The Young and the Lurian myself.
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Is that what you think? Huh.
Huh, indeed.
As if anyone in this game ever accepts to duel over anything they could lose.
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As if anyone in this game ever accepts to duel over anything they could lose.
Well, usually, at least one of them does have *something* to lose. It's just a little different when that something is an entire kingdom.
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As if anyone in this game ever accepts to duel over anything they could lose.
A few years back Atamara's best swordsmen gathered in Barad Lacrinth for duels to the death. Raziel2, Dead Angel WG, Renquest, and Gaihu? (Something with a G, he arrived a bit late I believe). Raziel beat DA, but didn't kill him and then promptly died fighting Renquest. It was all over pride and very high stakes. Everyone participating knew they had a chance of not walking away.
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A few years back Atamara's best swordsmen gathered in Barad Lacrinth for duels to the death. Raziel2, Dead Angel WG, Renquest, and Gaihu? (Something with a G, he arrived a bit late I believe). Raziel beat DA, but didn't kill him and then promptly died fighting Renquest. It was all over pride and very high stakes. Everyone participating knew they had a chance of not walking away.
Wasn't Dren Sceptre there too? Or am I thinking of something else?
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A few years back Atamara's best swordsmen gathered in Barad Lacrinth for duels to the death. Raziel2, Dead Angel WG, Renquest, and Gaihu? (Something with a G, he arrived a bit late I believe). Raziel beat DA, but didn't kill him and then promptly died fighting Renquest. It was all over pride and very high stakes. Everyone participating knew they had a chance of not walking away.
An elite tourny, sounds fun!
a great oportunity to place some good bets.
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Raziel2, Dead Angel WG, Renquest, and Gaihu? (Something with a G, he arrived a bit late I believe).
God, I am glad the days of those kinds of names are gone.
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Christ alive, this wasn't a merger, and as far as I know (and after reviewing Delvin's comments in the other thread, it wasn't) a bug exploit. Some very clever characters presented Malus with a set of facts that, when measured against what he already knew, pointed to an outcome that he found so abhorrent that he abandoned a realm named after himself. This was neither convenient nor easy for me as a player, but it is exactly what the character would have done.
It wasn't a Merger??? Really??? I mean I don't care one way or another but call it what it was.
Region Changes Allegiance (7 minutes ago)
message to Everyone on Dwilight
Tranquil has changed its allegiance to the realm of Luria Nova. The region used to belong to Solaria.
Duchy Changes Allegiance (just in)
message to Everyone on Dwilight
The Courts of Stone has changed its allegiance with all its regions to the realm of Luria Nova. The duchy used to belong to Solaria.
There is no more Solaria.
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Okay, now we can call it a realm merger, and exploiting a bug.
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An elite tourny, sounds fun!
a great oportunity to place some good bets.
This is the exact reason the Doubled Coin should have happened! But then all the other backers dropped out! Unless Lorgan is still game ;D
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This is the exact reason the Doubled Coin should have happened! But then all the other backers dropped out! Unless Lorgan is still game ;D
It's been founded, ask around. ;)
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It wasn't a Merger??? Really??? I mean I don't care one way or another but call it what it was.
Region Changes Allegiance (7 minutes ago)
message to Everyone on Dwilight
Tranquil has changed its allegiance to the realm of Luria Nova. The region used to belong to Solaria.
Duchy Changes Allegiance (just in)
message to Everyone on Dwilight
The Courts of Stone has changed its allegiance with all its regions to the realm of Luria Nova. The duchy used to belong to Solaria.
There is no more Solaria.
So I'm working in concert with the person who's furiously pissed off with me? I think you're conflating two separate events, and I don't much appreciate having my legal duchy realignment shackled to a merger.
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Wasn't Dren Sceptre there too? Or am I thinking of something else?
Back when his name was less... Nameish, I believe so.
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Well, usually, at least one of them does have *something* to lose. It's just a little different when that something is an entire kingdom.
What is the ratio of duels that are actually accepted?
Usually, you have a guy that has nothing to lose that challenges someone that has much to lose. Then, the first guy is scandalized that the guy who has much to lose refuses to accept his challenge...
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What is the ratio of duels that are actually accepted?
Usually, you have a guy that has nothing to lose that challenges someone that has much to lose. Then, the first guy is scandalized that the guy who has much to lose refuses to accept his challenge...
I can count the number of duels involving councilors that I've witnessed on one hand, and I think two of them are Lorgan's doing.
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Sevastian isn't Tybalt. He can make things far, far worse than Tybalt could.
I'd like to see what he can do.
Malus or Fulco refusing the duel would be tantamount to admitting treachery and dishonour upon their houses. It's too public a matter to be refused without great shame.
I remember Pianese, Capets, Vesperians, Tybalt, Jeffrey and others saying the exact same thing. And Sevastian laughing at some of them.
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I remember Pianese, Capets, Vesperians, Tybalt, Jeffrey and others saying the exact same thing. And Sevastian laughing at some of them.
This.
Honestly, duels don't really get fought unless both characters are on the same level, and both "players" are willing to risk it. I think duels would be much more effective as an RP tool if deaths were common. Such as with enforced mortality. As it is, characters are too valuable to simply lose to a toss of the dice. Not every player views things this way as there are quite a few that RP their characters without regard for their living. However, I'd say a vast majority care whether or not they can keep playing their favorite char.
Brom did the same thing as many of the above listed, but the difference was that he was bluffing the whole time, because I care too much about the character to put it up to chance if he dies from a simple duel. At least one for revenge. A duel for love or otherwise, I'd go forward with. I guess I've RP'ed it as being more pragmatic that revenge wasn't worth such a risk in Brom's point of view, but I'm not fully sure how I feel on the issue.
In general, duels are not what they were originally intended for as we as players recognized that other players don't want to lose their chars. This means we won't necessarily punish a char IC as much for refusing a duel simply because we might as well.
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I remember Pianese, Capets, Vesperians, Tybalt, Jeffrey and others saying the exact same thing. And Sevastian laughing at some of them.
Some of them had laughable causes to warrant their challenges. Not to mention, the majority of duels that Sevastian has seen fought were fought by people of vastly different levels of the hierarchy. With the exception of Duke Karibash v. Duke Thomas, afaik.
Sevastian isn't the nicest guy, but he definitely adheres to the hard line definition of a Noble. He has been since his birth.
My other character is quite the opposite.
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Not to mention, the majority of duels that Sevastian has seen fought were fought by people of vastly different levels of the hierarchy.
And this isn't?
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And this isn't?
How would it be?
Malus is a Duke. Sevastian is now just a Duke. Perhaps the duel against Fulco would be improper now that his crown has no country, but the duel against Malus would be completely in line with the hierarchy.
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Malus is a Duke. Sevastian is now just a Duke.
Didn't know that Sevastian still held a duchy.
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Didn't know that Sevastian still held a duchy.
Indeed he does, even if it is a craphole of a duchy.
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Indeed he does, even if it is a craphole of a duchy.
Anyways, duels tended not to be fought IRL over stuff like this. It was mostly a thing for knights trying to prove themselves by getting hotheaded about everything - rulers tended to just !@#$ eachother over ruthlessly.
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There is a bit of a personal betrayal involved between Malus and Sevastian. An Oath broken is a serious breach of honour in Sevastian's eyes.
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There is a bit of a personal betrayal involved between Malus and Sevastian. An Oath broken is a serious breach of honour in Sevastian's eyes.
Right, he's fully within his rights to demand a duel, but it's not exactly precedented for someone in Malus' situation to accept, IRL or ingame.
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Some of them had laughable causes to warrant their challenges.
Sevastian isn't the nicest guy, but he definitely adheres to the hard line definition of a Noble. He has been since his birth.
Ask any of those Sevastian laughed at and they will reply the very same thing.
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I imagine this is obvious to anyone who's reads Malus' past comments on duels, but it isn't going to happen. Not in a million years. People have very personal opinions about duels, but it's a feature of the game that I feel has been twisted by weird, anachronistic notions of romanticized nobility, like Aaron Burr dueling Alexander Hamilton or something.
"You shall retract your slander!" 'I refuse!' "Sabers at dawn, sir!"
No thanks. I created the idea of blood debts exactly because it seemed stupid for a duke/ruler/priest to go dueling knights, lords, and lower nobles. A man or woman of power doesn't, IMHO, whip out a sword and demand satisfaction. They leverage their resources to suffocate, kill, or drive off their enemies. Ain't that right, Brom/Ramiel/Norrel/Arundel/Finsternis? I think Malus even made that comment to Brom, when he came knocking for a duel.
"Pick up your sword!"
'But I have a thousand. I have an army.'
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I imagine this is obvious to anyone who's reads Malus' past comments on duels, but it isn't going to happen. Not in a million years. People have very personal opinions about duels, but it's a feature of the game that I feel has been twisted by weird, anachronistic notions of romanticized nobility, like Aaron Burr dueling Alexander Hamilton or something.
"You shall retract your slander!" 'I refuse!' "Sabers at dawn, sir!"
No thanks. I created the idea of blood debts exactly because it seemed stupid for a duke/ruler/priest to go dueling knights, lords, and lower nobles. A man or woman of power doesn't, IMHO, whip out a sword and demand satisfaction. They leverage their resources to suffocate, kill, or drive off their enemies. Ain't that right, Brom/Ramiel/Norrel/Arundel/Finsternis? I think Malus even made that comment to Brom, when he came knocking for a duel.
"Pick up your sword!"
'But I have a thousand. I have an army.'
Yes if your chaarcters feels the acuser is to low to be fought, pick a champion.
I believe a true lord shouldn't step away from any challange, unless the challange can be arrested and executed, or just banned.
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Yes if your chaarcters feels the acuser is to low to be fought, pick a champion.
I believe a true lord shouldn't step away from any challange, unless the challange can be arrested and executed, or just banned.
And here we have a great example of what I meant by people having very different and very personal opinions about duels. I don't feel that either one of us is right, but it does help to illustrate why some characters and families take them so seriously and others do not. :)
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And here we have a great example of what I meant by people having very different and very personal opinions about duels. I don't feel that either one of us is right, but it does help to illustrate why some characters and families take them so seriously and others do not. :)
Yes indeed, some of my characters won't accept duels, others would throw them selfs in pits of spikes and burning oil just to get a duel :P
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I imagine this is obvious to anyone who's reads Malus' past comments on duels, but it isn't going to happen. Not in a million years. People have very personal opinions about duels, but it's a feature of the game that I feel has been twisted by weird, anachronistic notions of romanticized nobility, like Aaron Burr dueling Alexander Hamilton or something.
"You shall retract your slander!" 'I refuse!' "Sabers at dawn, sir!"
No thanks. I created the idea of blood debts exactly because it seemed stupid for a duke/ruler/priest to go dueling knights, lords, and lower nobles. A man or woman of power doesn't, IMHO, whip out a sword and demand satisfaction. They leverage their resources to suffocate, kill, or drive off their enemies. Ain't that right, Brom/Ramiel/Norrel/Arundel/Finsternis? I think Malus even made that comment to Brom, when he came knocking for a duel.
"Pick up your sword!"
'But I have a thousand. I have an army.'
It is stupid for a person in power to duel when they can just leverage their resources instead.
Malus's comment, although not worded that way exactly, as Brom's request wasn't, but in general the concept is correct. However, Brom was essentially in a desperation swing. He didn't expect Malus to accept, but was hoping that he would be stupid and allow Brom to save face and essentially be restored back to power in Luria. In the meantime, he used the distraction of dueling and accusations to prepare his leave from Luria.
Same way he used the impending assault on the city of Giask to prepare his leave from Luria the first time.
What else would you expect from a Machiavellan pragmatist?
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In the meantime, he used the distraction of dueling and accusations to prepare his leave from Luria.
That was expertly done, by the way. Brom slipped out without anyone noticing, and clearly had a soft landing prepared.
What else would you expect from a Machiavellan pragmatist?
And this is why I love Brom from a distance as much as I hated him up close. 8)
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DEATH TO BIPEL!
Wooohoooo!
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DEATH TO BIPEL!
Wooohoooo!
It's about damned time! Dibs on his spine, if he has one.
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New national sport called "throw a Lurian". More news coming soon
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What else would you expect from a Machiavellan pragmatist?
What does a D'Haran royal have anything to do with him?
;)
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So D'Hara just offered peace terms. ;D
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So D'Hara just offered peace terms. ;D
Waitwaitwait—
Those were supposed to be actual peace terms??
Oh, dear. Alanna's got some explaining to do, then.
She's already booked Rynn and his Council as the opening act at her new Central Dwilight Comedy Club.
They were going to be such a popular political satire act, too...like the Capitol Steps of Dwilight... :'(
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Nobody includes the poor 'lil 'ole Mootgram anymore. :(
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Nobody includes the poor 'lil 'ole Mootgram anymore. :(
Malus does!
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Malus does!
That's why we're still friends.
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Waitwaitwait—
Those were supposed to be actual peace terms??
Oh, dear. Alanna's got some explaining to do, then.
She's already booked Rynn and his Council as the opening act at her new Central Dwilight Comedy Club.
They were going to be such a popular political satire act, too...like the Capitol Steps of Dwilight... :'(
I am really interested in what those terms are, probably see it in game soon, but can't wait.
Share the laughs! :P
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It was probably something like "D'Hara gains possession of Giask, and guaranteed food sales of at least 1000 bushels a week for 15/100".
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They aren't especially ludicrous. They're just the same terms that Rynn was pushing before, only this time without the support of Morek and from a clearly disadvantaged position, if the huge Novan army on the doorstep of a relatively undefended Shinnen is any indication. D'Hara and LV entered into an alliance of convenience, and one is trying to save the other by wading into a Lurian affair. That never works out. Luria's like the Afghanistan of Dwilight.
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btw how did all those lurian regions become part of Morek, for the sake of just creating a huge realm or what?
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btw how did all those lurian regions become part of Morek, for the sake of just creating a huge realm or what?
Someone was planning for big changes in Luria that weren't exactly aligned with the plans of the current ruling class, so they were banned and took their duchy with them.
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Someone was planning for big changes in Luria that weren't exactly aligned with the plans of the current ruling class, so they were banned and took their duchy with them.
But aren't those regions once claimed under the north devide treaty by pian en luries, which extends into luria nova?
Or is luria nova giving up those claims?
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Luria's like the Afghanistan of Dwilight.
HAAAA! I loved this.
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well, dhara's peace offer was just rejected, curious if the new offer from ln will be accepted by them. And there will come big changes to luria, just not yet...
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You mean:
1) Recognition of D'Hara's claims to Sallowcape
2) Agreeing to peace with Luria Vesperi as well
?
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The Vesperi thing is especially ridiculous. Luria will never accept others dictating how we handle Lurian affairs. Any peace terms that include LV are therefore received by LN as a joke.
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The Vesperi thing is especially ridiculous. Luria will never accept others dictating how we handle Lurian affairs. Any peace terms that include LV are therefore received by LN as a joke.
Regardless of how LN may view LV, D'Hara views it as an ally. D'Hara doesn't ditch allies. LV went to war because of D'Hara, it would be dishonorable to let them down.
Besides, we just took back Paisly, which had been occupying a good number of our forces. Our forces will now be able to return back East to deal with LN.
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Hey folks. Would anyone mind explaining to me what's the difference between the Lurian nations?
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Regardless of how LN may view LV, D'Hara views it as an ally. D'Hara doesn't ditch allies. LV went to war because of D'Hara, it would be dishonorable to let them down.
Maybe, but it'd be unthinkable to let bipel keep his crown.
Besides, we just took back Paisly, which had been occupying a good number of our forces. Our forces will now be able to return back East to deal with LN.
I look forward to it. :)
Hey folks. Would anyone mind explaining to me what's the difference between the Lurian nations?
Sorry if it's a little chaotic:
LV was created by LN, Bipel put on the throne by Fulco and adapted into the Empire but then fell out of the rest of the Empire's good graces by blocking any progress and not contributing in anything that we /did/ decide. And then there was some stuff with D'Hara and the taking in of people exiled from Luria, a poorly communicated plan to replace LV with the recently fallen Pian en Luries (due to the grand starvation and a sabotaging lord of their only region). They got kicked out of the Empire but remained in the federation on the premise that if they kicked out Bipel and a few other undesirables, they could return. Finally LV allied with D'Hara and broke the federation saying they did not wish war, but sending troops to loot our lands anyway. And that brings us to the the rest of Luria (now only Luria Nova) descending on LV.
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I understand LN's position on this quite clearly.
I was just stating D'Hara's.
Unless Morek pulls its weigh to pressure either side to accept any given conditions, I don't see peace being achieved. Nor any significant progress being made by neither LN or D'Hara/LV.
Only Aurvandil sighing with relief that all three are fighting each other instead of fighting them.
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Pretty much, Coldchest didn't agree with the empire and rather than break ties amicably, chose to stall until you all got pissed off enough to go to war, took in those you deemed undesirable, and kept fighting your will. That either makes him a ballsy hero or an utter dumbass, all depending on the context of said decisions he failed to agree with and uphold.
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That either makes him a ballsy hero or an utter dumbass, all depending on the context of said decisions he failed to agree with and uphold.
He's obstructing the One Holy Righteous Cause Of All Dwilight Against The Unbearably Evil and Very Bad Nobles of Aurvandil. Thus he's an utter dumbass, not a ballsy hero.
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>.>
Hrmm. Damn it Coldchest! He took my City (still pissed about that! Completely ruined my plans to introduce my religion in the first conquered city after the Daimon invasion, I didn't post a good 30 pages of RP, gather the support of those in power, and work to gain the trust of the people just to have a useless, crazy, self-absorbed idiot take the Lordship out from under me :P Robb Coldchest's a real piece of work, hahaha, as Bipel said to me, he's a bit "special" in the head) in Riombara and now he stalls the effort against Aurvandil in Dwilight. Maybe I should have a talk with him...
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Let's put it this way, Ehndras:
His realm stocked the out-of-the-way pointless regions with militia, and left the capital-donut townsland region empty.
I leave it to you to decide whether this points to "ballsy" or "dumbass".
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I understand LN's position on this quite clearly.
I was just stating D'Hara's.
Unless Morek pulls its weigh to pressure either side to accept any given conditions, I don't see peace being achieved. Nor any significant progress being made by neither LN or D'Hara/LV.
Only Aurvandil sighing with relief that all three are fighting each other instead of fighting them.
If Morek pulls its weight on the issue that won't solve anything other than piss off Luria. Solari described Luria perfectly. THey don't take well to outside interference in "Lurian" affairs. If someone interferes, they'll just focus on that person and deal with the Lurian affairs later. Frankly, it doesn't matter what D'Hara wants in a treaty if they try and include Lurian realms. The Lurian realms that misbehave will be dealt with after D'Hara is wrapped up regardless.
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Afghanistan is a very applicable political lateral to Luria. Pretty much ends there. A saying I once heard: "Me against my brother. My brother and I against our family. My family against my tribe. My tribe against my nation. My nation against the world."
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There is someone not of the Luria Novan banner who is still Lurian, in a lot of fashions. I just wonder if Brom could be bothered with it...
>.>
<.<
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If Morek pulls its weight on the issue that won't solve anything other than piss off Luria.
if morek would actually involve its self in the war, LN would be crushed, a 3 front war? no empire could attest to that for very long.
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If Morek pulls its weight on the issue that won't solve anything other than piss off Luria. Solari described Luria perfectly. THey don't take well to outside interference in "Lurian" affairs. If someone interferes, they'll just focus on that person and deal with the Lurian affairs later. Frankly, it doesn't matter what D'Hara wants in a treaty if they try and include Lurian realms. The Lurian realms that misbehave will be dealt with after D'Hara is wrapped up regardless.
Never said the Luria Nova would like it. But as for as "the Lurias" go, I'm not sure Luria Vesperi would mind all that much. Northern Luria also joined Morek, so I'm thinking they might not mind outside interference all that much either, considering they joined an outside realm.
if morek would actually involve its self in the war, LN would be crushed, a 3 front war? no empire could attest to that for very long.
Indeed. Morek's much closer to the Lurias than to Aurvandil. And with the new defection, closer than ever. Morek wants a region close to Aurvandil to be able to fight there, but the reality is that distance from the capital would likely make it revolt in a day. As such, Morek's best chances of getting at Aurvandil would be to pacify Luria Nova, so that Luria Vesperi and D'Hara can do something about the Western war.
Luria Nova is a de facto ally of Aurvandil, right now. Both are dedicated to fighting the 'moot.
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...Northern Luria also joined Morek...
Luria Nova is a de facto ally of Aurvandil, right now...
Re: the first line. Damn right Northern Luria!
Re: the second line. This is not the first time I have seen that thought. It's been expressed in game several times.
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LN has no desire to help Aurvandil. We'd be perfectly happy to help you destroy them.
There is just one thing standing in our way, and that's you, D'Hara. If you would give us peace, we'd clean up LV quite quickly, then join in the war against Aurvandil.
So, no, LN is not the de-facto ally of Aurvandil right now. It's D'Hara, who is doing everything they can to prevent LN from joining the war on the side of the north.
Basically, Chénier, you really need to look at it this way:
Which is more important to you: keeping LV alive—a realm that's only been your ally for a short time, that you can't actually keep alive anyway—or seeing Aurvandil destroyed?
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The way I've had it explained to me Anaris, is that because Luria is the aggressor against Dhara, it is the one responsible for the lack of definitive action against Aurvandil. Not to mention 'responsible' for multiple thousands of CS being unable to even show up down South.
I'm presuming that something along those lines is what half the allegations against Sevastian are about.
Regardless, I'm not fond of that line of thought, and tend to agree with you. Dhara is being obstinate. ;)
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The way I've had it explained to me Anaris, is that because Luria is the aggressor against Dhara, it is the one responsible for the lack of definitive action against Aurvandil. Not to mention 'responsible' for multiple thousands of CS being unable to even show up down South.
I'm presuming that something along those lines is what half the allegations against Sevastian are about.
Regardless, I'm not fond of that line of thought, and tend to agree with you. Dhara is being obstinate. ;)
Personally, I still don't know what the allegations against Sevastian are about. (The original ones. The ones that led to his banishment are much more obvious.)
The point is, though, Luria has been willing to make peace with D'Hara for some time now. It's D'Hara that's refusing, because apparently their people have "romanticized" Luria Vesperi as some kind of knights in shining armour...and therefore, they're worth blocking war with Aurvandil over.
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Personally, I still don't know what the allegations against Sevastian are about. (The original ones. The ones that led to his banishment are much more obvious.)
The point is, though, Luria has been willing to make peace with D'Hara for some time now. It's D'Hara that's refusing, because apparently their people have "romanticized" Luria Vesperi as some kind of knights in shining armour...and therefore, they're worth blocking war with Aurvandil over.
Nor do I. And the banishment issue isn't an issue. Sevastian thinks Fulco is handicapped by his paranoia and greed, just like Bipel. Having said it too many times to too many people, it was only a matter of time before this happened. Now I get to play a more dynamic and long-term game. Fun all around!
Vesperi as knights in shining armour? Vesperi as knights?! Preposterous, I say. Silly D'Haran scum.
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Personally, I still don't know what the allegations against Sevastian are about. (The original ones. The ones that led to his banishment are much more obvious.)
The point is, though, Luria has been willing to make peace with D'Hara for some time now. It's D'Hara that's refusing, because apparently their people have "romanticized" Luria Vesperi as some kind of knights in shining armour...and therefore, they're worth blocking war with Aurvandil over.
It's much simpler than that.
D'Hara wants to keep a balance of powers. Without LV, D'Hara is all alone in that part of the world.
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It's much simpler than that.
D'Hara wants to keep a balance of powers. Without LV, D'Hara is all alone in that part of the world.
I don't think D'Hara realizes just how useless LV is. With LV, D'Hara is still all alone.
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I don't think D'Hara realizes just how useless LV is. With LV, D'Hara is still all alone.
That has yet to be demonstrated. LV seems to be reasonably functional thus far.
A crushing defeat of LV or two might convince D'Hara otherwise.
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That has yet to be demonstrated. LV seems to be reasonably functional thus far.
A crushing defeat of LV or two might convince D'Hara otherwise.
I think that should be easily furnished before the week is out.
(Unless American Thanksgiving wrecks our movement too badly, I suppose.)
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You guys are having a holiday? Damn it!
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I think that should be easily furnished before the week is out.
(Unless American Thanksgiving wrecks our movement too badly, I suppose.)
Darn yankees!
swipe them off the map, please!
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I think that should be easily furnished before the week is out.
SHUT UP, ANARIS. It's under-promise and over-deliver. You've got it backwards. ;D
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It's much simpler than that.
D'Hara wants to keep a balance of powers. Without LV, D'Hara is all alone in that part of the world.
Exactly, since LN already offered LV peace once we see it as them wanting to get one realm out of the war so they beat whoever stays then afterwards they kill the remaining realm. Maybe that wouldn't happen but do you really think we are going to trust the aggressive plotting lurians of LN, especially when we have evidence against them?
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Which is more important to you: keeping LV alive—a realm that's only been your ally for a short time, that you can't actually keep alive anyway—or seeing Aurvandil destroyed?
The last time we trusted LN to attack Aurvandil, they ended up attacking D'Hara instead. That, given the distance involved, gives D'Hara exactly zero confidence that LN surviving would be of any help whatsoever to the war with Aurvandil.
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The last time we trusted LN to attack Aurvandil, they ended up attacking D'Hara instead. That, given the distance involved, gives D'Hara exactly zero confidence that LN surviving would be of any help whatsoever to the war with Aurvandil.
Well surviving and being allowed to take out LV are two separate things, but otherwise that is true.
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The last time we trusted LN to attack Aurvandil, they ended up attacking D'Hara instead. That, given the distance involved, gives D'Hara exactly zero confidence that LN surviving would be of any help whatsoever to the war with Aurvandil.
Erm...
By what convolution of logic do you think that LV can take out LN?
For that matter, what makes you think that even D'Hara and LV combined are any serious threat to LN's survival?
If you had Morek on your side, then yeah, there might be a chance. But they've already said that if you keep insisting on tying yourselves to LV, they're washing their hands of you.
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The last time we trusted LN to attack Aurvandil, they ended up attacking D'Hara instead. That, given the distance involved, gives D'Hara exactly zero confidence that LN surviving would be of any help whatsoever to the war with Aurvandil.
We all know the details of this by now, and everyone has their IC reasons for perpetuating the war, but let's be clear about WHY Luria suddenly went from war with Aurvandil to war with D'Hara. D'Hara seriously entertained the notion of either coming to the aid of Fissoa in its war with LN or allowing Aurvandil to pass through so THEY could come to the aid of Fissoa, solely in a pragmatic attempt to deal with a potential threat before it had emerged. That is why Luria went to war with D'Hara. They were the proximate threat.
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We all know the details of this by now, and everyone has their IC reasons for perpetuating the war, but let's be clear about WHY Luria suddenly went from war with Aurvandil to war with D'Hara. D'Hara seriously entertained the notion of either coming to the aid of Fissoa in its war with LN or allowing Aurvandil to pass through so THEY could come to the aid of Fissoa, solely in a pragmatic attempt to deal with a potential threat before it had emerged. That is why Luria went to war with D'Hara. They were the proximate threat.
Honestly, I have never heard any of these suggestions before as a member of D'hara but I had little political power at the time to be informed of plans though too. The thing that gets me is you are buddy buddy with Fissoa but since we considered helping an ally, we are the bad guys, not the ally.
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Honestly, I have never heard any of these suggestions before as a member of D'hara but I had little political power at the time to be informed of plans though too. The thing that gets me is you are buddy buddy with Fissoa but since we considered helping an ally, we are the bad guys, not the ally.
The alliance with Fissoa came after Skyndarbau was ousted. Luria mostly goes to war over individuals, not realms. The problem with Aurvandil is Mendicant, and with LV it's Bipel (and a few others), for example.
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D'hara damn near allied with Aurvandil. They brought the war on themselves. I know, I was there and trying to pish Rynn to forsake the moot and ally with Aurvandil :p Which I would have then publically denounced and laughed maniacly.
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Takeover Initiated (just in)
message to all nobles of Luria Nova
Sha'shanti el Gato has initiated a takeover in Shinnen Purlieus. The region currently belongs to Luria Vesperi.
Welp.
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LN has no desire to help Aurvandil. We'd be perfectly happy to help you destroy them.
There is just one thing standing in our way, and that's you, D'Hara. If you would give us peace, we'd clean up LV quite quickly, then join in the war against Aurvandil.
So, no, LN is not the de-facto ally of Aurvandil right now. It's D'Hara, who is doing everything they can to prevent LN from joining the war on the side of the north.
Right. Because D'Hara was totally the one to declare war on you, and because this war totally happened before Aurvandil attacked.
For sure, it's totally D'Hara's fault.
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Personally, I still don't know what the allegations against Sevastian are about. (The original ones. The ones that led to his banishment are much more obvious.)
The point is, though, Luria has been willing to make peace with D'Hara for some time now. It's D'Hara that's refusing, because apparently their people have "romanticized" Luria Vesperi as some kind of knights in shining armour...and therefore, they're worth blocking war with Aurvandil over.
LV is a lever against LN. We expect LN to backstab us again in the future, LV is a buffer against this. Rynn may romanticize them, but for most D'Harans, it can be pretty much summed up to this imo.
Because if LN gets peace with D'Hara and strikes at LV, it's still not fighting Aurvandil anyways.
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Right. Because D'Hara was totally the one to declare war on you, and because this war totally happened before Aurvandil attacked.
Never tried to claim this. All I'm claiming is that right now, D'Hara is the one holding things up.
LV is a lever against LN. We expect LN to backstab us again in the future, LV is a buffer against this. Rynn may romanticize them, but for most D'Harans, it can be pretty much summed up to this imo.
Because if LN gets peace with D'Hara and strikes at LV, it's still not fighting Aurvandil anyways.
Erm...I really, really don't know what you expect LV to do against LN. Even if LV and LN were the same size, great muppety Odin those guys are incompetent!
And, as I'm sure you've already seen, the takeovers have started. LV will not last that much longer.
I'm curious—do you know whether D'Hara will fold, once LV has been totally destroyed, and accept peace in order to destroy Aurvandil? Or will you insist upon revenge, despite the facts that it will be completely impossible for you to destroy Luria Nova, and that it will prevent the destruction of Aurvandil, the single greatest threat on Dwilight to...well, to everyone who's not Aurvandil. (Or, possibly, Glaumring. Not sure about that one.)
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Glaumring is, in fact, the single greatest threat to Dwilight.
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I'm curious—do you know whether D'Hara will fold, once LV has been totally destroyed, and accept peace in order to destroy Aurvandil? Or will you insist upon revenge, despite the facts that it will be completely impossible for you to destroy Luria Nova, and that it will prevent the destruction of Aurvandil, the single greatest threat on Dwilight to...well, to everyone who's not Aurvandil. (Or, possibly, Glaumring. Not sure about that one.)
D'Harans tend to be pragmatic. We are not the types to sacrifice ourselves for people that no longer exist.
I seriously doubt Rynn would make any new demands if LV falls. If he does, he'll be pressured internally to backtrack.
As for what we expect of LV... at the very least, they are meat shields, should they truly be as incompetant as you claim. Any attack on them is an attack that isn't on us. Furthermore, them existing means all of these regions aren't fueling LN's armies. So military performances aside, it is in D'Hara's best interests to try to preserve LV if it can at all be done.
Fact is, despite how nice we tried to play with Aurvandil, we find Mendicant to be an arrogant prick and we really can't stand them. Our hatred of Luria Nova can be put on the backburner for now, Aurvandil being the more serious threat.
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As for what we expect of LV... at the very least, they are meat shields, should they truly be as incompetant as you claim. Any attack on them is an attack that isn't on us. Furthermore, them existing means all of these regions aren't fueling LN's armies. So military performances aside, it is in D'Hara's best interests to try to preserve LV if it can at all be done.
If you're really all that pragmatic, then I'm really having a hard time seeing what the point is of your continuing to hold out.
At this point, there are basically 2 possibilities:
1) D'Hara makes peace, Luria destroys LV, we go kill Aurvandil
2) Luria destroys LV, D'Hara makes peace so we can go kill Aurvandil
So why do you insist upon delaying the inevitable?
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We all know the details of this by now, and everyone has their IC reasons for perpetuating the war, but let's be clear about WHY Luria suddenly went from war with Aurvandil to war with D'Hara. D'Hara seriously entertained the notion of either coming to the aid of Fissoa in its war with LN or allowing Aurvandil to pass through so THEY could come to the aid of Fissoa, solely in a pragmatic attempt to deal with a potential threat before it had emerged. That is why Luria went to war with D'Hara. They were the proximate threat.
This may be a true, however from an IG D'Haran perspective Luria's actions seemed little more than betrayal. While I do not doubt that some D'Haran Lords conspired as you mentioned in the past, a lot had changed in D'Hara since then. The vast majority of nobles, and indeed a large number of the House of Lords were entirely unaware of these past discussions and in fact the House had decided to pursue a policy of reconciliation with Luria, championed by many of the younger Lords. So what was seen (understandably) in Luria as eliminating scheming enemies, was seen by the vast majority of D'Harans as an unprovoked betrayal made at the very time we were trying our best to strengthen relations, ostensibly based on some discussion that happened in the distant past and most of us had never seen. It also vindicated the warnings of the older D'Haran Lords that Luria could never be trusted.
I'm not saying either side was right or wrong, however it should be obvious why D'Hara views LN's "make peace and we'll help with offer" with suspicion and sees it as as little more than an attempt to divert our attention while they deal with LV, in order to more easily destroy us further down the line.
Incidentally, Constantine is in fact in favor of ditching LV to get at Aurvandil but he's not your average D'Haran.
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If you're really all that pragmatic, then I'm really having a hard time seeing what the point is of your continuing to hold out.
At this point, there are basically 2 possibilities:
1) D'Hara makes peace, Luria destroys LV, we go kill Aurvandil
2) Luria destroys LV, D'Hara makes peace so we can go kill Aurvandil
So why do you insist upon delaying the inevitable?
Because LN has yet to convince us that LV dying is inevitable.
You say LV's military is pathetic... we tend to view yours the same way. We got struck in our time of greatest weakness, and we still held out. Our egos are pretty inflated right now (perhaps a bit too much so). Still, D'Hara is D'Hara. If you can prove LV is a liability, or utterly destroy them, D'Hara will drop the matter.
One way or another, we want Aurvandil taken out, but we are also thinking of the post-Aurvandil context. Either LV holds out, and we keep an ally against the realm who has been plotting against us for over four years. Or LV falls, and odds are at least a few of these lurians come to join us and or Fissoa. In any case, D'Hara wins. If D'Hara bails out on LV, our reputation will suffer, and odds are LV nobles will feel betrayed and will therefore be much more likely to re-assimilate into LN.
Because we do believe it's just a matter of time before LN backstabs us again. 'cause sure, D'Hara might have talked a bit about attacking LN... but seriously, the Lurias have been talking about doing the same for over four years. It really didn't take much for the Lurias to break their word. Nobody trusts them, and so LN's word is only so good as our capacity to make sure they respect it.
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If you're really all that pragmatic, then I'm really having a hard time seeing what the point is of your continuing to hold out.
At this point, there are basically 2 possibilities:
1) D'Hara makes peace, Luria destroys LV, we go kill Aurvandil
2) Luria destroys LV, D'Hara makes peace so we can go kill Aurvandil
So why do you insist upon delaying the inevitable?
why do you want to make war with Aurvandil? I see little reason to jump on the band wagon with the rest of the continent when you could just lick your wounds while everyone else loses manpower
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I don't intend to lick any wounds. And why? Because Mendicant pissed us off first and foremost and then probably some other reasons. My character is basically an attack dog so I don't bother with things like reasons too much.
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His realm stocked the out-of-the-way pointless regions with militia, and left the capital-donut townsland region empty.
We were even the defenders in the first battle in Shinnen Purlieus. They had no walls either.
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Glaumring is, in fact, the single greatest threat to Dwilight.
http://youtu.be/_sarYH0z948 8)
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why do you want to make war with Aurvandil? I see little reason to jump on the band wagon with the rest of the continent when you could just lick your wounds while everyone else loses manpower
Stand in Aurvandil. Take a look east. Who do you see there past Fissoa? You know, the next people you'd invade once you finished with them, as soon as you turned your sights in that general direction?
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why do you want to make war with Aurvandil? I see little reason to jump on the band wagon with the rest of the continent when you could just lick your wounds while everyone else loses manpower
Because Mendicant invested a lot of time and energy in exploring how to attack Giask by sea, at the behest of Skyndarbau. Nobody in Luria likes Skyndarbau, because be committed the cardinal sin: involving non-Lurians.
People either forget or don't realize that Luria was isolated from the rast of Dwilight for literally years in real time. It's another culture entirely. That attitude has embedded itself in the players as well, such that successive characters from the same families adopt the same feud-driven, vengeful, and long-of-memory culture. It's probably not healthy, but it's home. ;)
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Scheming against the Lurias is trendy these days.
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Let me get this straight: the Moot and the SA (I know, not a crusade, but whatever) go to war against Aurvandil. Luria was asked to help, but instead it declared war on D'Hara (a Moot realm). Not a move that really warms up the trust issues.
Now LN claims to want peace so that it can go help in the war against Aurvandil, and claims that D'Hara is the one that's at fault - when the whole mess could have been avoided had LN just supported the war against Aurvandil in the first place. And LN expects the Moot and SA to somehow trust them this time, despite the fact that it was LN who started the war anyway?
:|
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Let me get this straight: the Moot and the SA (I know, not a crusade, but whatever) go to war against Aurvandil. Luria was asked to help, but instead it declared war on D'Hara (a Moot realm). Not a move that really warms up the trust issues.
Now LN claims to want peace so that it can go help in the war against Aurvandil, and claims that D'Hara is the one that's at fault - when the whole mess could have been avoided had LN just supported the war against Aurvandil in the first place. And LN expects the Moot and SA to somehow trust them this time, despite the fact that it was LN who started the war anyway?
:|
No. I can see how that would make sense if one ignores the fact that the Moot was weighing if and how it could intervene against Luria, potentially by buddying up to Aurvandil, before war between Barca and Aurvandil started. There's also the small matter of Rynn basically flipping a coin between an alliance with LV or Aurvandil. Either there's some serious propagandizing going on here, or Moot rank and file were (impressively) kept in the dark.
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No. I can see how that would make sense if one ignores the fact that the Moot was weighing if and how it could intervene against Luria, potentially by buddying up to Aurvandil, before war between Barca and Aurvandil started. There's also the small matter of Rynn basically flipping a coin between an alliance with LV or Aurvandil. Either there's some serious propagandizing going on here, or Moot rank and file were (impressively) kept in the dark.
Because remember, the Lurias scheming against D'Hara for over 4 years is fine, D'Hara considering some payback for a few weeks is atrocious.
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Because remember, the Lurias scheming against D'Hara for over 4 years is fine, D'Hara considering some payback for a few weeks is atrocious.
lol I love !@#$ like this coming out of your own mouth...
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lol I love !@#$ like this coming out of your own mouth...
As opposed to your mouth, which is practically a sewage pipe? Yeah, I love it too.
And yeah, as far as I know, D'hara and GDoF (it exists!) were Luria's favorite sparring partners when Luria took a break from sparring each other.
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The shifty opportunist , the traitor and the stooge. What other characters will come out to greet me?
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As opposed to your mouth, which is practically a sewage pipe? Yeah, I love it too.
