BattleMaster Community
BattleMaster => Development => Feature Requests => Topic started by: House Talratheon on October 27, 2012, 07:00:42 PM
-
Title: Adventurer elevaton to Nobility adjustment
Summary: Increase difficulty of adventurer of becoming noble requiring 3 recommendations then King's (of his/her realm's) approval.
Details:
- Adventurer gains three recommendations.
- Adventurer gets option to petition King having his recommendations allowing King to see who signed and decide to elevation or deny until he/she so wishes
- If King denies him he can leave the realm or brown nose more, who cares he's just a commoner.
Benefits:
- Ensures King controls commoner to nobility appointments as stated in BM wiki -
Blood is everything. The idea of 'elevating' a mere commoner to a noble was disgusting to many, and this was an extremely rare act, reserved for people who had done tremendous service to the Crown.
- Creates a tiered system requiring a commoner to impress both Lords and King to gain ''elevation''
- Prevents or inhibits OOC fast tracking of commoners.
- Influences correct nobility to commoner interactions.
Possible Exploits: None come to mind
-
In Battlemaster, there is no creation of new nobility. Adventurers are "lost" or "unknown" members of noble families. They are not made into new nobles or the first member of a new noble family, they have simply managed to get their claim to membership in a noble house recognize.
Now, whether or not it is too easy or too hard to get an advy recognized as a noble is a separate issue. I don't really have any opinion there. I have had two advys, and neither managed to get more than 2 recommendations.
-
Need more data to decide, is it really too easy?
-
I'd say that if an adjustment is needed, that the colonies be left as they are--I think it took me a couple of years to gather 3 recommendations (in part due to nobles emigrating/deleting/dying).
-
I found it quite hard when I had an adventurer on BT... maybe it's just because I don't like the grinding nature of advies.
-
The king shouldn't have to individually review the petitions of adventurers. Seems a bit beneath his station, really. Isn't one of the reasons he has lords and knights is so they deal with the dirty masses and he only has to deal with the gilded gentle-born?
I too found it rather difficult and time consuming to make it to the nobility. Just barely not prohibitively so.
-
I might have been very lucky seeing your answers, but it took me around seven months to make a noble from my advy, and I was not exactly hunting monsters all the time. I just sought for rare items every day, and soon I managed to get the three items and recommendations. So is it too much easy? I don't think so. As I've said, I might have been just lucky there. But I also approve some way of controlling who becomes a noble and who doesn't. I would see very weird having Terrence's nobility recognised by D'Hara, for example.
Edit: This happened in Beluaterra, just prior to the last Invasion, so it might have affected my odds, I don't know. Though I have a friend with adventurers in Dwilight and Beluaterra, and despite him hunting every time he is able to he hasn't managed a single recommendation yet.
-
It depends on the culture of the realm you're in too. I know Westmoor and OG both have a long history of raising/recognizing advies as nobility. Hell, one even became Queen of OG for awhile. The CoH even recognizes the worth of Advies as Advies for they are the first line of defense for Humanity against the forces of Darkness.
Others? Others treat advies like !@#$. It's a shame, but makes sense from an IC standpoint.
-
I look at it from the explained process, nobles are to commoners as commoners are to donkeys. They are tools and barely considered people and for one of those to become a noble from non-royal recommendations. Even in modern interpretations you can get a dozen recommendations yet still not get the job you want or admittance to a school or organization because in the end it's only a recommendation to be shown to another for interpretation or acceptance.
Even considering the lowest of recommendations say a advie gets three recommendations from mere knights with borderline honor and prestige while noble it would be far more impressive to see an advie with three to five recommendations from mostly Lords and Dukes then reaches a King to be considered or spit upon and laughed about in court.
Not to mention I think a King should have a say in the process of a common born being elevated to peerage in his/her realm. Rather than pleasing three knights and suddenly popping up on a radar as a noble equal all of a sudden, it makes the claim sound questionable in any respect of medieval peerage. However for the Throne to emerge and beset a claim of nobility over a man/women is far more legitimate and unquestionable to the nobility of a Realm and could even be interpreted as being ''Knighted''.
-
I look at it from the explained process, nobles are to commoners as commoners are to donkeys. They are tools and barely considered people and for one of those to become a noble from non-royal recommendations. Even in modern interpretations you can get a dozen recommendations yet still not get the job you want or admittance to a school or organization because in the end it's only a recommendation to be shown to another for interpretation or acceptance.
Even considering the lowest of recommendations say a advie gets three recommendations from mere knights with borderline honor and prestige while noble it would be far more impressive to see an advie with three to five recommendations from mostly Lords and Dukes then reaches a King to be considered or spit upon and laughed about in court.
Not to mention I think a King should have a say in the process of a common born being elevated to peerage in his/her realm. Rather than pleasing three knights and suddenly popping up on a radar as a noble equal all of a sudden, it makes the claim sound questionable in any respect of medieval peerage. However for the Throne to emerge and beset a claim of nobility over a man/women is far more legitimate and unquestionable to the nobility of a Realm and could even be interpreted as being ''Knighted''.
So...the main part of your argument is invalid because this is not a commoner becoming a noble. This is a noble being rejected from the family, then after the recommendations the family is recognizing them as family, reinstating them into their noble lives.
-
So...the main part of your argument is invalid because this is not a commoner becoming a noble. This is a noble being rejected from the family, then after the recommendations the family is recognizing them as family, reinstating them into their noble lives.
