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BattleMaster => Helpline => Topic started by: OFaolain on April 08, 2014, 06:44:59 AM

Title: Empty duchies
Post by: OFaolain on April 08, 2014, 06:44:59 AM
So duchies can be empty under the mechanics (and empty duchies can be dissolved); how can a region be added to an empty duchy so the duchy is no longer empty?
Title: Re: Empty duchies
Post by: Eirikr on April 08, 2014, 07:14:18 AM
So duchies can be empty under the mechanics (and empty duchies can be dissolved); how can a region be added to an empty duchy so the duchy is no longer empty?

It can't. As I recall, this is by design.
Title: Re: Empty duchies
Post by: OFaolain on April 09, 2014, 02:36:32 AM
It can't. As I recall, this is by design.

What, really?  That's disappointing, I wanted to reinstall myself as landed Duke.  :(
Title: Re: Empty duchies
Post by: Velax on April 09, 2014, 02:51:27 AM
If you're a Duke of an empty Duchy, would doing a religious takeover add the region to your Duchy while making you the lord of it?
Title: Re: Empty duchies
Post by: Penchant on April 09, 2014, 02:53:25 AM
If you're a Duke of an empty Duchy, would doing a religious takeover add the region to your Duchy while making you the lord of it?
Probably.
Title: Re: Empty duchies
Post by: OFaolain on April 09, 2014, 03:13:48 AM
On a related note, if I am a Ruler and a Duke, what will happen if I click the "take estate" button in a lordless region of another (since my duchy is empty) duchy of my realm?
Title: Re: Empty duchies
Post by: Stabbity on April 09, 2014, 06:54:56 AM
On a related note, if I am a Ruler and a Duke, what will happen if I click the "take estate" button in a lordless region of another (since my duchy is empty) duchy of my realm?

Test it and find out, and report your findings.
Title: Re: Empty duchies
Post by: Eirikr on April 09, 2014, 07:35:55 AM
On a related note, if I am a Ruler and a Duke, what will happen if I click the "take estate" button in a lordless region of another (since my duchy is empty) duchy of my realm?

I can actually answer that, having done it myself: You cannot be simultaneously under and over someone in the hierarchy. Therefore, even if the land has no lord, it still belongs to the other Duchy and now the other Duke breaks your chain. You will be forced to abandon the estate on the turn change, if everything is working correctly.

Similarly, making yourself lord of that region (through elections, appointment, or other action) will have the same result, also removing you from the lordship.

There's no real harm in testing it, though, just to be sure it's still working properly.
Title: Re: Empty duchies
Post by: OFaolain on April 09, 2014, 02:27:32 PM
I can actually answer that, having done it myself: You cannot be simultaneously under and over someone in the hierarchy. Therefore, even if the land has no lord, it still belongs to the other Duchy and now the other Duke breaks your chain. You will be forced to abandon the estate on the turn change, if everything is working correctly.

Similarly, making yourself lord of that region (through elections, appointment, or other action) will have the same result, also removing you from the lordship.

There's no real harm in testing it, though, just to be sure it's still working properly.

What I may try and test if I can get the other player's cooperation (he just appointed himself lord since he didn't have a region) is to see if he can appoint me lord when I have an estate, and then see if I can take the region to my duchy.
Title: Re: Empty duchies
Post by: Indirik on April 09, 2014, 05:58:29 PM
You cannot be a duke with an estate, and not also be a region lord. There has to be an unbroken chain, top to bottom:

Liege > Vassal
-------------------------
Ruler > Duke > Lord > Estate

You cannot occupy two positions in that chain with someone else in between.  I.e. You can't be both someone's liege and vassal. If this situation happens, then it is a bug. It should be resolved by the cleanup script, by booting you from positions, starting from the bottom up, until the discrepancy is resolved.
Title: Re: Empty duchies
Post by: Chenier on April 10, 2014, 01:40:37 PM
Probably.

Getting elected to a region doesn't switch that region's duchy, so I wouldn't be surprised if RTOs didn't either.
Title: Re: Empty duchies
Post by: vonGenf on April 10, 2014, 02:25:38 PM
Getting elected to a region doesn't switch that region's duchy, so I wouldn't be surprised if RTOs didn't either.

But appointment does.

http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,3950.msg103172.html#msg103172
Title: Re: Empty duchies
Post by: OFaolain on April 11, 2014, 04:21:36 AM
Relatedly, I can't change allegiance of my empty duchy to another realm; there is one rural region left in the realm which is part of another duchy, but it will not allow me to change my duchy's allegiance, saying "You cannot change allegiance with the last city in the realm."
Title: Re: Empty duchies
Post by: ^ban^ on April 12, 2014, 09:29:26 PM
It is intentional that duchies cannot change allegiance if no cities exist in the rest of the realm.
Title: Re: Empty duchies
Post by: OFaolain on April 12, 2014, 09:39:29 PM
It is intentional that duchies cannot change allegiance if no cities exist in the rest of the realm.

Which is true for all duchies, including empty ones?  Thanks. :)
Title: Re: Empty duchies
Post by: ^ban^ on April 14, 2014, 06:28:10 AM
Which is true for all duchies, including empty ones?  Thanks. :)

Yup. We don't have any exceptions in place, and there hasn't been any discussion on if and why there should be.