And yeah, as far as I know, D'hara and GDoF (it exists!) were Luria's favorite sparring partners when Luria took a break from sparring each other.
D'Hara was never actually attacked before, though it came close on a few occasions. The threat has been looming over our heads since day 1, however.
Fissoa, on the other hand, got ganked plenty of times. However, it must be said that they initiated most if not all of these wars, thinking they could pull it off while being way over their heads.
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Let me get this straight: the Moot and the SA (I know, not a crusade, but whatever) go to war against Aurvandil. Luria was asked to help, but instead it declared war on D'Hara (a Moot realm). Not a move that really warms up the trust issues.
Now LN claims to want peace so that it can go help in the war against Aurvandil, and claims that D'Hara is the one that's at fault - when the whole mess could have been avoided had LN just supported the war against Aurvandil in the first place. And LN expects the Moot and SA to somehow trust them this time, despite the fact that it was LN who started the war anyway?
:|
It's more complicated than that.
First off, Luria did declare war on Aurvandil. However, due to...a series of complicated internal problems (which I can go into if you really want me to...), it was no longer politically possible to continue the war against Aurvandil. There was another faction within Luria that desired war against D'Hara for particular purposes. The rest of Luria was persuaded to go along with that because it was, at the time, the only way to keep Luria together. (Actually, to some extent, it has continued to be so.) It's not, you must understand, specifically the war against D'Hara that serves this purpose, but a war against outsiders generally.
As I pointed out to Lanyon, Luria Nova truly believes that if we let Aurvandil devour the west, they will turn their faces east and be the stronger for their meal.
Luria Nova has every intention of fighting Aurvandil. We have all along. The only question has been whether it would be before D'Hara was crushed or after. If D'Hara will let go of their foolish attachment to Luria Vesperi and agree to stop our war for the time being, then we can all get about destroying the threat to all of us.
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Is it weird that the biggest reason i want us to win besides wanting my realm to survive is just to hear the things y'all say when we win/stalemate?
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Luria Nova has every intention of fighting Aurvandil. We have all along. The only question has been whether it would be before D'Hara was crushed or after. If D'Hara will let go of their foolish attachment to Luria Vesperi and agree to stop our war for the time being, then we can all get about destroying the threat to all of us.
Then kill LV so we can get this over with, already! I do not believe D'Hara will ditch LV until LV is proven beyond reasonable doubt to be a liability, either militarily or diplomatically, which means you'll either have to annex their capital or beat them so bad that the realm crumbles internally and that D'Hara no longer recognizes the people in charge anymore.
None of this prevents you from declaring war on Aurvandil right now, however.
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Then kill LV so we can get this over with, already! I do not believe D'Hara will ditch LV until LV is proven beyond reasonable doubt to be a liability, either militarily or diplomatically, which means you'll either have to annex their capital or beat them so bad that the realm crumbles internally and that D'Hara no longer recognizes the people in charge anymore.
We're moving as fast as I think can be reasonably expected. It's not like we can kill Aurvandil over the course of a few hours, after all ;D
None of this prevents you from declaring war on Aurvandil right now, however.
And doing what? Fighting a 3-front war, with one of the fronts being a week's travel or more away?
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Stuff
You have argued this already OOC, and that's fine but for the umpteenth time, we have 0 reason to believe IC. Every action taken by LN suggests they are not against Aurvandil, and only want peace with D'hara to destroy LV, so that it's easier to destroy D'hara. Try and tell me one in game thing that suggests otherwise that has been shared with D'hara. Maybe you can think of one but I know I can't.
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You have argued this already OOC, and that's fine but for the umpteenth time, we have 0 reason to believe IC.
Ah!
This, I can understand.
I guess we'll just have to see what happens when LV dies.
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And doing what? Fighting a 3-front war, with one of the fronts being a week's travel or more away?
Nah. Just scare their peasants !@#$less with yet another war declaration. Aurvandil's got greater threats on its hands than to be able to send anything at you anyways. Could help convince a few people that LN truly does want to fight Aurvandil down the road, too.
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Why are all of these discussions and attempts at persuasion and politics not being done IC?
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Why are all of these discussions and attempts at persuasion and politics not being done IC?
Because both camps are too narrow-minded to consider anything from a perspective other than their own. ;)
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Because both camps are too narrow-minded to consider anything from a perspective other than their own. ;)
And you're trying to overcome that OOC why?
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And you're trying to overcome that OOC why?
I'm just doing OOC commenting. It's nice to know, as a player, what's going on in other parts of the game worlds.
I'm not really trying to overcome anything: I stated D'Hara's position, and how unlikely it was for that position to change. Any serious scheming would NOT be done on this public forum where everyone can see... This is just general interests talks.
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I'm just doing OOC commenting. It's nice to know, as a player, what's going on in other parts of the game worlds.
I'm not really trying to overcome anything: I stated D'Hara's position, and how unlikely it was for that position to change. Any serious scheming would NOT be done on this public forum where everyone can see... This is just general interests talks.
Yeah I dunno. The line between informing and convincing is blurred in the best of circumstances, this thread being far from those.
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Yeah I dunno. The line between informing and convincing is blurred in the best of circumstances, this thread being far from those.
What is with people thinking just because something is debated OOC it will effect everything in game? My character has the same opinion as before, though it wasn't really going to be affected by this at all anyways. Maybe the complainers can't separate OOC from IC but those of us debating can.
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Maybe the complainers can't separate OOC from IC but those of us debating can.
Considering how often people debate things OOC and then change their minds IC... nope, you're wrong?
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Or how after a span of time OOC and IC are mixed and mashed and the exact context or where it came from totally forgotten.
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I wanna tv show(soap opera) thats set in medieval era with Chenier,Mendicant,Allison,Glaumring and the rest of "big dogs" in it. I would watch it all the time...
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Considering how often people debate things OOC and then change their minds IC... nope, you're wrong?
Or how after a span of time OOC and IC are mixed and mashed and the exact context or where it came from totally forgotten.
Can either of you give evidence/examples of this?
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Can either of you give evidence/examples of this?
I don't want to accuse people of violating the social contract so no.
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Or how after a span of time OOC and IC are mixed and mashed and the exact context or where it came from totally forgotten.
That's rich. Like the time you took something dustole said IC?
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I don't want to accuse people of violating the social contract so no.
I don't mean to be rude but just because you think some people are violating the SC but you don't want to accuse them, I will not debating stuff and talking about it OOC. If everyone is doing it then there shouldn't be boards to discuss this stuff so it can't happen and if its only a few, make the accusations or deal with it.
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I don't see the problem here. It's not like we're going to destroy LV because Chenier told us to do so on the forum. There's a million IC reasons to destroy LV and only about a dozen of those involve D'Hara.
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I wanna tv show(soap opera) thats set in medieval era with Chenier,Mendicant,Allison,Glaumring and the rest of "big dogs" in it. I would watch it all the time...
...have you seen Game of Thrones?
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...have you seen Game of Thrones?
Yea but this would be more interesting, having all of them in one room arguing about stuff each episode and plotting evil plans and every episode different person gets stabbed in the back.
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That's rich. Like the time you took something dustole said IC?
The difference is I did not deny my wrong doing. And made extra effort to never do it again.
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Yea but this would be more interesting, having all of them in one room arguing about stuff each episode and plotting evil plans and every episode different person gets stabbed in the back.
That's pretty much Game of Thrones....with the exception that they don't all stand in the same room at once. They argue in more pseudo methods which is pretty realistic. What's the fun of direct arguments when you can argue about something unrelated and still be fighting the person?
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Battlemaster: the closest thing to arguing/ backstabbing / lying / killing/ pillaging game of thrones style.
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I can understand it said IC as propaganda as much as wanted, but the fact the players involved believe it seriously surprises me. The Lurias attacked D'Hara because it was a good opportunity, and because they had more faith in their ability to overcome the desert. The fact that D'Hara considered attacking the Lurias before was just a convenient excuse, for the Lurias have been planning to attack D'Hara since forever. It was just a matter of time, if not before the war with Aurvandil then after.
If Lord Luriant claims the D'Harans are traitorous scumbags for considering attacking them my character will nod and fully agree. If Player Luriani says the same I'd ask him then what do the Lurias deserve for have been considering the same thing since the very moment I joined the game.
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Hahahahahaha, Luria makes me 'lol'.
So silly.
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I have to say that things are looking bad for Luria Vesperi. Despite of the fact that my character is completely neutral in the matter, I really hope, as a player, that the nobles of Vesperi can make a comeback..
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Can't say I hope the same thing. :)
LV is kind of a nuisance in wait of bigger fights. Be they against Morek or Aurvandil.
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Sweet, Malus has a new region. 8)
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Sweet, Malus has a new region. 8)
SP joined Sun Hall? Good times mate.
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SP joined Sun Hall? Good times mate.
I'm not really sure why. There are a couple of factors that the code takes into account. I don't think it was geography this time. Alas, I also have about zero say in who the appointee is. Not that it matters. The likely lord/lady will just as surely infuriate the Vesperi as anyone that Malus would have picked.
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I imagine whoever gets it will be enough to cause some uproar. After all, it's a desirable doughnut.
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I'm not really sure why. There are a couple of factors that the code takes into account. I don't think it was geography this time. Alas, I also have about zero say in who the appointee is. Not that it matters. The likely lord/lady will just as surely infuriate the Vesperi as anyone that Malus would have picked.
I imagine whoever gets it will be enough to cause some uproar. After all, it's a desirable doughnut.
I think you guys exaggerated here; Alice was a great candidate, but I don't think uproars were had.
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I think you guys exaggerated here; Alice was a great candidate, but I don't think uproars were had.
Well, that turned out differently than I thought it would.
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Well, that turned out differently than I thought it would.
HAHA. JOKE'S ON YOU, QUEEN! ;)
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HAHA. JOKE'S ON YOU, QUEEN! ;)
So...why is being queen a bad thing?
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So...why is being queen a bad thing?
SWOOSH
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So...why is being queen a bad thing?
Because it's Luria
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Wow. I take my eyes off Luria for a second, and next thing I know Alanna resides in Askileon and an Arundel warms the throne. Hot damn.
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Because it's Luria
Might as well paint a target on your back.
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Yes, but she does have Alanna giving her pointers on how to dance in an arrow storm.
(...I can just picture Alice dancing madly to avoid all the arrows, while Alanna sits off to the side, out of the line of fire, sipping tea and calling out advice...)
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Might as well paint a target on your back.
Precisely. Please make it alternating black and yellow in order to increase visibility from a distance. Kthx. :D
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Yes, but she does have Alanna giving her pointers on how to dance in an arrow storm.
(...I can just picture Alice dancing madly to avoid all the arrows, while Alanna sits off to the side, out of the line of fire, sipping tea and calling out advice...)
Nor is it ever really in Malus' interests to create instability unnecessarily. I think she'll be fine. For the most part. ;D
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Yes, but she does have Alanna giving her pointers on how to dance in an arrow storm.
(...I can just picture Alice dancing madly to avoid all the arrows, while Alanna sits off to the side, out of the line of fire, sipping tea and calling out advice...)
Alanna sounds like a master of Lurian politics who is staying out of power and the public eye by choice, from what I hear OOC.
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Alanna sounds like a master of Lurian politics who is staying out of power and the public eye by choice, from what I hear OOC.
Alanna invented Lurian politics.
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Alanna invented Lurian politics.
It seemed like it. A bit of an add-on would be I see here as a bit of a grandmaster-type that's kinda retired, though I don't mean retired exactly.
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Being a lurian queen is easy, you should strive to become empress!
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Being a lurian queen is easy, you should strive to become empress!
Point.
Also something only Alanna has ever pulled off.
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Alanna sounds like a master of Lurian politics who is staying out of power and the public eye by choice, from what I hear OOC.
Alanna is the only remnant of the old Pian en Luries from its founding day, and probably one of the bitchinest rulers in Dwilight history. If there was a record for most attempted or succesful coups survived, she'd be a clear winner :p
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Being a lurian queen is easy
Based on what? I can only think of four people who have ever held that title, and one of those was by marriage.
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Based on what? I can only think of four people who have ever held that title, and one of those was by marriage.
Sup. Took me all of like a week.
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Sup. Took me all of like a week.
+1
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Sup. Took me all of like a week.
Oh, that's right; I'd forgotten that Jonsu was married to Sevastian during the period he was Arbiter. So that's two by marriage.
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Based on what? I can only think of four people who have ever held that title, and one of those was by marriage.
Forget being the actual Monarch. It's all about being the Prince-Consort. All of the benefit, zero responsibility, regular loving from the Queen.
Hendrick Madigan: 1
Everyone who married for love, not power: 0
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Forget being the actual Monarch. It's all about being the Prince-Consort. All of the benefit, zero responsibility, regular loving from the Queen.
Hendrick Madigan: 1
Everyone who married for love, not power: 0
Reads:
Hendrick Madigan being beaten by his more manly wife.
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For the most part.
Thanks... I think?
Reads:
Hendrick Madigan being beaten by his more manly wife.
Be a nice change of pace in the relationship.
Based on what? I can only think of four five people who have ever held that title, and one of those was by marriage.
Alanna, Katerina, Alice, and Jonsu (but not with formal power). Who's the fifth I'm missing here? Katayanna?
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Just read this entire thread in an effort to learn about
Luria Kung FU
The Result: :o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vMO3XmNXe4
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Just read this entire thread in an effort to learn about Luria Kung FU
The Result: :o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vMO3XmNXe4
You've only scratched the surface.
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Alanna is the only remnant of the old Pian en Luries from its founding day, and probably one of the bitchinest rulers in Dwilight history. If there was a record for most attempted or succesful coups survived, she'd be a clear winner :p
That's not even remotely fair.
She only survived them because they were orchestrated by the worst dissenter in the history of Pian en Luries. It takes two to tango.
Also, it helps that Alanna was giving out some serious cool-aid for her nobles to drink, because no one figured out she was one of the most annoying rulers in Dwilight history until it was their turn to try and seize power.
P.S. Is Brom the second oldest Lurian still on Dwilight? I joined Pian en Luries in the days before Alanna first took the throne.
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That's not even remotely fair.
She only survived them because they were orchestrated by the worst dissenter in the history of Pian en Luries. It takes two to tango.
Oh, I'm so sorry, you're absolutely right! There was only one person who was ever trying to overthrow Alanna in the whole four years she ruled it!
...hang on...
...wait...
...no...
...No, that's completely wrong.
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Alice actually has a pretty reasonable chance at the Empress title. With LV about to be "peaceafied" and LN being vaguely supportive of a leader while there's a war on, she might just pip it.
As long as she can convince everyone in the conflict to keep going on up to D'hara she might retain the realm in a slightly cohesive way. Of course, the moment there's peace you know it will all fall apart. She just has to draw up a list of targets. LV, D'hara, Swordfell, *blam!*. No more potential targets, Luria does what it always does.
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Alice actually has a pretty reasonable chance at the Empress title. With LV about to be "peaceafied" and LN being vaguely supportive of a leader while there's a war on, she might just pip it.
As long as she can convince everyone in the conflict to keep going on up to D'hara she might retain the realm in a slightly cohesive way. Of course, the moment there's peace you know it will all fall apart. She just has to draw up a list of targets. LV, D'hara, Swordfell, *blam!*. No more potential targets, Luria does what it always does.
Aurvandil? Falkirk? Nice targets to keep people occupied...
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Possibly. A slight detour after LV, muck around down south a bit (no doubt making enemies along the way, negotiating with Fissoa for territory would be a hassle),then onto D'hara and Swordfell.
Still, it might not be too wise to get several battlefronts going at once. LN has enough troubles getting everyone all doing one thing at the same time. Two things? At the same time? Without infighting or someone trying to seceed?
Probably best to just try and get one thing done at a time for now. Plus, D'harans look funny.
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Samboji, you do realize that Swordfell is led by a Lurian?
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One that seceeded from LN to Morek, due mainly to him casting insults towards kings, nobles and ladies. As well as being slightly insulted himself due to his poor record recently as a cavalry commander. Then he formed Swordfell proper (possibly annoying Morek as well).
I don't know of the politics behind it, but usually when a duchy up and leaves a kingdom without allowance because they're having a tizzy for being recognized as a bit of a fool, then said noble forms a kingdom of their own out of their former kingdom's lands, then people may get the thought in their head to take that land back.
Lurian yes. Power-hungry rebel leader of an illegitimate kingdom. Yes. Sevastion has it all.
Actually, that really does mark him out as having the highest ideals of the Lurian realms.
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You apparently know nothing of Luria. Get to know your recent history before making such bold and mistaken statements.
Sevastian and the Duchy surrounding Balance's Retreat have been tied together since the region was taken by Solaria (before the colonization of any of Swordfell happened by the Morekians).
Sevastian's record as a cavalry commander isn't damaged, his reputation as a general took a hit because he tried to work with Bohdan instead of just laying out a clear plan for the newer general to follow.
Sevastian having been the last Arbiter of Solaria, and the way Solaria fell apart, has left him with a fierce devotion to his land and the ideal Lurian empire.
The land Sevastian owns wasn't formerly Luria Novan, it was formerly sovereign land belonging to Solaria and therefore Sevastian.
He is no rebel, by any means.
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By those accounts, then by the gods, you're right! Allison should rule all of SA again.
Anyway, while I make the occaisional observation or joke here, don't expect the IG stuff to be effected by anything on the forums here. From a relative newcomer to Dwilight, yes, Sevastion appears to be a rebel. It appears that Solaria is no more, and he up and left the current contender for the title of the Lurian empire in a huff.
Whilst I don't expect it to really translate fluently to IG (not without the normal amount of backstabbing and whining anyway), what would Swordfell's view on a Lurian Empire be? Would they consider it illegitimate in a historical context?
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Sev wants Swordfell to a part of the empire. His duchy is already recognized as the northern bastion of Luria.
And Sevastian didn't leave in a huff, he got kicked out by a greedy and cowardly king and his puppet judge.
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Interesting.
Anyway, since I'm kicking back, having a drink, and have some long and boring takeoverizing to do for the next couple of turns, I feel a "Sha'shanti Moment" coming on for my next few posts in BM.
There's got to be something to say that's funny. She's become quite methodical, reliable and boring recently :)
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Interesting.
Anyway, since I'm kicking back, having a drink, and have some long and boring takeoverizing to do for the next couple of turns, I feel a "Sha'shanti Moment" coming on for my next few posts in BM.
There's got to be something to say that's funny. She's become quite methodical, reliable and boring recently :)
Hahahahahaha! Good Lurian. :)
Gotta have something to do.
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Sev wants Swordfell to a part of the empire. His duchy is already recognized as the northern bastion of Luria.
And Sevastian didn't leave in a huff, he got kicked out by a greedy and cowardly king and his puppet judge.
Yea right, you just wanted to divide up LN again without the consent of the king, ofcourse he is greedy because he wont let that happen. And really, cowardly, is that the best you can come up with? The long line with defeated enemies had far more creative names to describe fulco.
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Yea right, you just wanted to divide up LN again without the consent of the king, ofcourse he is greedy because he wont let that happen. And really, cowardly, is that the best you can come up with? The long line with defeated enemies had far more creative names to describe fulco.
Right, because that King was going to return the lands that he'd gained illegally and in breach of the treaties that had been signed.
"just divide up LN"? You obviously have no idea what I was trying to do if that's all yo think.
Cowardly is an accurate descriptor of Fulco from Sevastian's eyes. He refused to uphold the Imperial Charter and betrayed a fellow Lurian Monarch, and when confronted about it, he refused to give an answer. So... I don't need to come up with anything better, the truth is sufficient.
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Correction, he's betrayed THREE Lurian monarchs ;-)
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Fulco had to chose between Malus or Sevastian, easy choice.... You call it greed, fine, he just cares about one thing and that is the duchy of Giask and he will do whatever he needs to do to protect it. If a northern duchy is in the same realm fine, or not, but than under leadership of a normal person and not sevastian.
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Fulco had to chose between Malus or Sevastian, easy choice.... You call it greed, fine, he just cares about one thing and that is the duchy of Giask and he will do whatever he needs to do to protect it. If a northern duchy is in the same realm fine, or not, but than under leadership of a normal person and not sevastian.
No, Fulco had to choose between being honourable or being a greedy prat. You chose the latter.
Your talk of Giask has no bearing on the actions your character took against mine, as Giask has /never/ been a goal of his. Other than getting Fulco off the ducal seat, because Fulco is an idiot.
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The way Sevastian behaved would have caused a war between Luria Nova and Solaria, choosing for Malus prevented it. We didn't trust Sevastian and his actions/words didn't actually inspire faith in the novan council/noble base, yes, part of it is to blame on a former general, but that didn't change the fact the majority would rather have fought Solaria than Dhara or vespers. Sevastian claims to have good plans, yet he presents it on such a way that it only creates supporters among a small group of nobles.
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Right, trying to unify Luria and get an effective assault on Dhara, creating a new realm for 'the small group of supporters' was definitely Sevastian trying to cause war between Solaria and Nova.
/me facepalms at the lack of logic of Fulco.
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More that Luria Nova would have called for your head...
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More that Luria Nova would have called for your head...
Right I forgot, your mindless minions can't stand the idea that someone else has a good idea and gets to have fun in this game. My bad.
8)
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Right I forgot, your mindless minions can't stand the idea that someone else has a good idea and gets to have fun in this game. My bad.
8)
Dude, you lost. It's Luria. Complaining on the forums is just making it worse.
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Lol.
When have I refuted the fact that I lost? My character got played hard, I am perfectly content admitting it.
Me not liking Fulco's feeble attempts to justify it after the fact, yes, that I will bring up. Hardly a complaint though.
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The Tybalt breaks the terms of the peace agreement between LN and LV.
D'Hara signs a peace even as its ambassador clumsily reveals that they're planning to land in LN soon.
LN finds a reason to (for the first time) fully commit to war with D'Hara.
Meanwhile, Fissoa's about to fall under the hammer of Aurvandil.
Welp. Just another day in SE Dwilight. ::)
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The Tybalt breaks the terms of the peace agreement between LN and LV.
D'Hara signs a peace even as its ambassador clumsily reveals that they're planning to land in LN soon.
LN finds a reason to (for the first time) fully commit to war with D'Hara.
Meanwhile, Fissoa's about to fall under the hammer of Aurvandil.
Welp. Just another day in SE Dwilight. ::)
oh boy
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The Tybalt breaks the terms of the peace agreement between LN and LV.
D'Hara signs a peace even as its ambassador clumsily reveals that they're planning to land in LN soon.
LN finds a reason to (for the first time) fully commit to war with D'Hara.
Meanwhile, Fissoa's about to fall under the hammer of Aurvandil.
Welp. Just another day in SE Dwilight. ::)
I am so insanely angry. JUST when things were turning around...
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I am so insanely angry. JUST when things were turning around...
Honestly this is the worst move D'Hara has ever made. Now Luria hates them, the maroccidenians hate them, Sanguis Astroism will probably hate them and I doubt that even the south likes them considering the outright backstabbing.
Seriously, when you're more backstabby than the Lurians... this is just diplomatic suicide.
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Honestly this is the worst move D'Hara has ever made. Now Luria hates them, the maroccidenians hate them, Sanguis Astroism will probably hate them and I doubt that even the south likes them considering the outright backstabbing.
I don't even know what they actually did yet, IC or OOC, I just have two different sources of rumors claiming they did something that sounds so ludicrously idiotic that I can't believe it's real.
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I don't even know what they actually did yet, IC or OOC, I just have two different sources of rumors claiming they did something that sounds so ludicrously idiotic that I can't believe it's real.
As do I. It's probably the dumbest move I have ever seen on BM. Ever. EVER.
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I laughed so hard when i saw that duchy transfer allegiance.
Especially now that there is sea travel. D'Hara's benefit of essentially city landings is non-existent.
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Laugh it up, Silverfire. I woke up this morning to a complete cluster!@#$.
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Laugh it up, Silverfire. I woke up this morning to a complete cluster!@#$.
Its okay. It'll work out. It always does.
Plus people enjoy ruining fun random wars.
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Its okay. It'll work out. It always does.
Plus people enjoy ruining fun random wars.
Ah...there's going to be a war either way. The only question is whether it'll be LN vs D'Hara or LN, D'Hara and everyone else vs Aurvandil.
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Laugh it up, Silverfire. I woke up this morning to a complete cluster!@#$.
My suggestion: ban whichever ambassador said D'hara was attacking, then ban every Vesperi noble that changed allegiance to join you. Peace at all costs.
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Ah...there's going to be a war either way. The only question is whether it'll be LN vs D'Hara or LN, D'Hara and everyone else vs Aurvandil.
And the Aurvandil war will be 93x as fun.
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And the Aurvandil war will be 93x as fun.
Actually, I very much doubt that. A war with D'Hara would be a border war, not a march-a-week or sail-a-few-days war. It also wouldn't require coordinating with armies from another half-dozen realms.
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Actually, I very much doubt that. A war with D'Hara would be a border war, not a march-a-week or sail-a-few-days war. It also wouldn't require coordinating with armies from another half-dozen realms.
Falkirk isn't weeks away from the Lurias.
And a war with D'Hara will involve just as much sailing and wandering through starvation-ridden deserts.
LN has no simple border conflicts. Its why the Lurias have managed to have their own, mostly-isolated politics.
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Falkirk isn't weeks away from the Lurias.
I didn't say weeks: I said a week.
And a war with D'Hara will involve just as much sailing and wandering through starvation-ridden deserts.
The former isn't true: it doesn't take as long to sail to D'Hara as it does to Falkirk.
The latter, even if it were true, isn't particularly relevant: provisions are much easier to come by now, and we would only need them while we were in the Desert of Silhouettes itself.
At least for a time, the war against D'Hara would be happening directly on our western land border. Yes, after that it would require sailing, either along an old sea route or on the new sea zones, but only to embark in Sallowtown, arrive in the sea zone, and then make landfall somewhere on the D'Haran coast.
LN has no simple border conflicts. Its why the Lurias have managed to have their own, mostly-isolated politics.
While, strictly speaking, that's true, it's very incomplete.
The Lurias have only had internal politics for so long because until relatively recently, they were entirely surrounded by rogue regions. Pian en Luries was utterly, completely isolated for a very long time. The only conflict that was even possible was against Fissoa, and they were relatively pathetic enemies. If they had been a greater threat, the history of Luria would have played out very, very differently. (Possibly shorter, depending on how able we were to band together against an external threat.)
By the time other realms were close enough for it to be even a remote possibility, the culture of politicking and infighting was just too ingrained.
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Fissoa, and they were relatively pathetic enemies
:(
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Honestly this is the worst move D'Hara has ever made. Now Luria hates them, the maroccidenians hate them, Sanguis Astroism will probably hate them and I doubt that even the south likes them considering the outright backstabbing.
Seriously, when you're more backstabby than the Lurians... this is just diplomatic suicide.
I have no idea what you guys are talking about, please back it up. This was just a mess of circumstances. The defection of the Western Marches was unannounced and the Ambassador made a mistake. How do you assume this is malicious? We all wanted peace too.
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I have no idea what you guys are talking about, please back it up. This was just a mess of circumstances. The defection of the Western Marches was unannounced and the Ambassador made a mistake. How do you assume this is malicious? We all wanted peace too.
The war started in the first place because Luria learned that D'Hara was planning to neutralize Luria, because they believed Luria would invade.
From the very start, every time we have tried to get an agreement about anything, they have always tried to get us to give them more, more, more.
Then, after the most egregiously overreaching proposal so far from D'Hara is flat-out rejected, Rynn just says, "Oh, OK."
The next day, we hear that a D'Haran army is still on its way, and LV lands defect to D'Hara. And we don't immediately get a promise of the LV lands being returned: oh, no, this is "just what D'Hara needs to be able to fight Falkirk more effectively!"
So you tell me: Why the hell should we assume that it's anything but malicious?
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The next day, we hear that a D'Haran army is still on its way,
It takes a particularly twisted mind to conclude that from the letters that were shared...... unless someone made something up along the way.
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It takes a particularly twisted mind to conclude that from the letters that were shared...... unless someone made something up along the way.
I don't know what evidence led someone to conclude this; I only know how it came out on our end.
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About the whole attack in the wings thing being 'backstabby,' the whole Battle of New Orleans was fought after peace was signed between the US and UK in the War of 1812. It took a while to pull back a military attack in those days. Same applies in BM. nothing happens instantaneously in this game.
I'm cool with people hating D'Hara IC, but this amount of OOC spite is categorically unnecessary.
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About the whole attack in the wings thing being 'backstabby,' the whole Battle of New Orleans was fought after peace was signed between the US and UK in the War of 1812. It took a while to pull back a military attack in those days. Same applies in BM. nothing happens instantaneously in this game.
I'm cool with people hating D'Hara IC, but this amount of OOC spite is categorically unnecessary.
My only OOC problem with D'Hara is the name.
This is all IC as far as I'm concerned.
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The war started in the first place because Luria learned that D'Hara was planning to neutralize Luria, because they believed Luria would invade.
From the very start, every time we have tried to get an agreement about anything, they have always tried to get us to give them more, more, more.
Then, after the most egregiously overreaching proposal so far from D'Hara is flat-out rejected, Rynn just says, "Oh, OK."
The next day, we hear that a D'Haran army is still on its way, and LV lands defect to D'Hara. And we don't immediately get a promise of the LV lands being returned: oh, no, this is "just what D'Hara needs to be able to fight Falkirk more effectively!"
So you tell me: Why the hell should we assume that it's anything but malicious?
Because the supposed army attacking had already turned around, as you were informed. And because the ruler of d'hara invited you to recon queer the ceded lands without intervention. Because every contact you've had with anyone in the moot has been them repeatedly repudiating any possible attack or plan to take lands. Because d'haran armies were already mobilizing against other foes.
I dunno, maybe every rational reason in the world.
It takes a creative paranoia to see that stuff as malicious.
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Because the supposed army attacking had already turned around, as you were informed.
No, we weren't: not until just now.
And because the ruler of d'hara invited you to recon queer the ceded lands without intervention.
First Alanna's heard of it was the relayed message from Hireshmont to Malus just now. (And she's in almost all the Councils in LN, so if she hasn't heard about it, LN in general hasn't heard about it.)
Because every contact you've had with anyone in the moot has been them repeatedly repudiating any possible attack or plan to take lands.
IIRC, the 'moot in general had also advised against D'Hara including LV in their previous peace demands.
Because d'haran armies were already mobilizing against other foes.
It's easy to say that, but we had no proof.
I dunno, maybe every rational reason in the world.
Luria, at this point, honestly believes D'Hara to be deeply irrational.
You have to remember, we have just been through months and months of trying to convince D'Hara that we are serious about wanting to fight Aurvandil, after destroying Luria Vesperi, and having D'Hara tell us, again and again, that we had to not only let LV live, but give them land, or protection, or special status or various other things.
It's all about perspective, Vellos. Obviously from your perspective, a fellow member of the 'moot is trustworthy, and you can see the messages talking about how D'Hara wants peace, and wants the war to end.
We can't.
Literally everything that has come out of D'Hara over the past months has led us to believe they are paranoid, double-dealing idiots who have a vastly inflated opinion of themselves and would rather see Aurvandil conquer us all than admit that they couldn't defeat LN in a war. This incident plays directly into those perceptions.
Do not make the mistake of thinking LN is belligerent and irrational because of our perceptions of D'Hara.
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This has all been resolved. There were a few factors that inflated the issue into something greater than it was: the suspicion that a D'Haran army was inbound for LN, an ambassador's response—which, if you're in a state of war, reads as though it were generated by an equivocation machine—, and the defection of the Western Marches to D'Hara at roughly the same time. There isn't much trust between D'Hara and LN. This was viewed with a kind of frustration by some in LN, and recent events sort of flipped the situation on its head, with D'Hara being painted as the duplicitous schemer. Kinda sucks to be caricatured, eh?
EDIT: Interesting observation. Delvin and me were writing our replies almost exactly at the same time, and we came to almost exactly the same conclusions! That's pretty neat as a couple of independent data points.
EDIT 2: To reinforce how LN's suspicion got us this close to war all over again, it's worth pointing out that a D'Haran army was inbound for Girich while the peace terms were being debated and signed. It turned around at sea. I can't recall LN ever sending an army toward D'Hara while simultaneously proposing peace.
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No, we weren't: not until just now.
First Alanna's heard of it was the relayed message from Hireshmont to Malus just now. (And she's in almost all the Councils in LN, so if she hasn't heard about it, LN in general hasn't heard about it.)
IIRC, the 'moot in general had also advised against D'Hara including LV in their previous peace demands.
It's easy to say that, but we had no proof.
Luria, at this point, honestly believes D'Hara to be deeply irrational.
You have to remember, we have just been through months and months of trying to convince D'Hara that we are serious about wanting to fight Aurvandil, after destroying Luria Vesperi, and having D'Hara tell us, again and again, that we had to not only let LV live, but give them land, or protection, or special status or various other things.
It's all about perspective, Vellos. Obviously from your perspective, a fellow member of the 'moot is trustworthy, and you can see the messages talking about how D'Hara wants peace, and wants the war to end.
We can't.
Literally everything that has come out of D'Hara over the past months has led us to believe they are paranoid, double-dealing idiots who have a vastly inflated opinion of themselves and would rather see Aurvandil conquer us all than admit that they couldn't defeat LN in a war. This incident plays directly into those perceptions.
Do not make the mistake of thinking LN is belligerent and irrational because of our perceptions of D'Hara.
On ipad so formatting is hard here. I'll respond in sequence.
1. Alice was told of the possibility of a "technicality war" directly by Rynn I believe. Maybe you got a doctored message. I'll double check this in a bit. Same message telling or turned around army I think?
2. Yes, we encouraged d'hara to abandon LV. Unsure what the point of this was?
3. Proof you know you can't get because you can't scout in water?
4. I still don't OOC believe Luria is serious about fighting Aurvandil on the whole. Y'all like killing each other too much for that to be credible. I'll believe it when I see the battle report. Even if y'all had an army in fission I'd be skeptical y'all weren't just about to backstabbing fissoa. And this is the probably most pro-Luria perspective in the Moot. Y'all are just too finicky, sensitive, and fickle.
Thus far, nobody in the Moot has ever been shown the alleged letter saying there was going to be an attack on Girich. So far it sounds like a Lurians whopper.
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Thus far, nobody in the Moot has ever been shown the alleged letter saying there was going to be an attack on Girich. So far it sounds like a Lurians whopper.
I'm confused by this comment. Nobody in Luria said the 'Moot knew about this or planned it. If instead you meant that the army inbound for Girich was a Lurian whopper, then that would seemingly be at odds with what's been said IC by people who clearly know the truth. ;)
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I'm confused by this comment. Nobody in Luria said the 'Moot knew about this or planned it. If instead you meant that the army inbound for Girich was a Lurian whopper, then that would seemingly be at odds with what's been said IC by people who clearly know the truth. ;)
I known about the pre-peace army. But a pre-treaty invasion is hardly bad faith. We were given to believe there'd been some post-treaty aggression
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I known about the pre-peace army. But a pre-treaty invasion is hardly bad faith. We were given to believe there'd been some post-treaty aggression
Now this is worth following up on. What was the nature of the post-treaty aggression? How was that belief arrived at? I'm not trying to score points here. I think everyone would genuinely benefit from seeing how dysfunctional the present relationship is. IC, everyone is professing the same goal. I can only speak for Luria, but everyone in a position to impact that goal has genuinely been pursuing it for months. War with D'Hara was like this awkward artifact that needed resolving. Are there characters who still very much want to pummel D'Hara? Of course. There are D'Harans who still let their fears of potential Lurian aggression dictate their larger foreign policy strategy. That's normal. If this dysfunction were purely the result of interactions between our characters, we'd all have probably marched to Aurvandil months ago. But it's clearly rooted in the players. This is an excellent opportunity to dissect the problem and improve the quality of play for everybody.
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But it's clearly rooted in the players. This is an excellent opportunity to dissect the problem and improve the quality of play for everybody.
Really? It seems entirely in character to me. If anything, there were probably players who wanted to put this behind them but didn't because their character wouldn't, and wanted their character to be convinced on top of them.
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Really? It seems entirely in character to me. If anything, there were probably players who wanted to put this behind them but didn't because their character wouldn't, and wanted their character to be convinced on top of them.
I'm sure that's the case for some. As the primary driver of the dysfunction, though, I think that reason is at odds with the vast catalog of chatter between people in Luria and D'Hara about the issue on the forums.
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1. Alice was told of the possibility of a "technicality war" directly by Rynn I believe. Maybe you got a doctored message. I'll double check this in a bit. Same message telling or turned around army I think?
From what I understand, Alice received that message several hours after LN was already convinced that D'Hara had decided to betray them.
I don't believe Alanna received anything directly addressing that possibility, though it was mentioned in the letters Malus passed to the Royal Court just before my previous message.
2. Yes, we encouraged d'hara to abandon LV. Unsure what the point of this was?
You were talking about what the Véinsørmoot wanted and was advocating. I don't give a fig what the 'moot wants or says in this matter if it's different than what D'Hara is actually doing.
3. Proof you know you can't get because you can't scout in water?
Doesn't make us any more inclined to trust D'Hara's bare word about it.
4. I still don't OOC believe Luria is serious about fighting Aurvandil on the whole. Y'all like killing each other too much for that to be credible.
OK, then, I'll tell you, right now, OOC, with perfect honesty:
Luria is serious about fighting Aurvandil. We're not deeply thrilled about it, as it doesn't mean any direct gain for us, and it takes us away from the war we've been trying to fight for a while now, but we do recognize the threat they pose. Some of us are less thrilled about it than others, naturally, and some are actively resentful of what they view as SA intervention.
But we are, absolutely, serious about fighting Aurvandil, and, at least from our perspective, we have been trying for months to get D'Hara to accept a treaty that simply says, "We stop fighting now," in order to do it.
Thus far, nobody in the Moot has ever been shown the alleged letter saying there was going to be an attack on Girich. So far it sounds like a Lurians whopper.
Neither has Alanna. All she heard was (I think) Malus declaring it as fact.
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Now this is worth following up on. What was the nature of the post-treaty aggression? How was that belief arrived at? I'm not trying to score points here. I think everyone would genuinely benefit from seeing how dysfunctional the present relationship is. IC, everyone is professing the same goal. I can only speak for Luria, but everyone in a position to impact that goal has genuinely been pursuing it for months. War with D'Hara was like this awkward artifact that needed resolving. Are there characters who still very much want to pummel D'Hara? Of course. There are D'Harans who still let their fears of potential Lurian aggression dictate their larger foreign policy strategy. That's normal. If this dysfunction were purely the result of interactions between our characters, we'd all have probably marched to Aurvandil months ago. But it's clearly rooted in the players. This is an excellent opportunity to dissect the problem and improve the quality of play for everybody.
I don't think I really agree with this.
Surely you don't think it's impossible for there to be two sides, both of whom actually want exactly the same thing, both of which are working hard toward that goal, but who cannot trust each other far enough to even believe that they could have a mutual interest when they're told so?
Distrust breeds distrust, and confirmation bias makes it so very easy to see perfectly innocent actions (and, even moreso, innocent mistakes and misunderstandings) as evidence of malice on the part of The Other.
I don't believe there's any significant problem between the players causing the friction in-game. I think it's all (or nearly all) based on perfectly understandable IC distrust and paranoia.
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What was the nature of the post-treaty aggression?
Nonexistent.
How was that belief arrived at?