To be re-instated they'd have to have been considered nobility in the first place, or even accepted as a member of bloodline which in most cases these were bastard children or children of denounced lines in which case is being a commoner. You were denied in name, and continued to be until you were of both use and proven to be of a bloodline even today there are common people who if were to research their ancestral lines could petition for recognition of a noble line. The Tudor line it self produced so many bastards it's predicted some still exist though the royal line is considered dead.
Adventurers are considered to fall into this category, and yet they are still commoners, a commoner with possible claim but commoner nonetheless.
As for me, I went from advie to noble very quickly, it seemed far too easy.
-
On point worth considering is that even the lowest of player controlled nobles are, as I understand it, still among the most influential nobles of the country. I would not discount their recommendations so easily. Much of what you say makes logical sense though. I just wonder if it makes the game better or more fun for players.
-
The ease of ennobling one's adventurer depends on the style of play one uses. It can be relatively easy, but is long for most people.
I kind of like this idea. Kings could grant noble status to people for their deeds, in the days. I like the feel of having the ruler need to grant this status of recognition.
-
To be re-instated they'd have to have been considered nobility in the first place, or even accepted as a member of bloodline which in most cases these were bastard children or children of denounced lines in which case is being a commoner. You were denied in name, and continued to be until you were of both use and proven to be of a bloodline even today there are common people who if were to research their ancestral lines could petition for recognition of a noble line. The Tudor line it self produced so many bastards it's predicted some still exist though the royal line is considered dead.
Adventurers are considered to fall into this category, and yet they are still commoners, a commoner with possible claim but commoner nonetheless.
Once an adventurer has acquired three recommendations and become a noble, they were always a noble and their nobility was simply recognized.
Before an adventurer has done this, they are nothing but a commoner and can never become a noble.
You have to be able to apply doublethink if you want to understand it. Medieval logic is not like modern logic.
(And no, this is not tongue-in-cheek; this is essentially the official RP explanation for the situation.)
-
As for me, I went from advie to noble very quickly, it seemed far too easy.
How long did it actually take you?
-
How long did it actually take you?
A mere decade. Enough time to brush my teeth in between. 8)
-
I remember I got some easy recommendations by repairing Unique Items. While I had an Advy for a long time and a long time back (Before equipment changes), I remember getting a recommendation from selling an Unique Item, then getting an Unique Item back to repair, which I sold to another Noble in another Realm for another recommendation. While it's pretty dangerous to do, you can get some recommendations pretty quick like that. But I guess it's a risk-reward thing.
-
I remember I got some easy recommendations by repairing Unique Items. While I had an Advy for a long time and a long time back (Before equipment changes), I remember getting a recommendation from selling an Unique Item, then getting an Unique Item back to repair, which I sold to another Noble in another Realm for another recommendation. While it's pretty dangerous to do, you can get some recommendations pretty quick like that. But I guess it's a risk-reward thing.
Hmm, I have adventurer on EC island previously and recently I have a new adventurer on Atamara island. To draw a comparison between islands and maybe the realms where my adventurers are at. Hope my feedback below help.
East Continent island
My character Brock started in Fontan realm. Repairing Unique Items and creating new Unique Items easily gain him enough Recommendations to rise up to become Noble. If I am not mistaken, at that time, only 2 or 3 Recommendations were required. He was beaten by Nobles to a pulp on the streets, thrown into his own realm prison. All for breaking Nobles Unique Items that he could not repair in time. Most of the time Items damage percentage was already very high. As he lacked one last Recommendation to become a Noble, he was helping other realm to repair an Unique Item. Unfortunately the other realm Unique Item also lost to damage time. Finally I had an idea to go and create another new Unique Item to replace the other realm Noble lost Unique Item.
Atamara island
My character Oak started in Minas Ithil realm. He still an adventurer today but with only one Recommendation for creating an Unique Item which he sold to MI realm. Although he has found many Unique Items, seems MI realm does not have gold to purchase them :D
And so he left MI to join Darka realm, the richest realm that can offer him gold and perhaps Recommendation :P
-
How long did it actually take you?
1-2 months definitely less than 3, fairly fast in the wide scope of things by selling and repairing unique items and that was delayed due to a noble not knowing how to give a recommendation.
-
1-2 months definitely less than 3, fairly fast in the wide scope of things by selling and repairing unique items and that was delayed due to a noble not knowing how to give a recommendation.
I once found three unique items in less than a month.
Then they were all stolen when I got caught in a monster prison on Beluaterra.
Then it took me six months to find another set of three... :-(
Overall, I would say it's not overly hard to find three uniques. It's long, and it's risky, but if you are prepared for that you can achieve it, and skill does not enter the equation much.
Whether you will get recommendations out of these three uniques is a completely different questions.
-
once upon a time when i played double advy... i can say that back when, doing it as a group (of 2 anyway) sped things up a lot - because you actually have the hours to do the later "lvl"s instead of having the hunts disappear on you at turn change or what not.
-
I'd change the feature request it so that a Lord needs to approve, not a King. You become a Knight after all, so the oath-swearing should be part of it.
-
I think the idea to have a Lord accept the commoner's oath to become nobility is a great piece of role-playing that wouldn't make it functionally more difficult to become a noble if that is one's goal. I've been playing an adventurer for a few months in-game and have a couple recommendations. I feel like the process right now depends a good deal on luck, and so will vary between players. However, I think the time and effort currently required is enough that it seems like a real achievement but not so much that it isn't worth trying.
-
a noble doesn't have to be a knight (noble with estate). you are changing class to a noble.