An alleged letter from an unnamed D'Haran ambassador which has yet to surface or be presented in any even semi-public fashion.
Seems like pretty IC chicanery and plotting to me. Maybe some Lurians/D'Harans with secret pro-Aurvandil sympathies. BEGIN THE PURGES!!!
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Well then let me weigh in on this don't let this affect IC, its way more interesting for our characters to work through it. I am just hoping to alleviate some genuine OOC confusion:
1) There was a single Lurian overture for Peace that Rynn is aware of. It came months ago and was proposed by Malus. You know, the same guy who declared surprise buttseks on D'Hara in the first place. Small wonder why it was not well received. Additionally, D'Hara had JUST made it's alliance with LV which in our eyes caused the massive Lurian army sitting on our doorstep to turn home and attend to closer matters, giving us some breathing room. Therefore accepting any peace after a show of support like that would be lower than low, just throwing LV under the bus. Nope, wasn't gonna happen.
2) Rynn asked each of the Lurian rulers for peace even before this, but was denied by everyone accept, eventually, Bipel. Ya'll all smelled blood in the air and was going for it, you could have stopped then.
3) Of course D'hara wont trust LN when they say "Mah bad, dudes, seriously, lets go kick that OTHER guy's ass, I'm right behind you..." And LN, knowing this, did zero to convince us otherwise. The insisting on peace for LV, as our allies, would have bought a lot of good faith in this regard.
4) The war was never profitable for D'Hara. If we are going to through some IGRP into this, why the heck would we continue an unprofitable venture but for fear of future aforementioned surprise buttseks?
5) Girich. Yup, we were going to attack the hell out of Girich. In fact, Alice sent Rynn her call for peace a few mere hours before landing orders would have been sent. Rynn put everything on hold, talked !@#$ out, and agreed to peace. Done. Finished. He was at Qubel Lighthouse again before half of you even realized D'Hara and Luria Nova were at peace. Then he exuberantly started planning WITH ALICE and luxuriating in D'Hara's first moment of Peace in like 5 years.
6) Everything is going good until WHAM! New duchy! And Alice was all like "Bitch you best give dat !@#$ back or ima cut ya!" and Rynn responded "!@#$ yo couch! Quite cryin cause you lost. Not my fault you didn't see that !@#$ coming. !@#$ nah I didn't know about it bitch!" So basically, to a D'Haran, LuriLogic took over: "Say what? D'Hara's back is turned again? AND we can ake cassus beli? Lucky we got this backstabby knife all set..."
7) Rynn called for a peaceful solution by focusing on big things first, swearing a peaceful return of the regions
8) Alice swore to kill Rynn if he didn't do what she said.
9) !@#$ Alice
10) Copies of the ambassadors corressondance were dispatched to both the Moot and the Church
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D'Hara Lurians over the past months has led us to believe they are paranoid, double-dealing idiots geniuses who have a vastly inflated opinion of themselves
There we go. I'm pretty sure that's another way to write that sentence.
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P.S. idk what character you play JeVondair, but our characters would probably get along great.
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There we go. I'm pretty sure that's another way to write that sentence.
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P.S. idk what character you play JeVondair, but our characters would probably get along great.
He plays the Prime Minsiter of D'Hara, Rynn JeVondair.
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Well then let me weigh in on this don't let this affect IC, its way more interesting for our characters to work through it. I am just hoping to alleviate some genuine OOC confusion:
1) There was a single Lurian overture for Peace that Rynn is aware of. It came months ago and was proposed by Malus. You know, the same guy who declared surprise buttseks on D'Hara in the first place. Small wonder why it was not well received. Additionally, D'Hara had JUST made it's alliance with LV which in our eyes caused the massive Lurian army sitting on our doorstep to turn home and attend to closer matters, giving us some breathing room. Therefore accepting any peace after a show of support like that would be lower than low, just throwing LV under the bus. Nope, wasn't gonna happen.
2) Rynn asked each of the Lurian rulers for peace even before this, but was denied by everyone accept, eventually, Bipel. Ya'll all smelled blood in the air and was going for it, you could have stopped then.
I don't know offhand what the details of the previous peace discussions were, except that the terms that D'Hara demanded were always (from LN's perspective) utterly and sometimes ludicrously unacceptable. For which, see below.
3) Of course D'hara wont trust LN when they say "Mah bad, dudes, seriously, lets go kick that OTHER guy's ass, I'm right behind you..." And LN, knowing this, did zero to convince us otherwise. The insisting on peace for LV, as our allies, would have bought a lot of good faith in this regard.
You saying this makes me think you still don't have the slightest clue about the relationship between LN and LV.
As far as Luria Nova was concerned, they shouldn't even have been considered a separate realm; they renounced that right when they broke the Lurian Imperial Charter, and became a rebellious Lurian province, which was entirely a Lurian internal affair. We were also seriously pissed at Bipel and his cronies.
Peace between LN and LV was not ever going to happen. There was not a single thing that could have convinced LN to let LV live. Not even a Morekian army on our borders and the whole of SA crying for our blood, I don't think.
5) Girich. Yup, we were going to attack the hell out of Girich. In fact, Alice sent Rynn her call for peace a few mere hours before landing orders would have been sent. Rynn put everything on hold, talked !@#$ out, and agreed to peace. Done. Finished. He was at Qubel Lighthouse again before half of you even realized D'Hara and Luria Nova were at peace. Then he exuberantly started planning WITH ALICE and luxuriating in D'Hara's first moment of Peace in like 5 years.
6) Everything is going good until WHAM! New duchy! And Alice was all like "Bitch you best give dat !@#$ back or ima cut ya!" and Rynn responded "!@#$ yo couch! Quite cryin cause you lost. Not my fault you didn't see that !@#$ coming. !@#$ nah I didn't know about it bitch!" So basically, to a D'Haran, LuriLogic took over: "Say what? D'Hara's back is turned again? AND we can ake cassus beli? Lucky we got this backstabby knife all set..."
And from our perspective, this was just one more ill-conceived, stupid, and perfectly predictable D'Haran double-cross. We knew that you and LV had been buddy-buddy, and figured this was either your attempt to ensure that LV could survive despite the treaty, or just a better way of attacking us from behind when we tried to attack Aurvandil.
8) Alice swore to kill Rynn if he didn't do what she said.
9) !@#$ Alice
Yeah, but that didn't happen till after we figured you guys had betrayed us again ;D
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There we go. I'm pretty sure that's another way to write that sentence.
I would note that simply replacing "D'Hara" with "Luria" in my original statement would produce a statement that I would be perfectly willing to accept. In fact, I believe that that's precisely the point.
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I would note that simply replacing "D'Hara" with "Luria" in my original statement would produce a statement that I would be perfectly willing to accept. In fact, I believe that that's precisely the point.
Fair enough. However, I don't have enough in game knowledge to make that statement, so I modified it where I couldn't be said to just be making conjecture. I think the point got across though as you said.
I think though, that Luria has always been its own separate little entity. It makes it hard for other realms and cultures to connect with Lurians, and has led to IC distrust. I don't exactly know why, because the Moot was essentially founded by ex-Lurians, but whatever.
He plays the Prime Minsiter of D'Hara, Rynn JeVondair.
Ahh okay. If he really wants war with Alice, he could always make me Ambassador of D'Hara or something. Or just make me a lord would probably do it. Although, I guess the point is that he doesn't want war.
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I don't know offhand what the details of the previous peace discussions were, except that the terms that D'Hara demanded were always (from LN's perspective) utterly and sometimes ludicrously unacceptable. For which, see below.
You saying this makes me think you still don't have the slightest clue about the relationship between LN and LV.
As far as Luria Nova was concerned, they shouldn't even have been considered a separate realm; they renounced that right when they broke the Lurian Imperial Charter, and became a rebellious Lurian province, which was entirely a Lurian internal affair. We were also seriously pissed at Bipel and his cronies.
Peace between LN and LV was not ever going to happen. There was not a single thing that could have convinced LN to let LV live. Not even a Morekian army on our borders and the whole of SA crying for our blood, I don't think.
And from our perspective, this was just one more ill-conceived, stupid, and perfectly predictable D'Haran double-cross. We knew that you and LV had been buddy-buddy, and figured this was either your attempt to ensure that LV could survive despite the treaty, or just a better way of attacking us from behind when we tried to attack Aurvandil.
Yeah, but that didn't happen till after we figured you guys had betrayed us again ;D
Yeah, I know that as a player, but Rynn's character only knows the basics about Luria: That they are a lying pack of conceited, disharmonious bloodthirsty vipers set on world domination. No Lurian had ever attempted to educate him, nor had any former Lurian D'Haran's. And before you ask, Rynn often asks questions from his advisers and peers. In fact, what I know as a player about Lurian internal policies I've only learned from this thread.
Last week.
For example, I had no idea Alice was RPd as a blind woman, especially since her class is still a warrior. It would have made for some badass RP, minus the blind part. Imagine the embarrassment after she declined to dual for that reason!
I agree with you though that this is all entirely in character. But it sure is nice to flip the lights on every once and a while OOC.
@Silverfire, Btw, when Brom was exiled and went to Terran, Rynn asked Alura if you wouldn't prefer life on the Dragon Isles instead. I take it you didn't get the memo?
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1) There was a single Lurian overture for Peace that Rynn is aware of. It came months ago and was proposed by Malus. You know, the same guy who declared surprise buttseks on D'Hara in the first place. Small wonder why it was not well received. Additionally, D'Hara had JUST made it's alliance with LV which in our eyes caused the massive Lurian army sitting on our doorstep to turn home and attend to closer matters, giving us some breathing room. Therefore accepting any peace after a show of support like that would be lower than low, just throwing LV under the bus. Nope, wasn't gonna happen.
I'm confused. Which Prime Minister of D'Hara sought to have Iashalur and Morek as guarantors of a peace between LN and D'Hara? Wasn't that Rynn? Was not LN brought in to that discussion? As I understand it, the only sticking point in the terms, which were largely hashed out by every party but LN, was the sudden attachment of LV to the peace terms. Far too often, these forum conversations turn into turdburgers based on a faulty understanding of the facts as they happened. It would benefit us all if we could address this first, before we reduce it to simply talking past one another.
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I'm confused. Which Prime Minister of D'Hara sought to have Iashalur and Morek as guarantors of a peace between LN and D'Hara? Wasn't that Rynn? Was not LN brought in to that discussion? As I understand it, the only sticking point in the terms, which were largely hashed out by every party but LN, was the sudden attachment of LV to the peace terms. Far too often, these forum conversations turn into turdburgers based on a faulty understanding of the facts as they happened. It would benefit us all if we could address this first, before we reduce it to simply talking past one another.
That was Rynn. In fact, I'm glad you brought that up because it was another thing that Irritated Rynn because D'hara "was brought in to that discussion" as well. Those peace talks regarding the Lurian-D'Haran war were initially made without D'Hara's knowledge. All of a sudden, Ingi shows up and is like "Dude, I talked them down, you should go with this."
Now the treaty was cool. I remember something about Luria ceding all rights to the Sallowscape Duchy. To be honest, I really regret being unable to accept thanks to the recent commitment with LV. But again, it was made without D'Hara and therefore didn't represent our current interest, which included LV at that time.
Don't let that distract you, though, because the big point is that Had those discussions been made with us in the loop, rather than randomly in the background and suddenly proposed, it probably definitely would have prevented the LV-D'Hara alliance and ended the war. Period. Months ago. Done.
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@Silverfire, Btw, when Brom was exiled and went to Terran, Rynn asked Alura if you wouldn't prefer life on the Dragon Isles instead. I take it you didn't get the memo?
Replied IC. That's where this is mroe relevant.
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@Silverfire, Btw, when Brom was exiled and went to Terran, Rynn asked Alura if you wouldn't prefer life on the Dragon Isles instead. I take it you didn't get the memo?
I swear if Rynn or any D'Haran pulls one more idiotic stunt that antagonizes the Lurias, Hireshmont will go ape-!@#$ crazy. This has been too long and painful a wait for peace to have it get screwed up again.
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I swear if Rynn or any D'Haran pulls one more idiotic stunt that antagonizes the Lurias, Hireshmont will go ape-!@#$ crazy. This has been too long and painful a wait for peace to have it get screwed up again.
Hireshmont already is. I'm sorry, I don't know how he bribed his way to the elders of SA, but I've only ever heard bad things about him. (Including his realm-mates while he was leader)
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That was Rynn. In fact, I'm glad you brought that up because it was another thing that Irritated Rynn because D'hara "was brought in to that discussion" as well. Those peace talks regarding the Lurian-D'Haran war were initially made without D'Hara's knowledge. All of a sudden, Ingi shows up and is like "Dude, I talked them down, you should go with this."
Don't let that distract you, though, because the big point is that Had those discussions been made with us in the loop, rather than randomly in the background and suddenly proposed, it probably definitely would have prevented the LV-D'Hara alliance and ended the war. Period. Months ago. Done.
Interesting! I didn't know that was how it developed. So we have Morek to blame for everything!
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Hireshmont already is. I'm sorry, I don't know how he bribed his way to the elders of SA, but I've only ever heard bad things about him. (Including his realm-mates while he was leader)
Hireshmont is well regarded in Luria, I think. Terran too, to some extent. They're the responsible sibling in the 'Moot family.
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And by Gustav Kuriga.
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Hireshmont already is. I'm sorry, I don't know how he bribed his way to the elders of SA, but I've only ever heard bad things about him. (Including his realm-mates while he was leader)
That's because you run in shady circles, my good fellow. And probably talked to Alura, who was herself, from time to time, rather shady. Hireshmont II is the closest I've ever played to a "good" character, i.e. one with no big dark side, evil spy ring, sadism, or reckless self-obsessed ambition. He's generally pretty out and honest with everybody, and has never really been one to conceal his intentions. If he was going to bribe somebody he would do it by publicly announcing that he was giving 3,000 gold to someone, then, a month later, he would privately and quietly contact them just to make a courtesy call and let them know how things were going in Terran. Then, a month after that, he'd make a casual request for help on something.
Regarding SA, Hireshmont actually never even asked for an Eldership. He got Luminary without asking for it, then Light without asking for it. Like, seriously– for all the politicking Allison and her allies did, Hireshmont's rise to eldership has been close to effortless.
And regarding Luria... Hireshmont and Malus get along well. But Hireshmont does not generally like Luria or Lurians (deceptive, backstabbing, monarchist, largely heathen swine)– but he really hates the Orvandeaux. And he doesn't see any productive future in conflict with the Lurias. So he actively tries to be friends with them, whatever his feelings, because hostilities won't help him in any of his objectives.
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6) Everything is going good until WHAM! New duchy! And Alice was all like "Bitch you best give dat !@#$ back or ima cut ya!" and Rynn responded "!@#$ yo couch! Quite cryin cause you lost. Not my fault you didn't see that !@#$ coming. !@#$ nah I didn't know about it bitch!" So basically, to a D'Haran, LuriLogic took over: "Say what? D'Hara's back is turned again? AND we can ake cassus beli? Lucky we got this backstabby knife all set..."
I laughed for quite some time, in regards to that first part.
11) Rynn moaned about money and food, as if those were legitimate reasons for holding regions that his realm had no claim to.
12) Alice was like "Yo, you're wrong, but we can work this shizzle out, holmes." And thus a really nice proposal was introduced, where everyone gets what they want.
13).....
14) Profit.
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Hell, quite the jump in pages we have had here. I usually am not online at the morning, so I guess that today some kind of divine inspiration made me check it to go: WTF??? :o
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I am so insanely angry. JUST when things were turning around...
Surprised at Lurian making bull!@#$ up again? Really, you should seriously expect this from Lurians by now.
Also, ouch, 49 new messages today. Was painful to go through.
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I swear if Rynn or any D'Haran pulls one more idiotic stunt that antagonizes the Lurias, Hireshmont will go ape-!@#$ crazy. This has been too long and painful a wait for peace to have it get screwed up again.
Yea... D'Hara pulling an idiotic stunt.
You SERIOUSLY put far too much trust in the Lurias. And obviously haven't had to deal with them as a neighbor for all of your realm's existence.
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Lurians do tend to make the game interesting, though.
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Yea... D'Hara pulling an idiotic stunt.
You SERIOUSLY put far too much trust in the Lurias. And obviously haven't had to deal with them as a neighbor for all of your realm's existence.
No, I understand this wasn't D'Hara's fault.
I'm referencing the last two months of war, the irrational alliance with LV, and Rynn's general impetuous unwillingness to be Hireshmont's eastern lackey. Thinking you're allowed to have an independent foreign policy! The nerve!
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As a Novan character, rather new and completely unaware of the former history, disputes or pacts with other nations, I've found the last couple of days annoying. I sort of wasted my last two weeks of playing time in a war against our closest friends/enemies, only to have it become "They're D'harans now. D'harans are our friends (or people we can't attack at least). No, ignore the last two months of war against them. Your new enemy is: insert enemy of a badly thought out diplomatic policy here.
Fortunately for my character, she wanted nothing more than to end the war against Luria Vesperi and begin conquering D'hara. She was assisting in taking over a region that was rich in both food and gold. She is now in D'hara for some reason. D'harans usually have lots of gold, but no food. She now has D'haran gold. She is happy. She'll go shopping soon :)
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Also, ouch, 49 new messages today. Was painful to go through.
Really?
Did I ever tell you about the night where there were three entirely independent !@#$storms going on in the Dwilight University, SA and Luria, and I woke up to 178 new messages? Good times. ::)
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No, I understand this wasn't D'Hara's fault.
I'm referencing the last two months of war, the irrational alliance with LV, and Rynn's general impetuous unwillingness to be Hireshmont's eastern lackey. Thinking you're allowed to have an independent foreign policy! The nerve!
Hireshmont needs to stop seeing everyone as his lackeys. It's starting to show, and it's destroying his respect and influence.
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Surprised at Lurian making bull!@#$ up again? Really, you should seriously expect this from Lurians by now.
Surprised at D'Harans howling with hypocritical outrage when the same tactics they use are visited upon them? There, now that we've both gotten the necessary stupidities out of the way, would you care to elaborate on the specifics of the "bull!@#$" so we can all learn something?
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Surprised at D'Harans howling with hypocritical outrage when the same tactics they use are visited upon them? There, now that we've both gotten the necessary stupidities out of the way, would you care to elaborate on the specifics of the "bull!@#$" so we can all learn something?
Hypocritical outrage? Same tactics? What on Dwilight are you going on about?
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He's acting Lurian.
Because, obviously, D'Hara is the aggressor here.
As always. Obviously. Never mind the fact that it never declared war on any Lurian nation. Or backed down on its word.
But hey, they honestly believe their crap. Their new queen though that D'Hara had "declared war to protect Luria Vesperi", when Luria Nova and Solaria had been the ones to declare war on D'Hara. She also brought up a bunch of bullocks about D'Hara having always been Lurian, when the previous deal they offered to D'Hara explicitly stated that Luria Nova would recognize Sallowcape as D'Haran. And they get uppity about a ceasefire agreement in order to attack a third party actually includes, you know, a clause that states that action will be taken against said party? I was expecting some of the clauses that were added without my knowing to be contentious, but no, it's the clause about actually having to eventually get involved, as opposed to letting D'Hara start another front to then better backstab it...
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Rynn: that was a joke. Chénier avoided a simple, well-intentioned question and instead lobbed a turd, and I responded in kind. I'm glad you found my comment bewildering, and maybe even a little counterproductive. You can imagine how many people have come to feel after years of Chénier demonstrating an unwillingness to converse about things-involving-Chénier like someone who isn't running for public office, selling something, or deluded.
Chénier: the question was pretty simple. What was the specific "bull!@#$" to which you referred? Why don't you give people a chance to respond?
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Rynn: that was a joke. Chénier avoided a simple, well-intentioned question and instead lobbed a turd, and I responded in kind. I'm glad you found my comment bewildering, and maybe even a little counterproductive. You can imagine how many people have come to feel after years of Chénier demonstrating an unwillingness to converse about things-involving-Chénier like someone who isn't running for public office, selling something, or deluded.
Chénier: the question was pretty simple. What was the specific "bull!@#$" to which you referred? Why don't you give people a chance to respond?
What about Malus interpreting "well, we all want peace but maybe a few dudes may not get the order in time and may land anyways" as being "yea, we signed peace, but we will TOTALLY invade you guys and it was all a secret plan to deceive you and crush the Lurias less than a day after reaching an agreement!"?
And then all of the Lurias acting all scandalized about D'Hara's "treachery"? As if we'd for some reason make an agreement just to break it less than a day after by sending a few troops in a rural you wouldn't have defended anyways?
I have a hard time considering that as anything else than bull!@#$.
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D'harans usually have lots of gold, but no food. She now has D'haran gold. She is happy. She'll go shopping soon :)
Kinda the opposite, especially now. D'harans make bank but spend it on food traditionally so it was good to be a knight, traditionally. Now D'harans make not a !@#$ty amount of gold but I wouldn't exactly call it a decent income either, so D'hara's banker (me) is losing gold while the rest aren't really being affected, which means the lords are getting an ok income while most knights, except for those in a region making a fair amount of gold, get crappy pay but get gold from lords when needed. (I pay those who bought food the price they bought it for so if they paid 40 gold per 100 bushels, I pay them that price, while selling to D'haran lords at 25 gold per 100 bushels generally.)
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Kinda the opposite, especially now. D'harans make bank but spend it on food traditionally so it was good to be a knight, traditionally. Now D'harans make not a !@#$ty amount of gold but I wouldn't exactly call it a decent income either, so D'hara's banker (me) is losing gold while the rest aren't really being affected, which means the lords are getting an ok income while most knights, except for those in a region making a fair amount of gold, get crappy pay but get gold from lords when needed. (I pay those who bought food the price they bought it for so if they paid 40 gold per 100 bushels, I pay them that price, while selling to D'haran lords at 25 gold per 100 bushels generally.)
I'd say the knights who make crappy pays are also under lords who make crappy pays. But we did direct our knights to the lords that weren't making a crappy pay as much as possible. I don't think there are that many poor knights who have a rich liege, are there?
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I'd say the knights who make crappy pays are also under lords who make crappy pays. But we did direct our knights to the lords that weren't making a crappy pay as much as possible. I don't think there are that many poor knights who have a rich liege, are there?
Yeah and one or two knights with decent income when it should be a lot better because of Port Nebel having a 50% lord share.
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D'Haran knights can be ballers, I can attest to that. And liege lords tend to be very giving.
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And D'Haran knights could much more easily trade, at least back in the peace days. Which could yield interesting profits. Not sure if we have that many traders running around, these days. I hope we get the glorious trading days back eventually.
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Go back to your own thread D'hara, unless you are considering yourselves Lurian now? :P
Lurian Lords & Knights earn a good wage. In Sun Hall Duchy the duchy tax is quite low as well. Most get more than 100 gold/week and I think the last tax report had some knights earning more than 200. My own character is really well off. He's accumulated a large stash of gold and bonds.
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But hey, they honestly believe their crap. Their new queen though that D'Hara had "declared war to protect Luria Vesperi", when Luria Nova and Solaria had been the ones to declare war on D'Hara.
I'm sorry to have angered you on the basis of RPing bad memory/apathy? Obviously, Alice didn't care about Solaria's war, or Luria Nova's subsequent declaration, but was intent on the war between them at the time which was LV + D'Hara vs. LN, since that was the trend in the battles they fought. In other words, she forgot that the actual declarations were made by Lurians. When Rynn reminded her, she didn't argue.
She also brought up a bunch of bullocks about D'Hara having always been Lurian, when the previous deal they offered to D'Hara explicitly stated that Luria Nova would recognize Sallowcape as D'Haran.
That deal was not proposed or seen by Alice? And yes, Alice believes D'Hara to be a rogue Lurian nation.
PeL makes the colony of Shadovar on the Tomb Islands. Shadovar is considered a Lurian Tyranny. Duchess Katayanna, a Lurian Duchess, secedes from the Lurian colony of Shadovar and becomes the Lurian monarch of D'Hara, making it a Lurian monarchy. I'm not sure if you spotted the word "Lurian" in there, but that's how Alice sees it.
And they get uppity about a ceasefire agreement in order to attack a third party actually includes, you know, a clause that states that action will be taken against said party? I was expecting some of the clauses that were added without my knowing to be contentious, but no, it's the clause about actually having to eventually get involved, as opposed to letting D'Hara start another front to then better backstab it...
What? Ceding claims, handing over Girich, and going to war within a month were all reasons for denying the terms. I honestly don't know what to tell you. Get better info before going on the forums about it?
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I really do hope that our allies know just how much this "new deal" thing means to us. Basically, it doesn't mean very much at all. Not in comparison to what LN would have had. We were about to take the rest of the Vesperian lands and then move on to D'hara.
Now, we're not doing squat. I'm aware that there's probably heaps going on behind the scenes politcally, but having all of Luria Vesperi + D'hara under Novan control seems a lot better for us than having a moderately weak ally not get rofl-stomped by someone miles away. In a war that there's absolutely no hope of us gaining anything but a bit of prestige and honour, both IG and in the eyes of our allies, whilst giving us a good chance of killing off heaps of our troops and leaving us completely open to being backdoored by our most recently made enemies. It makes a lot more sense historically, and IC views of these things as well, to continue the taking of Vesprian lands and the stomping D'hara than what has happened. Instant ceasefire and realm flip against our enemies is cool? Becoming their allies through such ceasefires to partake in another war, side by side with them is fine? I think most characters would rather a united Luria and an impotent or non-existant D'hara than any amount of weak allies that don't really help much anyway.
Yaayyyyy treaties. I guess Morek doesn't really like the idea of LN being right beside them on two fronts. D'hara must be so much easier (and more profitable) to push around. This diversion has just stopped LN becoming a true powerhouse, which suits plenty of realms fine.
I personally am of the opinion that the realm flip gives us reason to go against the ceasefire. Or just loot the hell out of the realms that flipped. The gold that's going to be taken is rightfully LN's anyway, through the right of arms (the justice of having multiple big-damn armies stealing everything they can get their hands on from a former enemy's/ally's territory is a VERY medieval concept).
"Sorry Fissoa, you'll have to look after yourselves for a bit. We've got us some looting to do, and some territory to take. We'll be down soon. Honestly........."
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What? Ceding claims, handing over Girich, and going to war within a month were all reasons for denying the terms. I honestly don't know what to tell you. Get better info before going on the forums about it?
Cession of claims was offered by your previous ruler.
Girich... yea, that was dumb, I have no idea who modified my draft to add that clause. Still, that's not the one you made a fuss about.
Going to war within a month... How is that so incredibly unreasonable? Get your ass over to Fissoa already, if you truly want to get involved. A month is a long time.
blablabla stomping D'Hara blablabla
You couldn't "stomp D'Hara" when we had nothing but a few starving regions left to our realm and you launched a surprise attack, what on earth makes you think you could pull it off now?
Man, what is it with these Lurians, always distorting history, thinking they could waltz over the islands whenever and take them without effort when they utterly and pathetically failed when it was most easiest to do so, forgetting that Luria Vesperi actually got into the conflict very late.
D'Hara now has more regions, better production, and more nobles. We ain't no pushover.
The Lurias were united before, they weren't anything impressive back then and won't be anything impressive when they do so again.
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Man, what is it with these Lurians, always distorting history
Hahahahahahaha.
Oh man, that's hilarious. Really: priceless. :)
Sure, there may be some of that going on in Luria but to read it from you... yup, this takes one of the top places in the funniest moments of BM. ;D
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Hahahahahahaha.
Oh man, that's hilarious. Really: priceless. :)
Sure, there may be some of that going on in Luria but to read it from you... yup, this takes one of the top places in the funniest moments of BM. ;D
It's like when they got all uppity about D'Hara considering action against them, when they've been doing the same since D'Hara was founded.
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What I find that's interesting is the inherited hatreds all our characters got from the previous generation who, by and large, are either no longer playing, now in other realms, or no longer even on the island. Alice started playing on a little before Rynn himself did, they are even the same age or very close to it. Never met each other or actually did anything to each other, but completely loath one another because of what side of the fence they are on. It's great to RP.
The Girich clause? Yeah, that was me. Never expected it to stick, but I was looking at it from a bartering perspective, e.g. Start with an obscenely high price and negotiate. Alice no likey negotiatey.
Background politics? Well, one kid was playing around and accidently knocked a ball away. Another kid picked it up and thought "Wow, a real live ball! How fortunate am I? I shall nuzzle it and play with it and name it D'Hara 2.0." All was well and good until the first kid RAISED BLOODY !@#$ING MURDER TO HAVE HER GAHDAMNED BALL BACK. The other kid shrugged and rolled it back, tearfully waving goodbye as he sent it on it's way. It's STILL on its way, trundling along as the first kid screams obscenities at it to encourage it to move faster, while the other kid moves on to other things, like helping his bro against the OTHER schoolyard bully.
But yeah, no, the chance for Luria to take on D'Hara successfully came and went. You might as well get used our island tans and moneygrubbing. We ain't goin' no where.
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What I find that's interesting is the inherited hatreds all our characters got from the previous generation who, by and large, are either no longer playing, now in other realms, or no longer even on the island. Alice started playing on a little before Rynn himself did, they are even the same age or very close to it. Never met each other or actually did anything to each other, but completely loath one another because of what side of the fence they are on. It's great to RP.
Machiavel was there since the birth of D'Hara, and many other D'Harans have been around for at least one episode of Lurian imperialism and threats. It may predate a few D'Harans, and a lot seems to predate a lot of Lurians, but there are still many people around that were involved since the beginning of tensions or who were party to at least one episode. The House of Lords may be often quiet, but it'd blaze up quickly if you started talking too good of the Lurians. ;)
The Girich clause? Yeah, that was me. Never expected it to stick, but I was looking at it from a bartering perspective, e.g. Start with an obscenely high price and negotiate. Alice no likey negotiatey.
Yea... I was expecting them to negotiate on what I had already proposing. Asking for too much is just insulting, and makes the other party shut down and not want to negotiate at all, as they did (though they might have even without the clause, it sure didn't help).
But yeah, no, the chance for Luria to take on D'Hara successfully came and went. You might as well get used our island tans and moneygrubbing. We ain't goin' no where.
And snuggle fests. We love 'em snuggle fests, we of the 'moot.
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Cession of claims was offered by your previous ruler.
Girich... yea, that was dumb, I have no idea who modified my draft to add that clause. Still, that's not the one you made a fuss about.
Going to war within a month... How is that so incredibly unreasonable? Get your ass over to Fissoa already, if you truly want to get involved. A month is a long time.
1. Alice is not Fulco, surprise!
2. Why are you trying to tell me I didn't do something, when I'm the one who did it?
For your convenience:
"Prime Minister Rynn,
I reject your proposals outright, and condemn them for their misuse of the situation. I do not care if your people do not trust mine (the same situation is true vice-versa) and I do not care if your people fear an attack or not. I will tell you what matters: neither D'hara or Luria Nova is winning the war between them, territories are the same as they were before the declaration of war by Solaria, an equal amount of victories (roughly) favor both sides, and both sides have military intentions elsewhere.
In no way, shape, or form will Luria Nova forsake its claims on the Lurian realm of Shadovar, colony of Pian en Luries, nor will it forsake them to the rogue Lurian realm that sprouted from its core. In addition, under no circumstance will Luria Nova cede Girich. Simply put, you are in no position to make demands, and neither are we.
Moreover, forcing my realm to attack the Southern realms in a month is preposterous. It is our next target, do not fret, but I will not confine myself to the boundaries you have set. Luria Nova has pledged its support to the Fissoan campaign against Falkirk, and thus will move to aid the Grand Duchy when it is ready and able to. If that happens under a month, the better, if not, then soon enough after that.
With that said, I firmly propose a white peace, once again, to assure status quo ante bellum, so that we may focus on the Southern realms and be done with this conflict. If not, my armies will march on yours, and I will tell Morek and Corsanctum that we must postpone aiding them against Aurvandil because the Isles got greedy when they shouldn't have.
Faithfully Luria's,
Alice Arundel
Queen of Luria Nova"
Seems like an equal amount of fussing to me. Not to mention, I fussed about the territories first. But hey, I guess you know more than I do when it comes to things Alice does and doesn't say, right?
3. Why is it unreasonable?
"11. D'Hara and Luria Nova will have up to one month to make an official declaration of war and attack upon one of the southern orvando-saxon realms.
11.1 If such a declaration and attack do not happen within a month, the realms Luria Nova will be expected to contribute to the other's campaign. As soon as the month deadline expires, the faulty party Luria Nova will be expected to donate 2000 gold to the other party. If a week passes by past the deadline, again without an attack, a new donation of 5000 gold will be expected. If an attack is still not held a week after then, and for every week that follows, donations of 10000 gold will be expected. If the realm Luria Nova has not only failed to attack, but has also not made a single war declaration, this amounts will be doubled."
D'Hara was obviously ready to invade, with an army (which was about to attack Girich (surprise again)) close to its capital and ready to set sail. Luria Nova, on the other hand, was and still is concluding its war with Luria Vesperi. Lands must be consolidated, taken care of, and armies refitted. Plus, things had (still have) to be rectified within the realm.
I was looking at 1-2 months time, before war. Luria Nova already made its own promises, and was set to declare war when it was good and able to. I'm sorry that Luria Nova is an independent realm, and would like to do things on its own?
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Luria Vesperi's harmless, nothing would have stopped you from doing both things at the same time.
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3. Why is it unreasonable?
"11. D'Hara and Luria Nova will have up to one month to make an official declaration of war and attack upon one of the southern orvando-saxon realms.
11.1 If such a declaration and attack do not happen within a month, the realms Luria Nova will be expected to contribute to the other's campaign. As soon as the month deadline expires, the faulty party Luria Nova will be expected to donate 2000 gold to the other party. If a week passes by past the deadline, again without an attack, a new donation of 5000 gold will be expected. If an attack is still not held a week after then, and for every week that follows, donations of 10000 gold will be expected. If the realm Luria Nova has not only failed to attack, but has also not made a single war declaration, this amounts will be doubled."
D'Hara was obviously ready to invade, with an army (which was about to attack Girich (surprise again)) close to its capital and ready to set sail. Luria Nova, on the other hand, was and still is concluding its war with Luria Vesperi. Lands must be consolidated, taken care of, and armies refitted. Plus, things had (still have) to be rectified within the realm.
I was looking at 1-2 months time, before war. Luria Nova already made its own promises, and was set to declare war when it was good and able to. I'm sorry that Luria Nova is an independent realm, and would like to do things on its own?
Total bull!@#$ on your edits because its perfectly equal. D'hara has not declared war on either of the Orvando-Saxon realms and we have not fought a battle in weeks. I will agree, the amount of money is !@#$ing insane, and I have no idea whoever wrote that put those amounts.
D'hara was sending in an invasion force when you offered peace. Basically you are complaining that we were sending in forces to attack a realm we were at war with because as soon as the peace talks began all forces sent to invade Girich were ordered back to the capital.
With LN needing to finish up LV, I do agree a month is a bit quick to have declared war and fought a battle in, but you can't expect us to be just like, "You plan on declaring war when the fighting is done with so that you don't have to do !@#$. Na, I understand you are don't want to do one of the key terms of peace and you expect 0 punishment if you do agree to it but don't do anything." You might be an independent nation but if you are making peace you can expect their to be some sort of timeframe when a term of the peace treaty must be done and Rynn was doing the right thing by talking about punishment for not abiding to that term by talking about it before the treaty was broken with that aspect.
P.S. I originally said that the amount requested in compensation for not declaring war and fighting a battle was ridiculous as I see that as most of D'hara's gold going to LN but as we weren't planning on breaking the treaty it seems quite fair due to LN's economy. Honestly, everyone goes D'hara is so rich but the amounts you are saying your knights are making per week is similar to what I recall when I was. D'haran knight and you guys have more land.
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Luria Vesperi's harmless, nothing would have stopped you from doing both things at the same time.
Lands must be consolidated, taken care of, and armies refitted. Plus, things had (still have) to be rectified within the realm.
I wasn't talking about Luria Vesperi's armies. Moreover, have you read any of the reports on the Aurvandil army? It's pretty gosh darn big. It was in everyone's best interest to send the entirety of Luria Nova's armies, D'Hara included, so that we could have a chance at winning. Sorry for wanting to win a war I was already going to take part in?
Total bull!@#$ on your edits because its perfectly equal.
Lands must be consolidated, taken care of, and armies refitted. Plus, things had (still have) to be rectified within the realm.
I don't know if you noticed, but we're in the middle of something.
D'hara was sending in an invasion force when you offered peace. Basically you are complaining that we were sending in forces to attack a realm we were at war with because as soon as the peace talks began all forces sent to invade Girich were ordered back to the capital.
No... no that's not what I'm saying at all. See the following (this also pertains to the previous quote of yours.)
D'Hara was obviously ready to invade, with an army (which was about to attack Girich (surprise again)) close to its capital and ready to set sail.
D'hara was sending in an invasion force when you offered peace... all forces sent to invade Girich were ordered back to the capital.
Aaaaand my point. When I used the term invade, I was making reference to the invasion of Aurvandil: I thought that obvious due to the quote above my statement. Not to mention, the force already refitted. That's why I included the Girich part, in order to highlight the very probable assumption that it was battle ready. If it wasn't (which would be quite odd) it was close to your capital regardless, and that would be a supporting fact. When I said "surprise again", I was referencing some statements that claimed an army was never coming to Girich, hence why it got its own brackets.
Chenier: You can stop now.
Penchant: Why do you insist on trying to perpetuate this? I honestly don't care who's OOCly right to demand what from the other, nor do I really care about D'Hara or Luria Nova's gold income. This will have absolutely no effect on Alice whatsoever, and thus pertains to nothing. I simply wished to correct Chenier, since he was trying to talk on my behalf without knowing much of anything. Now I'm trying to disprove your point that things are equal because given the time frame, D'Hara is in a much more favorable position to launch an invasion force and declare war than Luria Nova is: also a fact.
Edit: Effect for affect*
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So the best way to fight Aurvandil is not to send whatever forces you have available, it's not not send any at all.
Right, okay...
And "consolidating"... as if that requires your whole forces. And as if you needed these regions for anything.
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So the best way to fight Aurvandil is not to send whatever forces you have available, it's not not send any at all.
Right, okay...
And "consolidating"... as if that requires your whole forces. And as if you needed these regions for anything.
No. The best way to fight Aurvandil is to fight them with all our forces. I refused the time constraint of a month because I projected 1-2 months needed to finish up everything we had going on.
Right? Okay!
Consolidating our lands takes a portion of our forces, and so does taking Shinnen and Smokey Hills: all - a portion ≠ all. The one thing I would need from these regions is for them not to rebel.
Glad you're catching up a little bit here.
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No. The best way to fight Aurvandil is to fight them with all our forces. I refused the time constraint of a month because I projected 1-2 months needed to finish up everything we had going on.
Right? Okay!
Consolidating our lands takes a portion of our forces, and so does taking Shinnen and Smokey Hills: all - a portion ≠ all. The one thing I would need from these regions is for them not to rebel.
Glad you're catching up a little bit here.
Yes, thanks for recapping your logic for me: To better fight Aurvandil, you'd rather send no forces at all then send a part of it for now, and the rest later.
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Yes, thanks for recapping your logic for me: To better fight Aurvandil, you'd rather send no forces at all then send a part of it for now, and the rest later.
We weren't talking about now, were we? We were talking about the terms Rynn proposed Alice 5 days ago. So, as I stated above several times, Alice would not agree to a one month time constraint because she felt like she needed 1 or 2 months, in order to launch a successful invasion with all of her forces. Against a powerful realm, attacking in waves on a distant offensive is a terrible idea.
Let us recap what has changed since! Aurvandil threatened to land in Fissoa, sinking all plans to invade in the near future. As a result, Luria Nova sent "a part" of their forces, increasing Fissoa's odds. Now, the rest of it waits for Duke Tybalt and King Bipel to formally hand over their territories.
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No. The best way to fight Aurvandil is to fight them with all our forces.
I think its much more about how effectively you use your forces not how much you send, especially in this war.
First campaign you send what you can send a campaign later you can fight with all your army.
Don't think that by simply sending everything you have you can defeat Aurvendil at all.
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I think its much more about how effectively you use your forces not how much you send, especially in this war.
First campaign you send what you can send a campaign later you can fight with all your army.
Don't think that by simply sending everything you have you can defeat Aurvendil at all.
You have a much larger chance to win if you attack with a larger force. Usually, in battles, the large force wins, unless the environment plays a big role (like walls or terrain.)
It would be more efficient to take your entire army and attack in one go, for the price of another month, with greater odds of success. This, rather than attacking in waves with pockets of forces, having them all die or take heavy casualties, which would then force them to retreat and refit all the way back home.
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You have a much larger chance to win if you attack with a larger force. Usually, in battles, the large force wins, unless the environment plays a big role (like walls or terrain.)
It would be more efficient to take your entire army and attack in one go, for the price of another month, with greater odds of success. This, rather than attacking in waves with pockets of forces, having them all die or take heavy casualties, which would then force them to retreat and refit all the way back home.
I disagree completely with this because you are not thinking like a group but as an individual. Sure this is true if you plan to tell every other realm fighting to !@#$ off because your not coordinating with any of them and because of that you have no idea where their army is. The war becoming two fronts changes the war completely.
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Wow. I hope no one from Aurvandil is reading this.
@Arundel, Under any circumstances, it is inappropriate to share IG correspondence OOC.
@Nosferatus, Shhh! You're in prison! you can't see any of this!
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Wow. I hope no one from Aurvandil is reading this.
@Arundel, Under any circumstances, it is inappropriate to share IG correspondence OOC.
@Nosferatus, Shhh! You're in prison! you can't see any of this!
Mwahahahahaha. Your worst fears have come to pass.
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Wow. I hope no one from Aurvandil is reading this.
@Arundel, Under any circumstances, it is inappropriate to share IG correspondence OOC.
@Nosferatus, Shhh! You're in prison! you can't see any of this!
Maybe I edited that a bit too late.
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Thanks for letting us know!
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Wow. I hope no one from Aurvandil is reading this.
This is OOC so this shouldn't matter.
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This is OOC so this shouldn't matter.
Oh yeah.
OOC things never become IC.
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Oh yeah.
OOC things never become IC.
Never. Nope.
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I disagree completely with this because you are not thinking like a group but as an individual. Sure this is true if you plan to tell every other realm fighting to !@#$ off because your not coordinating with any of them and because of that you have no idea where their army is. The war becoming two fronts changes the war completely.
So you would agree, if I was thinking purely as one nation/individual? Good, glad to hear it because Luria Nova won't ever work with D'Hara. You guys can work adjacent to us, if you'd like, but we'll do our own thing.
Wow. I hope no one from Aurvandil is reading this.
Who cares? The invasion isn't happening anymore, as far as anyone knows, and Luria Nova and D'Hara have already expressed their intentions to declare war against Aurvandil. Not to mention, they did so to all the rulers on Dwilight.
I trust Mendicant, and all the other players in Aurvandil, to play the game properly.
@Arundel, Under any circumstances, it is inappropriate to share IG correspondence OOC.
Well then I suppose I'm being inappropriate, by defending myself and my own actions against OOC accusations. Sorry for being so naughty?
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Oh yeah.
OOC things never become IC.
I said shouldn't not won't.
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So you would agree, if I was thinking purely as one nation/individual? Good, glad to hear it because Luria Nova won't ever work with D'Hara. You guys can work adjacent to us, if you'd like, but we'll do our own thing.
Just wow. You act like D'hara and Luria Nova are the only two realms and besides I am not saying we have to fight battles but you sound like sharing the location of Aurvandil's army is ridiculous. Basically you want to act like none of the SA realms, moot, or Fissoa is fighting this war? I can't believe Lurians have became so prideful, or more likely idiotic to ignore the entirety of Dwilight as this is nearly all of Dwilight at war with Aurvandil. :'(
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Just wow. You act like D'hara and Luria Nova are the only two realms and besides I am not saying we have to fight battles but you sound like sharing the location of Aurvandil's army is ridiculous. Basically you want to act like none of the SA realms, moot, or Fissoa is fighting this war? I can't believe Lurians have became so prideful, or more likely idiotic to ignore the entirety of Dwilight as this is nearly all of Dwilight at war with Aurvandil. :'(
Whoa, geez, no need to get all emotional about it and throw more baseless accusations out in the wind. I mean, think what you want, but I don't see a point in personally continuing this discussion.
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Cession of claims was offered by your previous ruler.
Uhm, nope, the only thing that was offered to dhara was that we ended hostilities. All those terms and conditions Rynn proposed were that ridiculous that Fulco didn't even negotiate over it, it would basically give dhara all they wanted and ln nothing.
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@Arundel, Under any circumstances, it is inappropriate to share IG correspondence OOC.
I disagree. There are a few instances that sharing IG correspondence OOC is acceptable, cases like this one where Arundel is defending from some pretty harsh accusations is one of them. If IC correspondence is the only way to refute OOC lies/accusations directed at them then I think it is acceptable to use it. This perhaps deserves a completely separate thread, but this has been a very heated and harsh argument all around already.
Well then I suppose I'm being inappropriate, by defending myself and my own actions against OOC accusations. Sorry for being so naughty?
This is OOC so this shouldn't matter.
This forum is OOC. It is also not impossible to believe that OOC information is used IC. It happens a lot. However, that is not what is supposed to happen. Just because it can happen doesn't mean all discussion of IC events must be stopped.
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Again, apologies for the off-topic post, but I think its relevant to state that I believe defense of one's self should not be prohibited at least in the manner that occurred here.
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@Nosferatus, Shhh! You're in prison! you can't see any of this!
what prison 8)
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Question for Solari,
Just for clarification, that ceasefire agreement Malus presented to Rynn way back when did say something about ceding claims of Sallowscape (The Cassius Belli for the declaration of war) to D'Hara, no? I clearly remember that, And' I'm hoping I shared it with some of the HoL before having to decline it. Anyway, my mind plays tricks on me and it seems you can lay that question to bed.
@Arundel. Yes, Yes you are naughty. Also, consider this. If Fissoa falls, Alice has to have Rynn's babies because she swore to it. So by all means, drag your feet. Rynn wins either way.
Swore 8)
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You have a much larger chance to win if you attack with a larger force. Usually, in battles, the large force wins, unless the environment plays a big role (like walls or terrain.)
It would be more efficient to take your entire army and attack in one go, for the price of another month, with greater odds of success. This, rather than attacking in waves with pockets of forces, having them all die or take heavy casualties, which would then force them to retreat and refit all the way back home.
Right, because the only viable targets are Aurvandil's full force in Candiels, and there's no other realms to cooperate with, like, you know, Fissoa? I'm pretty sure Fissoa doesn't need THAT much help to get a few victories against the saxons.
Sending part pf your forces doesn't imply sending your forces in waves for suicide attacks. Raids and takeovers are just as important, if not more so, than actually fighting their big army.
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Question for Solari,
Just for clarification, that ceasefire agreement Malus presented to Rynn way back when did say something about ceding claims of Sallowscape (The Cassius Belli for the declaration of war) to D'Hara, no? I clearly remember that, And' I'm hoping I shared it with some of the HoL before having to decline it. Anyway, my mind plays tricks on me and it seems you can lay that question to bed.
Yes. One of the Lurian leaders, backed by Morek, offered recognition of D'Haran claim to Sallowcape.
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Don't worry, I know how to be a good sport with OOC information. I won't let it affect any of our in game processes, that would just be slimy.
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Don't worry, I know how to be a good sport with OOC information. I won't let it affect any of our in game processes, that would just be slimy.
Let's just say I had some...annoying D&D experiences in the past and found that its easier to simply avoid the temptation wherever possible :(
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This forum is OOC. It is also not impossible to believe that OOC information is used IC. It happens a lot. However, that is not what is supposed to happen. Just because it can happen doesn't mean all discussion of IC events must be stopped.
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Again, apologies for the off-topic post, but I think its relevant to state that I believe defense of one's self should not be prohibited at least in the manner that occurred here.
One last off topic post for now from me. I said it the way I did precisely to say what you said in less words. The forum is OOC thus it shouldn't affect our characters. I also say shouldn't not won't because some do let it affect their characters.
Back on topic, why the stopping of taking over Thar Gortauth or something like that?
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Right, because the only viable targets are Aurvandil's full force in Candiels, and there's no other realms to cooperate with, like, you know, Fissoa? I'm pretty sure Fissoa doesn't need THAT much help to get a few victories against the saxons.
Sending part pf your forces doesn't imply sending your forces in waves for suicide attacks. Raids and takeovers are just as important, if not more so, than actually fighting their big army.
You're pretty sure?
Well obviously tactics change with the intent you have. If I wanted to raid, I would appropriately raid with smaller forces. But personally, I'd rather kill the big army first: lets me sleep at night.
Edit:
@Arundel. Yes, Yes you are naughty. Also, consider this. If Fissoa falls, Alice has to have Rynn's babies because she swore to it. So by all means, drag your feet. Rynn wins either way.
Promises will be broken. Luria Nova has a "no giving birth to abominations" rule somewhere.
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Not to mention D'Hara has actively worked to keep LN's forces occupied for longer than necessary.
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You're pretty sure?
Well obviously tactics change with the intent you have. If I wanted to raid, I would appropriately raid with smaller forces. But personally, I'd rather kill the big army first: lets me sleep at night.
Obviously, Aurvandil is such a big direct threat to Luria Nova, right? And causing regions to revolt isn't going to help make your realm any safer?
Just be blunt about it: it's not that you CAN'T fight Aurvandil within a month, it's that you just don't WANT to do so, because you want to attack them in a very specific way and want to do a whole bunch of things before.
Not to mention D'Hara has actively worked to keep LN's forces occupied for longer than necessary.
Right, let's blame D'Hara for having been gangbanged. Totally D'Hara's fault. Luria gets to decide when wars start and when they stop, how dare anyone else not go along with Luria's decisions?
Or, you know, the Lurias could have kept their word, and attacked Aurvandil to begin with, instead of backstabbing D'Hara. Or, you know, Luria Nova could have let Luria Vesperi be, and keep that war of reunification for a later date. Or, you know, Luria Nova could have opened a second front, given how LV wasn't a threat whatsoever and doing so would have resulted in D'Hara doing the same.
But you are right. Totally D'Hara's fault. How dare D'Hara defend the only nation that came to help it against Luria Nova? How DARE they? Clearly they've only done that to keep LN's forces occupied just out of spite. Clearly.
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Blah blah blah
I'm lol'ing hard over here. Thanks for the alternate universe report.
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Not to mention D'Hara has actively worked to keep LN's forces occupied for longer than necessary.
PAAAHLEEEEZ. I refer you to my previous posts on the subject. Anything more on the subject merely serves to entertain Woelfy, which I am adamantly against at all cost.
At. All. Cost.
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Not to mention D'Hara has actively worked to keep LN's forces occupied for longer than necessary.
If we were playing our characters completely ignoring IC and just thought OOC yes. IC, we have no reason to believe the treacherous LN was going to go to war with Aurvandil until we had it made a peace term and really even now there is much confidence they will actually. OOC I would agree that war kept LN away from war longer than needed but D'hara was in no way going for that, we just don't trust them a bit. An example to show how little we trust is if we needed someone to hold a nice sized bag of gold for us and it was between giving it to a convicted thief who has even robbed tax offices or LN's queen we would hand our gold to the thief without a second thought.
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If we were playing our characters completely ignoring IC and just thought OOC yes.
Great! Conversation over!
We just don't trust them a bit.
Now think how we feel: the exact same way. Now all the pieces are falling into place. I'm glad we've all come to an understanding here.
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PAAAHLEEEEZ. I refer you to my previous posts on the subject. Anything more on the subject merely serves to entertain Woelfy, which I am adamantly against at all cost.
At. All. Cost.
Hahahaha, love you too JeVondair. Why you take my entertainment though? It's nice having a reliable comedy thread to read ;)
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I've never understood why both sides are so determined to push for this war against a random third party when they hate and fear each other to such an extent. It just seems so hideously contrived and out of character for the realms.
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I've never understood why both sides are so determined to push for this war against a random third party when they hate and fear each other to such an extent. It just seems so hideously contrived and out of character for the realms.
pffffffffft
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Well from everything I've seen, it just doesn't seem to work on any sort of level Ic or OOC. It just seems contrived, like you're both forcing something neither of you want.
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Well from everything I've seen, it just doesn't seem to work on any sort of level Ic or OOC. It just seems contrived, like you're both forcing something neither of you want.
You banned religion.
On a SMA continent.
People are willing to put enmity aside to deal with that.
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Quite simple, to the north: SA. To the south: Aurvandil (and Falkirk). It's either fight on the side of arrogant militaristic realms invading our subcontinent against SA or fight against those realms with SA, which includes people with influence in Luria as well as the one foreign realm with whom we've had sort of amicable relations for years.
OOC I don't feel like joining the gangbang, IC however... what, should we just wait till you're closer?
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You banned religion.
On a SMA continent.
People are willing to put enmity aside to deal with that.
No I didn't, so you know, I hope you're not just marching to war based on a misconception that would be lame.
Quite simple, to the north: SA. To the south: Aurvandil (and Falkirk). It's either fight on the side of arrogant militaristic realms invading our subcontinent against SA or fight against those realms with SA, which includes people with influence in Luria as well as the one foreign realm with whom we've had sort of amicable relations for years.
OOC I don't feel like joining the gangbang, IC however... what, should we just wait till you're closer?
I don't know why Luria wants to see Fissoa and D'Hara strengthened, a new Madina formed in Falkirk, creating a power bloc that will allow D'Hara and co to walk over and give Alice a rough one as they please. Which, based on letters Mendicant has seen is the D'Haran intent the moment Aurvandil is done and dusted.
It's silly.
Particularly considering Aurvandil has no intention for war with Luria Nova in the future, but D'Hara quite clearly does.
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I don't know why Luria wants to see Fissoa and D'Hara strengthened, a new Madina formed in Falkirk, creating a power bloc that will allow D'Hara and co to walk over and give Alice a rough one as they please. Which, based on letters Mendicant has seen is the D'Haran intent the moment Aurvandil is done and dusted.
It's silly.
Particularly considering Aurvandil has no intention for war with Luria Nova in the future, but D'Hara quite clearly does.
Maybe. But things can be done to change that. History shows that if you border one of you guys, invasion is imminent and politicking your way out of it not an option, unless you want to become a subject.
Not to mention that we know that Aurvandil wanted to invade us and was trying to arrange passage through D'Hara for it before this war started. You can't just be /that/ belligerent and still expect people to believe you when you say you won't attack them at some point.
Besides, there's a big difference between a war with D'Hara and a war with Aurvandil.
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No I didn't, so you know, I hope you're not just marching to war based on a misconception that would be lame.
This quote alone makes me disregard everything you have to say ever. Doing things based on misconceptions isn't lame, it's good RP.
Nonetheless, this isn't a misconception, regardless of whatever technicalities you doctored into your law. Even if it weren't true, the implication that people should (even if they're not legally mandated to) worship their monarch above all else is worth burning the nation to the ground over.
You seriously cannot play the victim here. People have said, for like, years, everything you do wrong. Constantly. IC and OOC. And you argue and attempt to justify constantly. Guess what: there's no conspiracy. People don't arbitrarily hate you for no reason. There are dozens of realms in Dwilight and none of them are as unanimously hated as Aurvandil. That's not the continent's fault, it's yours.
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As for the religion thing... I don't think that has anything to do with it. Especially since the creation of Orthodox Astroism in Aurvandil it's sort of a moot point. Whether that means that you're more or less popular now than you were before remains to be seen. :)
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As I understand it, D'Haran's simply are not big fans of war and would rather avoid it. Why is that you say? Convince us, JeV? Simple: War is unprofitable. Doesn't get more D'Haran than that, amiright?
D'Hara and Luria hate each other (entirely Luria's fault btw), but we fear the threat of Aurvandil. An army that massive and efficient with a ruler like Medicant makes all of Dwilight (with the acception of Falkirk) Uneasy. For example, I remember when Rynn tried to get the Moot to consider peace. All Vellos had to do was say "boo! Heathen Aurvandil's gonna getchya!" And the fear mongering that followed obliterated any chance of that and embittered our characters against each other.
Of course, Rynn also sought better relations with Malus and his nobles before they declared war on D'Hara, it's one of his primary RP reasons for despising them now, but I digress.
If it is one thing the Lurians have made clear, it's that they still see D'Hara as Lurian. To that extent, they treat us as such by (seemingly against all odds and logic) ostensibly uniting against a common threat. With interfering influences dealt with, we can at last get back to slapping each other around like proper Lurians ;)
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As for the religion thing... I don't think that has anything to do with it. Especially since the creation of Orthodox Astroism in Aurvandil it's sort of a moot point. Whether that means that you're more or less popular now than you were before remains to be seen. :)
I was going to ask about that. Does that mean religion is NOT banned in Aurvandil anymore? Is Orthodox Astroism then tacitly supported by the State?
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OA is not supported, but it is not interfered with either. Lords have the right to choose if they want it in their region.
As far as our armies go, I wish Mendicant had been imperialist and kept madina. oh the gold, the sweet sweet gold.
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No I didn't, so you know, I hope you're not just marching to war based on a misconception that would be lame.
I don't know why Luria wants to see Fissoa and D'Hara strengthened, a new Madina formed in Falkirk, creating a power bloc that will allow D'Hara and co to walk over and give Alice a rough one as they please. Which, based on letters Mendicant has seen is the D'Haran intent the moment Aurvandil is done and dusted.
It's silly.
Particularly considering Aurvandil has no intention for war with Luria Nova in the future, but D'Hara quite clearly does.
@ first part,Thats how everyone sees it IC. OOC, you basically said no PDA of religion which ain't that great either. Plus your harboring Allison, which no one really likes IC anymore.
I don't really see this war strengthening D'hara nor do I see LN feeling threatened by D'hara either way. Luria wants to see Fissoa grow because they are allies, you know, the thing Aurvandil hates. And as far as the war continuing, I am not sure of either side plans on initiating the war again, but both sides expect it from their neighbor. Within the peace treaty, it only promises peace for one month after Aurvandil dies or peace is signed by all parties because D'hara doesn't care if they attack us after the war because we see it happening with or without that. Also Aurvandil not having plans based on what you say doesn't mean much as you change your mind to whatever sounds best at the moment.. I doubt you planned on basically destroying the only reason Aurvandil was able to win against Madina, which is Barca because of their borrowing of Evansburg. I doubt you planned on allying with Falkirirk.
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Maybe. But things can be done to change that. History shows that if you border one of you guys, invasion is imminent and politicking your way out of it not an option, unless you want to become a subject.
Not to mention that we know that Aurvandil wanted to invade us and was trying to arrange passage through D'Hara for it before this war started. You can't just be /that/ belligerent and still expect people to believe you when you say you won't attack them at some point.
Besides, there's a big difference between a war with D'Hara and a war with Aurvandil.
Would that be the time D'Hara was asking Aurvandil to help fight Luria Nova and we discussed the possibility, or the time when Luria Nova declared an intent to war with Aurvandil and we asked D'Hara what our options were?
Aurvandil doesn't care about Luria Nova in the slightest. You're too far away and too foreign for us to care unless you give us a reason to care.
This quote alone makes me disregard everything you have to say ever. Doing things based on misconceptions isn't lame, it's good RP.
Nonetheless, this isn't a misconception, regardless of whatever technicalities you doctored into your law. Even if it weren't true, the implication that people should (even if they're not legally mandated to) worship their monarch above all else is worth burning the nation to the ground over.
You seriously cannot play the victim here. People have said, for like, years, everything you do wrong. Constantly. IC and OOC. And you argue and attempt to justify constantly. Guess what: there's no conspiracy. People don't arbitrarily hate you for no reason. There are dozens of realms in Dwilight and none of them are as unanimously hated as Aurvandil. That's not the continent's fault, it's yours.
It is a misconception. Religion isn't outlawed in Aurvandil, on account of the fact we recently founded a religion... are going to found another, and even as far back as months ago we invited other religions to come and preach in Aurvandil. But I suppose that doesn't matter?
And I'm not trying to play the victim here, I am however bored of your poorly done dog pile war that you yourself struggle to even make sense on an IC level.
I was going to ask about that. Does that mean religion is NOT banned in Aurvandil anymore? Is Orthodox Astroism then tacitly supported by the State?
Religion was never banned in Aurvandil.
As for Orthodox Astroism, well the true depths of what is going on there may become apparent soon.
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With interfering influences dealt with, we can at last get back to slapping each other around like proper Lurians ;)
Oh? So you consider yourself Lurian now? Great!
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Oh? So you consider yourself Lurian now? Great!
Rynn might, but I doubt the rest of D'hara does.
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Oh? So you consider yourself Lurian now? Great!
Don't get too excited. Alice's children will still be miserable D'Haran half-breeds if Fissoa falls... ;D
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Alice's children will still be miserable D'Haran half-breeds if Fissoa falls...
I think any D'Haran child would be miserable. Just sayin'. Let alone Alice's children, or god forbid, Rynn's.
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I think any D'Haran child would be miserable. Just sayin'. Let alone Alice's children, or god forbid, Rynn's.
Keep it up, Woelfy, and the JeVondair's will include Sevestan's pitiable progeny in their ruthlessly amorous breeding program to spread D'Haran imperialism through the most powerful force of all....Love.
Love, Gold, and Sarcasm. Hail thy future D'Haran overlords!
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Keep it up, Woelfy, and the JeVondair's will include Sevestan's pitiable progeny in their ruthlessly amorous breeding program to spread D'Haran imperialism through the most powerful force of all....Love.
Love, Gold, and Sarcasm. Hail thy future D'Haran overlords!
Uh... Sevastian is a man, and married to Jonsu. Good luck trying to get any of his children.
/me will destroy D'Hara, in this life or the next!
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Uh... Sevastian is a man, and married to Jonsu. Good luck trying to get any of his children.
/me will destroy D'Hara, in this life or the next!
"Children". Yeah, lets call them that.
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"Children". Yeah, lets call them that.
Well, it sounded better than 'feral little monsters'.
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Well, it sounded better than 'feral little monsters'.
"Little." Yeah, lets assume they're little.
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Rynn might, but I doubt the rest of D'hara does.
Don't let the rest of D'Hara hear that. XD
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Don't let the rest of D'Hara hear that. XD
Well it's more likely that Rynn just gave up on arguing and doesn't actually believe that if he even ever says that D'hara is Lurian to Alice.
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Well it's more likely that Rynn just gave up on arguing and doesn't actually believe that if he even ever says that D'hara is Lurian to Alice.
Yup, nope, that's something that is never not ever happening(ed). Not from Rynn. He was born and bred D'Haran. Besides, one must be fluent in backstabanese in order to be considered a proper Lurian, which he is certainly not. :P
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Besides, one must be fluent in backstabanese in order to be considered a proper Lurian, which he is certainly not. :P
The first part is spot on.
That latter part I definitely question... D'Haran rebel scum! ;)
Also, in order to be properly Lurian, one must be slightly deranged and sociopathic. It's a natural part of being the best culture in BM.
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Yup, nope, that's something that is never not ever happening(ed). Not from Rynn. He was born and bred D'Haran. Besides, one must be fluent in backstabanese in order to be considered a proper Lurian, which he is certainly not. :P
You're no white knight, and the recent developments have only proven as much :P
Get off your high horse, we're all nobles here.
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You're no white knight, and the recent developments have only proven as much :P
Get off your high horse, we're all nobles here.
What did he do recently that you think is backstabbing or related to it?
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What did he do recently that you think is backstabbing or related to it?
Not something "he did" per say.
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Not something "he did" per say.
Something people did to him and blame him for, I'd say.
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You're no white knight, and the recent developments have only proven as much :P
Get off your high horse, we're all nobles here.
Have you seen the horse I'm on? It's so high and white I might have bought it off Charlie Sheen! Do you have a spare docking terminal lying around? Otherwise I might be up here for a while :P
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Have you seen the horse I'm on? It's so high and white I might have bought it off Charlie Sheen! Do you have a spare docking terminal lying around? Otherwise I might be up here for a while :P
Look at Fissoa...now back at me. I'm on a horse!
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Look at Fissoa...now back at me. I'm on a horse!
Lurian scum!
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Luria and Fissoa allied? Alanna should want to kill herself just so she can roll over in her grave!
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I'm totally taking that horse if she kills herself.
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Look at Fissoa...now back at me. I'm on a horse!
+1
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So...this alliance is just a facade so that Alanna can lead her armies into Fissoan territory next to the capital before declare war right?
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I'm totally taking that horse if she kills herself.
I could see it.
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Rynn, you're talking to Alice ALL WRONG!
You have to flatter a girl to get her to warm up to you. Follow Brom's example:
http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,3741.0.html (http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,3741.0.html)
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I'm totally taking that horse if she kills herself.
Just like when you took those lands from LV, when it killed itself. I could see that happening! :P
Follow Brom's example
Yeah, do that. You're already an advanced student in the arts of Broming. Just a few more exercises, and I could see you graduating.
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Yeah, do that. You're already an advanced student in the arts of Broming. Just a few more exercises, and I could see you graduating.
He's got to kill a Lurian monarch first though....Or at least attempt it.
Too bad there is only one right now.
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He could go kill "Arbiter" Sevastian: you'd get a real ally out of Swordfell.
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He could go kill "Arbiter" Sevastian: you'd get a real ally out of Swordfell.
Lulz. ::)
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That could work.
He kind of gave up power too easily though. I'm not sure he qualifies as Lurian anymore.
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That could work.
He kind of gave up power too easily though. I'm not sure he qualifies as Lurian anymore.
Sevastian is about as Lurian as they get. Just because he doesn't have much to say to Alice doesn't mean he isn't talking to people. Silly Pyrists.
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That could work.
He kind of gave up power too easily though. I'm not sure he qualifies as Lurian anymore.
I believe he was protested out of office so I guess that depends on what you consider gave up, that and he is still duke/lord.
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I believe he was protested out of office so I guess that depends on what you consider gave up, that and he is still duke/lord.
Yar. Didn't give up. Still have royal status, ducal seat, capital lordship.
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Yar. Didn't give up. Still have royal status, ducal seat, capital lordship.
Personally I think you shouldn't get royal status when protested out.
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Personally I think you shouldn't get royal status when protested out.
Well, Sevastian doesn't pay you to think! He created the damned realm!
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Personally I think you shouldn't get royal status when protested out.
I agree.
However, I think if you rule past a certain amount of time even protests would let you keep it.
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I agree.
However, I think if you rule past a certain amount of time even protests would let you keep it.
+1
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Well, Sevastian doesn't pay you to think! He created the damned realm!
Sevastion doesn't pay me period so I don't care.
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Exactly. You shouldn't even really have an opinion on him, as your character and him have had hardly any interaction.
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Luria and Fissoa allied? Alanna should want to kill herself just so she can roll over in her grave!
I'm not sure why you think that should bother her more than, oh, say, someone else being the Queen of the only extant Lurian realm.
Alanna's not playing for herself anymore. She's playing a long game for all of Luria.
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I'm not sure why you think that should bother her more than, oh, say, someone else being the Queen of the only extant Lurian realm.
Alanna's not playing for herself anymore. She's playing a long game for all of Luria.
She's Imperial Chancellor though. So she outranks the Queen anyway right?
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She's Imperial Chancellor though. So she outranks the Queen anyway right?
Imperial Chancellor means nothing, it's something that remained from the old empire kinda. Even in the old empire it had not much power as everything was decided by vote..
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Clearly, Luria should pull a Galactic Republic move and declare itself an Empire, investing the Chancellor with imperial power.
The question remains: who would play JarJar Binks?
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Clearly, Luria should pull a Galactic Republic move and declare itself an Empire, investing the Chancellor with imperial power.
The question remains: who would play JarJar Binks?
I'm going to just say not my character. Other than that I'm down.
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D'Hara can haz battle droidz nao?
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Clearly, Luria should pull a Galactic Republic move and declare itself an Empire, investing the Chancellor with imperial power.
The question remains: who would play JarJar Binks?
Bipel, obviously.
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Bipel, obviously.
I think that would require Bipel to still be a member in good standing.
No, I think the best candidate at the moment would be someone like Sha'shanti.
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I think that would require Bipel to still be a member in good standing.
No, I think the best candidate at the moment would be someone like Sha'shanti.
Hahaha, that means that JarJar was someone in good standing. I was under the impression that we were looking for the most annoying person that deserves death most obviously. ::) my bad.
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Hahaha, that means that JarJar was someone in good standing. I was under the impression that we were looking for the most annoying person that deserves death most obviously. ::) my bad.
Jar Jar was the one who publicly asked for the support of the Senate of the Republic to vote in favor of appointing Palpatine as Imperial Chancellor. In other words, JarJar is the King maker.
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Jar Jar was the one who publicly asked for the support of the Senate of the Republic to vote in favor of appointing Palpatine as Imperial Chancellor. In other words, JarJar is the King maker.
Like I said, deserving of death.
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Jar Jar was the one who publicly asked for the support of the Senate of the Republic to vote in favor of appointing Palpatine as Imperial Chancellor. In other words, JarJar is the King maker.
No. Jar-Jar was the front man, manipulated to do this so that the ones who really wanted it could remain hidden.
He only appears to be the kingmaker because he was weak of will and happened to be in the right place at the wrong time.
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Wesa gonna make-a Empire! Wesa gonna bring lotsa Gungans to da table! Big party! New hegemony!
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Wesa gonna make-a Empire! Wesa gonna bring lotsa Gungans to da table! Big party! New hegemony!
Kill it with fire!! Before it lays eggs!!
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It seems tome like the best character to play Jarjar is actually Bowie.
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It seems tome like the best character to play Jarjar is actually Bowie.
Hahahahahaha, this made my day. Thanks Indirik.
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Kill it with fire!! Before it lays eggs!!
FOR THE REPUBLIC!
(Yay for classy warcries D'Hara can make that Luria can't)
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FOR THE REPUBLIC!
(Yay for classy warcries D'Hara can make that Luria can't)
What's wrong with, "For the Honour of the Queen!"?
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Or... "For ME!"
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For the Glory of the Stars!
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For Generic Thing to fight for.
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FOR PONY!
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For no good reason!
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What's wrong with, "For the Honour of the Queen!"?
We are awesome, we can BOTH say "For the Republic!" and "For the King!"
Which is amusing, given that most definitions of "republic" say that it means that the nation is not led by a monarch.
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I always assumed Luria's cry was something like "death to non-Lurians (before other Lurians)".
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For spaghetti & meatballs!
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"We've got two regions left and we've been overrun by our enemies! Lets throw a tournament!!"
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"We've got two regions left and we've been overrun by our enemies! Lets throw a tournament!!"
I should have thought of that during the downfall of PeL.
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"We've got two regions left and we've been overrun by our enemies! Lets throw a tournament!!"
Yeah, wtf?
I'm scratching my head over that one.
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The important question is: Why is that 4k gold not being used to try and survive?
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The important question is: Why is that 4k gold not being used to try and survive?
Thats exactly what I thought. Like your army was too small to defeat LN but when your about to die you suddenly have 4k to spend on a tournament. But I am kinda interested in it and might have a way to make it a bit more interesting. Throw in some wagers that ain't gold maybe.
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Hmmm...Lurians throwing a tournament right before they crumble...smells fishy.
"It's a trap!"
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Hmmm...Lurians throwing a tournament right before they crumble...smells fishy.
"It's a trap!"
It's a repeat of the Rape of the Sabine Women. (for anyone who knows Roman History)
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It's a repeat of the Rape of the Sabine Women. (for anyone who knows Roman History)
Well played sir!
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The important question is: Why is that 4k gold not being used to try and survive?
Bipel surrendered already: survival is now an idea of the past. Part of the terms include Alice being crowned sole and rightful monarch of Luria Vesperi, by Bipel himself. In return, he gets to host his own tournament, for giggles and stuff.
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On a scale of 1-10, how prideful are lurians?
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On a scale of 1-10, how prideful are lurians?
Is it prideful if you really are that great?
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Is it prideful if you really are that great?
Yes.
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On a scale of 1-10,
20.
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On a scale of 1-10,
20.
Not quite enough digits mate.
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On a scale of 1-10,
20.
Well that is perfect, now I just have to hope I am lucky with the second requirement of my plan.
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Okay, I'm taking bets.
1:2 payout for those voting he doesn't last three days.
1:1 payout for those voting he doesn't last a week.
3:1 payout for those voting he'll last less than a month.
1:1 payout for those voting he'll not be banned at all.
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On a scale of 1-10,
20.
Wrong.
(http://i.imgur.com/4dYlFVr.jpg)
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Okay, I'm taking bets.
1:2 payout for those voting he doesn't last three days.
1:1 payout for those voting he doesn't last a week.
3:1 payout for those voting he'll last less than a month.
1:1 payout for those voting he'll not be banned at all.
Haha, no betting from me but I will enjoy seeing how everyone responds.
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Silly Vesperi should join D'Hara!
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or Fissoa 'n fight a real war, D'hara is currently poor 'n has long refit times.
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or Fissoa 'n fight a real war, D'hara is currently poor 'n has long refit times.
That's actually a decent idea.
Join Fissoa!
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Wrong.
(http://i.imgur.com/4dYlFVr.jpg)
Actually... it's 1006. Go get him Nappa.
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Actually... it's 1006. Go get him Nappa.
lulz
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To those of you who got my reference, I congratulate you. To those who didn't. TeamFourStar. That is all.
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Wrong.
(http://i.imgur.com/4dYlFVr.jpg)
lol
I actually love how the Vesperi king is throwing this tournament right now - seems VERY Lurian. In fact I remember a number of instances on The Tudors (wonder if mentioning this show will get me flamed) where the kings of France and England would alternate between being BFFs and archnemeses, often interspersed by tournaments and feasts.
It's good to be king. :)
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Meawhile, we're all wondering why he didn't use these thousands of gold to help the defense of his realm.
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Meawhile, we're all wondering why he didn't use these thousands of gold to help the defense of his realm.
So now you understand why they had to go. ;)
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Hopefully more of the Vesperi see how much good Bipel and his Pro-Lurian buddies were for them, and ditch the realm's carcass for D'Hara.
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lol
I actually love how the Vesperi king is throwing this tournament right now - seems VERY Lurian. In fact I remember a number of instances on The Tudors (wonder if mentioning this show will get me flamed) where the kings of France and England would alternate between being BFFs and archnemeses, often interspersed by tournaments and feasts.
It's good to be king. :)
I adore the Tudors. Wonderful show.
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I wonder if the D'harans like Bipel as much as he likes them. Little things like "Run a suicide attack against LN's main army, we'll be there later" tend to stick in people's mind. Actually, LN owes Bipel a lot. That kind of tactical brilliance is hard to find when you need your current enemies to do something really stupid.
How on earth will people get inside Shinnen if they're officially enemies anyway? If there's any official state of conflict between any of the participants, it'll be a bloodbath between their troops before the tournament even begins. Depends who's turning up to it I guess.
Oh, and Sha'shanti can't be Jar-Jar. It's all a front. Honestly.
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Tourney going nobles don't bring a unit...
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I recently found out that northern Lurians seem to think Sha'shanti is a man. Which was a suprise to me as well as many others, especially herself.
Maybe she could be Jar-Jar. Or she wears one hell of a disguise when travelling. Usually the cleavage and leg she shows leaves those kind of things indistubutably obvious, even to the thickest peasant.
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I recently found out that northern Lurians seem to think Sha'shanti is a man. Which was a suprise to me as well as many others, especially herself.
Maybe she could be Jar-Jar. Or she wears one hell of a disguise when travelling. Usually the cleavage and leg she shows leaves those kind of things indistubutably obvious, even to the thickest peasant.
There was very little communication between Solarians and Novans prior to unification. Which is the major reason Malus did it. One Luria, or no Luria. That's the motto of the day. ;D
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Which is the major reason Malus did it. One Luria, or no Luria. That's the motto of the day. ;D
Reads: That's the motto of the minute.
And the lack of discourse is why Malus transferred his Duchy? Huh. Could've sworn it was because Malus got trolled. ;)
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For the Empire!!!
Or the bits of it that you like anyway.
Sha'shanti loves all of Luria. Even the D'haran, Falkirkian and Auran bits of it.
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For the Empire!!!
Or the bits of it that you like anyway.
Sha'shanti loves all of Luria. Even the D'haran, Falkirkian and Auran bits of it.
D'hara Lurian? For some reason the Lurians think so but no one else AFAIK.
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D'hara Lurian? For some reason the Lurians think so but no one else AFAIK.
Perhaps because Pian en Luries still retains original claims on the islands and those claims have been passed down from one Lurian realm to the next.
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Perhaps because Pian en Luries still retains original claims on the islands and those claims have been passed down from one Lurian realm to the next.
And from ruler to ruler in some cases. Lurians take that kind of stuff seriously, to a fault.
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Perhaps because Pian en Luries still retains original claims on the islands and those claims have been passed down from one Lurian realm to the next.
And I believe were renounced as part of the present peace.
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And I believe were renounced as part of the present peace.
I have no knowledge regarding such a thing, but I also find it doubtful that Luria would ever willingly give up those claims.
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Reads: That's the motto of the minute.
And the lack of discourse is why Malus transferred his Duchy? Huh. Could've sworn it was because Malus got trolled. ;)
How did Malus get trolled?
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Perhaps because Pian en Luries still retains original claims on the islands and those claims have been passed down from one Lurian realm to the next.
They can say they have claims if they want, and I can see that it might be true, but Alice has said she sees D'hara as a Lurian realm, which I disagree with. Maybe a cousin of Luria but not a Lurian realm.
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It's Lurian territory. I don't really think of the D'Harans as any kind of Lurians though. They haven't earned that prestigious title.
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It's Lurian territory. I don't really think of the D'Harans as any kind of Lurians though. They haven't earned that prestigious title.
This is what Alice would mean if anything.
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This is what Alice would mean if anything.
I would hope so.
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This is what Alice would mean if anything.
I find it rather entertaining that you consider yourselves anything but Lurian. Your realm was formed out of Lurian lands, from a Lurian Tyranny, by a Lurian Duchess, and thus you, and the lands you inhabit, will always be Lurian.
Direct quote of Alice.
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Direct quote of Alice.
I agree with that statement though.
I find it hard to make any argument that counters hers.
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Hey, interesting project idea. Let's trace the ancestry of all the Dwilight realms (from the First Four).
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I agree with that statement though.
I find it hard to make any argument that counters hers.
So how does you and your lands not equal D'hara and D'harans?
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So how does you and your lands not equal D'hara and D'harans?
D'Hara was founded as an offshoot of Luria. The current Luria Nova was created as part of the core of Luria. Luria Nova was the whos monarch's were granted the claims of Luria by the Lurian Empire and Pian en Luries before them. D'Hara has no such claim to those.
D'Hara in addition was created specifically by those seeking to oppose Luria and its goals. It was built from traitors to the Lurian crown. Why would they retain claim to the lands of Luria?
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D'Hara was founded as an offshoot of Luria. The current Luria Nova was created as part of the core of Luria. Luria Nova was the whos monarch's were granted the claims of Luria by the Lurian Empire and Pian en Luries before them. D'Hara has no such claim to those.
D'Hara in addition was created specifically by those seeking to oppose Luria and its goals. It was built from traitors to the Lurian crown. Why would they retain claim to the lands of Luria?
So what your saying is that D'hara has no claim to the lands it owns? I am a bit confused tbh.
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So what your saying is that D'hara has no claim to the lands it owns? I am a bit confused tbh.
Not at all. D'Hara certainly has claim to the lands it owns. Luria just has a prior and stronger claim.
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And I believe were renounced as part of the present peace.
That was apart of the ridiculous terms Rynn offered for peace and the messenger vearing them rode the riars of laughter all the way back to Port Raviel.
"Our biggest military accomplishment was retaking the Desert while Luria Nova pressed our ally and gave zero !@#$s about us taking the region. Give us Girich and renounce your claims or face our wrath!"
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A lot of time has passed since the time of Lurian dominance in the Dragon Isles. I think the claim weakens the longer it's merely a claim and not a manifest reality.
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A claims are as strong as the force that supports it.
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Judging from their recent performance that doesn't do much to strengthen Luria's claims :P
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Judging from their recent performance that doesn't do much to strengthen Luria's claims :P
If we're going strictly on Performance, D'hara should have claim to the Desert, and that's about it.
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If we're going strictly on Performance, D'hara should have claim to the Desert, and that's about it.
I disagree.
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If we're going strictly on Performance, D'hara should have claim to the Desert, and that's about it.
Not that it'd be much of a difference. They'd still have no food, no gold and a terrible tactical position. ::)
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But they would be safe from our advys hunting their precious monsters and undead to extinction. Which would be their only substantial form of income if they only had the desert.
I hate that desert. It costs me 8-10 gold every time I want to spy on D'hara just to go around it. They could have the decency to put some roads in or something.
The next peace-treaty, ceasefire or random bit of diplomacy we do with D'hara, can we demand that they put in some sodding transport infrastructure through the desert? I've had to pay for ships 3 times now. It's damn inconvenient to spy on them, I'll tell you that.
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But they would be safe from our advys hunting their precious monsters and undead to extinction. Which would be their only substantial form of income if they only had the desert.
I hate that desert. It costs me 8-10 gold every time I want to spy on D'hara just to go around it. They could have the decency to put some roads in or something.
The next peace-treaty, ceasefire or random bit of diplomacy we do with D'hara, can we demand that they put in some sodding transport infrastructure through the desert? I've had to pay for ships 3 times now. It's damn inconvenient to spy on them, I'll tell you that.
That's why you get a spy in D'Hara. Geez.
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That's why you get a spy in D'Hara. Geez.
Seriously, its not even that hard. :-p
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Seriously, its not even that hard. :-p
There's an understatement. ;)
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But they would be safe from our advys hunting their precious monsters and undead to extinction. Which would be their only substantial form of income if they only had the desert.
I hate that desert. It costs me 8-10 gold every time I want to spy on D'hara just to go around it. They could have the decency to put some roads in or something.
The next peace-treaty, ceasefire or random bit of diplomacy we do with D'hara, can we demand that they put in some sodding transport infrastructure through the desert? I've had to pay for ships 3 times now. It's damn inconvenient to spy on them, I'll tell you that.
You complain about using ships three times? Bah, you think you could ever takeover D'hara while you think 3 times is bad?
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There's an understatement. ;)
*Nobles from our long time enemy join D'hara* They must all actually hate LN as LN would never send a spy with the half dozen defectors.
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*Nobles from our long time enemy join D'hara* They must all actually hate LN as LN would never send a spy with the half dozen defectors.
That would be a pretty obvious spy too. C'mon man, think outside the box!
/me has spies throughout the 'moot!
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WHAT!? THERE ARE SPIES IN THE MOOT?
HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE!!?!
I thought our very open, publicly-available political discourses and rotating often uncontested political positions were airtight security!
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Seriously, its not even that hard. :-p
And here I thought everyone already had spies in D'Hara?
Eesh, how lousy are you? You don't even have a spy in D'Hara! What a noob. ::)
You complain about using ships three times? Bah, you think you could ever takeover D'hara while you think 3 times is bad?
He complains about having to use ships on a few rare occasions for... the desert... and yet, they want to make a militaristic realm out of the isles. The consistency is mind-blowing.
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DH & Luria
Frenemies 4 lyfe.
<333
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It's like Lindsay Lohan (D'Hara) vs the Plastics (Luria).
So awesome.
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WHAT!? THERE ARE SPIES IN THE MOOT?
HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE!!?!
I thought our very open, publicly-available political discourses and rotating often uncontested political positions were airtight security!
You mean the same moot where almost all discussion of importance aka anything worth recruiting a spy for takes place exclusively in the Elder council only? The same moot that debated kicking Jonsu out but decided not to because she's only an aspirant and unable to gain access to this supposed publicly available political discourse? Personally anyway. Come on.
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HOW DARE WE NOT DISCUSS EVERY MINOR DETAIL IN PUBLIC! D:
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HOW DARE WE NOT DISCUSS EVERY MINOR DETAIL IN PUBLIC! D:
It would save me a few minutes of my time. Also, how dare you not share every minute detail in public and then calim to do exactly that!
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It would save me a few minutes of my time. Also, how dare you not share every minute detail in public and then calim to do exactly that!
Ya'll overestimate the amount of discussion that goes on among the elders.
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Ya'll overestimate the amount of discussion that goes on among the elders.
Elders communication is irrelevant for 90% of the realm
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You mean the same moot where almost all discussion of importance aka anything worth recruiting a spy for takes place exclusively in the Elder council only? The same moot that debated kicking Jonsu out but decided not to because she's only an aspirant and unable to gain access to this supposed publicly available political discourse? Personally anyway. Come on.
lol.
I think your spies are a bit mixed up.
And many of us forward most elder messages to realm legislatures or members of them anyways.
Nobody in the Moot realistically expects things in the Elders to be very secret. Private, but not secret.
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Ya'll overestimate the amount of discussion that goes on among the elders.
Its very very infrequent.
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Want to get in on that sweet 'Moot Elder council discussion?
Step 1: Join Terran.
Step 2: Wait for Terran Elder position to open up.
Step 3: Wait for Mootgram to say "Hey... uh, we should probably fill this Elder position, any takers?"
Step 4: Wait a week.
Step 5: Listen to Mootgram say, "Hey everyone, I'm being serious, we should really fill this position. Anybody?"
Step 6: Wait another week.
Step 7: Speak up and say "Uh... I guess I'll do it."
Step 8: Become a 'Moot Elder.
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And I believe were renounced as part of the present peace.
No. Absolutely not.
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Want to get in on that sweet 'Moot Elder council discussion?
In Barca, whenever there was an open Elder position, there were always a few people interested for the position.
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In Barca, whenever there was an open Elder position, there were always a few people interested for the position.
And yet Barcan elders are known to be the least participating in elder discussions...
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Which is saying something.
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In other news, Luria Nova wins both events at Luria Vesperi's tournament/celebration of life! Was there cheating involved? Were foreign contestants stabbed in the back whilst fighting? This is all so very exciting.
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Or, as in war, half of the Vesperi contestants jumped the jousting line early and ran into the business end of a lance. Occam's razor as wielded by Charles Darwin.
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How I view Alice's thoughts on Bipel's proposed tournament:
"So....lets get this straight, instead of fighting me, and using your gold to make my realm weaker, instead you want to host a tournament where Luria is known to have highly successful competitors. Okay, so you are really just donating my realm thousands of gold.
Yep, we'll take that deal. "
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How I view Alice's thoughts on Bipel's proposed tournament:
"So....lets get this straight, instead of fighting me, and using your gold to make my realm weaker, instead you want to host a tournament where Luria is known to have highly successful competitors. Okay, so you are really just donating my realm thousands of gold.
Yep, we'll take that deal. "
That deal also assured Alice as the sole and rightful Queen of Luria Vesperi, before the realm went into anarchy. I guess, in the end, we won our own tournament.
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You know what I'd like to win?
The War. -_-
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You know what I'd like to win?
The War. -_-
Against whom, again?
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Against whom, again?
Aurvandil
Remember?
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So SA+Moot+Luria = around 200 000 CS, i think you need little bit more to beat Aurvandil ;D
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Aurvandil
Remember?
You sure your not at war with Astrum?
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It will be interesting to sort this out, because someone is lying, either IC or OOC.
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It will be interesting to sort this out, because someone is lying, either IC or OOC.
wait...wat?
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wait...wat?
This will play out IC. Then, I'll explain the sequence of events OOC. It may amount to nothing, but talking about it here would be placing too much trust in the hands of too many people.
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This will play out IC. Then, I'll explain the sequence of events OOC. It may amount to nothing, but talking about it here would be placing too much trust in the hands of too many people.
Right then. Carry on.
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This will play out IC. Then, I'll explain the sequence of events OOC. It may amount to nothing, but talking about it here would be placing too much trust in the hands of too many people.
I honestly don't even know what situation is being discussed.
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Not a Lurian one. In other news, everyone hates the banker, save the queen and judge!
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Not a Lurian one. In other news, everyone hates the banker, save the queen and judge!
I adore Hrok.
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I'm still not sure if the objections to Hrok are because he's mean, because LN has a group of uppity knights/rural lords, or if it's a loosely knight coalition of both. For my part, I'll put up with an awful lot for competence. Peasants can't eat niceties.
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Can someone tell me what the devil is going on with Luria Vesperi?
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I guess they are enjoying their last days. The takeover should be over soon I think.
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Can someone tell me what the devil is going on with Luria Vesperi?
Essentially, Luria Nova is Luria Vesperi. Those nobles calling Shinnen "Luria Vesperi" are clearly deluded.
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Can someone please explain why Hireshmont is representing D'hara in talks with Luria?
I can't stop laughing.
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Can someone please explain why Hireshmont is representing D'hara in talks with Luria?
I can't stop laughing.
Because no one likes D'hara, and Luria has taken the sensible route of cutting them out all together.
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Because no one likes the Lurias, and D'Hara has taken the sensible route of cutting them out all together.
8)
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Because no one likes D'hara, and Luria has taken the sensible route of cutting them out all together.
+1
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Can someone please explain why Hireshmont is representing D'hara in talks with Luria?
I can't stop laughing.
He is making deals on our behalf behind our back.
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Smart man.
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Smart man.
He is going to !@#$ over D'hara big time.
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He is going to !@#$ over D'hara big time.
Someday in the future, I'd love to see an accounting of all of this. Like a timeline of IC events coupled with their perception by various parties. I really do think this would be amazing. Because from the perspective of the decision makers in Luria, Hireshmont (and a few other factors, to be fair) is the only thing saving D'Hara from the Vesperi treatment.
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It confuses me that D'hara luria and aurvandil are all enemies of each other. You'd think one would have the intelligence to befriend another and gang up on the third and fight their battles later.
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It confuses me that D'hara luria and aurvandil are all enemies of each other. You'd think one would have the intelligence to befriend another and gang up on the third and fight their battles later.
In case you hadn't noticed, that's what D'Hara and Luria are currently trying (and failing) to do.
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In case you hadn't noticed, that's what D'Hara and Luria are currently trying (and failing) to do.
It's also basically what the Lurias and Aurvandil had done against D'Hara earlier on, and what Aurvandil and D'Hara pondered doing before that.
But by my count, Falkirk's going down pretty rapidly. Ain't doing all that bad.
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Rynn found that Lurians in general, and Alice in particular, tend to begin every conversation with something akin to "I want" and end with something on the level of "or else," with everything in between smacking of arrogance and paranoia. Props for the Lurian players playing their characters to a T, though.
Anyway, He told Vellos he simply wasn't gonna deal with it anymore. Best that way. Although, Rynn is unaware of any deal-making o_0
Also, Jonsu at Rynn's wedding in Mimer? I had to roll a d20 to see how Rynn would handle THAT one.
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Luria finds that any D'haran communique contains the phrase "We deserve..." "in payment..." "in restitution"
Also, yes I felt like crashing the wedding :p And honestly, you invited Allison? Or is she crashing it too?
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Please, sir, separate yourself from your character! :-p If Jonsu had played her cards right, it might have been her at that alter.
Besides, we did deserve a restitution 8)
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Please, sir, separate yourself from your character! :-p If Jonsu had played her cards right, it might have been her at that alter.
Besides, we did deserve a restitution 8)
While I won't argue the merits of her current husband, he was a fantastic stepping stone. At the time Rynn couldn't hold a candle to what Sevastian offered.
Restitution is for winners :p
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Now I ain't sayin she a gold digga...but patience and investment pay off nicely.
And restitution are for those who were wronged, and no one anywhere ever claimed that attack was on us was right. And don't forget that "us" (D'Hara) included Baroness Jonsu at the time.
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I got restitution. Restitution is in a nice happy world for those who were wronged. But seldom will someone who wins pay restitution? No. Case in point, Germany post WWI had to pay restitution for the war. Because they lost. Heck, they didn't even start the war.
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That may be, but the Germans definitely LOST the war. Not so with D'Hara. <Insert random Chruchill quote>
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That may be, but the Germans definitely LOST the war. Not so with D'Hara. <Insert random Chruchill quote>
I'll break the war down for you like this:
Luria is Britian and wars Germany (D'hara) and Austria (LV). Austria gets destroyed and becomes part of Britian. Who won?
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Someday in the future, I'd love to see an accounting of all of this. Like a timeline of IC events coupled with their perception by various parties. I really do think this would be amazing. Because from the perspective of the decision makers in Luria, Hireshmont (and a few other factors, to be fair) is the only thing saving D'Hara from the Vesperi treatment.
:P
Look up "third party diplomacy."
Or ask yourself why you hire a realtor.
Sometimes, if you need something done right... you hire someone else to do it because you're way to emotionally invested and will just screw everything up for everyone.
And then NOBODY gets to kill the Vandals.
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He is making deals on our behalf behind our back.
Emphasis on "on our behalf."
And "behind our back" is only because I've made damn sure you're facing towards Aurvandil. And you're gonna stay that way until I say otherwise, or else I swear, I will spam the Moot with polemic YET AGAIN. DON'T MAKE ME DO IT. ;)
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Emphasis on "on our behalf."
And "behind our back" is only because I've made damn sure you're facing towards Aurvandil. And you're gonna stay that way until I say otherwise, or else I swear, I will spam the Moot with polemic YET AGAIN. DON'T MAKE ME DO IT. ;)
Your character has a surprisingly high blood pressure threshold. Sometimes it amuses Rynn to see just how far Vellos can be pushed. But really, its Alice you should worry about. Rynn may be emotional, but at least he's not irrational.
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Your character has a surprisingly high blood pressure threshold. Sometimes it amuses Rynn to see just how far Vellos can be pushed. But really, its Alice you should worry about. Rynn may be emotional, but at least he's not irrational.
If Rynn thinks Alice is irrational, then it's highly unlikely that he'll ever be capable of constructive dialog with a Lurian. Alice is played pretty cool by Lurian standards. And, well, it doesn't help when one sovereign proposes to end a war by suggesting that another sovereign spread her legs for a little baby-makin'. Malus would've burned Dwilight to the ground just to get to Rynn. If Alice was making his life difficult as a result, I'd say that's fair. This is especially true considering the excellent personal storyline that Arundel has for Alice. Shocked the hell out of me when Malus learned about it.
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If Rynn thinks Alice is irrational, then it's highly unlikely that he'll ever be capable of constructive dialog with a Lurian. Alice is played pretty cool by Lurian standards. And, well, it doesn't help when one sovereign proposes to end a war by suggesting that another sovereign spread her legs for a little baby-makin'. Malus would've burned Dwilight to the ground just to get to Rynn. If Alice was making his life difficult as a result, I'd say that's fair. ;)
Too bad nobody's trying to spread Malus' legs. :)
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Too bad nobody's trying to spread Malus' legs. :)
That you know of. :-*
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Your character has a surprisingly high blood pressure threshold. Sometimes it amuses Rynn to see just how far Vellos can be pushed. But really, its Alice you should worry about. Rynn may be emotional, but at least he's not irrational.
The Moot wasn't built by passion, young man. It was built by patience.
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The Moot wasn't built by passion, young man. It was built by patience.
And cooperation, and dialogue. Things that seem rather lacking these days.
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And cooperation, and dialogue. Things that seem rather lacking these days.
I won't claim to know everything that happens in the 'Moot, but it really seems to informed outsiders like a contest of ideologies between D'Haran interests and Terran interests. More specifically, the interests of Machiavel and Hireshmont. It should already be evident IC, so I'm not really spoiling anything by saying it here, but Luria could really give two !@#$s about D'Haran interests as represented by Machiavel (and Rynn, by extension). Terran has consistently demonstrated a capacity for reasoned discourse, free of paranoid delusion. Whatever its internal dysfunction, there has always been a cool, rational calculus to Lurian foreign policy (I will take this moment to once again compare Luria to Afghanistan). Maybe that's the reason for any lapse in communication within the 'Moot?
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Machiavel has only had extremely limited contact with any lurian in quite some time, especially if you discard a few indirect messages in Swordfell. Last time I recall was about trade with Solaria, before the war.
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Machiavel has only had extremely limited contact with any lurian in quite some time
Let's keep it that way.
Hireshmont is a FANTASTIC carrier pigeon.
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Let's keep it that way.
Hireshmont is a FANTASTIC carrier pigeon.
Rarely have I seen a carrier pigeon write his own missives.
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Rarely have I seen a carrier pigeon write his own missives.
He's a very, VERY good pigeon.
He'll even rewrite YOUR missives, on your behalf!
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He's a very, VERY good pigeon.
He'll even rewrite YOUR missives, on your behalf!
In Imperial Luria, missives write you.
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I won't claim to know everything that happens in the 'Moot, but it really seems to informed outsiders like a contest of ideologies between D'Haran interests and Terran interests. More specifically, the interests of Machiavel and Hireshmont. It should already be evident IC, so I'm not really spoiling anything by saying it here, but Luria could really give two !@#$s about D'Haran interests as represented by Machiavel (and Rynn, by extension). Terran has consistently demonstrated a capacity for reasoned discourse, free of paranoid delusion. Whatever its internal dysfunction, there has always been a cool, rational calculus to Lurian foreign policy (I will take this moment to once again compare Luria to Afghanistan). Maybe that's the reason for any lapse in communication within the 'Moot?
Boom! Described it to a 'T'!
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I won't claim to know everything that happens in the 'Moot, but it really seems to informed outsiders like a contest of ideologies between D'Haran interests and Terran interests. More specifically, the interests of Machiavel and Hireshmont. It should already be evident IC, so I'm not really spoiling anything by saying it here, but Luria could really give two !@#$s about D'Haran interests as represented by Machiavel (and Rynn, by extension). Terran has consistently demonstrated a capacity for reasoned discourse, free of paranoid delusion. Whatever its internal dysfunction, there has always been a cool, rational calculus to Lurian foreign policy (I will take this moment to once again compare Luria to Afghanistan). Maybe that's the reason for any lapse in communication within the 'Moot?
So you blabber on about a bunch of stuff (no offence) but what is it that is the reason you think for a lapse in communication within the 'Moot?
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So you blabber on about a bunch of stuff (no offence) but what is it that is the reason you think for a lapse in communication within the 'Moot?
It's outside observation. Its a perception based on everything we've gathered. It generally appears, as Solari said, that Terran is one one page, Barca general goes along with them, and then D'hara is off in left field. Rynn does do things separately from the moot quite often from what we've seen.
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It's outside observation. Its a perception based on everything we've gathered. It generally appears, as Solari said, that Terran is one one page, Barca general goes along with them, and then D'hara is off in left field. Rynn does do things separately from the moot quite often from what we've seen.
*Hireshmont is seen somewhere grumbling about upstart kids who don't know their place*
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*Hireshmont is seen somewhere grumbling about upstart kids who don't know their place*
*Rynn discards yet another letter from the overbearing father he never wanted*
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So you blabber on about a bunch of stuff (no offence) but what is it that is the reason you think for a lapse in communication within the 'Moot?
Stabbity kind of answered this, but a direct request deserves a response! It's just a summary of IC observations. I've always found the dynamic between Luria, D'Hara, and their competing (and sometimes aligned) interests fascinating. The forum can be a good place to gather around the proverbial water cooler and talk about this stuff. Like commentary tracks on a DVD. That scene where Machiavel rides a horse into the Earl's keep and cuts off his head with a huge sword is awesome, but it's awesome on another level when you can listen to the Director's commentary about shooting the scene. ;)
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Stabbity kind of answered this, but a direct request deserves a response! It's just a summary of IC observations. I've always found the dynamic between Luria, D'Hara, and their competing (and sometimes aligned) interests fascinating. The forum can be a good place to gather around the proverbial water cooler and talk about this stuff. Like commentary tracks on a DVD. That scene where Machiavel rides a horse into the Earl's keep and cuts off his head with a huge sword is awesome, but it's awesome on another level when you can listen to the Director's commentary about shooting the scene. ;)
Dream sequence?
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I don't remember cutting off any heads. ;)
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Grrr...
So Rynn responded to one of Alice's messages and said more offensive things.
He really doesn't get the idea here does he...
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Grrr...
So Rynn responded to one of Alice's messages and said more offensive things.
He really doesn't get the idea here does he...
But daaaaaad! She started it!
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Does that mean we can finally start talking about Stormfell again? Aurvandil's just too damn far away. It's not that we can't do anything there, it's just more of a case of not being bothered. Fissoa seems all happy and safe for now. Which means, other than niceties like "Look kid, you're on your own now.", that war's pretty much over.
Or at least temporarily halted while LN gets rich. So god-damned rich and powerful that we'll have to find an easier war to fight, just so we're not the next target.
Ps. Do we play out illegitimate pregnancies in RT or by BM seasons?
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There are many piles of rocks worth fighting over. Stormfell isn't one of them. Whoever convinced me to conquer them in the first place: I hate you. They were better as a perpetual rogue hunting preserve.
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We've still got the hunting reserve in former LV. It's sort of like Aur vs LN. Can we be bothered taking those areas? Sha is all patriotic in the sense of "of course we should, everywhere in general range should be LN". But do we need them, do we even want them?
We just need to find somewhere decent to attack and, this is the important part, actually get anything out of.
Excuse my ignorance though, I thought Stormfell was what we were going to call D'hara. I really must have missed something there...........
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The land formerly known as LV is Malus' future duchy. :-[
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But....... Sun Hall...... Lots and lots of Sun Hall. So much Sun Hall........ Do people even realize just how big the place is going to be by the end of this?
At least it works though (aside from incompetant countesses and home-defence Marshals. Thank god Sha doesn't have to do that any more. I actually had to do stuff and read stuff and be politely ignored continuously).
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Anyway, regardless of how the duchies end up, at least Sha'shanti can always rely on the Divides and the arse-end of Morek to provide some decent hunting. I'm still very tempted to leave Flying Hongrns without a milita, just so there'll definitely be something to do. Or with just enough archers to whittle them a bit until she gets there. Or infantry.
I sort of don't want our northern frontier completely protected. The poor old Host will end up with nothing to do other than muck around in your new duchy or take half a week to travel south. Or more likely in this case, the reverse.
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There are many piles of rocks worth fighting over. Stormfell isn't one of them. Whoever convinced me to conquer them in the first place: I hate you. They were better as a perpetual rogue hunting preserve.
A. Swordfell, not Stormfell. Stormfell was the brilliant idea we had before the decay of Solaria. Swordfell is the cluster!@#$ that currently exists in the Divides and Flow peninsula.
B. I love you too Solari. Thanks for letting me take BR. ;)
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After that huge cluster****, we're back to square one: alone and ready for war.
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After that huge cluster****, we're back to square one: alone and ready for war.
Wanted war so bad you guys had to pull out from one.
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Wanted war so bad you guys had to pull out from one.
I laughed so hard from this. Oh my gosh. ;D ;D ;D
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Wanted war so bad you guys had to pull out from one.
God dammit, yes. Damn you both, D'Hara and Luria! Why is it so hard to just help Fissoa against Aurvandil? 8)
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Pretty much because of Skyndarbau.
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Pretty much because of Skyndarbau.
In what way? I know he's being accused and all, but I'm not sure of what exactly...
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A. Swordfell, not Stormfell. Stormfell was the brilliant idea we had before the decay of Solaria. Swordfell is the cluster!@#$ that currently exists in the Divides and Flow peninsula.
B. I love you too Solari. Thanks for letting me take BR. ;)
:-*
You have infinitely more patience for that project than I did!
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In what way? I know he's being accused and all, but I'm not sure of what exactly...
His version of diplomacy would, by most standards, be considered pretty much the opposite.
Basically, LN invited Fissoa to join the Lurian Empire. Skyn replied that Fissoa's people wouldn't appreciate being called Lurian anything, due to the history there. LN thought about it, and decided, "OK, if Fissoa still distrusts the name "Luria" that much, it's probably not the right time to try bringing them into the Empire. Give them more time to see we're not totally unreasonable and dangerous, maybe fight alongside them against a common enemy for a while, and hopefully they'll come to see the name as something good."
Skyn's responses beyond that grew increasingly more belligerent and insulting, basically leading LN to conclude that Fissoa had become as unstable and dangerous as it was before we finally made peace several months ago—much more like an enemy on our borders than an ally and potential future fellow member of the Empire.
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His version of diplomacy would, by most standards, be considered pretty much the opposite.
Basically, LN invited Fissoa to join the Lurian Empire. Skyn replied that Fissoa's people wouldn't appreciate being called Lurian anything, due to the history there. LN thought about it, and decided, "OK, if Fissoa still distrusts the name "Luria" that much, it's probably not the right time to try bringing them into the Empire. Give them more time to see we're not totally unreasonable and dangerous, maybe fight alongside them against a common enemy for a while, and hopefully they'll come to see the name as something good."
Skyn's responses beyond that grew increasingly more belligerent and insulting, basically leading LN to conclude that Fissoa had become as unstable and dangerous as it was before we finally made peace several months ago—much more like an enemy on our borders than an ally and potential future fellow member of the Empire.
Oops :) I think Skyndarbau has failed at communicating, then.
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I figured it was just because that the condition for accepting Fissoa's surrender during the last war was that Skyndarbau was barred from leading Fissoa. It's so confusing, because Fissoa was THIS CLOSE to joining under Eldrond, and THIS CLOSE to joining under Duckmane, and now here we are. XD
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I figured it was just because that the condition for accepting Fissoa's surrender during the last war was that Skyndarbau was barred from leading Fissoa. It's so confusing, because Fissoa was THIS CLOSE to joining under Eldrond, and THIS CLOSE to joining under Duckmane, and now here we are. XD
Yeah, holy !@#$. Sky did get agreement from Luria to reascend the throne, though. And we would've joined, but Alice's tendency of breaking promises did no good :p And the name 'Lurian Empire' doesn't sit well because of it.
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:-*
You have infinitely more patience for that project than I did!
Patience is my sole virtue! And besides, it shouldn't be total !@#$ for much longer!
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In what way? I know he's being accused and all, but I'm not sure of what exactly...
In a "he didn't immediately jump to say yes to be annexed by the Lurian Empire after we told him we'd leave him to fight Falkirk alone because helping Fissoa is boring and we'd much rather be doing a thousand other things than help you" kind of whay.
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In a "he didn't immediately jump to say yes to be annexed by the Lurian Empire after we told him we'd leave him to fight Falkirk alone because helping Fissoa is boring and we'd much rather be doing a thousand other things than help you" kind of whay.
Being part of an empire doesn't need to be a reciprocal relationship. In most/all RL cases it was far from it.
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In a "he didn't immediately jump to say yes to be annexed by the Lurian Empire after we told him we'd leave him to fight Falkirk alone because helping Fissoa is boring and we'd much rather be doing a thousand other things than help you" kind of whay.
I'm going to comment once, to the above, in response to many other statements like it. And then I'm not going to comment on it again, and just give up on you. Do you have any idea how annoying it is to see someone repeatedly confirm the negative stereotypes that are attributed to them? Especially when you've tried to argue otherwise?
Literally nothing you just typed is true, and this is a common pattern. It's fine to set your character or your realm in opposition to someone or something else just for entertainment. It's okay to speculatively comment on IC events. It shouldn't be okay to repeatedly state things that are completely untethered from reality, in a way that blurs the line between what you—as a player—actually think and what you have your character do as a result. Especially when people are either providing evidence to the contrary, or are willing to patiently and honestly explain IC events. Some people like to talk about the game without !@#$ting up the forums and poisoning the atmosphere. Are you capable of at least trying? Because this kind of attitude infects other people and balkanizes an already small player base.
Take note, folks: if you want to "win" BattleMaster, the surest way is to just drive everyone away until you're the only one still playing.
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Literally nothing you just typed is true
It may not be literally true, but it fits with we have seen from D'Hara's viewpoint. IC, that's fine - misinformation is part of the game. There is an OOC truth out there, but I don't always know what it is and I don't always want to know.
What Anaris said isn't true either - Skyndarbau just said that's not at all what he was trying to communicate. What Anaris said is Alanna's point of view, just like Chénier communicates Machiavel's point of view.
Now, Skyndarbau said Anaris was wrong in a much less abrasive way, I'll grant you that. Still, be careful before you accuse people that way. There is a difference between being wrong and lying purposefully.
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I'm going to comment once, to the above, in response to many other statements like it. And then I'm not going to comment on it again, and just give up on you. Do you have any idea how annoying it is to see someone repeatedly confirm the negative stereotypes that are attributed to them? Especially when you've tried to argue otherwise?
Literally nothing you just typed is true, and this is a common pattern. It's fine to set your character or your realm in opposition to someone or something else just for entertainment. It's okay to speculatively comment on IC events. It shouldn't be okay to repeatedly state things that are completely untethered from reality, in a way that blurs the line between what you—as a player—actually think and what you have your character do as a result. Especially when people are either providing evidence to the contrary, or are willing to patiently and honestly explain IC events. Some people like to talk about the game without !@#$ting up the forums and poisoning the atmosphere. Are you capable of at least trying? Because this kind of attitude infects other people and balkanizes an already small player base.
Take note, folks: if you want to "win" BattleMaster, the surest way is to just drive everyone away until you're the only one still playing.
Which part, exactly?
Because being part of the Lurian Empire, but getting minority votes, is nothing short of annexation.
And your queen was calling off her troops many days ago, before any of the so-called provocation from Fissoa, and before any real answer on their part to your proposal.
...
Since then, morale has dropped significantly; few want to fight in this war for a number of reasons. First, there are Vesperian and Solarian holdings that need to be taken over, followed by a significant amount of region maintenance. Second, travel times are harsh by land, and our armies large and subsequently expensive by water. Third, and most importantly, Fissoa decided that it would be a superb idea to bring D'Hara along. Not a soul in my realm wants to fight next to D'Harans: it sickens them to see such despicable flags on our side of the battlefield.
...
Translation 1) We'd rather expand our borders than to help you finish off a weakened realm that may very well destroy you now that Aurvandil has pledged them their support. 2) You are a neighboring realm, but who cares if Astrum shipped troops down D'Hara to fight Aurvandil, Falkirk is WAY too far away! How could anyone expect us to fight a war over a distance lesser than most Dwilight wars could possibly be fought over!? 3) We'd rather you fight and die alone, because clearly it isn't worth getting as much help as possible to finish off a threat to your existance, and we value our own vendettas over your survival.
That letter was many days ago.
Still not convinced of my "translation"? How about...
...
To conclude, the reality of the situation is as follows:
Luria Nova cannot commit a large enough force because it has no motivation to do so.
While I have maintained the important of this campaign, my entire Military Council is completely against the idea.
My nobles want to stay home and take what holdings remain, while repairing those that desperately need the attention.
My nobles do not want to fight alongside D'Harans.
My nobles see no point to this war, beyond vague promises. If there was something there worth fighting for them—like the expansion of an Empire—coupled with time to regroup, recruit, and improve our military infrastructure, the second time round would be a huge success. Otherwise, Fissoa will have to make due with its own forces, or those from D'Hara, until such a time Luria Nova can march a significantly efficient and motivated force.
...
There, she said it in plainer words. Luria Nova won't help, because they don't want to. Who cares if Fissoa dies to Falkirk and Aurvandil? Starting another war with D'Hara is so much more fun.
But hey, go ahead and call me a liar all you like.
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What I said is, indeed, Alanna's point of view. But that doesn't mean that it's misrepresenting Luria's motives or views. It was a little incomplete, I'll admit.
Skyn brought up several different issues, and put forward some conditions for joining the Empire. Overall, they didn't sound too unreasonable to Alanna (or me), especially from the Fissoan perspective. It was the "we don't trust the name of Luria" thing that really got her, which is why she advised Alice that it was probably not wise at this time to try to bring them into the Empire. Not because we didn't like them, or because they wouldn't bow before us, or anything like that: They didn't want to be Lurian, and the Lurian Empire, even if it were to (somewhat absurdly, in Alanna's view) have a different name, would be fundamentally and unchangeably Lurian.
As for Chénier's drivel...yeah, Fissoa is smaller than Luria. With representative voting, that means they'd have fewer votes than LN in the hypothetical Imperial Council. Whodathunkit. What a shocker.
And...yeah, fighting a long-distance war is hard, both in terms of logistics and in terms of morale. It's not exactly a secret that Luria has been wanting to fight D'Hara since, well, forever. We were still discussing remaining military allies of Fissoa and sending a significant part of our armies to aid them against Falkirk. Until Skynarbau got insulting and rude.
And, finally, frankly, no, Luria doesn't care if Fissoa dies, at least not for Fissoa's sake. For most of our shared history, they have been a thorn in our side, and now they've got the same ruler they had before who was a major part of continuing the mutual distrust and hostility.
Why the hell should Luria care about them if he's just going to make snide jabs about "Alanna's influence" and plot against us even while negotiations about Fissoa joining the Empire are ongoing?
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As for Chénier's drivel...yeah, Fissoa is smaller than Luria. With representative voting, that means they'd have fewer votes than LN in the hypothetical Imperial Council. Whodathunkit. What a shocker.
But they should totally love the idea of having another realm decide everything for them, right, because you laid it out ahead of time and they'll still get to express their political incapacity with a futile vote?
And even if they'd join you, you wouldn't save them from Falkirk and Aurvandil.
I dunno, but if D'Hara came to Luria Nova and said "Hey, want to become a vassal of the Dragon Empire? It's totally cool, you'll totally be able to voice your opinion in the imperial council, but we won't have to listen to it. And you'd be forced to defend us if someone attacked, but we won't life a finger to save you if you need it.", then I doubt it would take very long at all before Alice wrote up another dumb letter about how D'Hara's being a provocateur again and being insulting and all you want. But it's totally cool if Luria Nova does it.
And if anyone points out the hypocrisy on the forums, they are just filthy liars. Right?
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But they should totally love the idea of having another realm decide everything for them, right, because you laid it out ahead of time and they'll still get to express their political incapacity with a futile vote?
First of all, that presupposes that Luria is all of one mind, and would always agree within itself on every matter that comes up for a vote. And, um...have you paid any attention to Lurian politics? Like, since its very beginning?
And furthermore, guess what? That wasn't a dealbreaker for them. They didn't reject our offer. They responded with reasonable conditions, one of which made us think hard, and we reconsidered the offer based on cultural grounds. If the discussion had ended there, everything would have remained completely amicable on both sides.
And even if they'd join you, you wouldn't save them from Falkirk and Aurvandil.
No...no, that's not true. Sorry. Just because you hate us doesn't make every bad thing you say about us true.
And if anyone points out the hypocrisy on the forums, they are just filthy liars. Right?
I'm...not even sure what that's meant to be about.
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No...no, that's not true. Sorry. Just because you hate us doesn't make every bad thing you say about us true.
Falkirk is a threat to Fissoa's survival, especially now that Aurvandil has crippled Barca and Terran, and Asylon is taking away any other threat it may have from the North. And yet, instead of stating how you'll blitz to finish Falkirk off while they are in their weakest state, Luria Nova just whines about how it doesn't like the war and will pull out. But hey, retaking these last two regions is much more pressing.
I'm...not even sure what that's meant to be about.
I'm going to comment once, to the above, in response to many other statements like it. And then I'm not going to comment on it again, and just give up on you. Do you have any idea how annoying it is to see someone repeatedly confirm the negative stereotypes that are attributed to them? Especially when you've tried to argue otherwise?
Literally nothing you just typed is true, and this is a common pattern. It's fine to set your character or your realm in opposition to someone or something else just for entertainment. It's okay to speculatively comment on IC events. It shouldn't be okay to repeatedly state things that are completely untethered from reality, in a way that blurs the line between what you—as a player—actually think and what you have your character do as a result. Especially when people are either providing evidence to the contrary, or are willing to patiently and honestly explain IC events. Some people like to talk about the game without !@#$ting up the forums and poisoning the atmosphere. Are you capable of at least trying? Because this kind of attitude infects other people and balkanizes an already small player base.
Take note, folks: if you want to "win" BattleMaster, the surest way is to just drive everyone away until you're the only one still playing.
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Falkirk is a threat to Fissoa's survival, especially now that Aurvandil has crippled Barca and Terran, and Asylon is taking away any other threat it may have from the North. And yet, instead of stating how you'll blitz to finish Falkirk off while they are in their weakest state, Luria Nova just whines about how it doesn't like the war and will pull out. But hey, retaking these last two regions is much more pressing.
Um...yeah, that's after we've decided not to have them in the Empire. You specifically said,
And even if they'd join you, you wouldn't save them from Falkirk and Aurvandil.
Even after we'd decided not to have them in the Empire, we were still talking about sending them military aid, until Skyndarbau decided to run off his mouth at Alice.
As for what Solari said...I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with in there. You are mean, paranoid, and prejudiced on the forums; you never admit you could be wrong; anyone who disagrees with your IC stances is obviously a bad person; and anyone who calls you out on it gets treated to snide sarcasm, but no actual addressing of the issues they raise.
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Jesus, what is it about Dwilight threads that make them so toxic? There's more vitriol here than in the entire rest of the forums.
Please stop, now, everyone. If this continues I'll start deleting posts and locking threads.
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Some people like to talk about the game without !@#$ting up the forums and poisoning the atmosphere. Are you capable of at least trying? Because this kind of attitude infects other people and balkanizes an already small player base.
Take note, folks: if you want to "win" BattleMaster, the surest way is to just drive everyone away until you're the only one still playing.
Balkanizing a player base... never heard of that before. +10 points for ingenious wording.
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Jesus, what is it about Dwilight threads that make them so toxic? There's more vitriol here than in the entire rest of the forums.
Please stop, now, everyone. If this continues I'll start deleting posts and locking threads.
I agree. I feel like for every 1 gem of a post there's 10 flames. Maybe DWI players need to do some team-building exercises or something. I'm imagining Arundel and Chenier doing a trust fall...
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I agree. I feel like for every 1 gem of a post there's 10 flames. Maybe DWI players need to do some team-building exercises or something. I'm imagining Arundel and Chenier doing a trust fall...
Tandaros confirmed for mindless beaurocrat
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Jesus, what is it about Dwilight threads that make them so toxic? There's more vitriol here than in the entire rest of the forums.
Please stop, now, everyone. If this continues I'll start deleting posts and locking threads.
Hay guyz whats going on here? 8)
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I think I've discovered it. Without Glaumring to act as a lightning rod, everyone in the dwilight forum starts going at it like starving rabid dogs. And I mean everyone, Solari I see you as the one starting this latest flamefest by basically attacking the person posting rather than the post, and Anaris you're not helping. Chenier's post regarding the fissoan reasoning wasn't all that bad, and apparently some people took it a bit personally.
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I've noticed the same, as soon as I leave its like a vacuum. I've decided not to post anymore here as much and nothing I post will be about anything but joking around if I do. Im done fighting. Im just gonna play BM like I've always played and have fun. This forum is toxic. Which is sad because I enjoy reading stuff about other realms here. Thats it though, im just going to read it from now on. Bye my dudes!
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And I mean everyone, Solari I see you as the one starting this latest flamefest by basically attacking the person posting rather than the post, and Anaris you're not helping.
I'd like to try to address this in a general sense, if I may, without trying to bring in specific personalities or histories.
Assuming, Gustav, that there are one or more individuals on a forum who can be consistently shown to make counterfactual, biased, and sometimes downright insulting claims, who are not visibly punished by the mods for these actions, what solution would you propose?
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Why is Dwilight so toxic?
Because it's the only continent worth caring about and getting heated over, because interesting and unexpected things still happen there. Also Beluaterra during invasions.
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What Anaris said isn't true either - Skyndarbau just said that's not at all what he was trying to communicate. What Anaris said is Alanna's point of view, just like Chénier communicates Machiavel's point of view.
If Dominic is always conveying only Machiavel's view, that's great. It would be wonderful to know that. Then, people (and I'm not the only one) wouldn't be laboring under the false perception that he's kind of a dick who takes a game way too seriously. I've personally asked him before to address that uncertainty, and he hasn't. It's only an issue because it's an extremely consistent behavior. Why wouldn't you want people to know something that repairs damage to your reputation?
In this game and on the forums, there are native speakers of at least 9 languages. It's hardly a medium that lends itself to conveying intent, context, or subtlety. Just as importantly, this is an OOC forum. It's natural for people to read what's posted here in that frame of reference. Making the smallest of efforts to point out when you're conveying your character's point of view and when you're not is helpful for everyone, especially yourself. This shouldn't even require stating. All you have to do is treat the players you're playing with like people.
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There, she said it in plainer words. Luria Nova won't help, because they don't want to. Who cares if Fissoa dies to Falkirk and Aurvandil? Starting another war with D'Hara is so much more fun.
You left out the conclusion: "My nobles see no point to this war, beyond vague promises. If there was something there worth fighting for them—like the expansion of an Empire—coupled with time to regroup, recruit, and improve our military infrastructure, the second time round would be a huge success. Otherwise, Fissoa will have to make due with its own forces, or those from D'Hara, until such a time Luria Nova can march a significantly efficient and motivated force."
Our nobles weren't rallying, nor were they marching together very well. I induced from the opinions of those nobles and my military council that our forces weren't sufficiently motivated to do all that much. In other words, I couldn't actually march an army, despite having tried to convince them and provide incentive. So yes, you are right by stating that Luria doesn't want to help. I was hoping the formation of an Empire would change that, but everything went downhill from there.
It doesn't really matter anymore. Fissoa is likely going to suffer the consequences, instead of D'Hara. Who knows? All of this is so exciting!
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You left out the conclusion: "My nobles see no point to this war, beyond vague promises. If there was something there worth fighting for them—like the expansion of an Empire—coupled with time to regroup, recruit, and improve our military infrastructure, the second time round would be a huge success. Otherwise, Fissoa will have to make due with its own forces, or those from D'Hara, until such a time Luria Nova can march a significantly efficient and motivated force."
Our nobles weren't rallying, nor were they marching together very well. I induced from the opinions of those nobles and my military council that our forces weren't sufficiently motivated to do all that much. In other words, I couldn't actually march an army, despite having tried to convince them and provide incentive. So yes, you are right by stating that Luria doesn't want to help. I was hoping the formation of an Empire would change that, but everything went downhill from there.
It doesn't really matter anymore. Fissoa is likely going to suffer the consequences, instead of D'Hara. Who knows? All of this is so exciting!
Perhaps, but you were being complete asses basically by having the war do a complete reset instead of just finishing off Madina. Once Madina is taken care of, the isle could be quickly dealt with by the Fissoans and you could go to war with D'hara just like you wanted.
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Perhaps, but you were being complete asses basically by having the war do a complete reset instead of just finishing off Madina. Once Madina is taken care of, the isle could be quickly dealt with by the Fissoans and you could go to war with D'hara just like you wanted.
No, once Madina is taken care of, Fissoa will be free to aid their ally D'Hara against Luria.
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No, once Madina is taken care of, Fissoa will be free to aid their ally D'Hara against Luria.
As I said on IRC, Fissoa already told us they were planning to join the Empire and just try to be neutral in the war.
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As I said on IRC, Fissoa already told us they were planning to join the Empire and just try to be neutral in the war.
Yeah...you don't seem to be getting what a poor communicator Skyndarbau is.
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And Rynn isn't exactly a help in that regards. :P
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I think the common thread is that big-time rulers seem to talk down to Rynn and Skyndarbau, so I can understand why they respond the way they do. Though D'Hara and Fissoa might not be as beastly as Luria Nova, they have equivalent pride.
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I think the common thread is that big-time rulers seem to talk down to Rynn and Skyndarbau, so I can understand why they respond the way they do. Though D'Hara and Fissoa might not be as beastly as Luria Nova, they have equivalent pride.
I know less about the beginning of Alice's relationship with Rynn. However, the conversation with Skyndarbau was going just fine until he started insulting us.
From all the messages Alice has passed to LN (and there are a number of them, both her side and his), there hasn't been any condescension or talking down of any kind: he just doesn't trust us, hates Alanna pretty hard, and...I dunno, thinks that he should insult us.
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And Rynn isn't exactly a help in that regards. :P
Yeah...you don't seem to be getting what a poor communicator Skyndarbau is.
I can't exactly speak for Skyanderbau, but I agree with Rynn. He is way to !@#$ing emotional in a bad way, and yet while he is all emotional he doesn't actually have an ounce of loyalty to any allies only specific characters. (Of course from my point of view.) Also, Anaris, feel like posting an insult on hear? I hear that he was insulting you guys but neither IG nor on here have I actually heard one mentioned.
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I can't exactly speak for Skyanderbau, but I agree with Rynn. He is way to !@#$ing emotional in a bad way, and yet while he is all emotional he doesn't actually have an ounce of loyalty to any allies only specific characters. (Of course from my point of view.) Also, Anaris, feel like posting an insult on hear? I hear that he was insulting you guys but neither IG nor on here have I actually heard one mentioned.
Let's keep messages IG.
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Yes please. If the original author wanted them posted, they could come do it themselves.
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Also, Anaris, feel like posting an insult on hear? I hear that he was insulting you guys but neither IG nor on here have I actually heard one mentioned.
To sum it up, Alice thought Skyndarbau was discrediting her realm's efforts, while smearing her with her own humility and shame. She had just apologized for not meeting expectations, so it was seen as an extremely disrespectful move. This and Skyndarbau's messages to Rynn provoked Alice, breaking the alliance.
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Why is Dwilight so toxic?
Because it's the only continent worth caring about and getting heated over, because interesting and unexpected things still happen there. Also Beluaterra during invasions.
This.
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Jeez. If I wasn't already so involved with FR, I'd be moving to Luria/D'Hara/Fissoa. So much angst!
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Jeez. If I wasn't already so involved with FR, I'd be moving to Luria/D'Hara/Fissoa. So much angst!
Yes! I'm loving it.
Okay, I just read the thread since page 71 or so, and though there's many things I would've commented on if I had followed this thread more closely, I won't do so now. Except for a few things. Firstly that I wouldn't mind to see any of Skyn's letters posted on here. Sure, I could do it myself, but I'd rather see Arundel point out the bits that she found offensive.
I'll also correct Anaris in saying that I don't intend for Skyn to hate Alanna, at least not to the degree he used to. He made her into a devil after having destroyed Myern and when she came back, but now Alice has explained Alanna was in favour of an Empire, he can look her straight into the eyes. Of course seeing Empress Alanna on the throne would still be ..problematic.
Lastly I'll clarify that Skyn indeed wanted to join the Empire, and would've stayed true to his word. Giving up D'Hara as an ally in order to join (by staying neutral in a Lurian war on D'Hara) was a pretty big thing, and as Anaris pointed out (and Alice) the guarantees he asked for were all reasonable.
Unfortunately the purely semantic problem Fissoa had with Lurian Empire kind of blew up in our face. Had it been called Empire of the Rising Sun, or whatever, Skyn would've been totally down.
Spoilerish alert(?): How things progress from here is still uncertain, but I've contacted Erik (Arundel player) and some others to discuss a possible outcome that would allow for an interesting narrative, and also reconcile my RL plans with BM.
More to come!
PS: Yeah, Skyndarbau hasn't been the best communicator, nor very tactful. But he's always been kind of blunt, especially to those he respects. That he attacked Alice was mostly because of his hurt pride, I suppose. Or mine :) And the letters he sends are sometimes overly rethoric/bombastic, but that's the main reason I like to write them. Form over content, ftw.
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Why is Dwilight so toxic?
Because it's the only continent worth caring about and getting heated over, because interesting and unexpected things still happen there. Also Beluaterra during invasions.
+1
I can't exactly speak for Skyanderbau, but I agree with Rynn. He is way to !@#$ing emotional in a bad way, and yet while he is all emotional he doesn't actually have an ounce of loyalty to any allies only specific characters.
Ouch. I would argue that in this game, you only get to know realms through specific characters. He communicates fine with the House of Lords and responds promptly when other rulers or whatever write to him so I'm not sure what you're talking about. His loyalty is earned when people (individuals or realms) go out of their way to help D'Hara. That's how I've been RPing him. I won't deny he has strong bonds with individuals. But He stuck by Vesperi long after he should have because of what they did. And you can def expect him to stick by the Farronites too. Rynn and Sky were butting heads almost as much as he and Alice, yet Rynn skipped his honeymoon to personally help out the Dragons and kept slogging through Madina for a month afterwards. You keep calling Rynn out for things you don't agree with OOC. Nothing's stopping Marco from running for Prime Minister.
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I'll tell you I've always liked Rynn. He feels real.
And I like Alice too please don't kill me, Luria
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Thanks! And If I did not mention before (bc pretty much only Fissoa people got to see it) Rynn, Alice, and Sky were all in the same room together. It was a pretty fine RP actually. Alice and Sky snubbed the hell out of Rynn, who left in a huff. Sky dipped out on the prank of a century. Fun stuff.
Nobody died.
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Lastly I'll clarify that Skyn indeed wanted to join the Empire, and would've stayed true to his word. Giving up D'Hara as an ally in order to join (by staying neutral in a Lurian war on D'Hara) was a pretty big thing, and as Anaris pointed out (and Alice) the guarantees he asked for were all reasonable.
Unfortunately the purely semantic problem Fissoa had with Lurian Empire kind of blew up in our face. Had it been called Empire of the Rising Sun, or whatever, Skyn would've been totally down.
I don't think you quite understand just how important the name "Lurian Empire" is to Luria in general, and Alanna in particular.
And even without the name, the notion that any Empire with Luria as part of its founding could be anything but Lurian is (at least to them) absurd.
So if Fissoa has a problem with the name Luria, there's no point in trying to make an Empire with them, because that's really what it's all about. There's no separating what Luria is from its name.
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I don't think you quite understand just how important the name "Lurian Empire" is to Luria in general, and Alanna in particular.
And even without the name, the notion that any Empire with Luria as part of its founding could be anything but Lurian is (at least to them) absurd.
So if Fissoa has a problem with the name Luria, there's no point in trying to make an Empire with them, because that's really what it's all about. There's no separating what Luria is from its name.
It's too bad Luria isn't able to come to a compromise. I can understand where Alanna is coming from, but surely some Lurians are more pragmatic?
Saying you want Fissoa as a partner but denying it's cultural heritage won't yield much results. Hell, even Pianese or Askileon Empire would be more or less acceptable.
But perhaps we differ on the idea of empire itself. Skyn sees it more as a confederation, a structure above both Luria Nova and Fissoa. Perhaps you just see Fissoa as vassals.
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It's too bad Luria isn't able to come to a compromise. I can understand where Alanna is coming from, but surely some Lurians are more pragmatic?
Saying you want Fissoa as a partner but denying it's cultural heritage won't yield much results. Hell, even Pianese or Askileon Empire would be more or less acceptable.
But perhaps we differ on the idea of empire itself. Skyn sees it more as a confederation, a structure above both Luria Nova and Fissoa. Perhaps you just see Fissoa as vassals.
Well, to address your second point first, the Empire is more or less the grouping together of realms with a hierarchy partially above the rulers of the realms, which can, to some extent, dictate their, and their realms', actions.
As for the other...I think you may have misunderstood the nature of the situation. This isn't Luria coming to Fissoa and saying, "Hey, why don't you and we get together and form an Empire, and call it the Lurian Empire?"
This is Luria Nova, sole current member of the Lurian Empire (which is, in fact, already making preliminary preparations to eventually split apart again, if all goes well, into multiple Lurian realms, united under the Imperial banner), asking Fissoa if it wants to join the Lurian Empire, which has existed, in one form or another, for some time now.
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Well, to address your second point first, the Empire is more or less the grouping together of realms with a hierarchy partially above the rulers of the realms, which can, to some extent, dictate their, and their realms', actions.
As for the other...I think you may have misunderstood the nature of the situation. This isn't Luria coming to Fissoa and saying, "Hey, why don't you and we get together and form an Empire, and call it the Lurian Empire?"
This is Luria Nova, sole current member of the Lurian Empire (which is, in fact, already making preliminary preparations to eventually split apart again, if all goes well, into multiple Lurian realms, united under the Imperial banner), asking Fissoa if it wants to join the Lurian Empire, which has existed, in one form or another, for some time now.
Ah. Well Luria Nova has never presented itself to us as an Empire, nor announced it's intention to split up again. Things might have gone differently if you had.
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We gonna see GDF and Dhara destroyed or what?
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We gonna see GDF and Dhara destroyed or what?
Not sure. I think many of the players involved prefer to see smaller scale conflicts, instead of destroying realms totally (Aurvandil/Falkirk might be an exception to this). A reason why things are so heated today is because D'Hara, the Lurias and Fissoa share a long history.
I wouldn't want any of these three realms to disappear, but for more reasons that just attachment. They continue to provide a stimulating narrative, and as long as that's the case, I wouldn't want to see them go.
Which is also the reason I wouldn't mind Aurvandil to perish completely. Other than Sextus Invictus and Allomere's letters I have seen no contributions since Mendicant got busted.
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Not sure. I think many of the players involved prefer to see smaller scale conflicts, instead of destroying realms totally (Aurvandil/Falkirk might be an exception to this). A reason why things are so heated today is because D'Hara, the Lurias and Fissoa share a long history.
I wouldn't want any of these three realms to disappear, but for more reasons that just attachment. They continue to provide a stimulating narrative, and as long as that's the case, I wouldn't want to see them go.
Which is also the reason I wouldn't mind Aurvandil to perish completely. Other than Sextus Invictus and Allomere's letters I have seen no contributions since Mendicant got busted.
QFT, GG
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+1Ouch. I would argue that in this game, you only get to know realms through specific characters. He communicates fine with the House of Lords and responds promptly when other rulers or whatever write to him so I'm not sure what you're talking about. His loyalty is earned when people (individuals or realms) go out of their way to help D'Hara. That's how I've been RPing him. I won't deny he has strong bonds with individuals. But He stuck by Vesperi long after he should have because of what they did. And you can def expect him to stick by the Farronites too. Rynn and Sky were butting heads almost as much as he and Alice, yet Rynn skipped his honeymoon to personally help out the Dragons and kept slogging through Madina for a month afterwards. You keep calling Rynn out for things you don't agree with OOC. Nothing's stopping Marco from running for Prime Minister.
Btw, my apologies on two counts. One if I seemed like I was attacking you. Two, it was definitely an overstatement on my part. As to the allies, perhaps only allies that we have worked well with since you have joined (Rynn has been trying to abandon the moot forever). To the emotional part, less so with friends/neutral parties but Rynn always has hissy fits with Alice and Mendicant/Allomere. Also, that is quite a bit true on diplomacy being founded upon individuals generally but real alliances/federations are not. On AT, Carelia is allied with Caergoth and Ottar not really Tara, because with Tara we are just friends with their ruler, but with Caergoth we have a general bond with the realm.
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Btw, my apologies on two counts. One if I seemed like I was attacking you. Two, it was definitely an overstatement on my part. As to the allies, perhaps only allies that we have worked well with since you have joined (Rynn has been trying to abandon the moot forever). To the emotional part, less so with friends/neutral parties but Rynn always has hissy fits with Alice and Mendicant/Allomere. Also, that is quite a bit true on diplomacy being founded upon individuals generally but real alliances/federations are not. On AT, Carelia is allied with Caergoth and Ottar not really Tara, because with Tara we are just friends with their ruler, but with Caergoth we have a general bond with the realm.
No Worries. Rynn does get emotional. It's what has made him a lot of friends and a lot of enemies. But I also hope that it keeps things interesting. I imagine a lot of things will change when Rynn is no longer on the world stage. Looking forward to it, actually. Being PM is not at all easy.
Fun, definitely fun. But not easy.
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No Worries. Rynn does get emotional. It's what has made him a lot of friends and a lot of enemies. But I also hope that it keeps things interesting. I imagine a lot of things will change when Rynn is no longer on the world stage. Looking forward to it, actually. Being PM is not at all easy.
Fun, definitely fun. But not easy.
It definitely keeps things interesting/adds to the game. Just doesn't fit with the conservative D'harans. As to your suggestion that I run for PM, I have considered it, but I need to do some more politicking. Recall that one letter I sent regarding honor that seemed like I was totally trashtalking Rynn, but at the end I basically just blamed D'harans in general? I sent that to trashtalk Rynn, and be able to possibly bring it up during election season if I decided to run for PM.
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It definitely keeps things interesting/adds to the game. Just doesn't fit with the conservative D'harans. As to your suggestion that I run for PM, I have considered it, but I need to do some more politicking. Recall that one letter I sent regarding honor that seemed like I was totally trashtalking Rynn, but at the end I basically just blamed D'harans in general? I sent that to trashtalk Rynn, and be able to possibly bring it up during election season if I decided to run for PM.
Your D'Haran conversation is all cute and fuzzy and stuff, but I'm going to have to stop you right there - this is Luria's thread, after all.
To save you the trouble, Penchant, there won't be a next D'Haran election for PM. Why? For reasons I don't care to disclose.
I'll tell you I've always liked Rynn. He feels real.
And I like Alice too please don't kill me, Luria
He feels real? You should touch Alice sometime; she feels real too. Maybe before the duel, when Alice offers you the kiss of death? Maybe after, when her sword pierces that old geezer's heart from your chest? Who knows? This is all so very exciting!
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Anyone else still wondering how a blind woman is going to duel?
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Not the blind woman.
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Your D'Haran conversation is all cute and fuzzy and stuff, but I'm going to have to stop you right there - this is Luria's thread, after all.
To save you the trouble, Penchant, there won't be a next D'Haran election for PM. Why? For reasons I don't care to disclose.
I wish Luria Nova would make up its mind. Is D'Hara Lurian or isn't it?
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I can't make it on a couple of high-drama skirmishes once or twice a year! You are too much for me, D'Hara. I wish I knew how to quit you!
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I wish Luria Nova would make up its mind. Is D'Hara Lurian or isn't it?
The stance hasn't changed. D'hara illegally occupies Lurian lands. In short:
D'hara is not Lurian. Their lands are.
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Well, from the last census conducted by the ever-energetic Ismail and later events, it seems that a lot of our people (the majority, now) are from one of the Lurias. Even Rynn was born in the Desert of Silhouettes, a region claimed by Luria.
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Being born in lands that are Lurian does not make you a Lurian.
It's far more than just a defining word based on location.
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It is less of a nationality, and more of a culture.
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It is less of a nationality, and more of a culture.
Bitter, divisive lords, fractious politics, and ambiguous religious identity with rising Astroist presence. Inability to unite for offensive actions. Sui generis government style with an inherited monarchy, but also, major focii of power elsewhere, especially dukes. Tendency to experience division and breakup on ducal lines. Founded starving, weak colony realm assisted by allies. Obsessed with ancient feuds and land claims.
Who am I describing?
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Being born in lands that are Lurian does not make you a Lurian.
It's far more than just a defining word based on location.
It is less of a nationality, and more of a culture.
So... the location of D'Hara is not Lurian by culture, and therefore it is not Lurian.
How are D'Hara lands Lurian if the Lurian culture (which identifies 'Lurian', according to Stabbity) is not present in those lands?
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So... the location of D'Hara is not Lurian by culture, and therefore it is not Lurian.
How are D'Hara lands Lurian if the Lurian culture (which identifies 'Lurian', according to Stabbity) is not present in those lands?
Land doesn't have culture. People have culture.
The claim on D'Hara's lands is not based on a claim of shared culture, but a claim of chain of ownership.
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Land doesn't have culture. People have culture.
The claim on D'Hara's lands is not based on a claim of shared culture, but a claim of chain of ownership.
This claim is so imaginative it's cute, like My Little Pony or Adventure Time or something.
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Bitter, divisive lords, fractious politics, and ambiguous religious identity with rising Astroist presence. Inability to unite for offensive actions. Sui generis government style with an inherited monarchy, but also, major focii of power elsewhere, especially dukes. Tendency to experience division and breakup on ducal lines. Founded starving, weak colony realm assisted by allies. Obsessed with ancient feuds and land claims.
Who am I describing?
Bingo.
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a claim of chain of ownership.
Which, let's be clear, never existed. No Lurian extant today has ever held any land in D'Hara, nor are any descended from or related to anyone who held land in D'Hara, and the "original" claim is basically a fiction as well.
It's a neat fiction that I am glad ya'll came up with because it adds some real spice to the game.
But ya'll have as much claim to D'Hara as the Moot has to Candiels: it'd be a sweet addition to our territory and we can confabulate some reasons why it Kinda Makes Sense for us to get it, and we can even dig up a quasi-legal piece of paper here or there. But it's basically just a baseless assetrion we're making.
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Which, let's be clear, never existed. No Lurian extant today has ever held any land in D'Hara, nor are any descended from or related to anyone who held land in D'Hara, and the "original" claim is basically a fiction as well.
It's a neat fiction that I am glad ya'll came up with because it adds some real spice to the game.
But ya'll have as much claim to D'Hara as the Moot has to Candiels: it'd be a sweet addition to our territory and we can confabulate some reasons why it Kinda Makes Sense for us to get it, and we can even dig up a quasi-legal piece of paper here or there. But it's basically just a baseless assetrion we're making.
Luria vehemently denies any contention that its claim on D'Hara is spurious.
;D
(Actually, I was a little surprised when I first heard about it, too; I can't take credit, but I'm not sure whether it was Arundel, Solari, ^ban^, or some combination...)
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Which, let's be clear, never existed. No Lurian extant today has ever held any land in D'Hara, nor are any descended from or related to anyone who held land in D'Hara, and the "original" claim is basically a fiction as well.
It's a neat fiction that I am glad ya'll came up with because it adds some real spice to the game.
But ya'll have as much claim to D'Hara as the Moot has to Candiels: it'd be a sweet addition to our territory and we can confabulate some reasons why it Kinda Makes Sense for us to get it, and we can even dig up a quasi-legal piece of paper here or there. But it's basically just a baseless assetrion we're making.
Actually Jonsu has held not just one D'haran region but two. Lands please.
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Actually Jonsu has held not just one D'haran region but two. Lands please.
Sure, let's exchange those for every region in Luria Nova that was once held by a D'Haran. Seems like a fair trade. :P
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Bazinga!
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Sure, let's exchange those for every region in Luria Nova that was once held by a D'Haran. Seems like a fair trade. :P
Remember that time D'hara got lippy, then got cornered in a back ally by Luria Nova, and D'hara thought it could get the girl by standing up and fighting, until Luria Nova pulled a switchblade out of its leather jacket?
No? You will.
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Actually Jonsu has held not just one D'haran region but two. Lands please.
If we get that technical, since Bowie was the first Duke of Sallowtown does that mean Swordfell has claims to the Sallowsite Cape?
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If we get that technical, since Bowie was the first Duke of Sallowtown does that mean Swordfell has claims to the Sallowsite Cape?
If you have the cajones and military to back it up.
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Which, let's be clear, never existed. No Lurian extant today has ever held any land in D'Hara, nor are any descended from or related to anyone who held land in D'Hara, and the "original" claim is basically a fiction as well.
It's a neat fiction that I am glad ya'll came up with because it adds some real spice to the game.
But ya'll have as much claim to D'Hara as the Moot has to Candiels: it'd be a sweet addition to our territory and we can confabulate some reasons why it Kinda Makes Sense for us to get it, and we can even dig up a quasi-legal piece of paper here or there. But it's basically just a baseless assetrion we're making.
Luria's claim *at it's worst* is AT LEAST equal to D'Hara's claim to the D'Haran isles. Luria's claim is based upon having been the first realm to send a colony expedition to the lands currently held by D'hara. This was an official colony of Luria. The colony failed, but it established a claim to the lands.
Other land claims come from Luria's negotiated split of land claims with Morek as two of the founding realms of Dwilight. The only lands that Luria no longer claims from those treaties are the ones they have formally given up in treaties through other negotiations since then.
If D'Hara's greatest claim to the D'haran isles is that they colonized them, then they can't claim any greater right to it than Luria. Especially because it came after Luria laid claim to it.
The simple fact of the matter is that Luria was one of the founding lands of Dwilight and through such was able to lay claim to many more lands than it controlled or was even remotely able to control at the time. Those claims have been reduced over time closer to what they can physically control, but original claims don't just disappear. D'Hara wasn't a founding realm of Dwilight. So, while Luria's claims have descended from Monarch to Monarch through the Lurian Empire, D'Hara can't claim the same.
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If we get that technical, since Bowie was the first Duke of Sallowtown does that mean Swordfell has claims to the Sallowsite Cape?
If you want to get technical, since Swordfell was born on a Guile's breast, doesn't that mean anything held by Swordfell is technically held by a Lurian? Because God knows Bowie wasn't the founder of the Kingdom, nor ever a Duke nearby.
Sevastian on the other hand...Has held two crowns, and held his Duchy for damn near a full RL year...Hmmmmm...
To quote Stabbity, (who just so happens to be mah wife IG)
"Lands, please."
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If you want to get technical, since Swordfell was born on a Guile's breast, doesn't that mean anything held by Swordfell is technically held by a Lurian? Because God knows Bowie wasn't the founder of the Kingdom, nor ever a Duke nearby.
Sevastian on the other hand...Has held two crowns, and held his Duchy for damn near a full RL year...Hmmmmm...
To quote Stabbity, (who just so happens to be mah wife IG)
"Lands, please."
If you want to go that far, Bowie was the Duke of Flowrestown and ruler of Aquilegia (for a day) years before Sevastian ever set foot in Central Toprak. I have more seeds spread across this part of Toprak than anywhere else.
May I say, bam.
Not to mention that Swordfell is a cooperative effort by a great many more nobles than just Bowie.
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Pfft, we all know the monsters and undead have the best legal land claims. We are just lucky enough that they can't read.
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Shhhhhhhh
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Hahahaha, Duke of Flowrestown? Lulz.
Sevastian may not have been in Aquilegia, but I sure as hell was. Your rulership for a day is irrelevant.
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Swordfell is cooperative? Now I have ironclad proof that Bowie is insane!
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Swordfell is cooperative? Now I have ironclad proof that Bowie is insane!
+1
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Luria vehemently denies any contention that its claim on D'Hara is spurious.
;D
(Actually, I was a little surprised when I first heard about it, too; I can't take credit, but I'm not sure whether it was Arundel, Solari, ^ban^, or some combination...)
Bedwyr and before, IIRC. Like the many other evil schemes attributed to me, I am only a passenger on this crazy train. Enjoying the ride, though. :D
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(ridiculous fallacious arguments)
D'Hara wasn't a founding realm of Dwilight. So, while Luria's claims have descended from Monarch to Monarch through the Lurian Empire, D'Hara can't claim the same.
Luria Nova wasn't around either. Nor was the "Lurian Empire". Fact is, a bunch of realms have succeeded each other in "Lurian" lands, much more so than D'Hara, which is the direct successor to Shadovar, the secession really being just a civil war as the millions the Lurias have had. If D'Hara has no claims from Shadovar, then Luria Nova has no claims from Pian en Luries. To say anything else is extreme hypocrisy.
In addition, much of D'Hara was annexed from Melodia, which was never in the slightest Lurian. Almost all of D'Hara was never Lurian in any way.
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If D'Hara has no claims from Shadovar, then Luria Nova has no claims from Pian en Luries. To say anything else is extreme hypocrisy.
D'Hara ABSOLUTELY has claims from Shadovar.
What you seem to have forgotten is that Shadovar was a colony of Pian en Luries. Therefore, Shadovar's claims are inherently Lurian.
Luria Nova wasn't around either. Nor was the "Lurian Empire". Fact is, a bunch of realms have succeeded each other in "Lurian" lands, much more so than D'Hara, which is the direct successor to Shadovar, the secession really being just a civil war as the millions the Lurias have had.
The first Lurian Empire was created during the days of Pian en Luries. Each subsequent monarch of the Lurian realms has inherited all claims of the Lurian realms as case in point in winnings of their successful rebellions and successions. Most of this is clearly roleplayed. Such that our current Monarch is the designated Queen of Luria Vesperi and Luria Nova. She has designated leadership of Pian en Luries back to its former ruler, Duchess Alanna. Queen Alice then has all old claims of the Lurian realms either directly or through those who have sworn fealty to her.
Finally, as to the Shadovar - D'Haran conflict. One of the gripes is that the foundation of D'Hara was a clear "loss" of control of the isles from Lurian leadership to non-Lurian leadership. Thus, the simple foundation of D'Hara was an attack upon Lurian sovereignty of the isles as the creation of D'Hara destroyed a Lurian colony.
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D'Hara ABSOLUTELY has claims from Shadovar.
What you seem to have forgotten is that Shadovar was a colony of Pian en Luries. Therefore, Shadovar's claims are inherently Lurian.
The question is whether because Shadovar was a colony of Pain en Luries the claims revert back to Luria or whether they pass to D'Hara as the legitimate successor state. So while it's understandable where the current Lurian claim comes from, it's a far stretch from being the only valid interpretation.
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Clearly, the gods will favor the one with the right claim. Through war, of course.
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The question is whether because Shadovar was a colony of Pain en Luries the claims revert back to Luria or whether they pass to D'Hara as the legitimate successor state. So while it's understandable where the current Lurian claim comes from, it's a far stretch from being the only valid interpretation.
I never said that Luria's claim to the isles is uncontested. The only thing I am trying to assert is that Luria has a legitimate means to make such a claim. If D'Hara wants to contest it, through much the same argument that Luria would make against them, they can, but essentially it comes down to being able to assert one's claim through war against the other. Luria has never been forced to formally cede that claim to another realm, because Luria has never lost a war to a non-lurian entity.
So only war can really settle the question.
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I'm going to chime in here because why not?
2008-03-11 Pian en Luries - Alanna Anaris elected queen.
2008-03-16 Everguard - Fisc Arylon elected High King
2008-03-16 Madina - City of Paisly taken over.
2008-03-25 Pian en Luries - City of Port Nebel taken over.
2008-04-15 Pian en Luries - Duke Edelstein Greneburie secedes the Duchy of Port Nebel forming the Tyranny of Shadovar.
2008-09-16 Shadovar - Duchess Katayanna Ogren secedes the city of Port Raviel to form the realm of D'Hara.
So we can reasonably assume/claim that Shadovar controlled the Tomb islands at the time of D'Hara's foundation (which was created by a Lurian, no less. Check Katayanna's page if you wanna make sure.) I understand they had monster problems and lost some territories around Nebel, but not to Melodia.
Alanna was Queen of Pian en Luries when Edelstein created the colony of Shadovar. Since it was a sanctioned colony by Pian en Luries, Alanna got a claim. That's how it works. If my realm takes over some land, and you secede that land with permission to make a colony, I still get a claim.
Guess what guys? Alanna's alive. That's Luria's claim Luria will press her claim. It's not about inheritors, the realm of PeL, or anything like that. We've got the first person to send another person out there. Nothing was there (including people with claims) beforehand.
Also
2008-08-04 Pian en Luries - Completes successful colony takeover of Qubel Lighthouse to form Porto Lancia.
Alanna's got that covered to.
But yeah, war will decide the victor. Yay!
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Anyone else still wondering how a blind woman is going to duel?
Yes.
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Yes.
I'm hoping its an insane twist, where Alice was never blind and had faked blinding herself for just such an occasion.
Now that would be a Lurian move.
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Nah, according to RP she's actually blind.
A man of progressing age who has fainted for no reason against a young lass who can't see. Neither of them with substantial swordfighting skill. Will be interesting :)
I do hope Skyn not to totally bite the dust, then again, his death would relieve him of the shame, I guess.
Regarding the other discussion: claims are so overrated, especially between enemies. If Luria thinks it's cause is just, declare war on D'Hara, send out a reason to other Rulers and see who backs you up. And if foreign support is irrelevant, so are claims.
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if foreign support is irrelevant, so are claims.
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If D'Hara has no claims from Shadovar, then Luria Nova has no claims from Pian en Luries. To say anything else is extreme hypocrisy.
Well of course it's hypocrisy. You do understand that all folks are doing is laying out the ridiculously complicated rationale that some characters have for their claims, right? Nothing more.
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Bowie put a hundred gold bet on Queen Alice to win. Any takers?
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Rynn and Khari are on their way to visit him...before the end.
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Who, Skyn?
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Yup
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Okay, problem with this claims logic:
1. Shadovar was founded by Pian en Luries, yes, and D'Hara secede from Shadovar. But the issue here is that backing a colony does not in any sense confer claim. Madina never had claim to Golden Farrow. Aurvandil has no claim to Falkirk. That's the whole point of a COLONY, it's a SEPARATE legal entity.
2. Furthermore, supra-national entities like the Lurian Empire did not exist until recently: as such, they cannot have received claims that originated on a trans-national basis prior to their existence. You cannot create an entity then assert that you magically got claims from decades earlier. Well, you can: but it's smoke and mirrors completely without substance.
3. Even if you did have claim under Shadovar, no heir of Shadovar-contra-D'Hara exists. Find me a descendant of Shadovar's rulers who can press the claim, a direct descendant with some kind of real claim. Simply because you were bros with a realm doesn't mean you are the lagl inheritor of their rights and liabilities.
4. Luria Nova has engaged in treaties with D'Hara while D'hara held Qubel Lighthouse and/or Port Raviel as its capital city. Ask the Palestinian Authority what happens to your legal standing when you sign agreements with another country while they hold your land: they gain legal sovereigntyu (hence why formal, non-shuttle agreements between the PLA and Israel are rare: Israel doesn't want to grant them de facto statehood, and PLA doesn't want to grant de jure control of Jerusalem). Lurian realms have in fact engaged in numerous instances of direct diplomacy and agreement and treaty with D'Hara, and, under terms of estoppel, cannot cease this service once rendered. Once you sign away Qubel and Raviel by signing establishing treaties with the owners of Qubel and Raviel, you recognize the transfer. Admittedly the case is not as solid as if you had directly signed them away, and Luria's frequent protestations against D'Hara serve as notice of dispute in legal terms, but there's another issue....
5. Effective sovereignty can create de jure sovereignty under international law. See the Pedra Brance case for details (specifically relating to island claims, as it happens). This idea is in fact an extension of an earlier medieval concept that if you perform the actions of a soveriegn and nobody else performs the actions of a sovereign for a long time, then you are in fact a sovereign.
6. Legally, it is not clear that Luria Nova has inherited Pian en Luries' claims. The persons, yes, but Lurian monarchy, you have asserted, is an institutional, not personal, title. As such, Alanna has no claim to Shadovar due to being monarch: that was a de jure claim of the Pianian monarchy, not Alanna. Unless she retains the title Queen of Pian en Luries, she can't make that claim. If the Pianian monarchy is institutional, the demise of Pian en Luries would suggest that monarchy is gone, and has been replaced by Novan monarchy. You may assert that you are continuing Pianian monarchy, but the circumstances of succession to Pian en Luries do not lend credibility to this (unlike Solaria, where the Novan monarchy is the right pressor of claims given their representation of Malus Solari, who holds those claims personally rather than institutionally).
For these reasons, Luria Nova has no "claim" in any legal sense, or, at the very most, an extraordinarily weak claim.
So why does D'Hara have claim?
1. Effective sovereignty as noted above. D'hara has controlled the islands for way long enough.
2. Recognition by all sovereign states. No state in Dwilight has failed to recognize D'Hara as sovereign of the isles. Even Luria Nova has done that.
3. Secession by Katayanna Ogren was not protested by Luria Nova at the time, I believe, and certainly did not get material opposition. Lack of complaint is consent in international law, ESPECIALLY regarding land claims (see Senkoku/Diaoyu island dispute for another example of how this plays out).
4. Even if Pian en Luries had some macro-claim to the islands from colonization, Lurian practice is such that secession is legitimately claim-conferring providing the seceder is ballsy and Very Lurian. Katayanna Ogren was indisputably Lurian and very ballsy. This secession, by virtue of being basically the normal practice of politics within Lurian cultures, cannot be regarded as splitting a claim. Rather, it was an "in-region" dispute between Lurian contender. The winner was a Lurian, Katayanna Ogren. She established a monarchy which has managed a clear succession to the present day. Under Lurian law, under the Lurian empire, even if Luria DOES HAVE CLAIM, there IS a legitimate "Lurian monarch" of the Tomb Islands. His name is Machiavel Chénier. At no point has Luria Nova ever made any argument that the established office of the Dragon King is illegitimate, and Luria Nova has never renounced Katayanna Ogren's Lurian-ness. By now, again under estoppel and the presence of ongoing formal dispute, such renunciation would be worthless.
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Additional things Luria Nova could do (or could have done) to legally undermine D'hara's claim, aside from their currently extant practices of protest and denial of formal recognition:
1. Denounce the office of the Dragon King
2. Appoint a different person Dragon King
3. Appoint shadow-dukes and shadow-lords
4. Send priests, courtiers, and traders to carry out surveys, censuses, and administrative tasks
5. Refuse to ever negotiate directly with D'Hara
6. Welcome D'Hara into the Lurian Empire, then demand rights of revocation
7. Include in negotiations that Luria Nova will only sign peace treaties in the Capital of D'Hara, defined as Paisly, no matter D'Hara's claims to the contrary
INTERNATIONAL LAWYER'D.
PS- If it seems like I've spent to much time thinking about this, it's because my graduation thesis was about island claim law and the status of several ongoing land claim disputes.
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Sidenote: I think a Lurian shadow-government of the Tomb Islands would be fantastic.
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Luria Nova has in fact done several of those things. The Dragon King has been denounced, and Luria has declared its own monarch. Furthermore, why would anyone declare Paisly D'hara's de jure capital? Luria would recognize it as Port Nebel. Furthermore, Alanna Anaris has just as much, if not more claim on D'haran lands than the majority of the Nobility of D'hara. She conquered it, the Monarch of Shadovar passed without issue, and therefore, the conquering monarch would have claim by rights of inheritance. Luria may not exercise de facto control, but in the BM universe where the international law you cite has no relevance because it does not exist, it still exercises a de jure claim through right of conquest. Furthermore, if you look at the diplomatic dealings, that doesn't necessarily mean a nation gives up all claim on the lands the entity it is dealing with holds. North Korea and South Korea hold to an armistice, and both will tell you that the other half of Korea is rightfully theirs and both are to a degree, correct in this.
A lurian shadow government is an interesting idea...
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I don't believe that Luria Nova has asserted that it has a direct claim on the lands—merely that Luria does.
A Lurian realm held it before, and was usurped illegally by Lurian rebels. Thus, D'Hara's very existence is an affront to Luria, and it is illegally occupying lands that were Luria's since long ago.
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Luria Nova has in fact done several of those things. The Dragon King has been denounced
When?
, and Luria has declared its own monarch.
Who?
Furthermore, why would anyone declare Paisly D'hara's de jure capital? Luria would recognize it as Port Nebel.
I thought Nebel was one of the contested claims?
Furthermore, Alanna Anaris has just as much, if not more claim on D'haran lands than the majority of the Nobility of D'hara. She conquered it, the Monarch of Shadovar passed without issue, and therefore, the conquering monarch would have claim by rights of inheritance.
Your "therefore" does not follow. In what world of absurd law does a person dying confer claims, not on a descending heir (such as a son, designee, or local claimant) but back up the hierarchy? Only in very, very modern non-feudal systems where we are post-absolutism. No, claims never, ever, ever confer UP the hierarchy UNLESS no other claimants exist. And even then, generally without the lands associated with the claims, they evaporated in a generation or two.
Luria may not exercise de facto control, but in the BM universe where the international law you cite has no relevance because it does not exist, it still exercises a de jure claim through right of conquest.
Luria does not exist. Do you mean Luria Nova conquered D'Hara? That is false. Do you mean Pian en luries conquered the tomb islands? That is true: but Pian en Luries does not exist and, again, my understanding is that nobody has claimed the title of Monarch of Pian en Luries for some time. If you want to claim "right of conquest" grants de jure claim (it doesn't: Medieval scholars repudiated right of conquest and hated the idea), then D'Hara has doubly strong claims, because they've conquered all of their lands multiple times from rogues and secessionists.
Furthermore, if you look at the diplomatic dealings, that doesn't necessarily mean a nation gives up all claim on the lands the entity it is dealing with holds. North Korea and South Korea hold to an armistice, and both will tell you that the other half of Korea is rightfully theirs and both are to a degree, correct in this.
Armistice. ARMISTICE. Ever occur to you why it's an ARMISTICE? D'hara doesn't have armistices. Ya'll done gone and fought alongside them. You've had a whole history of various formal wars, treaties, alliances, and peaces since D'Hara's creation.
You are 100% right that I'm talking about RL ideas here. If you want to argue that BM claimancy and legal ideas are totally different from RL ones, that's fine. But insofar as we're talking about feudal/medieval ideas, insofar as we're talking about these terms as they mean anywhere in the RL world, I'm right: Luria Nova's claim is tenuous at best, most likely non-existent.
I don't believe that Luria Nova has asserted that it has a direct claim on the lands—merely that Luria does.
A Lurian realm held it before, and was usurped illegally by Lurian rebels. Thus, D'Hara's very existence is an affront to Luria, and it is illegally occupying lands that were Luria's since long ago.
D'Hara is a Lurian realm. The idea of an "illegal" Lurian rebel is giggle-worthy, methinks. No claimant of the other party exists. My bet is that D'Hara would swear allegiance to the empire if given a chance.
Also, again, Luria does not exist. Are you talking about Luria Nova? Pian en Luries? Solaria? Luria Vesperi? One of the various other splinter groups? Or do you mean "Lurian people" have claims? If so, who? By what means?
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Again, I am NOT saying there's bad RP going on here or anything. I like what the Lurian nations (D'Hara, Luria Nova, Pian en luries, Solaria, Luria Vesperi, Giask, etc) have done with their land- and claim-obsessiveness. And I like the current conflict, it's a very neat storyline. But I'm just asserting that, as far as neutral OOC commentary: this is nonsense.
Also, the claim doesn't originate with Alanna, last I heard IC. The claim I've heard IC is that it originates with the Bedwyr family somewhere... as best I can tell via a 100% RP'd, completely non-mechanical imaginary grandmother of one of the Bedwyrs or something? I may be slightly off on it, but I recall it being approximately something that preposterous and fun.
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Luria does not exist.
D'Hara is a Lurian realm.
First of all, these two statements are mutually incompatible.
Second of all, they're both false.
The idea of an "illegal" Lurian rebel is giggle-worthy, methinks.
I didn't say they were an illegal realm. I said they were illegally occupying Lurian territory.
Also, again, Luria does not exist.
Yes, it does. Just because you don't understand it (or even explicitly don't recognize it) doesn't mean it doesn't, in multiple real senses, exist.
There has been a Lurian Empire of one form or another for most of the time since the founding of Shadovar. Until her disappearance and the usurpation of the Lurian throne by Koli Bedwyr, Alanna was the Empress of that Empire. In the time since then, things have gotten slightly more murky, but there's a reasonable claim to be made (IMNSHO) that Alanna never officially lost the position of Empress—and that her selection as Imperial Chancellor during the formation of...I forget, maybe the Third Empire? legitimizes her claim to all that she oversaw during that time.
Luria is not any one realm. A realm can be founded by a Lurian, and not be Lurian. (And vice versa, at least in theory.) Luria is a culture and an Empire. In order for a realm to truly be Lurian, it must have a clear chain of fealty to the Lurian Crown—which is, at present, held by Queen Alice Arundel, the first Monarch since the usurpation that Alanna really recognizes as legitimate.
Again, I am NOT saying there's bad RP going on here or anything. I like what the Lurian nations (D'Hara, Luria Nova, Pian en luries, Solaria, Luria Vesperi, Giask, etc) have done with their land- and claim-obsessiveness. And I like the current conflict, it's a very neat storyline. But I'm just asserting that, as far as neutral OOC commentary: this is nonsense.
Nonsense is, to some extent, in the eye of the beholder. Particularly when you're talking about legalities: they only ever make sense in the context of a given legal framework. Attempting to link them to any other legal framework, real or imagined, in order to either prove or disprove their legitimacy, is far more nonsensical.
Also, the claim doesn't originate with Alanna, last I heard IC. The claim I've heard IC is that it originates with the Bedwyr family somewhere...
That much I can confirm. I'm not sure exactly who first made the claim IC, though. When it was first brought up, I was pleasantly surprised at its inventiveness and coherence. I'd basically forgotten about Shadovar.
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D'Hara does not share Luria's culture.
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D'Hara does not share Luria's culture.
Bitter, divisive lords, fractious politics, and ambiguous religious identity with rising Astroist presence. Inability to unite for offensive actions. Sui generis government style with an inherited monarchy, but also, major focii of power elsewhere, especially dukes. Tendency to experience division and breakup on ducal lines. Founded starving, weak colony realm assisted by allies. Obsessed with ancient feuds and land claims.
Who am I describing?
Of course it doesn't. :-*
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If you want a LEGAL followup of the claims of Koli Bedwyr, look no further than Sevastian Guile.
From Bedwyr - Solari - Guile. Well publicized events, and rather popular ones, at the time.
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Quote from: JeVondair on Today at 08:22:22 PM
D'Hara does not share Luria's culture.
Quote from: Vellos on Yesterday at 07:36:13 PM
Bitter, divisive lords, fractious politics, and ambiguous religious identity with rising Astroist presence. Inability to unite for offensive actions. Sui generis government style with an inherited monarchy, but also, major focii of power elsewhere, especially dukes. Tendency to experience division and breakup on ducal lines. Founded starving, weak colony realm assisted by allies. Obsessed with ancient feuds and land claims.
Who am I describing?
Interesting... I do see a lot of connections, Solari, but the tension in D'Hara doesn't seem to be that bad between the dukes, but between the knights and lords. Old nobility vs new nobility mainly. But there's blending happening, I think. The exile kings are knights and Ismail is a lord, it's all upside down.
Our land claims are never based on anything ancient, they're mostly a vague, pragmatic sense of stewardship and necessity, like what happened with Panabuk and Laraibina.
More reasons why I think the D'Haran politic is similar to ancient Rome's, whereas Lurian seems more French or English. The last old feudal claim I heard in a lord election was Mathias staking his family claim over Paisly, and that was a while ago now.
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Quote from: JeVondair on Today at 08:22:22 PM
D'Hara does not share Luria's culture.
Quote from: Vellos on Yesterday at 07:36:13 PM
Bitter, divisive lords, fractious politics, and ambiguous religious identity with rising Astroist presence. Inability to unite for offensive actions. Sui generis government style with an inherited monarchy, but also, major focii of power elsewhere, especially dukes. Tendency to experience division and breakup on ducal lines. Founded starving, weak colony realm assisted by allies. Obsessed with ancient feuds and land claims.
Who am I describing?
Interesting... I do see a lot of connections, Solari, but the tension in D'Hara doesn't seem to be that bad between the dukes, but between the knights and lords. Old nobility vs new nobility mainly. But there's blending happening, I think. The exile kings are knights and Ismail is a lord, it's all upside down.
The more I've learned about the history between the two realms, the more similarities I've come to see. Like a strained relationship, those similarities can become incredibly irritating to both partners and even make things worse.
More reasons why I think the D'Haran politic is similar to ancient Rome's, whereas Lurian seems more French or English. The last old feudal claim I heard in a lord election was Mathias staking his family claim over Paisly, and that was a while ago now.
I'm not sure where I'd peg Luria's political culture. JPD did a lot of work back in the day trying to pin this down. It was generally assumed to be a Mediterranean or Byzantine influence, depending upon where one was in "Greater Luria". Solaria was run a bit like some North African relic from Roman times, for example.
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Solaria was run a bit like some North African relic from Roman times, for example.
Please explain?
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Indeed. It's nice to be able to juxtapose our BM realms with RL empires
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I've always liked the Lurian culture. Its a shame its always so far away and foreign from where I've usually played.
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3. Even if you did have claim under Shadovar, no heir of Shadovar-contra-D'Hara exists. Find me a descendant of Shadovar's rulers who can press the claim, a direct descendant with some kind of real claim. Simply because you were bros with a realm doesn't mean you are the lagl inheritor of their rights and liabilities.
D'Hara does have family of an ex-Shadovar ruler. And he's not about to swear fealty to the Lurias any time soon. D'Hara is the sole successor to everything that once was and that would have been Shadovarian.
Luria Nova has in fact done several of those things. The Dragon King has been denounced, and Luria has declared its own monarch. Furthermore, why would anyone declare Paisly D'hara's de jure capital? Luria would recognize it as Port Nebel. Furthermore, Alanna Anaris has just as much, if not more claim on D'haran lands than the majority of the Nobility of D'hara. She conquered it, the Monarch of Shadovar passed without issue, and therefore, the conquering monarch would have claim by rights of inheritance. Luria may not exercise de facto control, but in the BM universe where the international law you cite has no relevance because it does not exist, it still exercises a de jure claim through right of conquest. Furthermore, if you look at the diplomatic dealings, that doesn't necessarily mean a nation gives up all claim on the lands the entity it is dealing with holds. North Korea and South Korea hold to an armistice, and both will tell you that the other half of Korea is rightfully theirs and both are to a degree, correct in this.
A lurian shadow government is an interesting idea...
Conquering monarchs? The son of a former dictator of Shadovar is D'Haran. He has a far greater claim than Alanna Anaris does.
Of course it doesn't. :-*
D'Haran internal politics are remarkably stable, while D'Haran external politics are not geared towards a colonialist agenda. Lurian internal politics are just a series of rebellions, secessions, unions, and usurpations, while their external politics, whenever they can manage one, is to bully and try to vassalize their neighbors.
And there has never been a single D'Haran secession, nor a single D'Haran lord switching to another realm, thus far. Starvation has shrunk our realm on multiple occasions, but we always sprung back up, and stuck together. The rebellions were few and long back. We have a history of being religiously open, not having any native religion in quite a while but rather a history of a religious people following foreign faiths, while the Lurias have a relatively old native faith and have not started adopting SA in a significant level until relatively recently. D'Hara lived as a trader's realm, open on the world, always making dealings with as many realms as possible, whereas the Lurias tend to be isolationist, and rarely bother with foreign realms save for the rare moments they are stable enough to bully their neighbors.
D'Hara and the Lurias may share similarities, but their cultures are definately distinct.
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Soo.... is Luria going to attack D'Hara or what? Is this all just arguing for the sake of arguing?
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Soo.... is Luria going to attack D'Hara or what? Is this all just arguing for the sake of arguing?
Forummaster!
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Words
The best thing about comparing D'Hara to Luria is that one can always count on a vehement rebuttal from Chénier. ::)
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Soo.... is Luria going to attack D'Hara or what? Is this all just arguing for the sake of arguing?
Going solely on what's been recently revealed IC in LN, Fissoa (or Skyndarbau, rather) seems pretty intent on inviting war upon itself. Nobody in Luria really likes D'Hara, but there's also no active plan for warring them. If D'Hara wants to get involved, okay, but they really shouldn't assume that this is your grandfather's Luria. It's under new management, and employees have been trained how to walk and chew gum at the same time.
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The duel should have taken place in D'Hara...
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Oh, oh....duel in Balance's Retreat. I'd love to turn that region into THUNDERDOME!
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Btw, Luria's claim is a joke, because its basis is well practically nothing. Always on IRC ftw (I am not actually on though just logged in.)
<@Delvin_at_Work> Basically, the guy said he wanted to go found a realm, and that he would make it a part of the Lurian Empire, and she said, "OK, but we can't really help you"
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Do you mean Pian en luries conquered the tomb islands? That is true: but Pian en Luries does not exist and, again, my understanding is that nobody has claimed the title of Monarch of Pian en Luries for some time. If you want to claim "right of conquest" grants de jure claim (it doesn't: Medieval scholars repudiated right of conquest and hated the idea), then D'Hara has doubly strong claims, because they've conquered all of their lands multiple times from rogues and secessionists.
Okay, this is very simple:
1. Alanna Anaris IS the declared Monarch of Pian en Luries. She not only was originally Monarch of Pian en Luries, but has been granted that claim and title by the current Queen of the Lurian Empire (Alice Arundel). However, Queen Alice granted the Monarchy of Pian en Luries to Alanna not as a Kingdom level title, but as a duchy level title, that owes fealty to Alice's Lurian Empire.
2. Your understanding is based upon NOT being in Luria. Each of Luria's changes in government have had very clear and defining moments, each one where the winning party claimed ownership and claim to all of the previous Lurian leadership.
3. D'Hara is seen as an usurper of Lurian authority and claim to the lands BECAUSE they were a secessionist realm against a legitimate member of the Lurian Empire.
4. As Anaris stated elsewhere, the Lurian Empire (even when it was only a single realm) has existed as an entity since around the time of Shadovar. This hasn't changed. Although the empire's have succeeded into different forms over the years, there is still a single Lurian Empire which holds the claims of Luria.
Finally, does D'Hara certainly have claim of current control of the lands? Sure, but that doesn't make them sole rightful owners to the land. Let me use your own argument against you: Does Israel's control of Jerusalem completely negate all previous ownership of said lands? Does 1940's Germany's control of France make them sole rightful owners of France because they controlled it once? NO. Luria has the prior claim to that of D'Hara and as D'Hara's very foundation occurred through the destruction of a Lurian government, they can easily be seen as nobles in rebellion illegally controlling lands they have no rights to.
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3. D'Hara is seen as an usurper of Lurian authority and claim to the lands BECAUSE they were a secessionist realm against a legitimate member of the Lurian Empire.
Luria has the prior claim to that of D'Hara and as D'Hara's very foundation occurred through the destruction of a Lurian government, they can easily be seen as nobles in rebellion illegally controlling lands they have no rights to.
4. Luria Nova has engaged in treaties with D'Hara while D'hara held Qubel Lighthouse and/or Port Raviel as its capital city. Lurian realms have in fact engaged in numerous instances of direct diplomacy and agreement and treaty with D'Hara, and, under terms of estoppel, cannot cease this service once rendered. Once you sign away Qubel and Raviel by signing establishing treaties with the owners of Qubel and Raviel, you recognize the transfer.
Might have been true at one point, but I agree with Vellos. If you conduct negotiations and recognize them as a sovereign entity, then you've legitimized them. Doesn't mean you can't ignore all that diplomacy treating them as a real and rightful realm, and beat the war drum with "they be rebels". Just, OOC you have to admit that Luria dealt with them not as rebels but as a true and proper realm.
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Might have been true at one point, but I agree with Vellos. If you conduct negotiations and recognize them as a sovereign entity, then you've legitimized them. Doesn't mean you can't ignore all that diplomacy treating them as a real and rightful realm, and beat the war drum with "they be rebels". Just, OOC you have to admit that Luria dealt with them not as rebels but as a true and proper realm.
You can make treaties with a realm that you believe is made up of rebels illegally occupying lands that are rightfully yours. Just because they are recognized as a sovereign realm doesn't mean that you recognize everything they do or all the lands that they claim.
D'Hara holds lands which Luria lays no claim to.
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Yeah; this is a very different situation from Riombara vs Irombrozia back in the day. Delvin would never even use the name "Irombrozia," because he didn't recognize the realm as legitimate at all.
Alanna would like to see D'Hara destroyed—but the claim is on the lands, not the realm. If D'Hara was pushed off the islands entirely, the land claim would be, at best, far more tenuous. (And that's if you actually believe that it exists in the first place!)
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Okay, so, if claims are determined by who conquers and wins, D'Hara trumps Luria by definition -- D'Hara conquered and won over Shadowvar, after all.
Thank you, Lurian lawyers.
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Okay, so, if claims are determined by who conquers and wins, D'Hara trumps Luria by definition -- D'Hara conquered and won over Shadowvar, after all.
Thank you, Lurian lawyers.
Flawed logic is flawed. Multiple entities can have a claim on the same location, and just because a new claim is laid, doesn't mean the old claim has gone away. The only way a claim can go away is if every person holding said claim dies without issue, or the individuals holding the claims willfully cede their claims.
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Ugh, enough Forumaster. Why don't you take this war IG... Whoever wins is right.
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Ugh, enough Forumaster. Why don't you take this war IG... Whoever wins is right.
qft
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First of all, these two statements are mutually incompatible.
Second of all, they're both false.
Sorry, terminology mixup.
"Luria" does not exist as an entity capable of holding claim. It's a very loose geographical/cultural/historical reference and descriptor. "Luria" can't hold a claim any more than "Democracy" can hold a claim or "Puerto Rican-ness" can hold a claim. That's what I mean by "does not exist," i.e. "does not exist as a an agent capable of holding a claim."
On D'Hara: D'Hara is definitely a Lurian realm. A majority of their nobles are Lurian in origin for one thing. They're just the most factionalist faction of Luria.
I didn't say they were an illegal realm. I said they were illegally occupying Lurian territory.
Fair enough: except it's not legally Lurian territory under any definition of legal other than "Alanna asserts it is illegal."
There has been a Lurian Empire of one form or another for most of the time since the founding of Shadovar.
Norman England did not inherit the claims on Denmark that Saxon England held. Later England did not inherit the Norman claims on Normandy (at least not directly, only via separate marriages, by which means they also got Aquitaine). "a Lurian Empire," in order to hold onto claims, would need to be THE Lurian Empire. Or else at least be recognized as such by other legal agents, namely, other realms. I doubt you'll find many realms willing to legally recognize Luria Nova as synonymous with the Lurian Empire as synonymous with the Askileon-based ceremonial Pianian Empire as synonymous with older times when Pian en Luries was the whole area. Maybe if you trick some realms, but nobody will do it if they realize what they're saying. That would be like saying Madinan rulers who show up, or their kids, or their third cousins thrice removed's designated heirs elevated adventurer's best friend, could claim Golden Farrow.
The fact that there was sporadically an empire that got maybe some recognition (but probably not) as such by legitimacy-conferring agents and it happened to be culturally Lurian does not mean that they inherited claim. China has tried to claim ownership to several territories based on Ming and Qing dynasty claims: and every time they've tried this, it's been greeted with the legal equivalent of giggles. Same as when Malaysia tried to cite claim to Pedra Brance based on a sultanate from the 1500's. Just because there's a legal state YOU see as the inheritor doesn't mean it IS if everyone ELSE involved in those contracts didn't also think so: and where multiple states are concerned, that means both parties must agree.
Until her disappearance and the usurpation of the Lurian throne by Koli Bedwyr, Alanna was the Empress of that Empire. In the time since then, things have gotten slightly more murky, but there's a reasonable claim to be made (IMNSHO) that Alanna never officially lost the position of Empress—and that her selection as Imperial Chancellor during the formation of...I forget, maybe the Third Empire? legitimizes her claim to all that she oversaw during that time.
Third Empire. Case closed. Not the same. Is Alanna currently Queen of Pian en Luries/Empress of Pian en Luries? Was she ever not that? My thought is the answers are no and yes, respectively. If either of my expected answers are correct, she lost claim. You can't just drop off and pick up claims to lands. Also, the fact that she was selected as Chancellor weakens her claim if anything: the Empress of Pian en Luries should not allow herself to be made Chancellor of the empire of which she is Empress. If she was actually Empress, she would be recognized as such. The fact that she was not selected as such proves that these were non-contiguous entities with different legal bases, thus do not automatically inherit institutional claims (again, it's different for personal claims, like Solari's claim to Solaria, but ya'll have suggsested these are institutional, not personal, claims).
Luria is not any one realm. A realm can be founded by a Lurian, and not be Lurian. (And vice versa, at least in theory.) Luria is a culture and an Empire. In order for a realm to truly be Lurian, it must have a clear chain of fealty to the Lurian Crown—which is, at present, held by Queen Alice Arundel, the first Monarch since the usurpation that Alanna really recognizes as legitimate.
Neat idea, but not true. Again, let's be clear. I'm not saying that Alanna can't assert that this is true. But it's a misrepresentation of history, and totally at odds with any definition of legal claim ever used anywhere. Other monarcsh besides Alice have governed, and have done so with recognition by Luria's lords, and have asserted legal rights, and have exercised them, and have been recognized legally by the only people who can confer legitimacy in a pre-social contract era: other rulers. Alanna may regard Fulco (wasn't he before Alice? I forget) as having been a pretender, but Alanna can't be blamed, because she's a befuddled old lady Fulco was clearly legitimate, clearly exercised sovereignty, and, actually, he also asserted Lurian claim on D'Haran lands. So again: there HAVE been legitimate Lurian monarchs (in every sense of the word legitimate) not recognized as such as Alanna. The only way to refute that is to suggest that legitimacy is merely synonymous with Alanna's approval. Perhaps Luria believes that. My feeling is that isn't the case, however. If so, awesome: ya'll go for it, that's a neat RP story to tell. But, again, it's eccentric and atypical, and not at all remotely like what anyone would mean when they talk about legitimate claims.
Nonsense is, to some extent, in the eye of the beholder. Particularly when you're talking about legalities: they only ever make sense in the context of a given legal framework. Attempting to link them to any other legal framework, real or imagined, in order to either prove or disprove their legitimacy, is far more nonsensical.
No, it's not nonsensical to assess what is asserted as a legitimate claim by the only generally accepted standards of legitimacy. You can assert other sources of legitimacy. But ACTUAL legitimacy is merely a measure of what OTHER people will accept. Maybe BM generally has very different ideas of legitimacy: but international law in RL is not informed by super weird unintuitive things. It's basically intuitive. And actually, IMNSHO, BM is a great case study in international relations theory demonstrating that international law basically develops naturally.
That much I can confirm. I'm not sure exactly who first made the claim IC, though. When it was first brought up, I was pleasantly surprised at its inventiveness and coherence. I'd basically forgotten about Shadovar.
The story I heard is that Bedwyr saw starvation in D'Hara, and invented an NPC grandmother in an estate in Raviel, claiming she was high Shadovarian gentry forced into poverty by Katayanna's usurpations. She died of starvation in one of D'hara's periodic famines, and conferred all former Shadovarian claims to Bedwyr, and thence to whoever is representing the Bedwyr household.
My understanding is based on IC things I've been told, so could be erroneous. But I loved the idea of fabricating a starved NPC grandmother as a source for what's now become, in Dwilight time, a decade-long feud.
PS- I really like arguing about claims law.
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Conquering monarchs? The son of a former dictator of Shadovar is D'Haran. He has a far greater claim than Alanna Anaris does.
Game, set, match D'Hara on claims.
Just get that dude to publicly identify Machiavel Chénier as the representative and pressor of his claims to Shadovar.
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Ugh, enough Forumaster. Why don't you take this war IG... Whoever wins is right.
I was about to write an elaborate response, but what you're saying makes a lot more sense. When it comes down to it, Alice will believe what she wants to believe, Hireshmont II will starve every other day in Saffalore :P, Rynn will continue threatening Alice with his fearsome Dragon Corps, and Alanna will have a claim because Alice says she has a claim. Deal with it.
Whoever wins is right.
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Vellos,
Your arguments are a bunch of crap. How can anyone who isn't Lurian define what Luria or Lurian is? You can't tell us our definitions of ourselves are not true. Who better would know what a Lurian is than someone who literally "made" Luria what it is today.
You can spout international law all you want, but the simple fact of the matter is that the practice of RL law is based more upon the ability to win cases through one random loophole or the other, or some random piece of precedence that doesn't even matter. Battlemaster is a game, not Real Life law. I'm sorry that we as players didn't roleplay our characters to the standard of international laws of inheritance and claims. However, as a player in Luria, we sure roleplayed them well enough to pass on these claims FOR A GAME.
Finally, just to throw out the rest of your stupid arguments. The Morek Empire recognizes Luria Nova as the representative of the ongoing Lurian Empire, because it wasn't long ago that they signed a treaty with the reigning monarch of "Luria" Alice Arundel regarding splitting and reorganizing long-standing rights that were granted to Pian en Luries with its original land grant treaty with Morek (not the Morek Empire).
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Vellos,
Your arguments are a bunch of crap. How can anyone who isn't Lurian define what Luria or Lurian is? You can't tell us our definitions of ourselves are not true. Who better would know what a Lurian is than someone who literally "made" Luria what it is today.
You can spout international law all you want, but the simple fact of the matter is that the practice of RL law is based more upon the ability to win cases through one random loophole or the other, or some random piece of precedence that doesn't even matter. Battlemaster is a game, not Real Life law. I'm sorry that we as players didn't roleplay our characters to the standard of international laws of inheritance and claims. However, as a player in Luria, we sure roleplayed them well enough to pass on these claims FOR A GAME.
Finally, just to throw out the rest of your stupid arguments. The Morek Empire recognizes Luria Nova as the representative of the ongoing Lurian Empire, because it wasn't long ago that they signed a treaty with the reigning monarch of "Luria" Alice Arundel regarding splitting and reorganizing long-standing rights that were granted to Pian en Luries with its original land grant treaty with Morek (not the Morek Empire).
Woah man. No need for hostility.
I clearly said there was nothing wrong with what y'all were doing. This whole discussion started with me commenting on how much I liked the story you all had chosen to play: it's fun to see people do crazy stuff like engaging in years and years of conflict over minuscule and contrived reasons. That's good RP.
No need to insult.
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I was about to write an elaborate response, but what you're saying makes a lot more sense. When it comes down to it, Alice will believe what she wants to believe, Hireshmont II will starve every other day in Saffalore :P, Rynn will continue threatening Alice with his fearsome Dragon Corps, and Alanna will have a claim because Alice says she has a claim. Deal with it.
Whoever wins is right.
QFT.
Haha, couln't help but laugh with D'Hara after the most recent threat. Sorry JeVondair :P
On another note, Skyndarbau would better perish in the duel now. If not, Fissoa will likely have war with those frustrated Lurians on it's hands - as well as Aurvandil currently plundering Mangai - and I have written al those great goodbye interactions for nothing :)
Also, explained as to a five year old:
(Luria, Fissoa and D'Hara are playing together. Aurvandil is a spoiled kid who somehow always gets better gear from his parents)
(Luria): Hey Fissoa. I like you, but I don't like D'Hara. Want to be best friends? You can't be friends with D'Hara anymore, though. :-*
(Fissoa): But I don't want you two to fight! Sure, I'll be best friends if you want to, but I want a say in what games we play, and if you go pick on D'Hara I won't help! :-[
(Luria): I can understand. Sorry, but we can't be best friends anymore. 8)
(Fissoa): Hey D'Hara, Luria asked me to be best friends! I'm sorry, but I Luria has cooler toys. I asked her not to pick on you, though! :-X
(D'Hara): That's too bad, I wanted to be best friends too! But yes, Luria has way cooler toys than us. So I can understand .. I guess. :'(
(Luria): Fissoa, I know I didn't want to be best friends after all, but could you please just stand and watch while I bully D'Hara? ::)
(...)
(Luria): OMG! You talked to D'Hara behind my back? But I thought we were best friends! I'll never play with you again! >:(
(...)
(Luria): So I've been sulking for a while now, and actually I'm really angry! You better believe it! I want to fight [TO THE DEATH!] - you hurt my feelings real bad!!1! >:(
(Fissoa): Eh. Wut? ???
(D'Hara): Eh. Wut? ???
(Fissoa): So, D'Hara, Luria wants to fight me. I think she's just being silly, but we won't be able to play with her toys if I don't give her what she wants. :-\
(D'Hara): I don't understand either. Maybe you shouldn't fight her. :-*
(Fissoa): Meh, I better just take her on. :-[
(Fissoa): Hey Luria. I'll fight if you want to. I would like to say goodbye to my parents though, and tell my friends I might not be coming back. And I need to tell my brothers and sisters who's getting my toys. :-\
(Luria): Okay, we'll fight at my place. Just hurry, I want to go kick D'Haran ass. >:(
(Fissoa): But I wanted to fight at my place! Doesn't the challenged get to pick? Well, okay ... I'm on my way. :-[
(D'Hara and others): Hey Fissoa, we want to come say goodbye before you go fight Luria. Can we stop by? :-*
(Fissoa): [Teary eyes] Sure! I'll wait at the corner. :'(
(Aurvandil): Hahaa! I'll burn Fissoa's house down whilst he is away! >:( 8) ;D
(Fissoa): Oh !@#$. Better call 911 and wait for D'Hara some more. :o
(Luria): Omg! You broke your promise! You said you'd teleport to my house! You're such a bad friend (sic)! :'( :-X >:(
(Fissoa): ... What the !@#$ did I get into. :o :o :o
------------------
Feel free to reply in a similar format from Lurian/D'Haran point of view. Maybe we need a new thread, though :)
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Amused me more than it should have.
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Game, set, match D'Hara on claims.
Just get that dude to publicly identify Machiavel Chénier as the representative and pressor of his claims to Shadovar.
Given he's a vassal and friend of Machiavel, recognition of the legitimacy of the Dragon Throne will be had.
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But ACTUAL legitimacy is merely a measure of what OTHER people will accept.
This is the only part of this post that I really agree with.
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Hah, I got a kick out of Shizzle's five-year-old politics. Good !@#$ bro.
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Hah, I got a kick out of Shizzle's five-year-old politics. Good !@#$ bro.
Yay! Might continue the series :)
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I think it deserves its own thread shizzle!
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I think it deserves its own thread shizzle!
I agree. Dwi politics for 5 year olds.
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If you only had pictures to go with that text, would be so much better but in any case keep it up!
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Yeah, something like http://satwcomic.com/ would be cool :)
Could one of the grownups pwease split the relevant replies to a different thread named "Dwilight Politics for Five Year Olds"?
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If we all acted like adults, nothing interesting would happen. I stand by my 5 year old responses as outlined by Shizzle because I am proud of them.
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Sevastian Guile has succumbed to a lung infection and died. All of his claims were formally and vocally returned to his homeland of Luria. Sevastian directly gave the claims he had held for so long, back to their originator, Malus Solari.
So long DWI.
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Hmmm... that should be interesting.
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Hmmm... that should be interesting.
It couldn't have come at the worst time!! :'(
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It won't be that interesting, since we don't want the land. Malus described the area metaphorically as an "albatross."
edit: missing "We"
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It won't be that interesting, since don't want the land. Malus described the area metaphorically as an "albatross."
Oh, we know...but it's our curse and we won't take it off until we all die.
The Divides are cursed, I tells you, cursed! Fun...but CURSED!
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It won't be that interesting, since don't want the land. Malus described the area metaphorically as an "albatross."
Goddamned Divides. I see this as Sevastian's posthumous payback. And it was a fine move. I'd rather see the whole area rogue than a part of any realm. Fortunately, I do not rule LN.
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Fortunately, I do not rule LN.
You're the de facto ruler, get over it :P
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So when is the official duel? ...;D
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Soon. Everyone wants to RP and participate, it seems, so there's no harm in giving them the chance. It's a good story, lots of people involved.
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Yeah, there's no rush :) So far Skyndarbau has walked 500yds to the palace, and people are starting to pile up inside. Not that Alice knows this:P
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Goddamned Divides. I see this as Sevastian's posthumous payback. And it was a fine move. I'd rather see the whole area rogue than a part of any realm. Fortunately, I do not rule LN.
You are quite welcome old chum.
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Further news, for those not following other threads; first duel between Alice and Skyndarbau resolved, with the latter critically wounded.
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Further news, for those not following other threads; first duel between Alice and Skyndarbau resolved, with the latter critically wounded.
Yet another victory for Luria. D'Hara will be the next entity to suffer a critical wound. Long live the Empire!
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(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/391/503/48e.jpg)
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I lost almost all of my money betting against the blind queen. I demand an epic RP explaining how this happened!
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I lost almost all of my money betting against the blind queen. I demand an epic RP explaining how this happened!
I'm intrigued as well :P As no game mechanics back up Alice's blindness, I'd say this is one on Arundel :)
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Uh, haven't you guys seen any anime? Little blind girls are always the most dangerous person on the field.
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(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/391/503/48e.jpg)
(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/32508364.jpg)
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(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/32508364.jpg)
(http://i.qkme.me/zn1.jpg)
Not my choice of words, but hey
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:-[ :'(
I did not save my last messages before leaving Luria and I had no idea I would lose all of it emmigrating. I lost my last RP´s. :(
But I am glad the Queen survived :)
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I personally find the blindness to be poor RP. As far as game mechanics are concerned, it's obvious that the character has no significant handicaps. This isn't some stupid anime/manga where all of the best swordsmen are obviously blind.
And as the saying goes, game mechanics trump RP...
And what's next, a master swordsman who RPs as being armless? Paraplegic?
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I personally find the blindness to be poor RP. As far as game mechanics are concerned, it's obvious that the character has no significant handicaps. This isn't some stupid anime/manga where all of the best swordsmen are obviously blind.
And as the saying goes, game mechanics trump RP...
And what's next, a master swordsman who RPs as being armless? Paraplegic?
As the saying goes there is no mechanic to determine blindness. Also, the RP behind it represented a blind person in a sword fight rather well. There was no parrying, there was no blocking, only a blind woman charging and swinging a sword utilizing a set of techniques, and landing a lucky blow.
There is no game mechanic to have a non-regnant king, but that didn't stop you. There's no game mechanic for marriage, that hasn't stopped anyone, including you.
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As the saying goes there is no mechanic to determine blindness. Also, the RP behind it represented a blind person in a sword fight rather well. There was no parrying, there was no blocking, only a blind woman charging and swinging a sword utilizing a set of techniques, and landing a lucky blow.
There is no game mechanic to have a non-regnant king, but that didn't stop you. There's no game mechanic for marriage, that hasn't stopped anyone, including you.
The comparisons are so utterly inappropriate that I cannot discern your intents... Does marriage make one weaker with the sword? Make one any less apt to administrate regions? To lead troops? Marriage is a legal act, not a physical condition. Same with regency.
There's a world of difference between RPing a party between characters and RPing the most badass swordfighter of the world being a legless person with arthritis and Parkinson's.
And for the record, that's not a "saying". As for a blind person charging, she could be easily dodged. It's not because that's how people have decided to RP it that it's good RP.
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The comparisons are so utterly inappropriate that I cannot discern your intents... Does marriage make one weaker with the sword? Make one any less apt to administrate regions? To lead troops? Marriage is a legal act, not a physical condition. Same with regency.
There's a world of difference between RPing a party between characters and RPing the most badass swordfighter of the world being a legless person with arthritis and Parkinson's.
And for the record, that's not a "saying". As for a blind person charging, she could be easily dodged. It's not because that's how people have decided to RP it that it's good RP.
Yea, but the game mechanics decided that Sky didn't dodge, and got stabbed. End of story. Alice even used the overrun strategy. Alice isn't being RP'd as the most bad ass swordsman in the history of history. She won a duel. End of story.
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Yea, but the game mechanics decided that Sky didn't dodge, and got stabbed. End of story. Alice even used the overrun strategy. Alice isn't being RP'd as the most bad ass swordsman in the history of history. She won a duel. End of story.
Doesn't matter what she RPs, the game made her a badass swordman. She didn't win because she got lucky or because of whatever strategy she decoded to use and RP, she won because of her badass swordfighting skill, due to being an ex-advy.
And something tells me that if the game didn't make her the badass swordmen she is (if she only had like 10% swordfighting instead), then she likely wouldn't have accepted the duel in the first place. That being said, wasn't she the one to challenge him to begin with?
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From what I understand Alice had only 15% swordskill and yes, she challenged Skynderbau. I'm pretty sure everyone saw that this duel could be a toss up either way due to both having low swordskill.
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Alice won the duel because she is, in Malus' estimation, the purest representation of the power of the Bloodstars. Even without sight, she felt their presence. So strongly that she upended her life to better understand them. And now she is queen of what is, on paper at least, the most power Lurian regime yet to emerge. Divine ordination 101.
To those not familiar with the sticky details of her conversion, she was the nominal leader of the Pyrists. Pyrists believe that there is a flame of the divine inside of everyone. Stars are giant, hot, flames. The Bloodstars are giant, hot, divine flames that influence us from the inside. It is his (very much private and unshared with anyone—even her) belief that outcomes such as these are the Bloodstars are in fact making her an instrument of their will, and that she is effectively the Muad'Dib of Dwilight.
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Duels don't make you a bad-ass swordsman. If you win a duel at 5% sword skill against some other loser with 6%, you're still losing your head against someone with 70%.
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Uh, haven't you guys seen any anime? Little blind girls are always the most dangerous person on the field.
Also the whole movie series about Zatoichi the blind swordsman. The blind are like Jedi; I wouldn't fight a blind Queen, no way. And Alice has trained her whole life. If you train at something you can be good at it.
I personally find the blindness to be poor RP. As far as game mechanics are concerned, it's obvious that the character has no significant handicaps. This isn't some stupid anime/manga where all of the best swordsmen are obviously blind.
And as the saying goes, game mechanics trump RP...
And what's next, a master swordsman who RPs as being armless? Paraplegic?
It might be a little unrealistic, but !@#$ it, we're making an interesting story. Who was the hunchbacked king of England that died in battle by getting hacked apart with halberds?
There's also the fact that I have a moderate handicap IRL, so I think the more reasonable handicaps (and character flaws in general) are added to the game environment, the better. Not everyone can be handsome, beautiful, capable, black/white sort of good and evil, genius, wealthy, perfect. The defects make it interesting.
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I personally find the blindness to be poor RP. As far as game mechanics are concerned, it's obvious that the character has no significant handicaps. This isn't some stupid anime/manga where all of the best swordsmen are obviously blind.
And as the saying goes, game mechanics trump RP...
And what's next, a master swordsman who RPs as being armless? Paraplegic?
There are three geocentric stars floating in the night sky over Dwilight, and nobody disputes this. That they're geocentric is effectively a tactic admission that they are special, which lends credence to the claims of Astroists. In fact, Machiavel bought into those claims. So why is RP'ed blindness worse than this kind of forced acceptance of an RP point on a massive scale?
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There are three geocentric stars floating in the night sky over Dwilight, and nobody disputes this. That they're geocentric is effectively a tactic admission that they are special, which lends credence to the claims of Astroists. In fact, Machiavel bought into those claims. So why is RP'ed blindness worse than this kind of forced acceptance of an RP point on a massive scale?
The presence or absence of geocentric stars is completely irrelevant to any game mechanic whatsoever. That's the difference. A difference for which I'm astounded by how many refuse to acknowledge.
Anyone else wants to compare it with more completely irrelevant examples concerning my character's RPs? Are you going to bring up the fact that Machiavel likes mead, next? That his ship has a name? That his manor is by the sea? There are no comparisons to be made. I'm not RPing him as a mute orator or an autistic administrator, as an undead or as a great wizard. My RPs with Machiavel fill the voids left by the game mechanics, they complement them. They don't contradict them.
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I understand that a blind woman winning a swordfight seems un-SMA, but it's a low fantasy setting...not a no-fantasy setting. We have undead, monsters, nobles who can't die, daimons, and any number of things that seem unrealistic.
The idea of it being against game-mechanics, I don't care so much. So long as this is an isolated incident (that Queen Alice isn't constantly swordfighting and doing things that require eyesight), then it can be chalked up to fluke/luck. It's up to the player of Alice to police themselves between the RP and the character's ability, but an occasional setup for something interesting is always welcome.
If it really does bother you, spread the word that Alice cheated and had a mustachioed double fight for her after poisoning her opponent's morning wine and sacrificing babies to the Zuma for ethereal aid.
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spread the word that Alice cheated and had a mustachioed double fight for her after poisoning her opponent's morning wine and sacrificing babies to the Zuma for ethereal aid.
On it!
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The presence or absence of geocentric stars is completely irrelevant to any game mechanic whatsoever. That's the difference. A difference for which I'm astounded by how many refuse to acknowledge.
One is VASTLY more important than the other. So why are you so bent out of a shape about the one that's irrelevant? Would you like an acceptable list of traits, quirks, or deformities?
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I can tell you right now that neither of the two duelists had any significant sword skill, by their own admission.
So when two people with no significant skill fight, and one wins, how the hell does that mean "the game made her a badass"?
You're reaching, Chénier. If you have to find something to bitch at Luria about (which I understand is your primary reason for being these days), please try to make it something that actually makes sense.
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I think the issue people are having is that if two people of equal skill (no matter how good/bad they actually are) are dueling, then the one with no eyesight would lose, hands down, because - well, being blind sucks. That's why most blind people have some kind of aid (a stick, a dog, a friend) when they go walking about outside. They can't anticipate cars, and cars are loud and noisy as hell. How could a blind person realistically anticipate a quiet swordsman? If they were to go flailing ahead, all it would require is for someone to sidestep - and stab. There would be no way for a blind person to anticipate that their opponent would sidestep, especially if they weren't skilled at swordfighting. A sighted person should have the advantage if both parties are of equal skill. But the code doesn't distinguish between sighted people and blind people.
If someone had been RPing their character as an armless swordmaster, I'm sure that would have come under fire immediately as unrealistic and poor RP. It'd still be just as valid as a blind person fighting, however. So...
I have my next character concept.
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I think the issue people are having is that if two people of equal skill (no matter how good/bad they actually are) are dueling, then the one with no eyesight would lose, hands down, because - well, being blind sucks. That's why most blind people have some kind of aid (a stick, a dog, a friend) when they go walking about outside. They can't anticipate cars, and cars are loud and noisy as hell. How could a blind person realistically anticipate a quiet swordsman? If they were to go flailing ahead, all it would require is for someone to sidestep - and stab. There would be no way for a blind person to anticipate that their opponent would sidestep, especially if they weren't skilled at swordfighting. A sighted person should have the advantage if both parties are of equal skill. But the code doesn't distinguish between sighted people and blind people.
If someone had been RPing their character as an armless swordmaster, I'm sure that would have come under fire immediately as unrealistic and poor RP. It'd still be just as valid as a blind person fighting, however. So...
I have my next character concept.
The car analogy is bad because the sounds of cars would be ever present for the most part, and depends on where you are standing whether it is dangerous or not. However, in a medieval world with a duel, I feel that the blind person would most definitely know where the person with the sword is coming from and what their intentions are. It's not going to be so good as to make them superior in any regard to a person with eyesight, but they will at least be able to have a general sense of what's going on. And with the sword skills as low as they are, an overrun strategy probably would work because the other person wouldn't know how to parry properly.
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Hey, guys, you are overlooking a huge piece of evidence, not only is Queen Alice blind she is a ninja trained by the same guy who trained Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow.
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I can tell you right now that neither of the two duelists had any significant sword skill, by their own admission.
So when two people with no significant skill fight, and one wins, how the hell does that mean "the game made her a badass"?
You're reaching, Chénier. If you have to find something to bitch at Luria about (which I understand is your primary reason for being these days), please try to make it something that actually makes sense.
No, no. Here is what everyone is missing, Chenier was dumb enough to listen to Tarajist. No one has said it yet for reasons unknown to me but Alice was never an advy as Chenier stated. Chenier is simply getting this from some time Tarajist said it and foolish enough to believe him. What Chenier was complaining about kind of makes sense to complain about, its just that what he was complaining about wasn't happening. Basically Chenier is saying have 80% sword skill then saying you are blind doesn't make much sense, since how are you blind but that good with a sword? That wouldn't really make sense, but like I said, his mistake was believing Tarajist.
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Okay, guys, settle down.
First off, Arundel and I agreed OOCly for the duel. I was very aware Alice is blind, and also that the game mechanics wouldn't recognise this, meaning it was very possible Skyndarbau would get pwned by a young blind girl. Yes, this is somewhat embarrassing for the character in question, but I knew that was a possibility.
Secondly, I think it's very clear a blind person would never defeat an opponent with equal swordfighting skill. Period. She may be a trained ninja or a jedi for all I care, but the game mechanics trump this. Alice and Skyn's swordskill is both around 10-15%, and these trump all rp variables. Alice won, clearly, so she had no issues with being blind somehow. But the reason was not better swordsmanship.
I think this whole event has created a problematic situation, a bug in the matrix if you will. A blind person somehow beat another man in direct combat. Why? I'll leave this for Arundel to work out. But I'll admit I would consider it poor form for him to just maintain the idea that a blind person randomly swinging a sword defeated her opponent - it's impossible. I'm more than hapy to accept some kind of Blood Stars superpower, though, as long as it explains her obvious suppremacy.
Tl;dr: Alice is severely handicapped, but won easily nonetheless. Game mechanics don't recognise her handicap, so something should be invented to balance things out. In other words, her handicap level is 0 as defined by the game. Blindness counts for handicap lvl 10. Invent something that debuffs her -10 so things even out :)
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Or, and hear me out on this, perhaps the skill factors in her skill with the sword along with her blindness, so that the fact she was blind brought her to a much lower sword skill than she normally would be. Note that this would be an IC explanation.
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Or, and hear me out on this, perhaps the skill factors in her skill with the sword along with her blindness, so that the fact she was blind brought her to a much lower sword skill than she normally would be. Note that this would be an IC explanation.
That makes sense as well, but I don't think things were roleplayed as such?
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Trust me, weirder things have happened than a blind person winning a sword fight. How about a deaf composer who became one of the most famous creators of classical music in the world?
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Trust me, weirder things have happened than a blind person winning a sword fight. How about a deaf composer who became one of the most famous creators of classical music in the world?
Failing to compose won't exactly kill you, will it :P
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And said composer could still feel the music.
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Or, and hear me out on this, perhaps the skill factors in her skill with the sword along with her blindness, so that the fact she was blind brought her to a much lower sword skill than she normally would be. Note that this would be an IC explanation.
This, exactly.
The fact that she is blind is purely RP. The fact that she trained extra-hard in swordsmanship to overcome this is also purely RP. The game mechanics only recognize what her actual skill with the sword is, not "what it would be if she wasn't blind".
Thus, if she had 80% sword skill, then that would mean that she had trained to such an extent that she was as good without sight as someone else with 80% skill was with sight.
(Disclaimer: She didn't have 80% sword skill.)
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This, exactly.
The fact that she is blind is purely RP. The fact that she trained extra-hard in swordsmanship to overcome this is also purely RP. The game mechanics only recognize what her actual skill with the sword is, not "what it would be if she wasn't blind".
Thus, if she had 80% sword skill, then that would mean that she had trained to such an extent that she was as good without sight as someone else with 80% skill was with sight.
(Disclaimer: She didn't have 80% sword skill.)
The game has a training option. Had she used it all of her life, her swordfighting skill would be higher. Obviously, she did not spend any significant amount of time or resources on training, if her swordfighting skill is as low as has been claimed. The compensation claim would be the equivalent of stating that a region loves its lord because of all the time he spends with them dealing justice, when said character never once held a court, or, you know, claiming that that all of the bureaucrats of a realm have been dealt with without the realm ever, say, going into anarchy.
As for the composer comparison, it doesn't fit as others have said. There are different ways to see music, failing will not kill you, and, even more importantly, it is a solo operation without any deadline. I really can't see how beating someone with an oversized knife had anything to do with arts or how it could be compared in such a manner.
And indeed, as Penchant stated, I was running on the assumption that she was an ex-advy with a godly swordfighting skill %. But as Shizzle stated, that's irrelevant, as even with low sword skill that's still RPing a handicap that is contradicted by game mechanics. If she wanted to RP as blind, she should have at the very least avoided all uses of the swordfighting skill she could. Otherwise, it's just corny RP. Because she's trying to get everyone to RP on how badass the queen is, "she was blind but still stroke him down!", in total contradiction with game mechanics, while in reality she was dueling a character with exactly the same capacities as herself, and thus not doing anything truly badass. It'd be as if I RPed that I could levitate and fly, and that thus I should be worshiped, when obviously the game mechanics don't allow me to do so in any form.
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Except... the game mechanics *do* allow for people to win duels. And blindness is not something that bends the laws of reality or puts an unfair burden upon other players. Skyndarbau accepted the duel. He knew the risk. Shizzle's said this. All parties involved seem fine with the facts of this case. So, what are you upset about, exactly? It would help if you could state your specific grievance. And then be prepared to defend your reasoning, politely. I think you'd find a lot of people willing to sort it out.
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Except... the game mechanics *do* allow for people to win duels. What are you upset about, exactly? It would help if you could state your specific grievance. And then be prepared to defend your reasoning, politely. I think you'd find a lot of people willing to sort it out.
My point is simply that I find her blindness to be poor RP because it contradicts game mechanics. Yes, game mechanics "allow for people to win duels", obviously. But in the formula that determines who wins, it considers strategy, luck, and skill. The only place that a handicap could fall into, here, is skill. Because you aren't blind one day and not the next, so the luck argument, if that's what you are trying to bring up, doesn't hold up. Strategy, on the other hand, would imply that everything else being equal, the odds should also be equal.
The only way that such a serious handicap could be RPed in harmony with game mechanics would be if someone was once a great swordsman, and then was tortured so much he became a bad one. Then RPing that the torture had rendered blind or the like would make sense.
I would frown just as much if someone from my own realms RPed something of the like. Really, my point was simply that it's not because it's well-written or part of a long series of narratives that the RP itself is good. RP quality does not derive from how many messages you write with the header of "roleplay", or how low said messages are, but from what the events and actions being described are and how they are in harmony with the environment that take place in. As such, I consider many people that have never written a single "RP" to be far better RPers than a great many people who have written such messages profusely. The praise for this low-grade RP was what prompted my reactions.
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Trust me, weirder things have happened than a blind person winning a sword fight. How about a deaf composer who became one of the most famous creators of classical music in the world?
Game, set, match. There are bigger fish to fry than this episode, Chenier.
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My point is simply that I find her blindness to be poor RP because it contradicts game mechanics.
No, it doesn't.
Yes, game mechanics "allow for people to win duels", obviously. But in the formula that determines who wins, it considers strategy, luck, and skill. The only place that a handicap could fall into, here, is skill. Because you aren't blind one day and not the next, so the luck argument, if that's what you are trying to bring up, doesn't hold up. Strategy, on the other hand, would imply that everything else being equal, the odds should also be equal.
Her skill, accounting for her blindness, was better than Skyndarbau's, apparently.
Your fundamental argument here is just fatally flawed, Chénier.
There is absolutely no reason one cannot (or should not) roleplay as a blind character. If a blind character does something involving swordfighting skill, it is perfectly reasonable to claim that they were engaging in extra practice sessions specifically to compensate for their blindness.
Yes, there is an option to train your swordfighting skill at the Academy. Yes, this would mean roleplaying training your swordfighting skill in instances when you were not actually training it at the game-mechanic Academy. No, that isn't a problem.
You know why? Because it's a RP compensation for a RP problem. It doesn't claim that the person should be made better or worse at swordfighting; it doesn't demand manual adjustments to game-mechanic values to make the align with RP (unlike some people :P ). It's purely a RP way to explain why she can have X skill with the sword when RPed to be blind, even though in game-mechanic terms, she has only trained as much as a sighted person would need to to achieve that level of skill.
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... Maybe she's a Jedi... or Sith.
*runs away*
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Not that it matters much but I have no issue with her being blind and winning a duel. That said I did not see the rps of the duel. Main point of this game is to try and have fun with everyone which I an sure everyone agrees.
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IMHO, the only way I would have a problem with it is if Alice in some way tried to brag about how a blind girl could best a sighted, able-bodied man in a duel. So long as Alice doesn't try to make it seem like Skyndarbau is a clumsy oaf who can't handle a sword ("Oh look how pathetic he is, that a blind little girl bested him with a sword. How pitiful". etc., etc.) If both sides play it as the absurdly unlikely outcome that it turned out to be, then I don't see any big deal with it.
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IMHO, the only way I would have a problem with it is if Alice in some way tried to brag about how a blind girl could best a sighted, able-bodied man in a duel. So long as Alice doesn't try to make it seem like Skyndarbau is a clumsy oaf who can't handle a sword ("Oh look how pathetic he is, that a blind little girl bested him with a sword. How pitiful". etc., etc.) If both sides play it as the absurdly unlikely outcome that it turned out to be, then I don't see any big deal with it.
Same.
Also, I would like to briefly express my appreciation for the complex that game BM really is. I think it's amazing these kind of issues come up on a regular basis.
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Couldn't we just start propagating a rumor that Alice is lying about being blind?
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Or maybe Skyn lost on purpose ? He's fighting the Queen of Luria, a realm known for being temperamental. He is probably thinking, if I harm their queen they are going to be extremely upset and take it out on Fissoa.
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Or maybe Skyn lost on purpose ? He's fighting the Queen of Luria, a realm known for being temperamental. He is probably thinking, if I harm their queen they are going to be extremely upset and take it out on Fissoa.
That.... sounds nothing like Skyndarbau.
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That.... sounds nothing like Skyndarbau.
Never met Skyndarbau and wasn't present for the duel. But my character (a Lurian) would find it believable that Skyndarbau lost on purpose. Seems more believable for my character than Vellos' suggestion.
My character was one of the individuals speaking up for having the armies finish off Falkirk before this whole mess. Hopefully we go to war again sometime soon though. We haven't had any battles this year and summer is almost gone already.
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I like the sense of a war season, seeing how winter prohibits long voyages.
Regarding the duel, Skyndarbau accepts defeat, and the gods must not have been at his side. It's time to apologise and swallow his pride, also because a Fissoan needs a burial, and another wants to be knighted by him. And he's needed in Madina. The pierced armor from the duel stays in Askileon as a souvenir :)
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I like the sense of a war season, seeing how winter prohibits long voyages.
Totally. Perhaps the maritime peoples have a societal thing for keeping it low-key in the winter. :) Not warm? Mmm-k I'm going home.
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To explain a little:
Alice was never an advy. If you feel inclined to make sure, please visit my family page.
Alice's swordfighting skill is much much less than 80%. Believe me or not, I don't really care.
It's not impossible for a blind person to win a duel: it's just more unlikely. A strike is a strike: it can be difficult to maneuver around, or fairly easy. Alice's might have been difficult to dodge by chance, possibly having something to do with wider arcs and unpredictable strikes.
People who've had vision before going blind often report seeing colors and memories vividly. I had Alice experience a memory, previously RPed in the same fashion months before this all came up, which relieved her of some of her handicap. If you want to see how, I'll be posting the entire collection of RPs soon enough for your eyes to scrutinize.
Sound can be used in battle, albeit to a much lesser degree than vision. Footsteps, breathing, and other bodily movements can be read. Alice was RPed training in these regards, benefiting somewhat as a result.
Skyndarbau was RPed as a man marked by age. There are general disadvantages to be found there as well, although I believe Skyndarbau retained a good amount of his strength.
Shizzle and I agreed OOCly on the event, as mentioned earlier in the thread, with the former stating he preferred losing/dying. I respected his preference, and adjusted accordingly. I would have left my SF skill at 5-10% if he desired otherwise.
To conclude, I disagree that there were any un-SMA mechanisms used. I did some research before moving forward; if I stretched it a little, it was probably due to my lack of experience with complete blindness. I had fun, I think Shizzle had fun, and a good number of Lurians also had fun. The event as a whole advanced political schemes and promoted realm development. We didn't use magic or fantasy-like concepts, following in-game rules the entire way through.
No regrets, would do it again.
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Okay, problem with this claims logic:
[...]
3. Even if you did have claim under Shadovar, no heir of Shadovar-contra-D'Hara exists. Find me a descendant of Shadovar's rulers who can press the claim, a direct descendant with some kind of real claim. Simply because you were bros with a realm doesn't mean you are the lagl inheritor of their rights and liabilities.
Descendants exist.
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No regrets, would do it again.
Yep.
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Descendants exist.
Just the person I was looking for!
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Just the person I was looking for!
A D'Haran, direct descendant of Shadovarian ruler.
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A D'Haran, direct descendant of Shadovarian ruler.
You are quoting the wrong person.
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First tourney is a double event tourney, with 2500 gold for winning prizes, and 1000 gold for second place prizes. The second one right after will break records!
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First tourney is a double event tourney, with 2500 winning prizes, and 1000 second place prizes. The second one right after will break records!
Maybe Skyndarbau should pass by, though he'd only get his ass kicked once more :P
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Well, Former Arbiter Malus Solari has been imprisoned for crimes against D'Hara, specifically the role he played in organising the first Lurian invasion of Sallowsite. Posting here instead of the SA thread because it is a secular issue.
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well, never realised D`hara was this stupid..
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Ahem. I predict explosion!
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A secular issue, aye? Nice try. :)
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A secular issue, aye? Nice try. :)
He was a priest when Solaria declared war on D'Hara. It wasn't a church issue then, why would it be now?
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Well obviously D'Hara wants to portray arresting the Light of whatever silly red star as a secular issue.
But well, this is an IC discussion in which I'll have no part anyway.
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well, never realised D`hara was this stupid..
This move is largely supported by non-Astroists.
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This move is largely supported by non-Astroists.
Yeah, and who were the primary people that looked likely to be willing to support D'Hara in a war against Luria? Could it be the exact people they just stuck a big finger in the eye of?
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Well, I trust we are all civilized enough that given enough dedication, we could all come to some sort of more or less comfortable arrangement about peace and stability. It is the responsibility of those who have the power to shake up things a little so we do not stagnate, and this move definitely throws more fuel to the fire.
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Well, Former Arbiter Malus Solari has been imprisoned for crimes against D'Hara, specifically the role he played in organising the first Lurian invasion of Sallowsite. Posting here instead of the SA thread because it is a secular issue.
Arresting a priest is never a secular issue for the mere fact that the only reason you can arrest them is because they are priests. i.e. you can only arrest them because of their religious office. Arresting a priest and saying it has nothing to do with the religion (and thus they have no reason to get involved) is like shooting the pope and saying the Catholic church has nothing to do with it, and shouldn't get involved.
Now, if it were possible to arrest nobles of a class other than priest, then I could see how you could claim that an arrest of a priest is a secular issue. As it stands, IMHO, arresting a priest is *always* an issue that concerns the religion.
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Arresting a priest is never a secular issue for the mere fact that the only reason you can arrest them is because they are priests. i.e. you can only arrest them because of their religious office. Arresting a priest and saying it has nothing to do with the religion (and thus they have no reason to get involved) is like shooting the pope and saying the Catholic church has nothing to do with it, and shouldn't get involved.
Now, if it were possible to arrest nobles of a class other than priest, then I could see how you could claim that an arrest of a priest is a secular issue. As it stands, IMHO, arresting a priest is *always* an issue that concerns the religion.
*shrugs*
Then move this to the SA thread.
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There's also a difference between a regular priest and the third highest ranking member of the faith in the vicinity specifically on church business, having clearly announced his presence in the vicinity upon church business.
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What exactly happened? Which realm arrested whom from where?
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I thought you had to be at war with a realm in order to arrrest priests from that realm? (Unless the priest is from your own realm.) Was this changed? D'Hara isn't at war with LN, so they shouldn't be able to arrest priests from LN...
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I thought you had to be at war with a realm in order to arrrest priests from that realm? (Unless the priest is from your own realm.) Was this changed? D'Hara isn't at war with LN, so they shouldn't be able to arrest priests from LN...
Unless he was in a region being taken over. Any priest in a region under TO is fair game.
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Well this will teach me not to skim the messages in the D'Hara realm channel because more interesting things are happening in SA...
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Sure, you can arrest any priest... But then what? You can't really do jack !@#$ with them once you have them in your clutches. You just stare at them awhile, then they go home and preach again. And if they RTO a region or two? Nope, you can't even ban those suckers. Cheerio, pip pip, have a good time destroying our infrastructure, see you again on Monday!
IMO, you should be able to ban -any- noble that ends up in your prison, just at a hit to honour/prestige if they aren't already an infiltrator or rebel commander.
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It's a nice cassus belli to add to the other ones.
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Frankly, I think you should be able to arrest any Noble anywhere regardless of realm, class, or diplomatic status.
If you have the men to do it, you should be able to arrest someone.
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IMO, you should be able to ban -any- noble that ends up in your prison, just at a hit to honour/prestige if they aren't already an infiltrator or rebel commander.
Nope.
You can ban a noble in your prisons who is a criminal—that is, they were imprisoned in the act of committing some non-conventional act against your realm.
I think that this notion of criminality being required for a ban—which is essentially a death sentence—has been lost over the years since infiltrators were introduced, and it first became possible to ban nobles who were not a part of your realm. Yes, it would be convenient to be able to just ban any noble that crossed your path, because then you could execute them out of hand if you ever caught them again, for any reason!
But that goes against BattleMaster's guarantee that death is rare, and pretty much requires you to do something to choose it, or at least choose to risk it. It is also simply not the direction that we feel is appropriate—and even if we do eventually push for more character death in the game, I do not believe that this is one of the ways we would choose to do so. It simply makes it far too easy to drive someone away from a realm.
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The problem with that is that somebody who RTOs a region in your realm, and is a member of an enemy realm, -is- a criminal, but the game code doesn't see them as a criminal.
Edit:
To expound - somebody from a realm you are at war with could sit in a region of yours and preach heresy and godlessness and (even worse) rebellion to your peasants. And there is absolutely nothing you can do about it because the game cannot tell the difference in that context between a nobleman and a criminal.
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well, never realised D`hara was this stupid..
Tell me about it...
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I will happily say Luria is stupid though. So very, very stupid. Who are we even going to go to war against?
Well, D'Hara, obviously.
Then someone decides it migh be Morek as well. Because, that's smart. We've always done war so well on one front, why not two? It's only twice as hard.
WTF is that blind old biddy doing? We all supported a war against D'Hara. Now this? Good one idiot queen, good one.......
It makes me want to quit BM all over again. With people like that in charge, I'll just concentrate on helping Perdan kick-arse on the other continent. Sha damn well might immigrate at this rate.
Why "make" a war, when we had a perfectly winnable one anyway? I don't care about the SA coalition, neither does most of Luria Nova. And we ARE Sanguis Astroism in the "south" (everywhere south of Morek). Yeah, good one tweedle-dums.
First Falkirk and now this. Idiots.
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Samboji, there is a reason why you don't know who we're going to war with. Need I remind you of Sha'shanti went behind Idesbald's back? Not exactly smart to attempt to humiliate the general and then wish he shares plans with you.
But, being honest, I've had great fun mocking Sha'shanti in the Military Council with your latest letters. Sha'shanti should consider being a joker.
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Just to make it obvious.
No-one other than the "old-hands" in Luria Nova want a war in SA. Or against Morek. Or anything other than against our most recent enemies.
How can we not just have a nice, simple, little war against D'Hara. They've Imprisoned a Duke. They were rude to our Queen. They attacked us with the Vesperians (who incidently are now full Lurian citizens, other than the hunting reserves. They're just land managers, not nobles, even if they look rogue-like).
Queeny-poo? WTF?
We can kick the crap out of D'hara, pretty damn easily. Well done you horrible game and LORE destroying person you, Queeny-poo. The LORE of over 1 year of playing a very slow game overrides your years-long addiction to it. Most of our nobles haven't had any focus at all. Not one's that log-in, day-in, day-out.
!@#$, the Rangers would run a better Kingdom. All Hail "who was it? Bohdan? Nah. I think it's Lucini now!!!" Yay. Luria and stuff!
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What "old-hands"? I don't even recognize three quarters of the current lords and council of Luria. There are barely any real Lurians left!
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That's why Sha never hears anything. Well, she's not one of the old Lurians anyway. Maybe our High Commander is right......
Maybe she shouldn't go out of her way to piss him off, as well as any Duke that isn't currently her Leige.
Oh well. It's more fun, but less informative this way :)
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Idesbald definitely is not an old Lurian.
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My character isn't one of the old lurians (he's not even 30 years old). Did win the election for treasurer on the coin toss though.
Who would be an old Lurian? Alanna, Malus, Saul ?
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And if *this* war doesn't go well, he won't even be High Commander. It's somewhere in the rules of Luria. 3 horribly wasteful and pointless strikes and you're out. Kind of feel sorry for the next HC, but at least they'll lead their armies.
Idesbald's a pussy.
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My character isn't one of the old lurians (he's not even 30 years old). Did win the election for treasurer on the coin toss though.
Who would be an old Lurian? Alanna, Malus, Saul ?
Hrok, too... that's the only 4 I can name off the top of my head. But let's be honest, Alanna is the only REAL Lurian left ;)
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It's a beautiful thing. The *new* Lurian Empire. It sort of exists, other than that one blind queen we have, an imprisoned duke, another slightly mad SA ambassador and a pussy of a high commander (won't lead his troops to war until he gets called out by a minor noble from the bronx (or wherever Sha comes from. Mountainhome and that) whatever, like, you know?).
Gotta love Luria. Everyone doesn't necessarily have !@#$-tonnes of power, or even money, but you can bet your arse that our Marshals have more knowledge most of the time than the people that make the decisions. Just, because. That's a good thing. I LIKE our Marshals. Even our Judge. She doesn't say much. After that it gets all gets a bit hazy and wobbly.
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And with that attitude you wonder why you don't get involved?
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So be a real Lurian and rebel. It's tradition!
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My apologies for my "first person view and writing" occaisionally. I am well aware of these things that are called diplomacy. If anything, I've assisted with that more intra-realm and inter-realm than some have.
But what Luria Nova lacks is focus. For her troops, for her armies. To throw them a curve-ball at the last minute is a !@#$-act. We play this game, day-in day-out, just to be stuffed around by idiots that can't be bothered focusing the military, economic and strategic might of Luria against anything we can get a decent gain out of.
Falkirk? Yay. Took ages. Aurvendil? Still didn't get anything. Hell, half of the Vesperians went to the East Continent. Because they don't !@#$ around with war there. We're on a war footing. Which bits of Dwilight do we want?
Luria needs focus. It's not Luria Nova anymore. It's an Empire in all but name. Muck around, and you'll lose all the nobles that made her strong. And we're bleeding nobles with the leadership given already.
@Sacha. I took myself away from any chance of that earlier. There will be a fourth Lurian Empire. I know you know that. A real empire. :)
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Luria Nova didn't get anything out of Falkirk/Aurvandil because they were too busy threatening D'Hara during the war.
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Just as a cojoiner,
I am an Australian, and I am having a drink. My apologies if any of my "descriptive collqueilisms" (sp?) offend you. I will do my utmost to ensure that noble eyes such as your own will not be blighted by such utterances again.
Just kidding. I'll just try not to swear as much. It'll still probably be pretty eye destroying :)
Sambojin
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Luria Nova didn't get anything out of Falkirk/Aurvandil because they were too busy threatening D'Hara during the war.
If I were in Luria I would have pushed for the creation of a Lurio-Fissoan colony on Madina, or perhaps in Aurvandil. It would cause Fissoa to shift further towards LN, effectively creating an empire spanning the entire SW of Dwilight.
Oh well :) Don't mind to see Fissoa become a twin city realm, finally!
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Samboji, you can't play a character who acts like a yokel and expect to be treated the same as characters who act like high nobility.
You also can't attempt to intrigue against the General, get caught, and expect to be privy to all the preparations for war. Especially having first set up your character as a yokel.
I did, in fact, try to warn you about your RP style some time ago, but you seemed to feel it was more important to RP this particular style than to have a character who is respected and liked by the local nobility.
If you weren't so annoyed by the relatively obvious consequences of your actions, I would laud you for sticking to an unpopular RP style. As it is, you just look like you want to have your cake and eat it too.
Sha'shanti would have a much better time on most other continents, where consistent RP of any kind tends to be rewarded. (And she should totally get together with a Driscol somewhere and make a BattleMaster version of Clueless!)
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If I were in Luria I would have pushed for the creation of a Lurio-Fissoan colony on Madina, or perhaps in Aurvandil. It would cause Fissoa to shift further towards LN, effectively creating an empire spanning the entire SW of Dwilight.
That might have happened if there hadn't been all this other distracting stuff going on.
Oh well :) Don't mind to see Fissoa become a twin city realm, finally!
Congratulations. :)
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Luria Nova didn't get anything out of Falkirk/Aurvandil because they were too busy threatening D'Hara during the war.
We didn't want all that much, save Fissoa's neutrality in a possible Luri-D'Haran war.
If I were in Luria I would have pushed for the creation of a Lurio-Fissoan colony on Madina, or perhaps in Aurvandil. It would cause Fissoa to shift further towards LN, effectively creating an empire spanning the entire SW of Dwilight.
Oh well :) Don't mind to see Fissoa become a twin city realm, finally!
Eh, whatever. Alice and Selene are lovers, so it's basically an Empire in all but name.
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We didn't want all that much, save Fissoa's neutrality in a possible Luri-D'Haran war.
Something that isn't even guaranteed at this point. ;D
Eh, whatever. Alice and Selene are lovers, so its basically an Empire in all but name.
Selene doesn't appear to be taking a firm stance within Fissoa, and her position is somewhat unstable.
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Congratulations. :)
Thanks. It is the only real OOC ambition I've ever had in BM :)
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*snip*
!@#$, the Rangers would run a better Kingdom.
You're Lady Sha'shanti? Thanks for helping out with the quest/Lightbringer thing. I've got random adventures such as Terrance contacting me about it now.
...
...
...
If you find Luria Nova a little stuffy, come join Niselur, we could use more quirky characters. Plus the front to our war is two turns from the captial.
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Oh hey. Just got back from D.C. doing some work. Looks like Malus got arrested. What would be awesome is if someone tortures him and finds out he's the most innocent and boring character in the history of Dwilight intrigues. Let's do that!
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You're lucky message history only goes back 30 days :p
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You're lucky message history only goes back 30 days :p
Well, yeah. But as it pertains to D'Hara, innocent as a lamb. Malus was on his way to Terran to help. I've just had a few bouts of 2-3 idleness because of work and travel. And then up to Astrum and Niselur to protect Church assets in that developing !@#$storm. He was literally on official Church business.
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My apologies for my "first person view and writing" occaisionally. I am well aware of these things that are called diplomacy. If anything, I've assisted with that more intra-realm and inter-realm than some have.
But what Luria Nova lacks is focus. For her troops, for her armies. To throw them a curve-ball at the last minute is a !@#$-act. We play this game, day-in day-out, just to be stuffed around by idiots that can't be bothered focusing the military, economic and strategic might of Luria against anything we can get a decent gain out of.
Falkirk? Yay. Took ages. Aurvendil? Still didn't get anything. Hell, half of the Vesperians went to the East Continent. Because they don't !@#$ around with war there. We're on a war footing. Which bits of Dwilight do we want?
Luria needs focus. It's not Luria Nova anymore. It's an Empire in all but name. Muck around, and you'll lose all the nobles that made her strong. And we're bleeding nobles with the leadership given already.
@Sacha. I took myself away from any chance of that earlier. There will be a fourth Lurian Empire. I know you know that. A real empire. :)
I am outside of Luria, and I even knew it was pretty obvious that LN and Morek were going to war. Your Queen declared first, big deal. Morek made it pretty damn obvious that if Luria went to war with D'hara, they would be joining on D'hara's side (and vice versa, if d'hara did the aggression). So I have to agree with your fellow realm mates that if you want to piss off the leadership, you shouldn't really be mad that you don't get info.
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Yep, Morek was going to join the fight against Luria. I can safely say that Queen Alice is the lone reason that Swordfell has opted for neutrality (1 or 2 votes decided it), and I expect that the question of closed borders to both sides is also going to be hotly contested. Without her I expect that it would have been a landslide in committing to a war against you.
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I am outside of Luria, and I even knew it was pretty obvious that LN and Morek were going to war. Your Queen declared first, big deal. Morek made it pretty damn obvious that if Luria went to war with D'hara, they would be joining on D'hara's side (and vice versa, if d'hara did the aggression). So I have to agree with your fellow realm mates that if you want to piss off the leadership, you shouldn't really be mad that you don't get info.
RPs were shared with the entire realm, alongside some heated letters between Eviera and Alice. It's not like there was a lack of info hinting towards a Luri-Morekian war.
I expect that the question of closed borders to both sides is also going to be hotly contested.
Contested by Morek, maybe. Alice offered to bypass Swordfell, among other things, before Silas had the chance to say anything.
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RPs were shared with the entire realm, alongside some heated letters between Eviera and Alice. It's not like there was a lack of info hinting towards a Luri-Morekian war.
Well then, he literally has nothing to complain about.
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Eh, whatever. Alice and Selene are lovers, so it's basically an Empire in all but name.
That's what you think.
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Terrance
Screw that guy.
Love to hate Terrence.
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Screw that guy.
Love to hate Terrence.
Is he that bad? Ooops..... :)
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That's what you think.
Try us, I dare you.
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Because a war on three fronts is the last thing Luria needs.
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Contested by Morek, maybe. Alice offered to bypass Swordfell, among other things, before Silas had the chance to say anything.
Sorry, I meant the discussion within Swordfell itself concerning whether we will formally allow any troops movements. The fact that Alice has already made it clear that Luria won't trespass is just another reason why she's winning the PR war. I think the general feeling is that we don't really care for Luria Nova but we're all rather taken with the Queen ;)
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Because a war on three fronts is the last thing Luria needs.
Three fronts?
More like a possible two, and we've easily beaten said odds before.
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Honest to God, I had no idea Luria was going to war with Morek. This is pretty bold and clever on Arundel's part. I'm a step behind for the first time. Luria has the unifying force with a steel grip that I have sought for so long.
(http://cdn.meme.li/instances/400x/27065101.jpg)
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Honest to God, I had no idea Luria was going to war with Morek. This is pretty bold and clever on Arundel's part. I'm a step behind for the first time. Luria has the unifying force with a steel grip that I have sought for so long.
Now it's just a question of keeping the church together.
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Now it's just a question of keeping the church together.
While its already fighting each other.
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Now it's just a question of keeping the church together.
All we need now is for an anti-Prophet to rise somewhere!
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All we need now is for an anti-Prophet to rise somewhere!
ahueahaueheueheuahaueheuahuehueheuehue
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(http://cdn.meme.li/instances/400x/27065101.jpg)
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
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Suddenly Luria is even more interesting then before!
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It's about to get a lot more interesting!
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It's about to get a lot more interesting!
Will you declare your war already? You've been saying that for a while, now...
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If you were smart, you'd have starting a betting pool on when Luria will declare war. Can you guess the day? Will it be today? Tomorrow? A week? 2 weeks, 4 days? A month?
Of course, then Jonsu would be using her spies to mess with your betting pool and when war is actually declared. :P
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If you were smart, you'd have starting a betting pool on when Luria will declare war. Can you guess the day? Will it be today? Tomorrow? A week? 2 weeks, 4 days? A month?
Of course, then Jonsu would be using her spies to mess with your betting pool and when war is actually declared. :P
Hell yea. I'd get it declared so my man (or woman! or men! or women! or none of the above [like gornak! :p]) gets a payout and I get a cut. Naturally.
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Hell yea. I'd get it declared so my man (or woman! or men! or women! or none of the above [like gornak! :p]) gets a payout and I get a cut. Naturally.
And then we'd all know who it is. ;)
Sounds like a plan!
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And then we'd all know who it is. ;)
Sounds like a plan!
And then I'd arrange it so it lands on your day in the pool.
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Will you declare your war already? You've been saying that for a while, now...
Sorry, I had to go to war with Morek first. To think they wanted to help you guys out. Weird.
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You know why D'harans plant trees alongside their roads?
Lurian soldiers like to walk in the shade.
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They probably planted one for every time Luria's threatened to invade but didn't. Should be plenty of shade by the time it does happen!
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So she finally said she'd attack.
A pity shipyards don't actually work yet... Must be nice to attack a blind smaller enemy while your spies tell you all of their military details.
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Seems the fuse has been lit and the fireworks are ready to fly.
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So she finally said she'd attack.
A pity shipyards don't actually work yet... Must be nice to attack a blind smaller enemy while your spies tell you all of their military details.
Hrm, so you're saying provoking your bigger neighbor who you know has spies in your midst is a bad idea? Should probably run that by the House of Lords.
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Christ, you guys, stop flirting and just screw already.
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I think they heard you.
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Seems the fuse has been lit and the fireworks are ready to fly.
(http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs26/f/2008/116/c/1/Hell_Its_About_Time_by_BioHazaRd_Apocalypse.jpg)
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(http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs26/f/2008/116/c/1/Hell_Its_About_Time_by_BioHazaRd_Apocalypse.jpg)
The blatant grammatical error here is what really hurts me right now.
They probably planted one for every time Luria's threatened to invade but didn't. Should be plenty of shade by the time it does happen!
It took some time to make sure Fissoa, Corsanctum, Swordfell, Morek, the Farronite Republic, Terran, and Astrum couldn't/wouldn't intervene (in any significant way.) Good news is the wait is over.